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sara101101

Can I graft multi fruits to a mature peach tree?

Sara_in_philly
10 years ago

I have 4 peach trees. One big Georgia belle planted 5 yrs ago, the other 3(red haven, Elberta, Georgia bell) planted 4 yrs ago.

I just harvested about 50 lb of peaches from the big Georgia belle 2 weeks ago, and most of the peaches were harvested within the window of one week. Although The other trees' harvest are at least 2-4 weeks away, but i know it's going to be good.

After last year's complete loss due to brown rot, I am overjoyed with the bumper crop. At the same time i am also overwhelmed with peaches:-). I can only make that much peach jam and canned peaches.

So I am thinking what if I graft some plum and apricot to each of my peach trees? that way, I will have some variety of fruit to eat and to make jam with.

So my question is:

1) is this possible or I am just being crazy? (My husband just rolled his eyes when I mentioned my idea). I googled graft and multi tree graft, it seems it's done when the stock trees are young, is my understanding correct? Can I still graft to mature trees like mine(planted 4-5 yrs ago)? What I have in mind is having a few branches of other fruit on a peach tree.

2) if it's possible, do I graft to the main trunk or one of the main branch or....?

3) I don't have plum, apricot trees, can I buy one and use some cutting as scion? Or can I buy scion somewhere?

4) I also have some mature flowering crab apple trees, can I graf some apple to it?

I have lots of questions about graft, but first thing first, is grafting other fruits in the same family to mature peach trees possible?

PS this big Georgia belle had severe borer damage three yrs ago, it was almost beyong saving. some of you experts suggested to give it a try. It sure paid off. By the way, I tried to use latex paint and moth balls and struggled for more than a year, finally a pesticide for borer from big box store solved the problem.

Thanks for all your help!

Here is the link for my borer post

Here is a link that might be useful: Peach tree problem

Comments (91)

  • Tony
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I found that Red Baron peach got the most beautiful double bloom flower. Very showy. The fruit is delicious!

    Tony

  • eboone_gw
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    tonytran - when does that Red Baron Peach ripen for you?

  • Sara_in_philly
    Original Author
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Tony, that's really beautiful! I only associated beautiful bloom with flowering tree, guess I was wrong.

    Olpea, all my peach tree bloom were like your second picture:-(

  • mamuang_gw
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Olpea,

    Glad to hear your vote of confidence on Autumn Star. I figure if it weren't any good, I'll keep it just for its showy flowers in the spring!!!

    I was thinking that I'd try grafting AS to PF-1 next year. So, I can't then (not that I'd be any good at grafting peach for the first time anyway).

    I've also decided that the last peach I will plant next spring will be Winblo. I think TangO is too rubbery to my taste. ACN does not sell Winblo next spring so I'll order it from Fruit Tree Farm or any other nusery that sell it.

  • Tony
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Eboone,

    My RB just turned color. I will be harvesting in the next 2-3 weeks in zone 5. They are very tasty and awesome red flowers in the spring. People keep on asking me what it was.

    Tony

  • olpea
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Mamuang,

    I've got Winblo if you want to try grafting over your PF1 to it. I could send you some wood.

  • milehighgirl
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I hope I'm not hijacking this thread but the original topic is grafting to mature peach.

    I would like to get some practice with peach grafting. Last year my PF-24C broke due to too high fruit set w/o enough support. This is really not my favorite cultivar so I thought to learn on it. If I take scion from above the tree and graft the same onto the trunk should I use a bark graft (Konrad's modified)? How far above ground should I cut the tree? Is this the proper time to do it?

  • franktank232
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Olpea-

    What is your take on Winblo? Do you grow any nectarines or have you in the past?

  • mamuang_gw
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Hi Olpea,

    I hope I don't double post. I could find the one I posted an hour ago.

    I'd like to take up on your offer, please. I can't find your e-mail address. Could you please e-mail me? My e-mail is on My Page.

    Thank you very much.

  • marknmt
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    MileHighGirl, I don't think it's hijacking the thread at all! I'd like more discussion of the OP's concerns too.

    I like bark grafting because it's straightforward and doable, but when the rind is thick and inflexible it seems clumsy and prone to disease entry. So the question for me is just how big the rootstock branch can be in comparison to the scion. I've had almost no success with stonefruit grafting- one apricot and three plums being the exception- and I need to have as many things working in my favor as possible.

