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Can I graft multi fruits to a mature peach tree?

Posted by sara_in_philly 6 PA (My Page) on
Wed, Jul 31, 13 at 15:16

I have 4 peach trees. One big Georgia belle planted 5 yrs ago, the other 3(red haven, Elberta, Georgia bell) planted 4 yrs ago.

I just harvested about 50 lb of peaches from the big Georgia belle 2 weeks ago, and most of the peaches were harvested within the window of one week. Although The other trees' harvest are at least 2-4 weeks away, but i know it's going to be good.

After last year's complete loss due to brown rot, I am overjoyed with the bumper crop. At the same time i am also overwhelmed with peaches:-). I can only make that much peach jam and canned peaches.

So I am thinking what if I graft some plum and apricot to each of my peach trees? that way, I will have some variety of fruit to eat and to make jam with.

So my question is:

1) is this possible or I am just being crazy? (My husband just rolled his eyes when I mentioned my idea). I googled graft and multi tree graft, it seems it's done when the stock trees are young, is my understanding correct? Can I still graft to mature trees like mine(planted 4-5 yrs ago)? What I have in mind is having a few branches of other fruit on a peach tree.

2) if it's possible, do I graft to the main trunk or one of the main branch or....?

3) I don't have plum, apricot trees, can I buy one and use some cutting as scion? Or can I buy scion somewhere?

4) I also have some mature flowering crab apple trees, can I graf some apple to it?

I have lots of questions about graft, but first thing first, is grafting other fruits in the same family to mature peach trees possible?

PS this big Georgia belle had severe borer damage three yrs ago, it was almost beyong saving. some of you experts suggested to give it a try. It sure paid off. By the way, I tried to use latex paint and moth balls and struggled for more than a year, finally a pesticide for borer from big box store solved the problem.

Thanks for all your help!

Here is the link for my borer post

Here is a link that might be useful: Peach tree problem


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: Can I graft multi fruits to a mature peach tree?

Yes but I don't know how many varieties will graft. Apple will not go to peach. If it did, every one would be using seedling apple trees for rot stock and main trunk and would just graft to the branches..Try different varieties of peach that ripen both earlier and latter than any you have now. If you chose apricots you must make sure to get pollinating varieties. With plums, that might work but I think if it did we would be using plum rootstock. Trim the tree smaller. It will take less room, produce less fruit and will be easier to pick. Because the peach tree borer is so sever, i plant seeds from peach leaf curl resistant peaches and I keep a bunch growing with new one every year to replace the stricken. At 30 a tree, I grow from seed when ever possible. I have to admit that peaches are the best tasting of any home grown fruit.

I have heard of one person that planted seed under existing trees and grafted them to the larger tree to act as additional root an support for heavy limbs loaded with fruit


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RE: Can I graft multi fruits to a mature peach tree?

I'd prefer to leave this question to Olpea, Scottsmith, or any of the other more qualified here, but just to throw in my understanding I'll mention some basic points.

Point 1 is that many of the stone fruit can be grafted to one another, and sometimes it works. Sometimes it works for a short time, say a few years, and then fails. But sometimes it works.

Point 2 is that many of the "fruit salad" trees consist of a number of different varieties of apricot, peach, and plum grafted to the same rootstock which is compatible with each of them, but that does not mean that each of the individual varieties will be compatible with one another.

Point 3 is that peaches and apricots are harder to graft to than are some of the other fruits; pears are known as the easiest, apples next, and then plums. (If you notice the absence of cherries above it's because I don't know anything about cherries).

Point 4 is that lots of these things are doable, and some are not, and the devil may lie in the details.

But to try to address some of your specific questions, starting with the first. While these multigrafts are frequently done with very young rootstock at a nursery it's still common practice to topwork trees in the field. So if you want to do it and learn how you can.

Graft to branches. While you can sometimes graft to the trunk it's generally better to graft to branches that are well formed and established.

You can get scion and budwood from any existing tree when it's in the right growth phase, or you can buy it. We often swap/share stuff here.

You can graft apple to crab apple very readily. Go for it- it's a great way to practice and learn about grafting.

If you learn to graft well you should be able to graft different varieties of peaches to one another without compatability issues. I've never grafted peaches and have only very limited success with their close kin apricots, but it is done all the time by those who know how. But as to whether you can graft a given apricot, plum or almond to a peach, well, I don't know. Sometimes you just have to try it to find out. I'd guess apricot and peach would get along pretty well, but I'm guessing.

I hope this rambling helps. One thing I should mention is the chart published by the Fowler Nursery- it lists commonly used rootstocks together with their applications. It can be a kind of an eye opener to see.

Good luck.

Here is a link that might be useful: Rootstock chart.


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RE: Can I graft multi fruits to a mature peach tree?

  • Posted by murky z8f pnw Portlan (My Page) on
    Wed, Jul 31, 13 at 20:23

I've had better success grafting plums to my mature peach tree than grafting peach to it.

I bought a house with several peach trees, but in our climate peach leaf curl is rampant and the trees don't do very well.

The plums I've grafted to thee peach tree seem to be doing great.

I still have a coupe of mature peaches that make 5-10 peaches a year. I plan to graft them over to plums in the spring. I've planted 3 new peach trees that are curl resistant.

So yes, you can graft plums to the peach tree, even a mature one. An added benefit, for me, of grafting over these next trees is that I will be able to lower the canopy quite a bit with bark grafts.

BTW, Raintree nursery sells some of their plum trees grafted onto peach seedlings.

And yes, you can also graft apple onto your flowering crab. Apple are among the easiest and most forgiving to graft and would be a great place to start.


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RE: Can I graft multi fruits to a mature peach tree?

I'm really glad that Murky, who has been one of my grafting mentors here, offered his experience. He know a lot about this. I hesitate naming names because I inevitably leave somebody out, and this is one of those times. There's a dozen others I left out too, and I'm not going to repeat the mistake by trying to fix it. My apologies, and thanks.


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RE: Can I graft multi fruits to a mature peach tree?

  • Posted by olpea zone 6 KS (My Page) on
    Thu, Aug 1, 13 at 0:04

Sara,

The 50#s of peaches you harvested from Georgia Belle are not Georgia Belle peaches. It is some other white peach sold to you mislabeled.

Georgia Belle ripens about 25 days after Redhaven. Your peach is way to early in PA for a Georgia Belle.

In terms of making a fruit cocktail tree out of your mature tree. It can be done, but old peach bark is harder to graft than young bark.

Peach trees grow really fast, so my suggestion would be to plant some peach pits and try to make some fruit cocktail trees from those seed stocks. That would be easier grafting and give you lots of material to experiment on.

Murky,

Have you ever had success grafting a Euro plum on peach, or were all your results with Jap plums on peach?


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RE: Can I graft multi fruits to a mature peach tree?

Sara, if you want to try this I would cut off the tree at a bit below waist height and do bark grafts all around the stump. You will be able to fit a bunch of them and some will work hopefully. Plums are easier so if there are some plums there at least those will work. Or, just try plums since the others are likely to fail. Cut it higher and do a round or two of bogus grafts just to get some experience before doing the real ones.

