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Persimmon.... Not really growing

Posted by scotkight northern virginia (My Page) on
Wed, Jul 4, 07 at 10:56

Purchased a new (and my first) ichi ki jiro persimmon late last fall and planted the dormant tree. This spring it perked up and started growing, put out a few branches and then some leaves. Total height is now about 1.5', with a total upward growth of ~4". All that started in march. Since then, absolutely nothing.

That seem normal? The leaves are not the prettiest. In fact they are all kinda nasty looking around the edges but they are large and the centers are green.

No pests at all that I can see.

I can try to post a picture later if that would help.


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: Persimmon.... Not really growing

That sounds like my fuyu persimmon. The first year after I planted it, it put out a few leaves in the spring and stopped. This year, it put out 3 or 4 times as many leaves, but then stopped. It actually looks healthy now, but I'm convinced it is a slow grower. These trees get very big, but I didn't realize how long it takes.


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RE: Persimmon.... Not really growing

Mine is similar. I have noticed that it seems to grow during the cooler weather of spring and it has pushed a couple new leaves (eaten recently by psylla) when the weather has remained cool but wet.

~Chills


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RE: Persimmon.... Not really growing

Miracle Grow.

My neighbors persimmon was doing the same thing so he started using Miracle grow and his persimmons have taken off.

His persimmons were more like 4ft whips this spring and he's had them in the ground for a year. He started with Miracle Grow back in early May, and they've put branches and have grown a couple feet in height. They're still growing.


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RE: Persimmon.... Not really growing

i planted a fuyu in dec, & a jiro, ichi kei ki jiro, & hichaya in may.

fuyu has grown mabe 18". others are just sitting there. ichi's leaves are kinda ugly but green.

maybe time for miracle grow.


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RE: Persimmon.... Not really growing

I have a Hachiya persimmon tree, and it took a long time to bear fruit. (7 years, I think!) Last year it had a couple of fruits that fell off, but this year it looks really great...and has lots of fruit for the first time.
It helped mine to keep it weeded and to trim off the suckers. Also, mine likes compost tea.
Good luck,
Stephenie


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RE: Persimmon.... Not really growing

I have been trying to grow Fuyu persimmon for past two years. In spring tree grows well but soon as temperature reach 100+ plus with dry humidity, tree start loosing the leaves and by end of August both tress are dead. Trees were planted in full sun and shade is not available. Anyone growing persimmon successfully in similar climate? BTW during hot month I watered two or three times a week, depending on soil dampness. My gut feeling is tree does not like the hot & dry climate without some after noon shade.


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RE: Persimmon.... Not really growing

alpine, it does sound like the heat may be too much for a young tree. You may want to erect a shade barrier of some sort if you try again. Hopefully once the tree has survived a year or two it will have enough internal energy to get through the heat without the shade.. In terms of water you should water when the soil is dry on top, but moist an inch or so down.

Scott


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RE: Persimmon.... Not really growing

This is the 3rd or 4th year here. The first few years, it would blossom and they would then fall off. Last year, it had one fruit that did the same.

I was so overjoyed this year, as it put out quite a few blossoms, which also fruited, then all but one dropped off. I am still watching the remaining - very large persimmon left. Will it go on to ripen, suffer the same fate as the others - or ???

Incidentally, the tree itself is very handsome, so in any case, I will give it a couple more years - then ???

Miracle Grow eh?

Just my 2 c's.

Bejay


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RE: Persimmon.... Not really growing

Scotkight:

I put in 3 Asian persimmon trees (Eureka, Hachiya, Fuyu) this past spring. They arrived bareroot from Womack Nursery, DeLeon, TX in mid-March, 2007. They were healthy looking grafted bareroots, but sat there like dead sticks for fully six weeks, and I began to think they were dead.

Far from it. In June they began to grow, and all of them have put on at least 4 branches each, the largest about 4 feet long, plus a 3-footer and several that are shorter. They have grown continuously all summer long, in spite of an extended drought and a relatively hot summer here (though nothing over 100 degrees). Leaves are all large, healthy, and shiny dark green, with only a few nips from one or another insect. No sign of persimmon psylla that I can detect.

