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Immunox for Cedar Apple Rust?

Posted by glenn_russell 6b (My Page) on
Thu, Jun 19, 08 at 12:08

As some of you may have seen in my other posts, Im annoyed with Bonide for saying their general "fruit tree spray" helps control Cedar Apple Rust, when their main ingredients: Captan & Sevin do not. No wonder Ive had big CAR problems.

Ive spent some time calling Orchard Supply chemical companies looking for Ferbam, but no luck yet. What appeals to me about the Ferbam is that, from what Ive read here, Id only need 2 sprays of it, early in the season to control my CAR.

Although Ive searched online, I have not yet found an answer to my question: If I try Immunox next year, how many sprays am I likely going to need to do? Would it just be 2 sprays: 1 at pre-bloom, 1 at pedal fall like the Ferbam? Or is it like the Bonide that I need to spray every 7-10 days? Im hoping that I could just do a couple early sprays (dormant oil, dormant copper to help with CAR, 2 Immunox) and then not have to do much spraying for the rest of the season unless a new insect or disease problem occurs (I will probably also bag some of my apples still experimenting) In the past, Ive had problems with CAR, scab, fire blight, and flyspeck & sooty blotch. Also, a couple of aphids and Japanese beetles.

So, how many Immunox spray do you guys have to do? Does my plan for next year sound reasonable?

Thanks,
-Glenn


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: Immunox for Cedar Apple Rust?

Before planting fruit trees I cut down the cedar trees on my property. This season I am getting only a few leaf specks of CAR. I can't say whether Fruit tree spray is effective but I have read that Immunox is excellent at controlling CAR. So far negligible disease and insects and there has been lots of rain. Go figure.

Here is a link that might be useful: Cedar-Apple Rust


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RE: Immunox for Cedar Apple Rust?

TheAceOfSpades-
The junipers that I have on my property aren't the ones which are utilized by CAR. Unfortunately, I've read the CAR spores can travel from junipers 2-5 miles away! I do believe that Immunox would indeed be effective. But, I *may* also have a source on the Ferbam. If Immunox only required 2 sprays the like the Ferbam, I'd rather go with that (due to the legalities of Ferbam). But, if I need to spray the Immunox often, then I'll try for the Ferbam. Thanks, -Glenn


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RE: Immunox for Cedar Apple Rust?

So what's with the "legalities of Ferbam"? My apple trees are a mess this year from CAR, despite spraying with copper, and my neighbor's cedars are unfortunately the immediate source of the rust and she wants to keep the trees (evil thoughts enter my mind involving chainsaws and moonlit nights).

Virginia in Virginia


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RE: Immunox for Cedar Apple Rust?

Hi Virginia-
Probably the best thing to do would be to search this forum for "Ferbam". Basically, the EPA has made it unavailable for home orchard growers and only available to large orchards. -Glenn


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RE: Immunox for Cedar Apple Rust?

Nova40W from Syngenta is available without license. I use it for 600+ mayhaws. Flint is another but not sure if it's restricted.


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RE: Immunox for Cedar Apple Rust?

In my humble opinion, Immunox should work with 2 sprays, properly timed and applied. It is a systemic, therefore, subsequent rains between applications are not an issue as would be the case with protectant fungicides. Immunox is a "sterol inhibitor" fungicide, as such, the number of applications SHOULD BE LIMITED. In other words, don't just merrily spray all season long every 10-14 days unless you want to develop disease resistance. There is so little out there that is effective these days, you don't need to compound the problem by creating resistant strains. As for Ferbam, I seem to recall that it has a "warning" label which generically indicates the highest hazard. Furthermore, it may be illegal to use in residential areas. Check the label for one of the Ferbams at the link below. By all means, study up on the web and good luck.

Here is a link that might be useful: A FERBAM LABEL


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RE: Immunox for Cedar Apple Rust?

Michael357-
All good information. This is the first time someone has at least said to me "Immunox should work with 2 sprays". Right, I do understand disease resistance, and don't want to spray it any more than I need to. I'm doing my best to study up... which is how I found Immunox in the first place... I didn't see much on it here. Thanks again for the info! -Glenn


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RE: Immunox for Cedar Apple Rust?

Thanks Glen, Now frustration is setting in haha.
Immunox seems to be my best chance, now I have to find a local store that sells it. Lowes carried it for awhile but not anymore. I hate to buy online with all the S/H fees but it is my last resort.
I have never seen a "gall" on my cedar hedge row but I will look more closely. Checking ever tree within a 1/8 mile would only confirm to my neighbors that Im nuts. The picture of the gall looks very much like what I thought was a seed pod on my Kausa dogwood.