    So yes, let's go into rootstock diameter and bark thickness and define just what we're talking about.

    Mark

  • franktank232
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Only way i'll graft stonefruit is through budding... i started yesterday. Don't have a lot to graft, but thought i'd spread some stuff around in case i want to get rid of a tree or whatever ... My buds from last year did very well...plenty of takes, some had a ton of growth this year and some had very little...

    Budding is very easy..just use a small/very sharp knife...match the bud size to the wood you are grafting it onto...line up cambium (green with green)...tape it up and rubber band it tight...check it in a few weeks...you'll know if it takes or not.

  • milehighgirl
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    franktank232,

    So I use scion that is growing now, not saved dormant from the pervious year? (which of couse I don't have now)

  • franktank232
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Yes... pencil thickness or less...

    Just practice on whatever you have..apples, pears, whatever... Place a few buds and check them in a few weeks.

    One issue i've had is placing buds too high up in the tree... so its good to cut branches way back and get some new wood growing (obviously too late now)...

  • olpea
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Mamuang,

    I'll be glad to send you some wood. I haven't had good luck using the email through Gardenweb. Email me through my website: tubbyfruits.com

    I have best luck budding in the late summer. For me, temps must be below 90F but above 80F for the high. That generally happens here around the 1st of Sept (although this year we have had a very cool summer and I've done some budding and plan to do some more tomorrow.) The other thing I think is important is to use parafilm on the grafts. I know there are lots of people who graft successfully without parafilm, but I tried it for years and had low takes until I started using parafilm. I pre-stretch the parafilm and make only two wraps around the graft (no more than two). The T bud itself must be wrapped with some other tape before the parafilm is applied since the parafilm isn't suitable to hold bud flaps in place. The parafilm is only used to keep in the right amount of moisture to keep things from drying out.

    Frank,

    I just planted three Winblo this spring. Last year Adams County didn't advertise Winblo on their website, but they had it available on their inventory list.

    I've been afraid to grow nectarines until recently. Everyone I talk to says they are hard to grow. In 2012 I planted 3 or 4 different ones, added a few more in 2013 and have a few more ordered for 2014. One of the ones I have ordered for next year is Summer Beaut. Hman has recommended this one for a long time and it's finally available from Adams.

  • marknmt
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    MileHighGirl, it was difficult for me to understand bud wood for summer budding, but once you do it you'll find it quite clear.

    You need dormant buds from this year's growth. As Frank says above, take a pencil-thickness shoot. At the point of attachment of leaves there is usually a new bud on this wood. Slice into the bark just above this point and shave the bud off, holding on to it by the leaf. Voila, you have your bud ready to insert. It's common practice to remove the leaf itself after cutting the bud stick, but do leave the petiole on for a handle. Before the bud is sliced off of the stick you'll want to have its destination prepared. Slip it in, wrap it up, label it and cross your fingers.

    The link below is to a video to the process.

    Here is a link that might be useful: Allen Cosnow of Nafex

  • milehighgirl
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Marknmt,

    You need dormant buds from this year's growth.

    I think this is what is tripping me up. You mean buds that have formed for next years growth but have not opened yet? IOW this year's growth that will not become a branch until next year?

    I think I'm getting it now.

  • marknmt
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Yes! They're tucked in at the axis where the leaf petiole joins the stem. They really show up on apricot, where there may be three or four to the leaf. The video linked above makes it clear at about 1:10 into it. Consider them the tree's spare parts kit.

    The nice thing about these guys is that there will often be more than one dormant bud at that point. Only one should emerge, but if it fails, and the graft has healed over, you may get another shot at it.

    Mark

  • Sara_in_philly
    Original Author
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Ok, just found two plum trees, one is Mythley, one is Byrongold. They are on sale, $11 each. Hope they are mislabel this time:-) I looked up, Mythley is self-pollination, Byrongold needs cross pollination. So can the Mythley be the cross pollinator for byrongold?

    Can I start budding them to my peach trees now? I have been reading everything I can find about budding on Internet, any tips from your personal experience?

    By the way, just discover that my crabapple trees are infected with cedar rust, so I assume I shouldn't try to graft apple to them now, correct?