All 3 of these trees were planted in deep soil that had been previously occupied by other trees that were removed. I have deep-watered them only 2-3 times over the entire summer. Only time will tell whether they will winter over well here, and resume their healthy growth next season. I think they will.

Was your Ichi-Ki-Jiro a container specimen from Edible Landscaping? If so, this will add to my fairly firm opinion that bareroot trees perform better than those in containers. That has certainly been my experience with other species.

If your Northern Virginia location is anywhere close to Great Falls, you are welcome to come over and take a look at my trees. Just e-mail me off-list for an address. I never believed I could grow Asian persimmons here until I saw a nice compact tree laden with fruit down in the Falls Church area. I expect these trees to top out at about 10-12 feet max with minimal pruning. I have already begun to spread the branches. They are far and away the prettiest little trees in my orchard.

Don Yellman, Great Falls, VA


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RE: Persimmon.... Not really growing

  • Posted by estreya Southwest Washington (My Page) on
    Wed, Oct 17, 07 at 18:22

This thread is making me want a persimmon tree all the more. Do post pictures if you've got them! :)


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RE: Persimmon.... Not really growing

I talked with locally well-known nursery manager about my persimmon problem. He said I did not need to amend the soil, decomposed granite is just fine but cover the ground with mulch to save the water from evaporation. I will give a one more try again this December, perhaps three times is the charm


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RE: Persimmon.... Not really growing

I planted a Fuyu persimmon tree last year from Ison that grew 3-4 feet last year and another 2-3 feet this year. I also planted a Tanenashi that never leafed out. :^( Before planting, I amended the soil with compost and manure. Then I added ~1-2 pounds of 13-13-13 fertilizer each month from April to July. I watered the tree depending on the weather. Last August when we had 29 consecutive 100 degree or hotter days, I watered every other day. I also had about 3-6 inches of mulch out about 3 feet from the tree. The persimmon grew very well during the hot weather so I don't think hot weather is a problem.


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RE: Persimmon.... Not really growing

I really feel the problem with some persimmon's not doing well is a nutrition/watering issue.

Jellyman planted his trees in place of other trees taken out and they are doing well. I've seen his soil and it ain't your average soil. He's soil was so rich, it was like pure compost with worms everywhere.

Look at sshuang's post. He said he had 29 consecutive 100 deg days and his trees did good. Look more carefully and you see that he's amended his soil, fertilized and watered.

My post from back in July also talks has to do with fetilizer and water. Dang Miracle Grow made my neighbors trees skyrocket!

From these posts that I'm seeing, I'm going to say if your having problems with growing Persimmons you probably have deficiencies in your soil that these trees want.


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RE: Persimmon.... Not really growing

I am in Zone 7 and have had an Eureka for about 15 years. I is a large tree about 20 ft. high and the same spread. Every year
it bears a great deal of blossoms. The fruit start falling when they are grape or small walnut size. This year only 3 have remained on the tree and they are the size of a tomato. Why do the fruit fall? There is no other persimmon tree in the area. Is it because of lack of cross pollination? Any advice?


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RE: Persimmon.... Fruit drop

I am in Zone 7 and have had an Eureka for about 15 years. I is a large tree about 20 ft. high and the same spread. Every year
it bears a great deal of blossoms. The fruit start falling when they are grape or small walnut size. This year only 3 have remained on the tree and they are the size of a tomato. Why do the fruit fall? There is no other persimmon tree in the area. Is it because of lack of cross pollination? Any advice?


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RE: Persimmon.... Not really growing

abnrmd:

I can't tell where in zone 7 you live, and I wish you would say, but I also live on the northern edge of zone 7, and just planted Eureka, Hachiya, and Fuyu this past spring. So far, so good, since all three have grown very nicely over the past summer, in spite of very dry conditions from midsummer on.

However, I don't think it is a sure thing at all that I will be able to grow these Kaki persimmons here, and there may even be differences among these three varieties. But the Kaki bee was put in my bonnet when I saw a beautiful little Kaki tree laden with fruit in the Falls Church area, which is about 15 miles south of me.

