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When to collect bud sticks ...

Posted by marknmt 5b (My Page) on
Fri, Jul 27, 12 at 19:49

I know that this is about the time that bud sticks are collected for summer budding, but I don't know the particulars. Is there a certain indicator of maturity that tells one it's time?

Also, if in doubt is it better to collect later rather than earlier? How big is the window? How long can I hold a budstick before using, and what's the best way to hold it?

Thanks,

Mark


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: When to collect bud sticks ...

Mark-

Here in Wisconsin, with this spring being so warm, I've been able to collect bud wood for a good month now. I just try to get pencil sized sticks, but the size can vary. Scott would know a lot more. Only problem I run into is finding a matching spot to place them on the tree I want to graft to. Sometimes finding a match can be difficult and you want them to fit in there so both sides touch cambium...

Here is some bud wood I just took off a Tomcot (i need to use it on some seedlings I want to convert over)... The 1st pic is about as thick as I usually go (and can tell the buds are developed)...the second is probably more typical...or at least for me it is. I'm sure there is a lot of leeway.

Photobucket

Photobucket


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RE: When to collect bud sticks ...

Mark:

You don't store green budwood, at least not for long. It's meant for immediate use. It should be ready when the bark changes from green to brown. I seldom store mine at all. Cut it and T bud.

Frank must be talking about chip buds or something I'm not doing. Because budwood size for T budding usually isn't critical as long as your rootstock is decent size.


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RE: When to collect bud sticks ...

Thanks, Frank! It really brought it together for me to see that picture; I just now took a stroll around the neighborhood to check out different fruit trees and suddenly it became clear. I found a number of sticks ready to use and several which will probably be there soon. Easy to see the progression once you know what to look for.

I appreciate your help.

:-)M


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RE: When to collect bud sticks ...

Thanks, Fruitnut. I take your point about immediate use. And yes, I think Frank's talking more about chipping and it's true, I'll likely just bud it.

I remember three-four years ago bringing grafting questions up here and I think it was you in the discussion that mentioned slicing off a bud from one tree, tucking it on your tongue, and walking it over to the destination tree. Could have been one of the other regulars ... I'm not sure. But I do think you were in on the conversation.

:-)M


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RE: When to collect bud sticks ...

I'm chip budding. You can store it. Put the sticks in a large ziploc with a moist paper towel. I think they can last for a decent amount of time. Scott should chime in, he seems to be the pro at this stuff.

I've never t-budded.


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RE: When to collect bud sticks ...

Marknwt:

I have not chip budded apricots, but I have chip budded apple. Usually I can chip bud Late-July or Early August but with the weird season this year, I suspect I could have started earlier this year.

I collect NEW season's wood on apple. I do not use the earliest growth nor the latest growth but try to take my buds from the middle of the new season's growth. Too new of growth did not seem to work well for me.

I find it best not to store the budwood long. Last time I chip budded, I had great success (90%). The extra budwood was stored in a refrigerator for almost a week for a second batch. The second batch of budding had poor results.

I would agree it is best to use the budwood as soon as possible after collecting.


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RE: When to collect bud sticks ...

I like the phrase from fruitnut, cut it and T but it,..that seems to be the going trend, although I hardly ever do, have done chip in spring, I don't see the point in summer graft for me, the graft stay's dormant and don't do much, I like the spring bark graft with instant results.

Why do you like summer graft?


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RE: When to collect bud sticks ...

Budding is about the only way I"d feel comfortable in trying to multiply my stonefruit. It also gives you a huge window (6 weeks or more?) to get your buds in.

The following year you can see a huge amt of growth and the year after probably fruit...

WHy would anyone graft any other way? :)!


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RE: When to collect bud sticks ...

  • Posted by luke_oh zone 5 NE Ohio (My Page) on
    Sat, Jul 28, 12 at 15:14

Ok, I.m starting to get the bud stick, but I really would like to know about bark slip. I tried a t bud this and the bark was too tight. Can anyone give me some pointers on checking for bark slip. Can I speed up the bark slip? When the bark starts slipping what is the window of opportunity? I don't know why I can't get this budding process into my thick skull. I do much better when someone shows me how to do it instead of reading. luke


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RE: When to collect bud sticks ...

  • Posted by luke_oh zone 5 NE Ohio (My Page) on
    Sat, Jul 28, 12 at 15:15

Ok, I.m starting to get the bud stick, but I really would like to know about bark slip. I tried a t bud this and the bark was too tight. Can anyone give me some pointers on checking for bark slip. Can I speed up the bark slip? When the bark starts slipping what is the window of opportunity? I don't know why I can't get this budding process into my thick skull. I do much better when someone shows me how to do it instead of reading. luke


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RE: When to collect bud sticks ...