  • franktank232
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Yup..its some leaf buds for next year and maybe some flowers...

  • Sara_in_philly
    Original Author
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    This is a dumb question, so please don't laugh. Is there always a leave bud between the leave and the stem? I cut off a new peach shoot and am studying it. It seems like there is something between every leaf and the stem, is that the leaf bud? Of course, some of them already have multipe leaves growing out of there. If that is the leaf bud, can I use all of them? How do I pick?

    The second question: for T-budding, the size of the rootstock branch doesn't have to match the scion branch, right? it can/should be be bigger than the scion branch as long as you can peel back the bark, right?

  • marknmt
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Nothing dumb about those questions at all! Those are exactly the details that people get hung up on.

    If I understand your first question correctly, then "Yes". There is (almost) always a dormant bud tucked in under the point where the stem connects to the branch from which it grows, and on each branch there will be multiple developed leaves attached. They'll be an inch, maybe two apart, scattered along the little branch. In the video I posted a couple of posts up he goes into how to pick. Even though there may be several buds at each leaf axis only one emerges at a time. Each of the budsticks provides multiple, distinct buds, each of which may be used or ignored.

    The diameter of the bud stick, your source of the buds, does not have to match the diameter of the rootstock. The rootstock will often be a little larger, maybe even quite a bit larger; just be sure that the rootstock is well-watered and that the bark is flexible and cooperative. So it sounds like your basic understandings are correct.

    Work clean and don't let things dry out.

    Good luck,

    Mark

    This post was edited by marknmt on Sun, Aug 11, 13 at 21:29

  • Sara_in_philly
    Original Author
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Thank you Mark!

    The video link you posted is very good, it's very detailed. In this video, when he cuts off the bud from the bud stick, he cuts off some hard wood with it. I remember one of video I watched mentioning that you can peel off the hard wood from the bud. Do you have any opinion about that? Would peeling off the hard wood be better? Fit better into the the"pocket"?

  • marknmt
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Sara, I gather, from comments made to me here last week (thread linked below) that removing the wood can be useful, especially when working with smaller stock. I got some practice at this yesterday when I finally did those grafts, and I found it a little tricky to pick the wood out- so be prepared to practice a little, bring your youngest eyes and steadiest hands and maybe a darning needle. I managed OK, I think, with just my knife, but then we don't know the end yet!

    I think it would be useful for you to post a picture of your tree and let everybody see just what you're dealing with. That would let people speak to specifics and help you gain a clearer understanding of just what you need to do to get where you want to be.

    Mark

    Here is a link that might be useful: advice on budding

  • ltilton
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    So many of the budding videos and advice articles assume you are working with a rootstock, not topworking an existing tree, which comes with its own set of problems.

  • marknmt
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Ltilton is completely right and makes a very important point.

    I hope that once we get a photo of the tree we can talk about just what to graft to, and how. A 4" branch ain't agonna accept a bud, at least not one I've placed! I'd like for Sara to have watersprouts that she can bend over to horizontal- those can be good candidates for budding, as well as good sources for buds.

    But it's once again time for my disclaimer: I have extremely limited experience with stone fruit grafting and budding, and everything I say is subject to correction. Please comment freely.

    Best,

    Mark

  • Sara_in_philly
    Original Author
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Mark,
    Thank you for your help! Here are pictures of my trees, I was having trouble earlier to download pic from my camera.

    Here is a potential thin bud stick, I have been practing, I found it easier to work with a thin tender bud stick, even thinner than this. (I work under the magnifying glass.). It's easier to get the wood out. Is this too thin?

    {{gwi:120561}}

    Here is a thicker bud stick

    {{gwi:120562}}
    Here is the root stock peach tree.
    {{gwi:120563}}

    The red circles are the spots I am thinking of grafting to
    {{gwi:120564}}

    {{gwi:120565}}

    What do you think?

    I really appreciate your help!

  • ltilton
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Spent the morning putting apricot buds onto my plum tree, mostly up on the ladder because there is little appropriate low wood. Time and again, either cutting the bud or trying to put it in place, the thing falls to the ground and disappears utterly in the grass.

  • marknmt
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I need help here. There are a lot of people much more qualified than I to talk about grafting/budding, especially stone fruit, and I hope they respond to your post. You know who you are people, so please speak up.