Based on the past ten years, winters here are at least 10 degrees milder than those we experienced in the 70's and much of the 80's. Since the early 90's, we have not in my memory gone much below 10F in any winter, and most have bottomed out at 15F or even higher. I think that when winter temps approach zero, it is curtains for most Kaki blossoms. So if current weather trends continue, I expect to be able to grow these fruits, but I could certainly be surprised by a cold winter at any time.

I think it is normal for Kaki trees to overset and shed a lot of fruit over the growing season, but there has to be some reason why you are left with only 3 on such a large and apparently healthy tree. All 3 varieties I am growing, Eureka included, are listed as self-fruitful, but persimmon pollination is a complex subject and there are a fair number of variables. It may be that this particular variety is more cold sensitive than others, and that your fruits were damaged by cold nights during their formation. There may also be something in your soil chemistry that is responsible for the early fruit drop.

If you post again, please tell us what kind of weather conditions you experience during blossoming and fruit set, particularly the night time lows. I am interested because I may soon be experiencing the same problems myself. It is surprising to me that your tree is 20 feet tall after 15 years in the ground. I had expected my Kaki trees to top out at 15 feet or less (I am pretty sure they are grafted to American persimmon), but it may require some pruning to keep them down.

Don Yellman, Great Falls, VA


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RE: Persimmon.... Not really growing

  • Posted by hkg1 z10 So Cal (My Page) on
    Fri, Oct 26, 07 at 2:23

alpine / scotkight,

Just wanted to share my experience.

I have a Fuyu persimmon tree for 4 to 5 yrs now(I could not remember exactly). It is growing in full sun in southern CA and is doing fine.

The first year I planted it all the fruits already on the tree dropped. It did not grow at all. The second year it grew a little ( I mean very little) but there was no flower and of course zero fruit. I am not sure it was unhappy because of the transplant or the soil. I did make sure it gets enough water (every other day for approx. 10 mins during summer). About 2 years ago, I added quite some steer manure and chicken manure to the soil. After that, for the past 2 years, it finally woke up and grew a lot. We just harvested more than 50 persimmons this year though they are not huge in size. I know it is not a lot of fruits but I cannot complain because I did not spend any time at all on this tree throughout the year.

Under the scorching sun of SoCal, normally some of the leaves are be sun-burned during the hot summer season. They do not look pretty on the tree but seems like the tree was not hurt by this.


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RE: Persimmon.... Pollination needed?

My Fuyu persimmon formed flowers and fruit in the second year but they all fell off. The Tanenashi persimmon I planted as companion never leafed out and died. I noticed that my neighbors had some persimmon trees about 200-300 feet away from mine. Does my Fuyu persimmon need another persimmon tree for pollination to bear reliably? Will persimmon trees 200-300 feet away pollinate my Fuyu? Do I need to plant another persimmon tree close by to pollinate my Fuyu to get fruit? I'd appreciate feedback from the more experienced persimmon growers here. Thanks.


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RE: Persimmon.... Not really growing

Just had to add another post about my "Fuyu" - a new development - I picked my very FIRST Fuyu fruit today.

As noted in my post above, the tree produced quite a lot of flower and set, then all but one dropped off. I hovered over it like a "worried mother hen" and now the time has come to ask - what do I do now?

The thing is as big as a soft ball, bright orange so far, hard yet, but I didn't want it to fall into the ice plant ground cover below the tree for the critters to enjoy - so picked it.

Will it soften up? I heard they are puckery if not ripe enough, should I let it get soft, refrigerate, put on a warm window sill?

This is my first persimmon, bear with me.

Just my 2 c's.

Bejay


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RE: Persimmon.... Not really growing

  • Posted by orto 8a (My Page) on
    Sat, Oct 27, 07 at 23:03

bjay

Fuyu is a non-astringent persimmon and you should be able to eat it firm but ripe.