Thanks Spartan. That helps. I appreciate every data point. Up till now the only chipping I've done has been in the spring, as a backup to regular spring grafting.

Konrad, I want to bud my Marianna rootstock now because I have done poorly with spring chipping and grafting of stone fruit- callousing can be a problem. I just try to imagine that I'm getting next spring's grafting done in advance!

Luke, "bark slipping" is easy to discern once you've seen it. It depends on the tree being in an actively growing phase (won't happen during dormancy) and fully watered.

Find a tree with some nice, plump water sprouts; make sure the tree is well-watered. Try your budding exercise again and you'll get it.

:-)M

ps: I use the terms "grafting" to refer to cleft, whip and tongue, whip, and bark grafting, usually done in the spring, "chipping", "chip grafting" and "chip budding" to refer to the addition of a single bud on top of the wood, and "budding" to refer to slipping a single bud under the bark. "Budding is usually, but not always, a summer sport, and chipping can be done throughout the grafting season. There is no Olympics for grafting and budding.


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RE: When to collect bud sticks ...

So, not to hijack the thread, but...

I would not be allowed to plant fruit trees in my development, but I do have a couple of different trees on the property. So, my question is, what type of tree do you need to use as a rootstock for grafting?? Is it possible I could graft a few types of fruit tree branches to one of the trees on my property?


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RE: When to collect bud sticks ...

Howelbama, that would be a great subject and it does deserve its own thread. I hope you start a new thread on it.

But briefly, and only in general terms, rootstock and scion have to be pretty closely related- apples to apples, pears to pears, and so on. But many stone fruit (including almonds) are compatible with one another and (so I think, at least) so are many citrus fruits.

:-)M


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RE: When to collect bud sticks ...

Fully watered ...

Not this year!


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RE: When to collect bud sticks ...

howelbama, if there are ornamental pears there, you can graft fruiting pears. I don't know about ornamental plums, but I would guess that you could graft fruiting plums onto them. Also, crabapples can be grafted with other apples.


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RE: When to collect bud sticks ...

marknmt: I've got a couple of what you call "plump water sprouts on one of my apple trees. Do I use the water sprout cutting to graft onto another tree or is the water sprout used as the base for a new graft coming in?
I agree with a lot of the above comments that it is kinda hard to grasp the proceedure without having watched it being done. U-tube has help with this somewhat though.


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RE: When to collect bud sticks ...

Video I first looked at was this one...Does both T budding and chip budding.

link


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RE: When to collect bud sticks ...

Hello Northernmn.

Water sprouts are a convenient size to provide bud wood, and are vigorous, so they supply a lot of buds that can be grafted to an appropriate rootstock. So they are good sources for summer budding. If you wait until they are dormant you can also use them as scions for spring grafting.

But they are also good as rootstocks if they are going to be trained to a more useful direction. If a watersprout is well placed it can be bent over to replace the stock it is growing from, and, it can be grafted to. I think Scott talks about this some. Short story is that you train the new watersprout by tying-weighting-bracing it, and then removing everything in front of it.

Here's a vdo by Allen Cosnow of Midfex that helps a lot on the basics of budding; he's using a potted rootstock whereas we often plan to graft to something on a standing tree, but it's the same basically.

Good luck,

M

Here is a link that might be useful: Allen Cosnow


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RE: When to collect bud sticks ...

Hey guys... Thanks for the video. They were both the Allen Cosnow video ! Very well done.

marknmt: I appreciated the clarification on the water sprout issue.


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RE: When to collect bud sticks ...

Yeah, I was writing my post while Frank was posting his, or I would have left that part out!

Keep in mind that the stuff I write is subject to revision and correction- I still manage to confuse myself on some of this stuff from time to time ...

:-)M


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RE: When to collect bud sticks ...

  • Posted by skyjs z8 OR, USA (My Page) on
    Sat, Aug 4, 12 at 22:28

One advantage, at least here in the PNW where I live, is that there is less disease pressure here in summer than in Spring. We have dry summers and wet Springs. Also, for some reason, slugs seem to kill a lot of whip and tongue grafts but not so many budded grafts. You can also spread your work out over the year, and if you grafted (or failed) in the spring, you can come right back and bud in the summer. Sometimes we get available buds in summer that we don't get in Spring, and if you use only a bud instead of a scion, you are using less of the tree. Also, some plants (sweet cherry, nectarine, peach, apricot) take to budding much better than to w and t grafting.

John S
PDX OR


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