Olpea, apricots, Jap and Euro plums are all partly compatible with peach stock - often they work but occasionally they don't. The Euros are somewhat less likely to work. I have not had any failures but a few apricots I put on peach are severely runting out.

Scott


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RE: Can I graft multi fruits to a mature peach tree?

Sara, I'm glad you got advice from the others. They are all much more qualified than I.

When I suggested grafting to branches rather than to the trunk I forgot to consider grafting to the stump; I was thinking more along the line of people trying to add branches along the trunk via bark grafting.

An approach I use on apple and pear is to stump back a scaffold branch when it's about 1" to 1 1/2" in diameter and graft to that. It seems to heal pretty reliably and puts on good growth. I find it less intimidating to do one branch here and one branch there than to take everything off!

Sorry to confuse and I'm glad some of the stone fruit experts are here to set things straight.

Good luck,

Mark


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RE: Can I graft multi fruits to a mature peach tree?

I too have plans to graft other stone fruits to my 2 yr old Loring or Methly plum trees.

Please let me know what would be the best time for grafting, fall/winter/spring and ideal month. thanks


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RE: Can I graft multi fruits to a mature peach tree?

  • Posted by murky z8f pnw Portlan (My Page) on
    Thu, Aug 1, 13 at 16:31

Olpea, all of my plum to peach grafts have been European plums. The reason I was hopeful that they'd be compatible is because my first multi-grafted tree is a Euro plum multi-graft from Raintree on peach seedling.

It had Italian Prune, Early Laxton, and Seneca.

I've since read claims that Japanese work on peach but not Euro. Funny. I grafted a handful of Euros onto my peach (a tree that was suffering) and I believe all of them took. I can verify the varieties if anybody is interested. They all grew several feet the first year and some of them flowered and fruited the following (this) spring. I remember Peach plum is one of them.

I've added a link with some pictures. I did whip and tongue as well as bark grafts to previous year's growth. The grafts were done is spring as the peach leaves had emerged and were growing.

In retrospect I wish I'd grafted lower on the tree, but I would have needed to protect the grafts from deer for a season or two and I would only be able to add 2 or 3 varieties. I haven't tried doing the bark graft to a cut into 3 or 4" diameter wood on the peach, but I did do several onto a green gage or similar plum with very good results.

My impression from this limited experience is that the difficulty in grafting peach comes from the peach scion rather than the host, since my plums took and the peach scion I tried did not (though it could have been scion integrity, I only tried one variety of peach).

I greatly prefer European plums to Japanese, so that is where most of my experience lies. I've found Euro plums to be very high percentage take when grafted while the host is actively growing.

Here is a link that might be useful: Pictures of the peach freshly grafted to Euro plums


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RE: Can I graft multi fruits to a mature peach tree?

Ladies and Gentlemen

I am so glad I tossed my hat in the ring with the lame ideas that I had. I have learned so much from this thread that I can produce combos. for our inner city garden communities that can not afford to buy trees. A few pics of seed grown red havens click link.

Thanks Steve

Here is a link that might be useful: https://plus.google.com/photos/111099372377958308731/albums/5907281429730960177


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RE: Can I graft multi fruits to a mature peach tree?

I've read that stone fruits are more successful budded than grafted. Surprised that no one is discussing this here.

I've been planning to do some budding realsoonnow to my Beauty plum - aprium and other J plums.

Is it possible to send budwood by mail? Or would it die in transit?


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RE: Can I graft multi fruits to a mature peach tree?

  • Posted by olpea zone 6 KS (My Page) on
    Thu, Aug 1, 13 at 20:29

Murky,

Thanks for the info. The pictures seem to indicate you grafted Euro plums to peach back in 2005, is that right? Have you noticed any compatibility problems after 8 years?

I'm very interested in this because I have plenty of peach seedlings but have been reluctant to graft Euro plums on them. I may have to rethink that.

Like Scott, I had always heard Euro plums are incompatible on peach roots. I'm surprised Raintree puts some of their Euros on peach roots.

ltilton,

I budded 8 peach trees this morning. To me, temperature is the most critical factor in the summer time. I don't have much luck at all with temps above 90F (or below 80F for the high). Normally those temps occur about the 1st of Sept. here, but we have an unusual cool spell coming through, so I thought I'd bud a few trees.

Budded a few more copies of Redhaven, Harrow Beauty, and Lady Nancy.


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RE: Apricots on peach

  • Posted by olpea zone 6 KS (My Page) on
    Thu, Aug 1, 13 at 20:39

Scott, forgot to mention. I'm surprised your apricots are runting out on peach roots. I thought your experience had been that apricots had higher vigor on peach roots (which was also my limited experience with apricots). Could you elaborate?


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RE: Can I graft multi fruits to a mature peach tree?

My first time grafting this past spring...

I grafted Apricot, Aprium, White Saucer & Starks Donut onto a mature nectarine (unknown cultivar) with about 80% success. At least one of every variety took and are all are growing moderately well.


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RE: Can I graft multi fruits to a mature peach tree?

  • Posted by murky z8f pnw Portlan (My Page) on
    Fri, Aug 2, 13 at 0:31

Olpea,

I did the Euro plum to peach grafts April of 2012. I do have a multigraft (actually I think it was budded) from Raintree that is maybe 8 years old. Its the one with Seneca, Early Laxton and Italian Prune. All of the varieties have survived that long and are supporting other cultivars on them as well.

I don't see any evidence of graft incompatibility, but that tree overall isn't very happy. It doesn't get much attention and is in poor and extremely well draining soil without getting enough water in our dry summers.

The Early Laxton portion seems happiest.

Edit: BTW, I was also quite surprised to learn that Raintree used peach seedling as a rootstock. I specifically asked after the fact. I asked Raintree to be more specific than "peach" thinking they were using some sort of clonal peach rootstock.

This was their reply, which is pretty poor: "The European Combo is on generic peach rootstock- it doesn't get any more specific! The combos are more dwarfed by nature, and so do not require a dwarfing rootstock like the Marianna to keep them small."

This post was edited by murky on Fri, Aug 2, 13 at 0:36


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RE: Can I graft multi fruits to a mature peach tree?

Yeah, well Raintree is just being cheap, I think. "dwarfed by nature" my ass. I'm constantly having to hack back my 4-in-1 plum on "peachroot" stock and would have preferred a real dwarfing rootstock.


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RE: Can I graft multi fruits to a mature peach tree?

I'm surprised your apricots are runting out on peach roots. I thought your experience had been that apricots had higher vigor on peach roots (which was also my limited experience with apricots). Could you elaborate?

I have three purchased apricot trees on peach which are very vigorous. They are definitely peach because they put up suckers. I have two recent apricot grafts on peach which are runting. Note that I had peach borers in that part of the orchard and that could be the main cause, but I don't remember bad damage on those two trees. So, I am concerned there is a graft compatibility issue there. The peach seeds are from the same mother tree so it could be something about that particular peach variety for example.

Scott


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RE: Can I graft multi fruits to a mature peach tree?

Thank you very much everyone for your contribution on this topic! Sorry for the late reply.

I am really glad to hear that it's doable.

