I strongly suggest you join NAFEX where there is a lot of discussion of fruit breeding and some pedigreed participants who have done or do such work professionally.

I actually recommend anyone who is strongly interested in fruit plants to join this orginization or at least participate in their web site.

Thanks, harvestman - I will join now.

Sounds good.

I can address a few of these. Many of the Vaccinium species will cross easily, but usually only if they have the same number of chromosomes-there are 2x, 4x, and 6x types. The 2x x 4x crosses rarely work, but 4x x 6x crosses usually do work although the hybrids typically have low fertility. A good example is highbush blueberry x rabbiteye. Deerberry will cross readily with lingonberry and maybe cranberry, but less likely with the other Vaccinium species. Bilberries cross easily with lingonberries in the wild, but the hybrids are usually sterile. V. ovatum will possibly cross with bilberry, but not highbush blueberry. The true huckleberries will not cross with Vaccinium.

Native and European gooseberries cross easily and American black currant will cross with European black currant. The native northern persimmon has been crossed with kaki persimmon (both hexaploid), but with great difficulty. The more common southern race is tetraploid.

Some of these crosses will yield hybrids that are sterile or low in fertility. The gooseberry, mountain ash, and crabapples should produce fertile hybrids easily, and some of the Vaccinium species will cross easily producing fertile hybrids, such as augustifolia x corymbosum. The southern highbush and northern highbush blueberries are totally cross compatible.

You will probably not get good answers from NAFEXers about many of these crosses (but you should still join). If you can find the three volume Fruit Breeding series, edited by Jules Janick and James N. Moore, you should be able to get answers to most of these questions. These are very expensive books so try borrowing them through a library. You can also get a good portion through Google books. The link below is for Vol 2, vines and small fruits. Vol 3 covers the nuts. Vol 1 covers tree and tropical fruits.

~kiwinut

Here is a link that might be useful: Fruit Breeding Vol 2 preview

Very impressive KN, but why are you confident that none of the NAFEX membership would have useful input on these crosses? Over the years I have often read such matters discussed in fairly technical detail by members- this kind of thing was the original focus of NAFEX. I have met professional plant breeders with doctorates at NAFEX annual meetings. Certainly I have read a far more detailed discussions of attempts and controversial successes of cross breeding Kakis with American natives then what you've posted here. Not meant as a challenge, I'm just curious (and a fan of NAFEX).

Harvestman:

You may have read or heard some fine technical discussions on fruit breeding from NAFEX members, but you have to admit that what Kiwinut conveyed in his brief summary is pretty good for the Fruits and Orchards Forum. What do you want him to do, write a book?

I was a NAFEX member for many years, beginning in 1980, but now rarely participate on that list. I have watched the content of their list change over the years, and now find it mostly subjects of little interest to me that go on forever, with the messages becoming larger each time with quotes of all the others. Many of the NAFEX old-timers are rarely seen there any more. I find this forum to be a better source of practical advice for the backyard orchardist, with excellent back-and-forth discussion of great civility. I also like the format of this forum better than a list for several reasons. I don't want to discourage anyone who wants to join NAFEX from doing so, but don't expect miracles.

NJBiology tends to pose questions calling for technical or theoretical knowledge that is beyond the scope of most of us here (Kiwinut being an exception). These questions are proper subjects for research. His research. As a biology student, which I believe he is, that ought to come naturally.

Don Yellman, Great Falls, VA

Don, that is an interesting take. I said I was impressed by Kiwinuts knowledge and was not criticizing his input in any way. I was just curious about his brief descrption of NAFEX which contradicts my own experience. Your NAFEX experience is also completely at odds with mine which doesn't surprise me. We usually view things from a much different angle even when we agree, but viva la difference.

I don't see any reason not to participate with both sites and I learn probably just as much both places- they are not in competition in my mind. Both sites have people obsessed with fruit plants but there I find more people with experience I'm unfamiliar with because they tend to be older with the knowledge coming from that additional experience.

Hi guys,

Hate to be in the middle, so I'll say this: thanks Kiwinut for the excellent information. And thanks Harvestman and Don - I respect both of the reviews and it probably, without knowing NFEX, is that the organization is useful and seconldy, it probably is that there was a time where it was much more useful - so a balance between both positions is likely, both being largely valid. I love gardenweb - probably will get most of my conversations and information from here, out of all other sources - you guys, Lucky, Scott, not to leave out many others - a lot of highly experienced, knowledgeable, intelligent, and most of all, generous (to share their knowledge and time) on this site. I intend to join some other venues (including NFEX) and see what contacts and discussions I can work-out there too.

Again, very impressive Kiwinut - as always.