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RE: Immunox for Cedar Apple Rust?

Hi Gary-
Here's another thread where we were discussing Immunox

Again, I'm not an expert here. But instead, I'm just passing on where I'm at in my research so you can verify the info and then start from there (instead of starting from scratch)

Be careful to get regular "Immunox" and not "Immunox Plus" which also contains an insecticide and is not rated for fruit trees. After looking around quite a bit, I wound up getting it online. Others were able to find it locally.
Actually, the CAR info that I've read have said that the spores can travel upwards of 3 miles. Eeek.

If you could, after next years harvest, report back to these threads (or just this forum) on how you made out with the Immunox. My hope is that if the Immunox does work, we could recommend it as alternative to the hard-to-obtain Ferbam.
Good luck,
-Glenn


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RE: Immunox for Cedar Apple Rust?

Glen:
Better late than never? My unsprayed Freedom tree that was hammered last year w/CAR did MUCH better this year with the Immunox sprays. I used immunox + captan (systemic & protectant) during flowering. Then I switched to 3336F + captan for the 3rd and final sprays. My plan was to apply only 3 total, but I got a late start and needed to do a 5 day followup on the immunox rather than 10 days.
The tree showed some CAR spots, but very few and they never looked as developed as last year. I suspect they showed up because my 1st spray didn't happen until early full bloom. Never said I was perfect.


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RE: Immunox for Cedar Apple Rust?

After loosing all my apples to CAR last year, I have followed this thread and I am trying Immunox this year. I have sprayed this past weekend (my trees were in first bloom) and plan on spraying again this weekend. This post mentioned spraying only twice, maximum three times with Immunox, then using a protectant fungicide so as not to develop disease resistance. Am I understanding this correctly? If so, any recommendations on what protectant fungicide I should spray to continue the fight against CAR? Should I continue to spray weekly until end of May?

Also, could someone in Northern Virginia share their complete spraying schedule with me? I am sure that it would help me cut through some guesswork as to the most common diseases and pests that are around here. And please be specific as to how many weeks between each spray, spray type, etc.
thanks very much,
Jan


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RE: Immunox for Cedar Apple Rust?

Here in NY the concern in the literature is always with scab developing resistance with most fungicides. For instance, although CAR is one of our pests, I've never heard about resisatance problems developing with myclobutanil- that may be just ignorance but I read quite a bit of literature on fruit growing.

Mancozeb would be an appropriate fungicide to mix if you were worried about resistance although this is a much less potential problem when you only have a few trees in my opinion and experience.


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RE: Immunox for Cedar Apple Rust?

Hi Jan-
Keep track of when you sprayed, how much you sprayed, and how your apples did (as compared to previous years) and let us know! Thanks!
-Glenn


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RE: Immunox for Cedar Apple Rust?

I'm also using Immunox this year after bad CAR last year. Due to early warm temperatures, I sprayed in early March, again in late March and once about a week ago. I plan to spray at least one more time as my apples are in bloom now. As to the target fungi developing immunity to this or any fungicide, I suspect it will happen. However, if an analogy with medical practice is appropriate, beating it (CAR) down as completely as possible may be the best course. Your physician will tell you to complete the entire regimen of whatever antibiotic he prescribes, even if you feel "well". I am not advocating overuse of any chemicals, but under application can also be a problem. These things are never simple, are they?

I'll be trying to find appropriate follow-ups to the Immunox. I really hate spraying for anything, and try to wait until I see a problem before hitting everything with insecticides, for instance. Last year, over about a two day period in August, every one of my apple trees was stripped of leaves. I never saw the insect that did it. Whatever it was worked at night, and also hit our roses and a bit on the Carpathian walnuts. At the time I thought maybe Japanese beetles, but I never saw them! So....what to do, what to do.....spray of course! Aaaarrrggghhh.

Chuck


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RE: Immunox for Cedar Apple Rust?

I have used Immunox the last 2 years on my apples. The first year i planted (2006) i had CAR so i researched some at the store and found Immunox was good for that, so i bought some and the following 2 years sprayed during May...

Question: Is it necessary to spray before leaf out? I always sprayed after and haven't had any issues, although i'm a total rookie and have little clue what i'm doing when it comes to these things!


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RE: Immunox for Cedar Apple Rust?

If I were to use Mancozeb to prevent resistance to Immunox .... when you say "mix" Mancozeb, do you mean literally mix it with the Immunox, or spray it instead of the Immunox, or following the Immunox spray? How long should I continue to spray with the Immunox? Till the cedar galls dry up?

