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| I've been spraying with Surround for the first time this year and have been wondering if I'm doing it most effectively. Should I attempt to spray just the fruit, include the branches, or both plus the leaves? I've seen some voice the concern that covering the leaves will hurt photosynthesis. But, I've also seen papers which say it helps, by reducing the temperature and the water loss from the leaves. But, how strong the light is could have a big impact. In the above paper, it mentioned that grapefruit only need 700 PPF (umol/m2/s, how many moles (a very big number) of photons per square meter in a second), while the mid-day Florida sun was providing 1900 PPF. Now, it also noted that deciduous leaves need more, and the sun it probably stronger in Florida, than here, due to the higher angle. Photosynthesis aside, I thought part of the reason to use Surround was to create a white-out, a foreign environment that the insects wouldn't recognize. Each time, I've been applying around 10 gallons to my yard, mixed at roughly the max concentration. But, it is a lot of work to keep mixing this stuff up, so if I am wasting my time by coating the leaves, I would be happy to ease up. Here's an example of what I've been trying to get. This is a Tomcot apricot. Some of the smoother fruits, plums in particular don't seem to take the coat as well. They just bead up, while the peaches and apricots get nicely coated. |
Follow-Up Postings:
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- Posted by scottfsmith 6B-7A-MD (My Page) on Tue, Jun 10, 14 at 9:02
| Thats a lot thicker than I put on. Remember the goal is not to coat all the surfaces, its to have enough powder that some is flaking off on the bug whatever way he walks. Bugs don't walk on leaves much at all so there is no reason to target leaves. Fruit are the most important to coat, and shoots around the fruits after that. At this point in the season I have eased up on the concentration - my main target pest now is stinkbugs and I just want to slow their movements down. The curc is pretty much finished at this point. Scott |
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| I also wanted to add the remark about the metal rusting out. I live in area that gets about 17-20 inches of rain per year. I have 18ga steel containers and soil supports and raised beds made of this. They are going on 18 years and are still good. If I were in Houston they would only last about 5 years. I believe in western Kansas you will not have to worry about rust for at least a decade. |
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| Sorry, I accidentally posted this in the wrong thread and am trying with no success to delete it. |
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| If you would like to remove, or amend the content of the post, just click on the EDIT box (only you can see an edit box on your posts) and just "erase" all the text, replacing it with something like "deleted" and you are done. Only an administrator can go in and delete an entire post (or thread) as if it never existed. But a forum member can amend something in a post that was created by that forum member. |
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| Bob, Thank you very much for posting. I just sprayed Surround for the first time, too, and wonder about its effect on the whole tree. Scott - thank you very much for your response. I found it hard to spray the fruit when they were tiny. Now, it's easier. Where you are, how many sprays do you need for peach and plum in a season, please? |
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- Posted by windfall_rob vt4 (My Page) on Tue, Jun 10, 14 at 14:06
| i try to hit the whole tree with the first coat or two just to make the location as unattractive the pc as possible after that i focus on the fruit, renewing coverage after severe rain or as fruitlest expand and thin my intial coats. that is very heavy coverage, no harm i think but wasted product and time. sometimes spaying your first coat at a lower mix rate seems to help disperse it more evenly on fruits that it beads on. also using as fine a mist setting as possible. the fine mist is slow going, but after it dries the surface texture/tension of the fruit is much more conducive to letting the next coats hold without beading, and then you can lay it on thicker |
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- Posted by scottfsmith 6B-7A-MD (My Page) on Tue, Jun 10, 14 at 21:06
| Right Rob, no harm. In fact I probably should have mentioned what IS important is to get all sides, I recall finding the curc sitting on the side I missed when I didn't get all sides. So, you don't have to get the fruit all white, just minimize the number of totally open areas with no coverage. Mamuang, the number of sprays is based on what you are trying to control. I am finished controlling for curculio and it looks like I did 2+ sprays this spring for the curc (the + was a touch up, only on the missed areas as the previous spray I did at night with a headlight). I used to need more but I have learned e.g. if its cold after rain that I can hold off since the curc is not so active in the cold. I recently did a dilute Surround spray on the peaches for the stinkbugs, I am getting some damage. Spinosad was included in all sprays for OFM control. Scott |
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| Thanks, Scott. I have both PC and OFM. I should starting taking note on how many life cycles of PC and OFM in my area. I thought Surround alone would be able to deter OFM. Look like I'll have to look for Spinosad, too. I don't see stinkbugs or their damages yet. Pretty sure we have them around. |
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| Rob, next year I'll try the first coat at a fine mist- thanks for the idea. Thanks Scott. I did notice that I had a bit of a problem getting all sides of each fruit. Some of my trees are up against a wall, so it isn't that easy to get on the other side, at least while spraying (without getting truly covered). How long would I need to keep spraying for in order to protect from OFM? I probably have it, as I've seen the flagging peach branches. My understanding was that Surround can be pretty tough to wash off peaches and apricots (fuzzies). My first of both should be arriving in just under a month (knocks on wood), as both Tomcot and PF1 were ready around July 4th last year. Of the 2 Tomcot was far better, so I've started grafting over the PF1 with a few later peaches and a nectarine. |
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- Posted by windfall_rob vt4 (My Page) on Wed, Jun 11, 14 at 8:09
| Surround alone has been pretty useless for ofm controll for me. The cornell NEWA website is incredibly useful in predicting pest and disease pressure for those of us too lazy to get a weather station and. Do the degree day calculations. Using it along with local weather forecasts I have been able to reduce the number of sprays I lay down AND increase their effectiveness. |
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| If you are in or around Pennsylvania's growing season, the Penn State Fruit Times email is really a great resource. They are targeting the big apple orchards down towards Harrisburg I think but their advice on spray timings have been good. I wish I had listened about their fireblight danger and spray advice. See link below. |
Here is a link that might be useful: Fruit Times signup
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| Windfall_rob Thank you for your suggestion. I'll check it out. Sharppa - thank you. I'm in central MA. I try to grow my fruit organically whenver I can. |
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- Posted by swampsnaggs 5b (My Page) on Wed, Jun 11, 14 at 16:02
| What type of sprayer can be used with surround? Can I use my Hypro 5330C piston pump? |
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