Another picture

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Yas,

Those trees are big enough to graft a more superior varieties on them like: Prok, Yates, Knightville, I-94, Jerry Lehman U-20A, 100-46, 100-47 next spring.

Tony

Tony, under good conditions how many years do you figure trees normally take to reach that "big enough to graft" stage?

CF,

I used to graft persimmon on a small rootstock like pencil size in diameter. They did OK with marginal growth. But now, I like them to be a thumb size in diameter and I bark graft them 3 feet up. They are very vigorous grower on a larger rootstock. My newly bark grafted Rossyanka put on almost 3 feet of growth already on top of a 3 feet rootstock.

Tony

Thanks for the answers, Tony. I have a couple more questions, though. How long (how many years) do you figure it takes to get to thumb size? And if you're keeping the trees in pots meanwhile do you think there's any adverse effect on the root system from keeping them in pots the extra time?

It's interesting that you said you graft 3' high. I was noticing just this year that of the persimmon grafts I did onto potted root stocks this spring all the ones that took I happened to place the graft fairly high like that, whereas all the ones that I happened to place low eventually withered and died (like I've talked about in the thread describing my difficulties with getting persimmon grafts to take and keep going.)

CF,

It took about three years for my persimmon seedlings to get to a thumb size. I also hit them hard with miracle grow every two weeks up until late July. I just want ot size them up for grafting purposes. I plant the seeds in the container the first year and plant them out the second year so I do not have any issue with the deep tap root. I found that persimmon grafts like the heat in the upper 70's to 80 degree. The most important step is to protect the grafts from drying. I have a friend that use sur lac brown wood finish and paint the scion to protect it from drying and it works fine for him. I used a IV tegaderm type or grafting tape. Good Luck.

Tony

Thanks again, Tony. I'm thinking more and more that the actual mechanics of my persimmon grafts isn't my problem. I have grafts, for instance, that I did in April that are still alive but haven't hardly put on 1" of growth. I have another graft that quickly put on over 12" of new growth then a little over half of that growth shriveled up and died. It's still alive but the remaining leaves have looked prematurely ready for winter ever since and there hasn't been any new growth for a couple months. And a healthy majority of my persimmon grafts start to grow after two or three weeks, which makes me think the problem isn't an initial drying out; most of them just suddenly whither and die 2-6 weeks after that. Temperature might have something to do with my issues, particularly whether grafts get off to a strong start, although I've grafted persimmons from early to late, and there doesn't seem to be any timing that avoids the problems (except perhaps grafting onto potted plants that I can put in controlled temperature locations.) I'd suspect compatibility issues, but I've had similar problems with native (including local) and Asian cultivars, although probably more so with the Asians. Curiously, though, I only had success on my potted root stocks with Asian and AsianX scions, whereas all my full successes in the field were with native scions. What further complicates the incompatibility theory is that other people seem to do much better grafting all types of persimmons onto D.v. The only things I can think to improve on for next year (at least for grafting onto in-ground trees) are to protect all my grafts in row cover "bags" to protect them from the psylla and to even more carefully and obsessively rub off competing growth daily.