    But to try to answer Sara's specific questions: You're at the point where you might as well start doing it. because from where I see it you're right on track.

    If you can work with delicate small stock go right ahead. And while you're at it you might share your magnifying glass set up. But that top bud stick you have looks like a very workable size to me- right now I'm waiting to see how successful I was with some apricot buds that were smaller still. I don't doubt that you can handle that one.

    My bigger problem on the apricot budding had more to do with the fragility of the bark I was trying to slip the buds under. Sometimes I wish I had three hands ...

    I think the spots you chose to insert the buds makes sense, but I hope they aren't the only ones you do. You can put more than one on a given branch, although you might not keep more than one. I'd try to slip a bud in anywhere I can get the bark to cooperate. If you beat up the bark too much in your attempts to make the graft you can probably just wrap it up with parafilm and let it heal. I've done that several times. Tree always seems to survive my clumsiness.

    Make sure the rootstock and the budstick are well watered. I was very careful to work clean on my apricot project- lots of 70% rubbing alcohol from a spray bottle on my gloved hands and on the budstick and rootstock and tools. And from working on small stuff I learned that it was better to rock the knife blade into the bark of the rootstock rather than to draw it down like a pencil making a line.

    A couple of posts earlier (8/12) ltilton raises a very important point. By grafting onto branches sticking every which way, and competing with the rest of the tree, your new bud will face some challenges. But before you deal with them you have to have them, and you'll have them only after you get some buds going. I think you're ready, so go for it.

    I sure hope people contribute to and correct my observations, and thanks for doing so.

    M

  • Sara_in_philly
    Original Author
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Mark, thank you!

    This is the magnifying glass I have
    {{gwi:120566}}

    http://www.amazon.com/Mighty-Bright-Floor-Light-Magnifier/dp/B001D49350/ref=sr_1_3?s=hpc&ie=UTF8&qid=1376787788&sr=1-3

    I got it from JoAnn fabric store on clearance sale. It's quite a neat toy. Much easier to work thin bud stick under it.

    I intend to put as many buds in as possible. It seems my peach tree has thicker skin(cambium), much easier to peel back than the plum I have.

    Ltilton, I don't have your skill to cut bud outside, i can only manage it under the magnifying glass:-( By the way, you are in zone 5, should be cooler than where I am. It is still warm enough for you to do it? It has cool off quite a bit here in the past few days, and I recall somebody said he was only successful when the temp is high. I was a little worried.

  • olpea
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Sara,

    I won't comment much on the rootstock you are using because I've never tried to top work a peach tree.

    In terms of the budwood, size doesn't matter to me. If the rootstock is larger, I try to use buds that are on thicker budwood. If the rootstock is smaller, I like to use really small buds. I've successfully budded peaches on rootstocks less than 1/4" in dia. 3/16" is about the smallest I've tried.

    There's not much room for error with really small rootstocks, and you have to go slower, but they seem to heal in OK.

    Most years I prune all summer long. Because of this, peach trees are constantly sending new wood from buds. In other words any wood much above 5/16 will send out new shoots from the buds, so all my budwood tends to be pretty small diameter. Continual summer pruning forces growth on larger budwood.

    I'm not an expert on budding, but for my part, I've found temperatures are the major factor to successful takes. Anything above 90F is detrimental. It just wants to cook the grafts. However, the daytime highs need to be above 80F for quick callusing.

    Some swear the T-buds need to be sprayed with copper, but I've had 90% takes when the temps are right w/o copper.

    I don't doubt good sanitation practices help (i.e. disinfectants) but I don't use them. If my razor blade is dirty, I wipe it off on my pant leg.

    I do think it's important to wrap the whole bud with parafilm. I've neglected this step before with poor results. I've also tried to wrap the bud in plastic wrap, but the buds get soggy (again with poor % takes).

  • Sara_in_philly
    Original Author
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Olpea, thank you for the info! Now I remember, it was you talking about the temp and budding success rate. I think I still have some 80 degree days to come, what a relief! I don't have para film, I was hoping I can get away with using plastic wrap. Guess I should order para film.

    By the way, I am picking my redhaven now, which means my mystic peach tree is 30 day ahead. ACN table suggest it's PF 1 Flamin'Fury, or Rich May.
    My peach fruit is very red, cling stone but not nearly as cling as some nectarine I ate, so maybe semi- cling, and very productive, taste is not as good as redhaven. So you think it's possible PF 1 Flamin'Fury?

