I live just north of New York City on a small property (1/3 of an acre) and have a small, successful vegetable and flower garden. My wife and children LOVE berries - I'm still trying to establish a high-yielding strawberry patch but they are agitating for blackberries or raspberries as well. I have a mostly sunny spot alongside our patio - it's 18' by 9', bordered by a stockade fence and a low wall around the patio. Here are my questions:

1) What should I plant - raspberries, blackberries, black raspberries or a mix? I haven't met a berry I didn't like, so assume all are interchangeable for eating purposes - which would give me best yield in my zone and be most appropriate for the proposed spot? Maintenance and disease resistance is also a consideration, and if there's a specific variety I should try then that would be useful as well.

2) When should I plant them? Can I get started in late summer or should I wait until next spring?

3) I've used raised beds elsewhere and am very happy with them - I've seen elsewhere in the forum that this approach is suitable for the various berries. If I want to be able to access both sides of the berries, I need 2'+ on all sides, so I'm thinking about doing two 3x5 beds
How many plants would I put in each bed? Depending on the variety, should I plan on trellising or otherwise providing a structure (fence posts on corners with wire around the bed, perhaps)? I would like this to not turn into a wild bramble since the existing garden is fairly orderly (and my wife is a neat freak). Would it make any sense to put in flashing or some other barrier below the raised bed to keep the roots contained?

I grew up with an enormous bramble in the backyard - it was prolific but the berries were usually tongue-twistingly tart and the canes were full of thorns. We called them boisenberries, but I have no idea if that was what they were. Still, playing in the backyard in the summer was rarely complete unless you grabbed a handful of the berries - I'd love for my kids to have some of those memories.

Thanks,
Mark

Glenn, do the blackberries naturally grow up a trellis or do they need to be woven into it like you do for a tomato?

Any pics of successful plantings in a small area would be really useful.

I second Glenn's recommendation of Triple crown blackberry. They taste great, have no thorns and are highly productive and disease resistant -- probably the most productive fruit in my garden. Like Glenn's, mine have gone berserk with fruit this year. Blackberries need to be trellised and pruned. I have a twenty foot row, with two 4X4 end posts with two wires stretched between them, one a few feet above the ground, the other about 5-6 up. I then tie the canes to the wires as they grow. Some people get into weaving the canes horizontally along the wires as they grow or separating next year's canes from this year's fruiting ones, but this is all too much work for me. You definitely do not want to weave growing blackberries through a cage or mesh as you might do with tomatoes. You will also need to space your blackberries out a bit. Mine are probably a bit too close, but I would say 3' between plants would be a good minimal distance. They will send up new canes each year, on which next year's crop will be produced. You prune off the old canes after the harvest -- some do it in fall, some wait until winter or even early spring.

I am less big on Fall gold raspberries. I have had them for three years now, and this will be their final year. They are pretty productive and very vigorous plants, which in the case of raspberries means they are very invasive. If you plant them in your raised bed, they will end up taking up the whole raised bed in a few years unless you work hard to prevent it. They are delicate and very sweet tasting raspberries -- some like this, others find them a bit cloying; I tend to the latter view. Their main advantage, I think, is that they produce in fall at a time the birds and insect pests are not interested so don't require netting. (I have to net my blackberries to keep off the birds.)

I have not grown black raspberries, but I believe their culture is similar to that of blackberries. I'd check out from the library Stella Otto's book "The Backyard Berry grower" for more information or go to the Cornell University web site and find their on line book on fruit growing. Sorry, I don't have a link offhand.

Chester Blackberry Trellis… bird spikes added a few weeks ago to keep the bird poop off:

Full sized pic: http://image60.webshots.com/760/1/2/56/2779102560015790651gfqzId_fs.jp g

Some berry closeups:

Full sized pic: http://image60.webshots.com/760/1/26/9/2204126090015790651RiqCdi_fs.jp g

I’m not positive that other people train their blackberries so high. But, I’m trying to make the most of my space, and I’ve got lots of berries all the way up, so it must be OK. I’m 6’4 and don’t have a problem reaching up the 8’ for the berries. These are on their 3rd year.

Here’s another posting where we were talking about blackberry trellises:
http://forums2.gardenweb.com/forums/load/fruit/msg0317595330372.html

Here’s a posting where I showed my bad original raspberry trellis, and then the improved version:
http://forums2.gardenweb.com/forums/load/fruit/msg0711580020272.html

As for my black raspberries, I'm finding that they are the thorniest of the bunch. I can't seem to get a berry without getting stabbed. *sigh*.

As you can see, opinions differ on the yellow raspberries.

-Glenn

I had some Chester but pulled them out last year. At least here in Maryland, Triple Crown blew them out of the water in both taste and productivity. Your Chester's look pretty productive, but I think you'd be amazed out how productive Triple Crown are if given good fertilization and soil. (I am told that Doyle are even more productive, but not so good in flavor.)

http://doitbest.com/Sprinkler+Stakes-Bird+Ex-model-SP-10-NR-doitbest-s ku-738897.dib

But, doing a little searching, you can find them elsewhere... here they are again:

http://www.amazon.com/BIRD-X-SP-10-NR-Bird-Spikes-Kit/dp/B0019F8IX6

The very first day I put them up, I had one stubborn catbird who was really bummed out. He tried landing on the spikes for a few minutes, but then decided he didn't like it. He hasn't been back to that perch since. Good luck! -Glenn