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primocane fruiting black raspberry - Jewel

Posted by matt_ohio 5b/6a (My Page) on
Tue, Jun 16, 09 at 14:10

Several years ago I bought some Jewel black raspberry. They have always been floricane fruiting. This year I noticed for the first time that one primocane has flowers on it(the four others don't have flowers). Would it be possible to collect seeds or tip layer to propagate the floricane fruiting trait.


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: primocane fruiting black raspberry - Jewel

You could but I would think if it was a primocane fruiting black raspberry (which would be a fall bearing crop) it wouldn't be flowering right now. They flower in late summer for a fall crop. Are you sure the part that is flowering isn't a fruiting vine off the base of the floricane? Maybe it looks like a primocane if its at the base of the floricane??? Just a thought.

If the fruiting part you think is primocane dies off after fruiting then you'll now it was actually a floricane that produced the fruit.


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primocane black raspberry

If you google explorer black raspberry (a primocane fruiting black raspberry) you will see they ripen in September and into October. Yours are flowering the same time as the floricane black raspberry which makes me think thats what it is.


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RE: primocane fruiting black raspberry - Jewel

Hi Tyler - I'm not sure that ripening date is correct. I too have Jewel black raspberries in a similar growing zone. I'm not sure exactly when they ripen, but Sept/Oct doesn't sound right. I believe they ripen before my reds, but I've always had small harvests in the past (due to them being in a poor location previously). Mine now have well formed berries which makes me think that harvest shouldn't be more than a few weeks away.

Matt - Forgive me if this question is trivial. But, are you sure that it's really the primocane which has the flowers? And not the new growth (lateral) attached to a floricane? The later would be normal. And, if your bed is anything like mine, the new growth laterals are so long, and so tangled with the other canes, that it could easily be mistaken for a new lateral.

I actually wasn't aware that there was even such a thing as a primocane black raspberry until this post. The only varieties that I can find are experimental: "Explorer" and "PT-2A4". See link below.

-Glenn

Here is a link that might be useful: PT-2A4 Black Raspberry


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RE: primocane fruiting black raspberry - Jewel

I've had Jewel black raspberries for at least 10 years; some berries are just now showing red; have always been floricane fruiting; tip rooting is easily done.


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RE: primocane fruiting black raspberry - Jewel

Yes, if you have a primocane bearing mutation, which is possible, although in your zone I'd be surprised it would flower now, you can expect plants propigated from its tissue (tip layering would be fine) to sustain that mutation.


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RE: primocane fruiting black raspberry - Jewel

Hi Glenn...
No what I meant was if it was in fact a primocane fruiting black raspberry it wouldn't be flowering until late august with a Sept/Oct harvest. His is flowering now in June which means its most likely a floricane.


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RE: primocane fruiting black raspberry - Jewel

Hi Tyler-
Ahhh, I see what you mean. Thx.

So Matt-
Are you still confident that it's a primocane which is fruiting? If so, get propagating!
-Glenn


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RE: primocane fruiting black raspberry - Jewel

I don't think it is anymore.

The 3-4 week delay in flowering deceived me.

I also emailed Pete Tallman(the owner of Explorer and PT-
2A4. Here is his explanation.

Hi Matt,
Dr. Jim Ballington, retired breeder at North Carolina State University, said a long time ago that Jewel is known to occasionally produce a fruiting primocane in some of the southern states. However, Jewel is a long way from being reliably primocane fruiting. I would want primocane fruiting on every healthy primocane in every year. (In 2007, I had enough heat here to poduce one fruiting primocane on Jewel, and in 2008 I had one on a MacBlack.)
It could also be that what you are seeing is a "crown lateral", which is a fruiting lateral that is originating from the crown area instead of a floricane or else very low down on a floricane. (Terminology is from H. K. Hall, a breeder in New Zealand.) A crown lateral can occur on any black raspberry variety if the floricane is mowed down or injured in the spring. The differentiation between crown lateral and fruiting primocane can be difficult with 100% certainty until the following winter, when a crown lateral dies and a primocane survives to the next spring as a floricane. I've been fooled on more than one occasion. I suppose there could be an easy way to tell in the summer, but I haven't found one yet.
Unless you are in the really deep south with a much earlier season than what I'm used to, then, based on the flowering schedule, I'm thinking that what you are seeing may well be a crown lateral. The flowering schedule for crown lateral is is several weeks later than a floricane and several weeks earlier than a primocane. My own primocane flower buds are not expected to start forming for a few more weeks.
My advice is just enjoy the berries when they come in.
This answer may be of interest to our NAFEX chat reflector. Do you mind if I publish your name with the question?
Pete Tallman
Longmont, CO zone 5 or so


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RE: primocane fruiting black raspberry - Jewel

Very interesting. Thanks for sharing Matt! -Glenn


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RE: primocane fruiting black raspberry - Jewel

btw for anyone interested on Pete's website he is offering open pollinated seeds of his 'Explorer' primocane black raspberry in exchange for postage. Apparently it proved not to be self fertile and needed outside pollination but it looks like fall-bearing red raspberries will pollinate them. I'm expecting some any day now.

Here is a link that might be useful: Explorer Black Raspberry


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RE: primocane fruiting black raspberry - Jewel

One of the pluses for Explorer according to the patent was smaller thorns and fewer thorns around the berries. I see that SCRI also have some thornless of black and purple raspberry varieties, if only they would sell them across the pond. I would love to try Glencoe.


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