    Some of mystic tree leaves are turn yellow and dropping now while other peach trees are not.

    I asked my husband prune the tree this summer and got rid a lot of straight up shoot. As a result, a lot of fruits are exposed to sun and turned really red and soft. So one part of peach is really soft and rest is still hard. Should the fruit be shield by leaves?

    I want to thank you again for spending the time helping amateurs like me, really appreciate it.

    Mark, same to you, really appreciate your help.

  • marknmt
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Olpea, your comments about temperature give me hope. We've been in the 80's daily since I budded my apricots. But what about night time lows? We've been dropping into the 50's and 60's.

    And I am encouraged that my failures may have had less to do with sloppy technique/poor sanitation than with temperature. I need to remember that.

    Thanks!

  • olpea
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    "Guess I should order para film."

    Sara,

    I started using parafilm in 2011 and saw a big improvement in peach budding. I budded 20 Harken peaches that fall and had 18 takes. It was the first time I had 90%.

    Before that I had used plastic wrap (lots of soggy buds) or nothing (lots of buds dried out). I even tried carefully cutting a small hole in the plastic (right where the bud was) to let a little air in, but that didn't work well either.

    Last year I budded another 24 peaches (when the weather was correct) and had 21 successful grafts. I also budded about 20 peaches/apricots when the weather was too hot and every single one failed. I budded about 15 peaches/apricots when the weather was too cold and all those failed too.

    There is one caveat to the data though. Not only were the failed buds grafted when the weather was really hot, or too cold, but they were also shipped through the mail, whereas the successful takes were not only budded in favorable weather, but the budwood came from my own orchard. So it's possible (but unlikely in my opinion) that sending budwood through the mail makes it less viable.

    The reason I think it's unlikely is that I've always had problems successfully budding when the temps aren't right, plus the budwood I got in the mail looked fine.

    This summer I've budded a total of 50 peaches and apricots. About 1/2 of those were from budwood in the mail. The weather has been ideal for budding, so I may be able to infer more information from this years results.

    One thing I'm doing differently this year is not wrapping the buds with aluminum foil (to keep the sun off). I've actually not used aluminum foil before, but never not used it on so many grafts.

    Temps are forecasted to go up to 90F for the next few days, so I may go out and wrap some grafts with aluminum foil after all. In reality I don't know if the aluminum foil helps or not. Scott uses it (or used to) and my wife's uncle grafted hundreds of pecan trees for his orchard and swears by aluminum foil.

    I haven't done enough budding without aluminum foil to know if it is a significant help on peaches or not. As a general rule I don't think nurseries use foil for propagating peach.

  • marknmt
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Sara, I order parafilm from Midwest Vineyard, along with budding rubbers. I'm sure there are other good sources but I like these guys fine, and I think a few others here do also.

    I think that if you didn't get parafilm in time you might try wrapping with an ordinary wide rubber band and smearing with a little wax from a toilet bowl seating ring, sold widely as a "Johnny Ring". I haven't tried it but I bet it would work. I do use it on early-season grafts to slow dehydration.

    I am getting optimistic about my apricot buds- Olpea's experience gives me hope!

    Here is a link that might be useful: Parafilm source

  • olpea
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Thanks Mark,

    I've noticed a lot of people use the narrower parafilm. I don't think it makes a difference, but I use the 2" wide parafilm. When not in use, I store it in the freezer because some folks have indicated it breaks down slowly at room temperature.

    You'd asked whether nightime lows matter. I haven't paid much attention to nightime lows, but I don't think it would matter. Peach trees callus nicely b/t 80 and 90 daytime highs, so unless there was some extreme low, I don't think the lows would matter.

    Re: Grafting supplies

    This is a bit of a duplication to the other currently active thread called "Summer Budding" but I'll go ahead and give my 2 cents.

    Everyone uses different equipment and most people get used to the equipment they have and keep using it because we're all creatures of habit, so equipment probably doesn't make much difference.

    That said, I use disposable razor knives (the cheap plastic kind that you break part of the blade off when it gets dull). I like them because they are about a buck a piece, never require sharpening, yet razor sharp. Convenient, easy and fast.