First of all,Olpea, you are right, my peach tree is not georgia belle. I just googled, georgia belle is white freestone, mine is yellow flesh and cling stone. So how can I figure out what it is? Whatever it is, I am happy that it ripens in July, it adds a month to my peach season. Thanks for the suggestion of growing some peach from seed. I will start now. Any tips on growing from pits, everyone?

Second, I have easy access to apple tree(not sure what kind), can I graft it to my crabapple now or later this year? I know I am not very patient:-). I don't plan to lop off the top of any rootstock tree, just want to add or replace a branch or two. Is this possible?

Third, what kind of plum or apricot tree to get? Murky had good experience with euro plum, Scott with jap plum, what should i do? A quick google search says plum most likely require cross pollination, does it mean I have to graft two kinds of plum? I most likely will buy potted plants so I can get scion/bud in the winter or next spring, is this a good idea? I am aware of the risk of getting mislabeled trees:-). I suppose it doesn't matter what I want, I am at the mercy of local nursery's stock anyway:-(

Mark, I read your post of grafting apple, will ask you more questions later.

I am going to post this before I lose it(like it happened yesterday) , will write later to ask more questions. Hope we can keep this thread alive.

Would like to hear more detail of all your experience, time, graft method,.....I have been reading a lot about about graft on the web, but nothing beats personal experience.

Once again, many hanks to all of you for all your wonderful ideas and suggestions!


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RE: Can I graft multi fruits to a mature peach tree?

  • Posted by olpea zone 6 KS (My Page) on
    Sat, Aug 3, 13 at 12:05

Sara,

I've found peach seedlings are easy to grow. Save some of your peach pits and plant them about 2" deep. Next spring they should germinate and grow. Ideally put them in a row with markers on each end so you can easily weed the row. I've done it this way before.

Mostly I just let the fruit that falls off the tree lie there. We come back and cover it up with wood chips at some point during the season, and the pits naturally germinate the next spring under the peach trees. It provides for plenty of grafting material.

RE: Japanese vs. Euro plums. There is a wide diversity of opinion on the subject.

I removed all my Asian type plums and went strictly to Euro plums. I found Asian plums bloomed too early for me. I like the flavor of Euro plums and also like they are more freestone in general. Brown rot has not been a big issue for me so far, but I do use synthetic fungicide.


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RE: Can I graft multi fruits to a mature peach tree?

olpea gives good advice. Go tasting the plums before you plant them. The difference in taste is wide. I'm removing one J plum because no one here really likes to eat it. Going to graft it over to something else - I keep changing my mind on exactly what.


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RE: Can I graft multi fruits to a mature peach tree?

  • Posted by olpea zone 6 KS (My Page) on
    Sat, Aug 3, 13 at 20:09

"mine is yellow flesh and cling stone. So how can I figure out what it is?"

That can be pretty tough. There are a lot of different peaches out there. My guess is there are probably about 300 peach varieties currently available in the U.S. (not counting heirloom varieties).

The first clue to narrowing down the possibilities is to determine the ripening time relative to Redhaven. My Redhaven should start picking w/in another week here. If Redhaven harvests similarly in Philly this year, that would put your peach somewhere around minus 25 Redhaven.

You could scan Adams County Website and come up with some candidates based on their ripening calendar, but none of the candidates would be conclusive.

Patent information will indicate whether the variety has a showy or non-showy flower, which can further narrow the possibilities. About 1/2 my peaches have showy blooms and 1/2 non-showy.

There doesn't appear to be any rhyme or reason to a showy bloom or non-showy bloom. In other words some white peaches have showy blooms, some non-showy, some early peaches have showy blooms, some non-showy, etc. Nevertheless showy vs. non-showy flowers can help distinguish the peach variety.

Things like the amount of color, size, freeness of the stone can help identify the variety, but these parameters can easily be affected by climate and cultural practices. Color is naturally more intense where fruit is exposed to more sun (the outside of the tree). Size can be related to fruit load, amount of precipitation, amount of nitrogen. Freeness of the stone can change from year to year, or the ripeness of the fruit.

All in all it can be a pretty tough task to determine the variety from visual observations. I suppose the most important thing is that it performs well for you and tastes good.


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RE: Can I graft multi fruits to a mature peach tree?

Redhaven ripening date for Adams Co. is Aug 1st approximately. Philadelphia is likely at least a few days earlier.


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RE: Can I graft multi fruits to a mature peach tree?

I find peaches to be almost weed like..they sprout up all over my yard. I just dig them up and repot them..graft them over.


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RE: Can I graft multi fruits to a mature peach tree?

  • Posted by murky z8f pnw Portlan (My Page) on
    Sun, Aug 4, 13 at 0:28

Sara,

Early Laxton has been an easy to grow European plum that is one of the earliest ripeners and as a bonus, is self fruitful. I like it better than any Japanese plum I've had except for Howard Miracle. (I generally don't like Japanese plums and they are harder to use in volume)


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RE: Can I graft multi fruits to a mature peach tree?

  • Posted by olpea zone 6 KS (My Page) on
    Sun, Aug 4, 13 at 11:20

"Redhaven ripening date for Adams Co. is Aug 1st approximately. Philadelphia is likely at least a few days earlier."

I can't imagine Redhaven ripening that soon in PA this year. We had a really late spring in the Midwest (I thought the East had a late spring as well). Peaches here are running about 2 weeks behind normal.


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RE: Can I graft multi fruits to a mature peach tree?

Olpea-

How are your TangOs doing? What size are they? Mine still have probably 3 weeks to go...


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RE: Can I graft multi fruits to a mature peach tree?

We had a very late spring and cold summer even now. We also have had little sunlight so things are ripening in slow motion.

How ever I picked my red haven about 3 weeks ago. We had 9 days of rain and they all split. they were sweet and crisp. I like crisp peaches and pears.

Cincinnati, OH


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RE: Can I graft multi fruits to a mature peach tree?

I am usually about a day or 2 behind Adams Co dates for their peaches and my Raritan Rose were at usual time-I cleaned off the tree this aft


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RE: Can I graft multi fruits to a mature peach tree?

Eboone-

You're well ahead of me... Here are my

Raritan Rose:
 photo raritanrose.jpg
Tangos:
 photo tangos.jpg

This post was edited by franktank232 on Sun, Aug 4, 13 at 19:12


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RE: Can I graft multi fruits to a mature peach tree?

I am in western suburb of philadelphia, my redhaven is at least a couple of weeks away and we have a really hot summer so far. I remember i started to pick redhaven in mid August two years ago.

Olpea, when you say showy vs nonshowy flower, do you mean it literally or it has a special meaning among fruit tree growers. I think all my peach trees have pink flowers, the so called "Georgia belle" has lighter pink than others, not sure how showy is defined. I guess I may never figure out what it is, I should just called it "the mystic peach":-).

It seems everybody agrees that it's really easy to row peach from pits, can the same be said about apricot and plum? I checked the nurseries here, most of them don't have any fruit trees now. Maybe I can grow all of them myself.


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RE: Can I graft multi fruits to a mature peach tree?

Showy means it has big beautiful blossoms... Reliance has ugly blooms..some like Saturn (donut) has very showy blooms...


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RE: Can I graft multi fruits to a mature peach tree?