Also, what disease/pests should I be looking to spray for next? When I moved into my home, I had apples. The next year, I sprayed nothing, and lost everything to CAR. I don't know what the previous owners sprayed, so I am starting from scratch. I am trying to stay as organic as possible.


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RE: Immunox for Cedar Apple Rust?

I mean both in the tank mix, but either approach would slow resistance. Is Immunox myclobutinal? If it is I seriously doubt you'd ever need more than 3 applications to completely control it anywhere. Given it's life cycle I'm guessing the infection period length is about the same everywhere it's a pest.

As I've stated multiple times here, I get good control of CAR with a petal fall and 10 to 14 days later applications. If I'm putting down oil, I include it in that spray and get absolute control in that case (not a spot). I tank mix with Captan only during petal fall and post sprays so I'm not protecting against resistance for CAR, only scab and yet I haven't had resistance problems in the scores of sites where this has been my program for 18 years.


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RE: Immunox for Cedar Apple Rust?

Yes, Immunox is Myclobutanil, like Nova, Eagle, etc. -Glenn


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RE: Immunox for Cedar Apple Rust?

Hi Jan: Here's a real fly in the oinment to consider. The CAR galls won't release their spores until they have been wetted for a minimum period of time and the temperatures are warm enough, I can't say what those values are. I have seen them once get wetted for about 6 hours, start to "sprout", then the weather dries out and their development ceases. Are those galls done for the year or will they continue given the right environment? I don't know. I do know that in my location, we can get rain for hours just a mile north of my trees but everything to the south stays dry for weeks on end. The gall spores can travel for more than a mile easily and infect trees. See the problem?

One note about Mancozeb. There are forms of it that are labeled (legal) for use on apples and others that are not. I got my cart in front of the horse a couple of years ago and now have one that is not legal on apples; there is at least one Manzate formulation that is, I believe their are others. Read the labels thoroughly before you buy, if it doesn't state the plant you're intending it for don't get it.


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RE: Immunox for Cedar Apple Rust?

I keep reading references to Nova as a good alternative to ferbam but cannot find a source. If anyone knows where it can be purchased in backyard orchard quantities please post a link.


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RE: Immunox for Cedar Apple Rust?

As Glenn mentions above, get Immunox or Eagle instead of Nova. Nova has in fact been recently renamed to Rally so you may be able to find that as well, but it is a commercial version so a large quantity would need to be purchased.

Scott


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RE: Immunox for Cedar Apple Rust?

Harvestman,

Dumb question: What oil are you spraying after petal drop with the Immunox? I've never used dormant oil....is that it? I really like the sound of "not a spot", particularly if it is produced by using a benign adduct.

Chuck


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RE: Immunox for Cedar Apple Rust?

Add my dumb question to Chucks "dumb question" above, Is there a difference between dormant oil and summer oil?
I have a few trees and buy at stuff at the big orange box.

I bought the Immunox, should I add oil before spraying? Can I addd Malithion with the Immunox at the same time?
Thank you


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RE: Immunox for Cedar Apple Rust?

I recently bought a home in Maryland and thought I had lovely fruit and dogwood trees in March. However, now in June those same trees are blight infected. The fruit trees appear to have alternaria blotch and the dogwoods may have anthracnose. Most of the trees blossomed, but the leaves are now spotted and turning yellow.
Will the Immunox work on all the trees? If so, how much is needed per tree and can I apply the fungicide myself? I cannot imagine how costly it would be to hire this out!!!
I appreciate any help anyone has to offer.

Jansu


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RE: Immunox for Cedar Apple Rust?

Like previously mentioned, NOVA is now RALLY. I could only find it in one place here in North Carolina (Southern Ag Supply in Boone, NC). I had to buy a pouch that contained 5 "each" packets. It was $78. This stuff came highly recommended by my local nursery fella who has been using it for years on his orchard of 1000+ trees. I used it for the first time this year on my 21 trees and had nary a spot of it. Last year was really bad.

I was told that I can store it indefinitely if kept dry at room temperature. The amount I bought will probably last 15 years at least. I mix it at a rate of 1/4 teaspoon per gallon water (which is a little heavy, 1/8 to 1/4 tsp. is about right) or 3/4 teaspoon to fill my backpack sprayer.

~thomis


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RE: Immunox for Cedar Apple Rust?

The only oil I ever use, even at 1/2 inch green is in the category of summer oils. Purespray is one of them and maybe the best but any spray intended for use on trees out of dormancy should do (Dramm oil is one)- just don't do it when temps get into the 90's. Not sure where the cutoff point is but oils can be tricky.


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