    The disadvantage is that for T-budding, it's a little trickier to peal the bark back (vs. a true budding knife) but you get used to it. I had a budding knife once, but lost it. Since then I've used disposable razor knives.

    For wrapping the graft/bud I use rubber electrical tape (rubber not vinyl). It's about 3 dollars/roll at Home Depot. A roll lasts a long time. I tried using budding rubbers but I didn't stay with them long enough to figure out how to tie them to themselves while holding the chip or graft in place. I mostly do T-budding (which would make the budding rubbers easier to tie) but occasionally I do some chip budding or even simple whip grafts for things like apple.

    The rubber tape sticks to itself very nicely so you don't have to tie it off. I don't like vinyl electrical tape because if you want to look at your work after a couple weeks, the vinyl peals the bark off if you try to remove it. Plus the vinyl doesn't stretch as much as the rubber. It's just not as nice to work with.

    The rubber tape is 3/4" wide, which is too wide, so I cut strips half that wide (using my trusty disposable razor blade). The cut strips are about the same width as budding rubbers. Just before I wrap the graft/bud I pre-stretch the rubber and wrap away. Then I pre-stretch the parafilm and wrap the whole bud two times around with the parafilm. Sometimes I'll wrap the whole thing in aluminum foil to give it a little shade, but I'm starting to move away from that step.

    As mentioned, I prefer T-budding for peaches. I don't get quite the results with chip budding. Chip budding requires a little more precision in terms of cutting the pocket and chip to get the cambiums to line up. Plus chip budding has the disadvantage of the chip sometimes wanting to fall out of the "pocket" while trying to wrap it. Or it will move around while trying to wrap it. With T-budding, you just split the bark, slip the bud in. Nothing to line up - quick and easy.

    Again most of this is just what you get used to. Find a system and tools that work for you and stick with them and your proficiency will improve.

  • ltilton
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    olpea, what's the advantage of wrapping with tape or rubbers on top of the parafilm? The parafilm wrap seems sufficient to me for budding, as opposed to grafting a scion stick.

  • olpea
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    ltilton,

    I wrap the T-bud with the rubber tape first, then I wrap the parafilm on top of the rubber tape (covering the whole graft).

    The reason I use the parafilm is because it prevents the T-bud from drying out. Without parafilm, the bark on the rootstock right next to the little leaf bud seems to want to dry out and pull away from the bud piece (allowing more air to get underneath there and dry things out even more). Of course the rubber tape holds the bark and bud piece above and below the little leaf bud, but right beside the leaf bud the rootstock bark wants to pull away because I can't tape it as good right there unless I covered up the little leaf bud (which of course you wouldn't want to do).

    Some people just use thin parafilm tape to wrap the graft and don't use any grafting rubbers at all. It sounds like that's what you do. I was always afraid the parafilm would break down before the graft healed in. I notice it seems to break down pretty fast on my grafts, long before the rubber tape underneath breaks down.

    But if the parafilm tape is working for you, maybe I am doing an unnecessary step wrapping the buds with rubber tape first. Still, I'm kind of reluctant to change my methods now that I've found a technique that seems to give me good results. This morning I spot checked some bud grafts I did two weeks ago. I unwrapped 6 bud grafts and they were all healed in nicely. The last two weeks we've had the best weather imaginable for budding. Perfect temps and lots of rain.

  • milehighgirl
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Some people just use thin parafilm tape to wrap the graft and don't use any grafting rubbers at all.

    I have found that using rubber (I cut a wide rubberband) is essential to a good graft. I tried w/o the rubber and just used parafilm and my takes were zero. Once I started using the rubber bands my takes were consistently higher. IMO it's so easy to put a rubber band around it that it would seem senseless to try without.

  • franktank232
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I always use rubber bands. Just buy some wider ones at WalMart and cut them in half...

    I still think the major problem with budding is find low enough wood...nothing worse then having grafts take 6ft in the air (which i have plenty of!)

  • milehighgirl
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Some people just use thin parafilm tape to wrap the graft and don't use any grafting rubbers at all.

    I have found that using rubber (I cut a wide rubberband) is essential to a good graft. I tried w/o the rubber and just used parafilm and my takes were zero. Once I started using the rubber bands my takes were consistently higher. IMO it's so easy to put a rubber band around it that it would seem senseless to try without.