However, for example hachiya is an astringent variety and needs to be soft to "mushy" before eaten. When I visit my inlaws in Italy we eat astringent persimmons when they are almost "soupy". Some find it gross but I love slurping them down as they are very sweet, and for me have a pleasant texture

Sam


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RE: Persimmon.... Not really growing

  • Posted by hkg1 10 So Cal (My Page) on
    Sun, Oct 28, 07 at 16:26

sshuang:

I don't think Fuyu needs another pollinator but I am not sure if the crop will increase if there is one nearby. My Fuyu is no where near another persimmon tree. It has no problem setting fruits and they stayed on the tree (several years after planting).


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RE: Persimmon.... Not really growing

You do not want a pollenizer for Fuyu, if there is one you will have seeded fruit. Fuyu flavor is not improved by pollinization as e.g. Coffee Cake or Hyakume or Chocolate. Fuyu is best grown alone so they remain seedless. The technical term is parthenocarpic (or something like that) meaning they will develop fruit whether they are pollenized or not.

I am also in zone 10 Southern California in windy north San Fernando Valley. In winter 2005 I planted 4 persimmons 2' apart on a small mound in soil amended with pumice and compost. They are in full sun and it gets over 100 with little humidity here in chapparal country. In 2006 one or two fruits formed among the four treelets. This year one on Chocolate (but it's gone), at least 50 on Maru small size, a dozen or more large fruits on Suruga and Hyakume. Some branches are so heavy they broke (how did I know this would happen when I read persimmons take up to 5 years to produce?). I don't fertilize them on any schedule. I toss clippings and compost makings under the trees, there is comfrey close by which is supposed to be deep rooted and bring up nutrients from the soil. I also sprinkled green sand around one year before I found out there are plenty of minerals in CA soil it just needs to be released (bound up by alkaline or some such) so now I use compost, steer manure and humic acid. Mostly I recycle just about everything that comes out of the ground back in. During really hot summer days I also water with an overhead oscillating sprinkler once or twice a day for 30 minutes or so.

With the last Santa Ana winds, Chocolate, positioned on the windward side of the quartet was blown nearly bald, the others kept their leaves and fruit.

Maybe I'm killing these trees with too much water and the fruiting is a last ditch effort to reproduce although they don't look unhealthy. I will have to thin the fruit next year if this keeps up.

I ordered a Saijo astringent persimmon to plant in this year - I'm out of land so it's going in a friend's yard just so I can taste the fruit someday soon.


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RE: Persimmon.... Not really growing

I live in Zone 5 and have ordered a "Natale" oriental persimmon to be delivered in mid April, then potted in 5 gallon pot which will be brought inside for winter (like I do with my fig plants). I surely will need good luck being in zone 5. Any suggestions/recommendations to a new commer to growing persimmon?


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RE: Persimmon.... Not really growing

Ottawan:

My advice would be: Don't try it. You may be able to keep an oriental persimmon tree barely alive by bringing it inside for winter, but I doubt you will ever see a persimmon. Just look above for the problems people have in much warmer climates.

I think you would get more satisfaction by growing something that is appropriate to your climate.

Don Yellman, Great Falls, VA


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RE: Persimmon.... Not really growing

I living in Texas. I planted a grafted Fuyu persimmons tree to the ground on Dec 2007. Three months passed, the grafted persimmons tree is still same condition like as I planted it. It didn't grow any new leave, only 1-2 tiny roots grow to the ground. I don't know that this tree is still alive? If anyone know how to take care the grafted tree, please let me know. Thank you.


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RE: Persimmon.... Not really growing

Ltsao,

Persimmons can take a long time to get going. I know this was the case with two I planted last spring. Like you I was starting to wonder whether they were still alive, and then they started to put on some growth. So I'd just hang in there a bit longer.


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RE: Persimmon.... Not really growing

ltsao,
I planted my grafted Fuyu persimmon in Jan 06 and it didn't leaf out until mid-April the first year, about a month after most other trees in the area. My Tanenashi persimmon never leafed out however. :^( If you are curious, you can scratch the bark to see if it is still alive. BTW, I plant my trees about 2 inches high with the graft above ground. After the soil settles, the tree will end up about right height with respect to the soil.