Sorry not sure how my post from earlier got reposted

My Raritan Rose is in a very favorable spot between a south facing side of a brick building and a very dense hedge. Always has had some ripen early last week of July and rest first week of Aug

Rest of the Adams Co ripeneng dates are usually a couple days before my few other types of peach trees. I don't have a Redhaven though

This post was edited by eboone on Sun, Aug 4, 13 at 19:59


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RE: Can I graft multi fruits to a mature peach tree?

  • Posted by olpea zone 6 KS (My Page) on
    Sun, Aug 4, 13 at 22:04

Frank,

We are way behind too. I haven't even picked a ripe Redhaven yet. As you know TangO is a week behind Rehaven. Last time I looked my TangOs were just a green as yours.

Sara,

Showy vs. non-showy mostly has to do with the petal size. Also non-showy blossoms are turned more upward in full bloom, whereas showy blooms open up more and are more horizontal at bloom. As is implied, showy blooms are "showing off" - much prettier.

It may seem difficult to visualize showy vs. non-showy at this point, but once you see both types trees side by side, it's becomes very obvious. You mentioned you have a Redhaven. Redhaven has a non-showy bloom.

If interested, below is a thread where this was discussed some.

Here is a link that might be useful: Nakase Brothers mislabled peach tree


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RE: Can I graft multi fruits to a mature peach tree?

Olpea,
You are so right. I didn't get the showy vs. non- showy until this year when my Autumn Star bloomed. They were big petals and pretty. PF 1 and PF 24 flowers are definitely not showy.


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RE: Can I graft multi fruits to a mature peach tree?

  • Posted by bob_z6 6b/7a SW CT (My Page) on
    Sun, Aug 4, 13 at 23:59

I just had my first two and a half TangOs yesterday, which would put me 3 days ahead of ACN. Given that I am further north than them and that it hasn't been a very warm year, maybe I should wait a bit before picking the last fruit. It's a 2nd year tree and I lost some to cracking and subsequent brown rot.

In fact, that's what took half of the first peach I picked. When I cut out the brown rot, I found that the other half was quite tasty and had 14 brix. When I picked another later it was pretty good, with 13 brix. The last one I picked when company was over and wouldn't you know it, it was the worst of the 3 (11 brix and a tad tart).

Here's the 3rd TangO and a William's Pride apple. The apple was also 11 (with partially brown seeds), but later that day I had a severely cracked one with 15 brix, which was pretty good after I spent some time dissecting it.


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RE: Can I graft multi fruits to a mature peach tree?

  • Posted by olpea zone 6 KS (My Page) on
    Mon, Aug 5, 13 at 14:44

You're definitely ahead of us Bob. I checked TangOs this morning, and they are still green (no color at all). Our late spring has us really behind (we had snow here in May).

"Autumn Star bloomed. They were big petals and pretty."

Mamuang,

I agree, Autumnstar does produce one of the most beautiful blooms. I also have PF1 and your right, not very pretty at all. I don't know if you noticed, but my Autumnstar is one of the first peaches to bloom, and PF1 one of the last. The bloom times are only separated by a few days though (and the bloom times overlap).


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RE: Can I graft multi fruits to a mature peach tree?

Olpea,

Yes, I've noticed.

I was a bit nervous if I got the right variety (from Schlabach, so I was quite sure it was) when Autumn Star, a late season peach, started blooming before my earliest peach, PF-1. I've found it's odd since I picked PF-1 around July 20th; in theory, about 8 weeks before AS!!

PF-1 this year were very good. All my friends and family raved about them. I won't know about AS since OFM got to them so early (only had two on a 2 yrs old tree). Bummer!!


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RE: Can I graft multi fruits to a mature peach tree?

Ugh. I lost most of the last TangO due to brown rot. I caught it early enough that I still got a taste, which was very good. I think the ones which rot are the sweetest/ripest...

I didn't have any such problems with PF1 (July 3-6), though a few had worms. My potted peaches (Winblo in particular) appear to be doing better than the in-ground trees. My guess is that with smaller trees (my potted trees are pretty scrawny) there is better air movement. What is strange is that I don't see any insect bites on the potted peaches.


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RE: Can I graft multi fruits to a mature peach tree?

  • Posted by olpea zone 6 KS (My Page) on
    Tue, Aug 6, 13 at 20:00

That's too bad Bob. We've had a lot of rain here the last few days. I've had some problems with what I call skin rot on fruits that have started to color. It discolors the skin but doesn't seem to go any deeper.

Mamuang,

I'm glad you had some good PF1s. I recall the discussions we've had about it's quality. I still think the quality drops off some with the second and third pickings. I think once you get a chance to harvest your Autumnstars you will be very pleased. I ordered a couple more Autumnstars from Adams for next spring. This is in addition to several Autumnstars I already have planted ( I can't graft this one because it's under patent.)


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RE: Can I graft multi fruits to a mature peach tree?

olpea - do you have any experience with the PF 28-007 or 35-007 peaches as a late peach as opposed to AutumnStar? One of the peach specialists from NJ wrote in some NJ bulletins that he thought AutumnStar's performance was too variable, and I have seen you praise it a few times here. Thanks for your input.


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RE: Can I graft multi fruits to a mature peach tree?

Bob, sorry about your loss. I lost everything due to brown rot last year. Never had that problem before, so I wasn't prepared. This year I ,actually hubby, started spraying captan in the spring, we only sprayed three times and the timing was not exactly right, but still it worked really well.

Olpea, thanks for the explanation about showy vs non-showy. It seems all my peach trees are non-showy, I guess I have yet to see a showy flower peach.


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RE: Can I graft multi fruits to a mature peach tree?

  • Posted by olpea zone 6 KS (My Page) on
    Wed, Aug 7, 13 at 15:18

eboone,

I have PF28-007 and 35-007 planted but not fruiting yet. 35-007 ripens the same time as Autumnstar, 28-007 ripens a bit earlier. Autumnstar ripens about +43 for me. Autumnstar is not quite (but almost) as good as O'Henry (which ripens earlier but has some harvest overlap w/ Auturmnstar) although it's a lot bigger than O'henry. I like Autumnstar better than late peaches like Redskin and Encore (both fine peaches).

Sara,
Showy peach bloom:

Non-showy peach blooms:


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RE: Can I graft multi fruits to a mature peach tree?

I found that Red Baron peach got the most beautiful double bloom flower. Very showy. The fruit is delicious!

Tony


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RE: Can I graft multi fruits to a mature peach tree?

tonytran - when does that Red Baron Peach ripen for you?


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RE: Can I graft multi fruits to a mature peach tree?

Tony, that's really beautiful! I only associated beautiful bloom with flowering tree, guess I was wrong.

Olpea, all my peach tree bloom were like your second picture:-(


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RE: Can I graft multi fruits to a mature peach tree?

Olpea,

Glad to hear your vote of confidence on Autumn Star. I figure if it weren't any good, I'll keep it just for its showy flowers in the spring!!!

I was thinking that I'd try grafting AS to PF-1 next year. So, I can't then (not that I'd be any good at grafting peach for the first time anyway).

I've also decided that the last peach I will plant next spring will be Winblo. I think TangO is too rubbery to my taste. ACN does not sell Winblo next spring so I'll order it from Fruit Tree Farm or any other nusery that sell it.


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RE: Can I graft multi fruits to a mature peach tree?