  • ltilton
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I wouldn't say that I'm having good success with it, since I've never done this before. But I find the rubbers difficult to use and the parafilm so easy, I just fell into the way of doing it.

    I agree that in grafting, as opposed to budding the parafilm wouldn't be adequate to hold the graft in place.

  • olpea
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Thanks Milehigh.

    I've never tried it but your reasoning makes sense to me.

    ltilton,

    Please post back how it works for you. Didn't the Nafex guy (on the link posted earlier in the thread) just use parafilm and no budding rubber (can't remember)? If so, I wonder if the sun isn't as intense where he's at vs. CO or KS, so that the sun doesn't break down the parafilm as quickly.

  • marknmt
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I've always felt that I needed the good mechanical pull that a budding rubber provides, and to keep it from drying out I think it needs to be sealed with parafilm or wax. Parafilm is my first choice because it breathes a little. But it's not enough by itself to make me feel secure! I used the Ace rubber tape this year on clefts and felt like it worked really well.

    Rubber tape or bands or rubbers all seem good to me. I think that if you use the wide budding rubbers or tape and overlap thoroughly then the parafilm/wax precaution is probably redundant, but it's cheap redundancy and I do it.

    I use wide and long rubbers also because it's easier to wrap them off- you have so much to work with, and they're cheap enough that you can afford to cut off excess.

    Like MiHiGirl I'm in the Rockies, but not at a mile high! We're at 3200 ft, give or take a couple of feet. But it's definitely an arid environment: we get about 12-13 inches total precip per year.

  • ltilton
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I happen to have met Al, he's also a Midfex guy, and I was a member for a while. So I know he's from the general Chicago area, as I am. Not all that intense heat.

  • milehighgirl
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    marknmt,

    I agree with everything you posted. Maybe it is that we are in more arid climates. I received quite a few grafted grapevines from (Grafted Grapevines) and they had dipped the scion in wax. I tried this with my very first pear grafts and it kept the scion so moist that I thought the grafts had taken but just never grew. I dipped the scion in warm wax and let it cool in between dips. This won't work for bud grafts but it will help with other grafting techniques. It does require more delicate handling and is probably easier when not grafting onto rootstock that's planted.

  • marknmt
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    MileHighGirl, I've been following your posts (unless I'm confused -it happens!) since you first began rescue efforts on the old pear, is that right? I imagine that by now you must be nearly awash in fruit. How are things going production wise? Roughly how much of what? I have just two fruitful trees now, and they will keep us in apples and pears for many weeks. I put up apricots and plums when I can get them from others' trees. Tempted to try a peach but we don't really have the room. Same with grapes.

    It sounds like you are having a lot of fun- I'll admit to a little envy, no question.

    :-)Mark

  • Sara_in_philly
    Original Author
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Ok, so far I have budded multiple plum to one of my peach tree. I have used plastic wrap alone, rubber band plus para film, and plastic wrap (used to tied up the graft like rubber band) plus para film. Will update you all the progress. How soon can I find out whether my graft has survived? And how? Unwrap and see?

    Thank you all for all the wonderful advice and lively discussion! I learned a lot!

  • milehighgirl
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    marknmt,

    I wish I were inundated with fruit but this was a bad year for late frosts. I actually sold the property where my grandfather's pear tree was. I never got a good scion take from it unfortunately. I never figured out what kind of pear it was but they ripened in July.

    I don't have anything but a regular back yard as far a size goes but I've planted over 50 trees and I probably have at least 30 small fruit shrubs and vines. I got a handful of cherries and gooseberries this year. There is one single Silver Logan peach and one Red Klapp's Favorite pear still ripening. My biggest harvest is the rhubarb this year.

    Next year will be better I hope.

  • marknmt
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    That's what I was saying last year, and so far it has worked out. I imagine that soon enough you'll have bushels, and I can see where that could be a mixed blessing, ay?

    And Sara, I'm looking forward to hearing success stories. Let the buds go at least a couple of weeks before unwrapping. I prefer to leave wrap on as long as possible, and I think it's great when the sun just takes care of removing it for me!

    Good luck.

  • franktank232
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    You can leave them wrapped all winter...although both parafilm and rubber bands break down (from the sun)...

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