Sherman


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RE: Persimmon.... Not really growing

The baby fuyu tree we bought last fall leaf out 2 weeks ago.


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RE: Persimmon.... Not really growing

planted a fuyo persimmons this year2008, & this spring sprouts are everywhere and later small fruits are seen in so many different places. i live in San Diego Ca, my house location sit atop a small hill where constant wind blowing my small tree (6ft high)in the backyard. i built a small cone shape made of four skinny bamboo stick to keep my persimmon from swaying all over the place. i made sure the stick is not restricting the natural growth. this is the second time i tried planting a fuyo, the last one was back in 1985 x-mas day which died after a year (didn't know at that time persimmons sleep during winter and wake up again during the summer, so i mistakenly thought after fruits fall on the ground then later leaves start falling the tree is dead & beyond help, so i pulled it from the ground and threw it away). anyway, i don't want to lose this one i have now. so will someone help me please. is it ok to keep this four skinny stick around the tree to help it from swaying from all over the place, further my plan is to tie string to hold branch from breaking by the stick to tie them in.


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RE: Persimmon.... Not really growing

My Tanenashi has a foot of growth already and flowers yet. I posted about this earlier but got no responses. I only have 5 to 6 hours of sunlight right now. Could that be the problem?


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RE: Persimmon.... Not really growing

I planted my grafted Fuyu persimmons tree to the ground on Dec 2007. Five months passed, it is still no leaf out now. I wondering that is it still alive?


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RE: Persimmon.... Not really growing

maybe not. some persimmons are supposedly very slow to leaf, especially the first year. i planted 2 bare root persimmons in feb, they pass the scratch test, but no leaves. the other 8 i planted last year have had leaves since march


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RE: Persimmon.... Not really growing

I read this somwhere about newly planted trees:

First year they sleep
Second year they creep
Third year they leap.

That has pretty much been my experience with my Fuyu and Chocolate persimmons. I counted 7 fruits on the Fuyu last year (I ate 2 and the birds got 5) and this year (5th year since planting) I gave up counting after 50! Just give it some time...


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RE: Persimmon.... Not really growing

You never know with persimmons, I have had them take months extra to leaf out and have also had them never leaf out at all. There isn't anything to do besides wait and see.

Scott


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RE: Persimmon.... Not really growing

Does anyone know if persimmon can grow in containner? My mom gave me this nice jiro persimmon in a 20gallon containner, it is beautiful tree. I want to keep it in a containner, because we plant to move in three years, and I would hate to leave it.


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RE: Persimmon.... Not really growing

Hong:

I responded to your other post on this subject, and advised you to put the tree in the ground. However, I was unaware that you plan to move in 3 years.

Under these circumstances, I would keep the tree in the container and prune it back if it begins to grow too large. But it will do better if planted in the ground when you reach your new location.

Don Yellman, Great Falls, VA


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RE: Persimmon.... Not really growing

Thanks Jellyman, I will do just that :)


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RE: Persimmon.... Not really growing

Just found that my post is still alive. Woo! As a one year or so update, the persimmon is growing well. I have i against the south wall of my house and will be trying to form it into some type of an espalier format. I am not going for a hard form, more organic as it just fits the space better.

It has put on about 10" so far but no fruits. Stupid little black bugs nibble at the leaves, but don't really do much other than fall off if I come close or become daddy long legs food (yum yum!)

I'll post up a picture later.


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RE: Persimmon.... Not really growing

My grafted Fuyu persimmon has new leaves come out from rootstock last weekend. I am so happy for it since I planted it for 5 months already. My friend told me that most of the grafted persimmons were based on American persimmons rootstock, if the new leaves come from the rootstock, is the new leaves still the Fuyu persimmons?


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RE: Persimmon.... Not really growing

hmmm, i dont know. if the leaves are from the roostock, it may mean the rootstock's alive, but not the fuyu


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RE: Persimmon.... jellyman

say don, how did your persimmons do in their second year? how tall are they? any fruit?

thanks,


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RE: Persimmon.... Not really growing

I live near Houston, Texas, and am looking for fuyu persimmon trees to buy for my garden. Can anyone please tell me where I can find them in the Houston area. Thanks.