Eboone,

My RB just turned color. I will be harvesting in the next 2-3 weeks in zone 5. They are very tasty and awesome red flowers in the spring. People keep on asking me what it was.

Tony


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RE: Can I graft multi fruits to a mature peach tree?

  • Posted by olpea zone 6 KS (My Page) on
    Fri, Aug 9, 13 at 10:46

Mamuang,

I've got Winblo if you want to try grafting over your PF1 to it. I could send you some wood.


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RE: Can I graft multi fruits to a mature peach tree?

I hope I'm not hijacking this thread but the original topic is grafting to mature peach.

I would like to get some practice with peach grafting. Last year my PF-24C broke due to too high fruit set w/o enough support. This is really not my favorite cultivar so I thought to learn on it. If I take scion from above the tree and graft the same onto the trunk should I use a bark graft (Konrad's modified)? How far above ground should I cut the tree? Is this the proper time to do it?


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RE: Can I graft multi fruits to a mature peach tree?

Olpea-

What is your take on Winblo? Do you grow any nectarines or have you in the past?


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RE: Can I graft multi fruits to a mature peach tree?

Hi Olpea,

I hope I don't double post. I could find the one I posted an hour ago.

I'd like to take up on your offer, please. I can't find your e-mail address. Could you please e-mail me? My e-mail is on My Page.

Thank you very much.


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RE: Can I graft multi fruits to a mature peach tree?

MileHighGirl, I don't think it's hijacking the thread at all! I'd like more discussion of the OP's concerns too.

I like bark grafting because it's straightforward and doable, but when the rind is thick and inflexible it seems clumsy and prone to disease entry. So the question for me is just how big the rootstock branch can be in comparison to the scion. I've had almost no success with stonefruit grafting- one apricot and three plums being the exception- and I need to have as many things working in my favor as possible.

So yes, let's go into rootstock diameter and bark thickness and define just what we're talking about.

Mark


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RE: Can I graft multi fruits to a mature peach tree?

Only way i'll graft stonefruit is through budding... i started yesterday. Don't have a lot to graft, but thought i'd spread some stuff around in case i want to get rid of a tree or whatever ... My buds from last year did very well...plenty of takes, some had a ton of growth this year and some had very little...

Budding is very easy..just use a small/very sharp knife...match the bud size to the wood you are grafting it onto...line up cambium (green with green)...tape it up and rubber band it tight...check it in a few weeks...you'll know if it takes or not.


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RE: Can I graft multi fruits to a mature peach tree?

franktank232,

So I use scion that is growing now, not saved dormant from the pervious year? (which of couse I don't have now)


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RE: Can I graft multi fruits to a mature peach tree?

Yes... pencil thickness or less...

Just practice on whatever you have..apples, pears, whatever... Place a few buds and check them in a few weeks.

One issue i've had is placing buds too high up in the tree... so its good to cut branches way back and get some new wood growing (obviously too late now)...


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RE: Can I graft multi fruits to a mature peach tree?

  • Posted by olpea zone 6 KS (My Page) on
    Sun, Aug 11, 13 at 1:10

Mamuang,

I'll be glad to send you some wood. I haven't had good luck using the email through Gardenweb. Email me through my website: tubbyfruits.com

I have best luck budding in the late summer. For me, temps must be below 90F but above 80F for the high. That generally happens here around the 1st of Sept (although this year we have had a very cool summer and I've done some budding and plan to do some more tomorrow.) The other thing I think is important is to use parafilm on the grafts. I know there are lots of people who graft successfully without parafilm, but I tried it for years and had low takes until I started using parafilm. I pre-stretch the parafilm and make only two wraps around the graft (no more than two). The T bud itself must be wrapped with some other tape before the parafilm is applied since the parafilm isn't suitable to hold bud flaps in place. The parafilm is only used to keep in the right amount of moisture to keep things from drying out.

Frank,

I just planted three Winblo this spring. Last year Adams County didn't advertise Winblo on their website, but they had it available on their inventory list.

I've been afraid to grow nectarines until recently. Everyone I talk to says they are hard to grow. In 2012 I planted 3 or 4 different ones, added a few more in 2013 and have a few more ordered for 2014. One of the ones I have ordered for next year is Summer Beaut. Hman has recommended this one for a long time and it's finally available from Adams.


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RE: Can I graft multi fruits to a mature peach tree?

MileHighGirl, it was difficult for me to understand bud wood for summer budding, but once you do it you'll find it quite clear.

You need dormant buds from this year's growth. As Frank says above, take a pencil-thickness shoot. At the point of attachment of leaves there is usually a new bud on this wood. Slice into the bark just above this point and shave the bud off, holding on to it by the leaf. Voila, you have your bud ready to insert. It's common practice to remove the leaf itself after cutting the bud stick, but do leave the petiole on for a handle. Before the bud is sliced off of the stick you'll want to have its destination prepared. Slip it in, wrap it up, label it and cross your fingers.

The link below is to a video to the process.

Here is a link that might be useful: Allen Cosnow of Nafex


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RE: Can I graft multi fruits to a mature peach tree?

Marknmt,

You need dormant buds from this year's growth.

I think this is what is tripping me up. You mean buds that have formed for next years growth but have not opened yet? IOW this year's growth that will not become a branch until next year?

I think I'm getting it now.


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RE: Can I graft multi fruits to a mature peach tree?

Yes! They're tucked in at the axis where the leaf petiole joins the stem. They really show up on apricot, where there may be three or four to the leaf. The video linked above makes it clear at about 1:10 into it. Consider them the tree's spare parts kit.

The nice thing about these guys is that there will often be more than one dormant bud at that point. Only one should emerge, but if it fails, and the graft has healed over, you may get another shot at it.

Mark


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RE: Can I graft multi fruits to a mature peach tree?

Ok, just found two plum trees, one is Mythley, one is Byrongold. They are on sale, $11 each. Hope they are mislabel this time:-) I looked up, Mythley is self-pollination, Byrongold needs cross pollination. So can the Mythley be the cross pollinator for byrongold?

Can I start budding them to my peach trees now? I have been reading everything I can find about budding on Internet, any tips from your personal experience?

By the way, just discover that my crabapple trees are infected with cedar rust, so I assume I shouldn't try to graft apple to them now, correct?


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RE: Can I graft multi fruits to a mature peach tree?

Yup..its some leaf buds for next year and maybe some flowers...


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RE: Can I graft multi fruits to a mature peach tree?

This is a dumb question, so please don't laugh. Is there always a leave bud between the leave and the stem? I cut off a new peach shoot and am studying it. It seems like there is something between every leaf and the stem, is that the leaf bud? Of course, some of them already have multipe leaves growing out of there. If that is the leaf bud, can I use all of them? How do I pick?

The second question: for T-budding, the size of the rootstock branch doesn't have to match the scion branch, right? it can/should be be bigger than the scion branch as long as you can peel back the bark, right?


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RE: Can I graft multi fruits to a mature peach tree?

Nothing dumb about those questions at all! Those are exactly the details that people get hung up on.

If I understand your first question correctly, then "Yes". There is (almost) always a dormant bud tucked in under the point where the stem connects to the branch from which it grows, and on each branch there will be multiple developed leaves attached. They'll be an inch, maybe two apart, scattered along the little branch. In the video I posted a couple of posts up he goes into how to pick. Even though there may be several buds at each leaf axis only one emerges at a time. Each of the budsticks provides multiple, distinct buds, each of which may be used or ignored.

The diameter of the bud stick, your source of the buds, does not have to match the diameter of the rootstock. The rootstock will often be a little larger, maybe even quite a bit larger; just be sure that the rootstock is well-watered and that the bark is flexible and cooperative. So it sounds like your basic understandings are correct.

Work clean and don't let things dry out.

Good luck,

Mark

This post was edited by marknmt on Sun, Aug 11, 13 at 21:29


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RE: Can I graft multi fruits to a mature peach tree?

Thank you Mark!

The video link you posted is very good, it's very detailed. In this video, when he cuts off the bud from the bud stick, he cuts off some hard wood with it. I remember one of video I watched mentioning that you can peel off the hard wood from the bud. Do you have any opinion about that? Would peeling off the hard wood be better? Fit better into the the"pocket"?


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RE: Can I graft multi fruits to a mature peach tree?

Sara, I gather, from comments made to me here last week (thread linked below) that removing the wood can be useful, especially when working with smaller stock. I got some practice at this yesterday when I finally did those grafts, and I found it a little tricky to pick the wood out- so be prepared to practice a little, bring your youngest eyes and steadiest hands and maybe a darning needle. I managed OK, I think, with just my knife, but then we don't know the end yet!

I think it would be useful for you to post a picture of your tree and let everybody see just what you're dealing with. That would let people speak to specifics and help you gain a clearer understanding of just what you need to do to get where you want to be.

Mark

Here is a link that might be useful: advice on budding


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RE: Can I graft multi fruits to a mature peach tree?

So many of the budding videos and advice articles assume you are working with a rootstock, not topworking an existing tree, which comes with its own set of problems.


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RE: Can I graft multi fruits to a mature peach tree?

Ltilton is completely right and makes a very important point.

I hope that once we get a photo of the tree we can talk about just what to graft to, and how. A 4" branch ain't agonna accept a bud, at least not one I've placed! I'd like for Sara to have watersprouts that she can bend over to horizontal- those can be good candidates for budding, as well as good sources for buds.

But it's once again time for my disclaimer: I have extremely limited experience with stone fruit grafting and budding, and everything I say is subject to correction. Please comment freely.

Best,

Mark


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RE: Can I graft multi fruits to a mature peach tree?

Mark,
Thank you for your help! Here are pictures of my trees, I was having trouble earlier to download pic from my camera.

Here is a potential thin bud stick, I have been practing, I found it easier to work with a thin tender bud stick, even thinner than this. (I work under the magnifying glass.). It's easier to get the wood out. Is this too thin?

Image and video hosting by TinyPic

Here is a thicker bud stick

Image and video hosting by TinyPic
Here is the root stock peach tree.
Image and video hosting by TinyPic

The red circles are the spots I am thinking of grafting to
Image and video hosting by TinyPic

Image and video hosting by TinyPic

What do you think?

I really appreciate your help!


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RE: Can I graft multi fruits to a mature peach tree?

Spent the morning putting apricot buds onto my plum tree, mostly up on the ladder because there is little appropriate low wood. Time and again, either cutting the bud or trying to put it in place, the thing falls to the ground and disappears utterly in the grass.


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RE: Can I graft multi fruits to a mature peach tree?

I need help here. There are a lot of people much more qualified than I to talk about grafting/budding, especially stone fruit, and I hope they respond to your post. You know who you are people, so please speak up.

But to try to answer Sara's specific questions: You're at the point where you might as well start doing it. because from where I see it you're right on track.

If you can work with delicate small stock go right ahead. And while you're at it you might share your magnifying glass set up. But that top bud stick you have looks like a very workable size to me- right now I'm waiting to see how successful I was with some apricot buds that were smaller still. I don't doubt that you can handle that one.

My bigger problem on the apricot budding had more to do with the fragility of the bark I was trying to slip the buds under. Sometimes I wish I had three hands ...

I think the spots you chose to insert the buds makes sense, but I hope they aren't the only ones you do. You can put more than one on a given branch, although you might not keep more than one. I'd try to slip a bud in anywhere I can get the bark to cooperate. If you beat up the bark too much in your attempts to make the graft you can probably just wrap it up with parafilm and let it heal. I've done that several times. Tree always seems to survive my clumsiness.

Make sure the rootstock and the budstick are well watered. I was very careful to work clean on my apricot project- lots of 70% rubbing alcohol from a spray bottle on my gloved hands and on the budstick and rootstock and tools. And from working on small stuff I learned that it was better to rock the knife blade into the bark of the rootstock rather than to draw it down like a pencil making a line.

A couple of posts earlier (8/12) ltilton raises a very important point. By grafting onto branches sticking every which way, and competing with the rest of the tree, your new bud will face some challenges. But before you deal with them you have to have them, and you'll have them only after you get some buds going. I think you're ready, so go for it.

I sure hope people contribute to and correct my observations, and thanks for doing so.

M


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RE: Can I graft multi fruits to a mature peach tree?

Mark, thank you!

This is the magnifying glass I have
Image and video hosting by TinyPic

http://www.amazon.com/Mighty-Bright-Floor-Light-Magnifier/dp/B001D49350/ref=sr_1_3?s=hpc&ie=UTF8&qid=1376787788&sr=1-3

I got it from JoAnn fabric store on clearance sale. It's quite a neat toy. Much easier to work thin bud stick under it.

I intend to put as many buds in as possible. It seems my peach tree has thicker skin(cambium), much easier to peel back than the plum I have.

Ltilton, I don't have your skill to cut bud outside, i can only manage it under the magnifying glass:-( By the way, you are in zone 5, should be cooler than where I am. It is still warm enough for you to do it? It has cool off quite a bit here in the past few days, and I recall somebody said he was only successful when the temp is high. I was a little worried.


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RE: Can I graft multi fruits to a mature peach tree?

  • Posted by olpea zone 6 KS (My Page) on
    Sat, Aug 17, 13 at 22:36

Sara,

I won't comment much on the rootstock you are using because I've never tried to top work a peach tree.

In terms of the budwood, size doesn't matter to me. If the rootstock is larger, I try to use buds that are on thicker budwood. If the rootstock is smaller, I like to use really small buds. I've successfully budded peaches on rootstocks less than 1/4" in dia. 3/16" is about the smallest I've tried.

There's not much room for error with really small rootstocks, and you have to go slower, but they seem to heal in OK.

Most years I prune all summer long. Because of this, peach trees are constantly sending new wood from buds. In other words any wood much above 5/16 will send out new shoots from the buds, so all my budwood tends to be pretty small diameter. Continual summer pruning forces growth on larger budwood.

I'm not an expert on budding, but for my part, I've found temperatures are the major factor to successful takes. Anything above 90F is detrimental. It just wants to cook the grafts. However, the daytime highs need to be above 80F for quick callusing.

Some swear the T-buds need to be sprayed with copper, but I've had 90% takes when the temps are right w/o copper.