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RE: Persimmon.... Not really growing

A few comments related to various posts:

An early (1920s) collector of Asian persimmons was a professor whose summer place was in the mountains of Virginia, so there are some reasonably cold hardy ones.

The phenomenon of newly planted persimmons waiting interminably to leaf out occurs in selections of native persimmons too.

I am eating fruit from Asian persimmons that are still in 25 gallon pots (but will not stay there forever).


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RE: Persimmon.... Not really growing

nvan, try this link
http://www.google.com/search?q=houston+nurseries&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=or


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RE: Persimmon.... Not really growing

third year and another slow start, but in the past week a bunch of new growth. The tree is still very small but man many leaves have appeared. No flowers yet.


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RE: Persimmon.... Not really growing

I planted a grafted Fuyu Persimmon last February 15, 2012. On March 10, leaves started to sprout. However, as soon as the temperature went up, all the leaves started drying and falling off even if I have kept the ground moist and heavily mulched. I know it is still alive because the branch tips ( when I cut) are still green. Is the tree just going dormant? Should I use root stimulator. I have only sprinkled regular citrus/fruit tree fertizer for now. Should I use soluble miracle grow fertilizer. I live in Sugar Land, Texas Thank you most kindly for any help.


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RE: Persimmon.... Not really growing

I recently planted two fuyu peraimmon trees that were already 5 ft tall. One is doing well from the start. It has lots of new branches and leaves while the other one is just the opposite. It didn't sprout new branches or leaves. Ironically, the healthier of the two when I first got them is the one that's not doing well. They both did bare fruits, though. Now, the one that's not doing well has lost all of its fruits and the leaves turned red and yellow. The healthier one is also experiencing fruits falling off and some discoloration of the leaves, but there are a handful of fruits that remains. Hopefully, they will stay on to maturity. I do hope they will both survive.

This post was edited by khanou on Sun, Jun 9, 13 at 18:04


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RE: Persimmon.... Not really growing

This is the current picture.


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RE: Persimmon.... Not really growing

The other one before picture.


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RE: Persimmon.... Not really growing

Current picture.


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RE: Persimmon.... Not really growing

These are the fruits that remain. Oh, I live south of Corona, CA. Desert climate.


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RE: Persimmon.... Not really growing

Khanou.

The slower grower one, you can give it some fertilizer to get a jump start. The tree looks healthy though. Just remember, too much nitrogen will cause fruits drop.

Tony


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RE: Persimmon.... Not really growing

My permission tree has been in the ground for about 9 months and made 11 fruits this year. It's dropped 5 of them and I figure the remaining 6 are not long for this world. The tree isn't growing much and while the leaves don't look great they don't look terrible. I figure next year might bring some growth and maybe a mature fruit or two. I fertilize it using a mix that's lower on the nitrogen.


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RE: Persimmon.... Not really growing

I planted two persimmon trees 2 years ago.( Giant Fuyu) Both of them are growing beautifully. On one tree however, there’s still no fruit. But another tree is already giving me fruits this year (about 10) nothing was dropped. Fruits seems very large in size, I’m so happy. But another tree at August I noticed some weird small flowers, they didn’t look like the flowers on the other fruiting tree in May. I don’t know what kind of flowers they were, they’re small and weird. Anybody have any idea? Maybe the other tree is a male tree?


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RE: Persimmon.... Not really growing

Those are likely male flowers. Not uncommon on some non-astringent Fuyu types. The Giant Fuyu cultivar is male and female flowering so female flowers will come. I am impressed you got fruit on Giant Fuyu in its second year. I was told they can take up to 10 years to fruit so I skipped them as possible plantings and opted for the Jiro fuyu instead.

Male flowers on D. kaki (note males like groups of three):

This post was edited by Fascist_Nation on Mon, Nov 4, 13 at 11:38


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