I don't doubt good sanitation practices help (i.e. disinfectants) but I don't use them. If my razor blade is dirty, I wipe it off on my pant leg.

I do think it's important to wrap the whole bud with parafilm. I've neglected this step before with poor results. I've also tried to wrap the bud in plastic wrap, but the buds get soggy (again with poor % takes).


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RE: Can I graft multi fruits to a mature peach tree?

Olpea, thank you for the info! Now I remember, it was you talking about the temp and budding success rate. I think I still have some 80 degree days to come, what a relief! I don't have para film, I was hoping I can get away with using plastic wrap. Guess I should order para film.

By the way, I am picking my redhaven now, which means my mystic peach tree is 30 day ahead. ACN table suggest it's PF 1 Flamin'Fury, or Rich May.
My peach fruit is very red, cling stone but not nearly as cling as some nectarine I ate, so maybe semi- cling, and very productive, taste is not as good as redhaven. So you think it's possible PF 1 Flamin'Fury?

Some of mystic tree leaves are turn yellow and dropping now while other peach trees are not.

I asked my husband prune the tree this summer and got rid a lot of straight up shoot. As a result, a lot of fruits are exposed to sun and turned really red and soft. So one part of peach is really soft and rest is still hard. Should the fruit be shield by leaves?

I want to thank you again for spending the time helping amateurs like me, really appreciate it.

Mark, same to you, really appreciate your help.


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RE: Can I graft multi fruits to a mature peach tree?

Olpea, your comments about temperature give me hope. We've been in the 80's daily since I budded my apricots. But what about night time lows? We've been dropping into the 50's and 60's.

And I am encouraged that my failures may have had less to do with sloppy technique/poor sanitation than with temperature. I need to remember that.

Thanks!


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RE: Can I graft multi fruits to a mature peach tree?

  • Posted by olpea zone 6 KS (My Page) on
    Sun, Aug 18, 13 at 20:51

"Guess I should order para film."

Sara,

I started using parafilm in 2011 and saw a big improvement in peach budding. I budded 20 Harken peaches that fall and had 18 takes. It was the first time I had 90%.

Before that I had used plastic wrap (lots of soggy buds) or nothing (lots of buds dried out). I even tried carefully cutting a small hole in the plastic (right where the bud was) to let a little air in, but that didn't work well either.

Last year I budded another 24 peaches (when the weather was correct) and had 21 successful grafts. I also budded about 20 peaches/apricots when the weather was too hot and every single one failed. I budded about 15 peaches/apricots when the weather was too cold and all those failed too.

There is one caveat to the data though. Not only were the failed buds grafted when the weather was really hot, or too cold, but they were also shipped through the mail, whereas the successful takes were not only budded in favorable weather, but the budwood came from my own orchard. So it's possible (but unlikely in my opinion) that sending budwood through the mail makes it less viable.

The reason I think it's unlikely is that I've always had problems successfully budding when the temps aren't right, plus the budwood I got in the mail looked fine.

This summer I've budded a total of 50 peaches and apricots. About 1/2 of those were from budwood in the mail. The weather has been ideal for budding, so I may be able to infer more information from this years results.

One thing I'm doing differently this year is not wrapping the buds with aluminum foil (to keep the sun off). I've actually not used aluminum foil before, but never not used it on so many grafts.

Temps are forecasted to go up to 90F for the next few days, so I may go out and wrap some grafts with aluminum foil after all. In reality I don't know if the aluminum foil helps or not. Scott uses it (or used to) and my wife's uncle grafted hundreds of pecan trees for his orchard and swears by aluminum foil.

I haven't done enough budding without aluminum foil to know if it is a significant help on peaches or not. As a general rule I don't think nurseries use foil for propagating peach.


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RE: Can I graft multi fruits to a mature peach tree?

Sara, I order parafilm from Midwest Vineyard, along with budding rubbers. I'm sure there are other good sources but I like these guys fine, and I think a few others here do also.

I think that if you didn't get parafilm in time you might try wrapping with an ordinary wide rubber band and smearing with a little wax from a toilet bowl seating ring, sold widely as a "Johnny Ring". I haven't tried it but I bet it would work. I do use it on early-season grafts to slow dehydration.

I am getting optimistic about my apricot buds- Olpea's experience gives me hope!

Here is a link that might be useful: Parafilm source


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RE: Can I graft multi fruits to a mature peach tree?

  • Posted by olpea zone 6 KS (My Page) on
    Mon, Aug 19, 13 at 11:08

Thanks Mark,

I've noticed a lot of people use the narrower parafilm. I don't think it makes a difference, but I use the 2" wide parafilm. When not in use, I store it in the freezer because some folks have indicated it breaks down slowly at room temperature.

You'd asked whether nightime lows matter. I haven't paid much attention to nightime lows, but I don't think it would matter. Peach trees callus nicely b/t 80 and 90 daytime highs, so unless there was some extreme low, I don't think the lows would matter.

Re: Grafting supplies

This is a bit of a duplication to the other currently active thread called "Summer Budding" but I'll go ahead and give my 2 cents.

Everyone uses different equipment and most people get used to the equipment they have and keep using it because we're all creatures of habit, so equipment probably doesn't make much difference.

That said, I use disposable razor knives (the cheap plastic kind that you break part of the blade off when it gets dull). I like them because they are about a buck a piece, never require sharpening, yet razor sharp. Convenient, easy and fast.

The disadvantage is that for T-budding, it's a little trickier to peal the bark back (vs. a true budding knife) but you get used to it. I had a budding knife once, but lost it. Since then I've used disposable razor knives.

For wrapping the graft/bud I use rubber electrical tape (rubber not vinyl). It's about 3 dollars/roll at Home Depot. A roll lasts a long time. I tried using budding rubbers but I didn't stay with them long enough to figure out how to tie them to themselves while holding the chip or graft in place. I mostly do T-budding (which would make the budding rubbers easier to tie) but occasionally I do some chip budding or even simple whip grafts for things like apple.

The rubber tape sticks to itself very nicely so you don't have to tie it off. I don't like vinyl electrical tape because if you want to look at your work after a couple weeks, the vinyl peals the bark off if you try to remove it. Plus the vinyl doesn't stretch as much as the rubber. It's just not as nice to work with.

The rubber tape is 3/4" wide, which is too wide, so I cut strips half that wide (using my trusty disposable razor blade). The cut strips are about the same width as budding rubbers. Just before I wrap the graft/bud I pre-stretch the rubber and wrap away. Then I pre-stretch the parafilm and wrap the whole bud two times around with the parafilm. Sometimes I'll wrap the whole thing in aluminum foil to give it a little shade, but I'm starting to move away from that step.

As mentioned, I prefer T-budding for peaches. I don't get quite the results with chip budding. Chip budding requires a little more precision in terms of cutting the pocket and chip to get the cambiums to line up. Plus chip budding has the disadvantage of the chip sometimes wanting to fall out of the "pocket" while trying to wrap it. Or it will move around while trying to wrap it. With T-budding, you just split the bark, slip the bud in. Nothing to line up - quick and easy.

Again most of this is just what you get used to. Find a system and tools that work for you and stick with them and your proficiency will improve.


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RE: Can I graft multi fruits to a mature peach tree?

olpea, what's the advantage of wrapping with tape or rubbers on top of the parafilm? The parafilm wrap seems sufficient to me for budding, as opposed to grafting a scion stick.


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RE: Can I graft multi fruits to a mature peach tree?

  • Posted by olpea zone 6 KS (My Page) on
    Mon, Aug 19, 13 at 14:14

ltilton,

I wrap the T-bud with the rubber tape first, then I wrap the parafilm on top of the rubber tape (covering the whole graft).

The reason I use the parafilm is because it prevents the T-bud from drying out. Without parafilm, the bark on the rootstock right next to the little leaf bud seems to want to dry out and pull away from the bud piece (allowing more air to get underneath there and dry things out even more). Of course the rubber tape holds the bark and bud piece above and below the little leaf bud, but right beside the leaf bud the rootstock bark wants to pull away because I can't tape it as good right there unless I covered up the little leaf bud (which of course you wouldn't want to do).

Some people just use thin parafilm tape to wrap the graft and don't use any grafting rubbers at all. It sounds like that's what you do. I was always afraid the parafilm would break down before the graft healed in. I notice it seems to break down pretty fast on my grafts, long before the rubber tape underneath breaks down.

But if the parafilm tape is working for you, maybe I am doing an unnecessary step wrapping the buds with rubber tape first. Still, I'm kind of reluctant to change my methods now that I've found a technique that seems to give me good results. This morning I spot checked some bud grafts I did two weeks ago. I unwrapped 6 bud grafts and they were all healed in nicely. The last two weeks we've had the best weather imaginable for budding. Perfect temps and lots of rain.


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RE: Can I graft multi fruits to a mature peach tree?

Some people just use thin parafilm tape to wrap the graft and don't use any grafting rubbers at all.

I have found that using rubber (I cut a wide rubberband) is essential to a good graft. I tried w/o the rubber and just used parafilm and my takes were zero. Once I started using the rubber bands my takes were consistently higher. IMO it's so easy to put a rubber band around it that it would seem senseless to try without.


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RE: Can I graft multi fruits to a mature peach tree?

I always use rubber bands. Just buy some wider ones at WalMart and cut them in half...

I still think the major problem with budding is find low enough wood...nothing worse then having grafts take 6ft in the air (which i have plenty of!)


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RE: Can I graft multi fruits to a mature peach tree?

Some people just use thin parafilm tape to wrap the graft and don't use any grafting rubbers at all.

I have found that using rubber (I cut a wide rubberband) is essential to a good graft. I tried w/o the rubber and just used parafilm and my takes were zero. Once I started using the rubber bands my takes were consistently higher. IMO it's so easy to put a rubber band around it that it would seem senseless to try without.


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RE: Can I graft multi fruits to a mature peach tree?

I wouldn't say that I'm having good success with it, since I've never done this before. But I find the rubbers difficult to use and the parafilm so easy, I just fell into the way of doing it.

I agree that in grafting, as opposed to budding the parafilm wouldn't be adequate to hold the graft in place.


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RE: Can I graft multi fruits to a mature peach tree?

  • Posted by olpea zone 6 KS (My Page) on
    Mon, Aug 19, 13 at 22:09

Thanks Milehigh.

I've never tried it but your reasoning makes sense to me.

ltilton,

Please post back how it works for you. Didn't the Nafex guy (on the link posted earlier in the thread) just use parafilm and no budding rubber (can't remember)? If so, I wonder if the sun isn't as intense where he's at vs. CO or KS, so that the sun doesn't break down the parafilm as quickly.


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RE: Can I graft multi fruits to a mature peach tree?

I've always felt that I needed the good mechanical pull that a budding rubber provides, and to keep it from drying out I think it needs to be sealed with parafilm or wax. Parafilm is my first choice because it breathes a little. But it's not enough by itself to make me feel secure! I used the Ace rubber tape this year on clefts and felt like it worked really well.

Rubber tape or bands or rubbers all seem good to me. I think that if you use the wide budding rubbers or tape and overlap thoroughly then the parafilm/wax precaution is probably redundant, but it's cheap redundancy and I do it.

I use wide and long rubbers also because it's easier to wrap them off- you have so much to work with, and they're cheap enough that you can afford to cut off excess.

Like MiHiGirl I'm in the Rockies, but not at a mile high! We're at 3200 ft, give or take a couple of feet. But it's definitely an arid environment: we get about 12-13 inches total precip per year.


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RE: Can I graft multi fruits to a mature peach tree?

I happen to have met Al, he's also a Midfex guy, and I was a member for a while. So I know he's from the general Chicago area, as I am. Not all that intense heat.


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RE: Can I graft multi fruits to a mature peach tree?

marknmt,

I agree with everything you posted. Maybe it is that we are in more arid climates. I received quite a few grafted grapevines from (Grafted Grapevines) and they had dipped the scion in wax. I tried this with my very first pear grafts and it kept the scion so moist that I thought the grafts had taken but just never grew. I dipped the scion in warm wax and let it cool in between dips. This won't work for bud grafts but it will help with other grafting techniques. It does require more delicate handling and is probably easier when not grafting onto rootstock that's planted.


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RE: Can I graft multi fruits to a mature peach tree?

MileHighGirl, I've been following your posts (unless I'm confused -it happens!) since you first began rescue efforts on the old pear, is that right? I imagine that by now you must be nearly awash in fruit. How are things going production wise? Roughly how much of what? I have just two fruitful trees now, and they will keep us in apples and pears for many weeks. I put up apricots and plums when I can get them from others' trees. Tempted to try a peach but we don't really have the room. Same with grapes.

It sounds like you are having a lot of fun- I'll admit to a little envy, no question.

:-)Mark


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RE: Can I graft multi fruits to a mature peach tree?

Ok, so far I have budded multiple plum to one of my peach tree. I have used plastic wrap alone, rubber band plus para film, and plastic wrap (used to tied up the graft like rubber band) plus para film. Will update you all the progress. How soon can I find out whether my graft has survived? And how? Unwrap and see?

Thank you all for all the wonderful advice and lively discussion! I learned a lot!


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RE: Can I graft multi fruits to a mature peach tree?

marknmt,

I wish I were inundated with fruit but this was a bad year for late frosts. I actually sold the property where my grandfather's pear tree was. I never got a good scion take from it unfortunately. I never figured out what kind of pear it was but they ripened in July.

I don't have anything but a regular back yard as far a size goes but I've planted over 50 trees and I probably have at least 30 small fruit shrubs and vines. I got a handful of cherries and gooseberries this year. There is one single Silver Logan peach and one Red Klapp's Favorite pear still ripening. My biggest harvest is the rhubarb this year.

Next year will be better I hope.


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RE: Can I graft multi fruits to a mature peach tree?

That's what I was saying last year, and so far it has worked out. I imagine that soon enough you'll have bushels, and I can see where that could be a mixed blessing, ay?

And Sara, I'm looking forward to hearing success stories. Let the buds go at least a couple of weeks before unwrapping. I prefer to leave wrap on as long as possible, and I think it's great when the sun just takes care of removing it for me!

Good luck.


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RE: Can I graft multi fruits to a mature peach tree?

You can leave them wrapped all winter...although both parafilm and rubber bands break down (from the sun)...


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