The Arbor Day picture doesn't look like yours. Also harvest date and description sound off. I'd order one but don't want something that's only good for cooking.

Here is a link that might be useful: Arbor Day Damson plum

What color is the interior of your plum? It may be something common like Santa Rosa. Could you post a pic of one cut open.

Your fruit looks like the Santa Rosa picture on DWN below. The dots aren't sugar speckling I don't think. More like lenticels. But SR can be very sweet and is usually tart at skin.

Here is a link that might be useful: DWN Santa Rosa

This post was edited by fruitnut on Sun, Aug 3, 14 at 15:21

MrsG...I've only ever eaten them fresh. I wouldn't even know how to incorporate plums into cooking other than making Jam etc.
I think Harvestman is probably right...I think these may not be true Damsons. The taste profile is worlds apart from the typical Damson description. Hahaha...I always thought everyone had their descriptions mixed up.
I will say however that these plums are extremely aromatic. I know that sounds funny in the description of a plum, but it's true. Everyone always remarks on how good they smell. Because of that they would probably make great jam. They are so incredibly juicy though that I'd guess cooking with them would be challenging.

Gonna do it right now fruitnut. Hold on a sec.

juicy

reddish amber and somewhat translucent

another pic

Yeah fruitnut...I probably wouldn't take my chances with ADF. They seem to be a crap shoot at best. I am very thankful to them for this tree though. It is easily the best and most prized fruit tree I have. My wife and children love them as much as I do. Seriously..in my opinion no other plum stacks up against this one. I know that sounds braggish and narrow...I don't mean it to. I have other fruits that I grow that are less than spectacular. This one though...wow!

It does look like santa rosa on the outside, but way off in flesh color. I should add that this was the first uear to develop such a roundish shape, prior to that the were more ovular like Damson, and still the smaller plums are that shape.

One final thing: The Damson is described as self fruitful. I don't know how many other plum types are, but Methley is the only other plum I have and (being Asian) should not be able to pollinate this tree...right? Yet this tree still crops well. I wonder if it could be a sport of Damson? There are no fruit trees around here at all and I don't see any ornamentals close by either.

I think your plum is an Asian possibly Santa Rosa. The flesh color can depend on growing conditions. Usually redder and sweeter under the best growing conditions. Methley, I think, would pollinate Santa Rosa. Arbor Day probably buys cheap trees from nurseries that have too many so a common plum like SR is a good bet for a mislabeled tree.

After researching this it seems as though my plum is Prunus Domestica of which Damsons and green gages are members of . According to Wkipedia there are variants within this group and some are larger (the size of mine), oval or rounded and very sweet or tart and astringent. Attached is a flesh photo I found online. The Prunus domestica is on the left (looks exactly like mine) and comparing to a prunus salicina (or something like that) on the right.

Me is starting to think maybe ADF got it right after all.

Prunus domestica (sometimes referred to as Prunus ÃÂ domestica) is a species of flowering plant in the family Rosaceae. A deciduous tree, it includes many varieties of the fruit trees known as plums in English, though not all plums belong to this species. The greengages and damsons also belong to subspecies of P. domestica.

Its hybrid parentage is believed to be Prunus spinosa and Prunus cerasifera.[2] This is the most commonly grown plum at least in Europe, and most prunes (dried plums) are made from fruits of this species.

Characteristics[edit]

Typically it forms a large shrub or a small tree. It may be somewhat thorny, with white blossom, borne in early spring. The oval or spherical fruit varies in size, but can be up to 8 cm across, and is usually sweet (dessert plum), though some varieties are sour and require cooking with sugar to make them palatable. Like all Prunus fruits, it contains a single large seed, usually called a stone, which is discarded when eating.[3]

Plums are grown commercially in orchards, but modern rootstocks, together with self-fertile strains, training and pruning methods, allow single plums to be grown in relatively small spaces. Their early flowering and fruiting means that they require a sheltered spot away from frosts and cold winds.[3]

For a full discussion of the fruit, see under the main article Plum
The subspecies cross easily, so that numerous intermediate forms can be found: their sweetness and tartness may vary, their colors varying from bluish purple, to red, orange, yellow or light green.

Subspecies[edit]

Greengages

Mirabelle plum

The European Garden Flora recognises three subspecies, though scientific studies favor a more fine-grained separation:

P. domestica ssp. domestica ��" common plums, zwetschge (including ssp. oeconomica)
P. domestica ssp. insititia ��" damsons and bullaces, krieche, kroosjes, perdrigon and other European varieties
P. domestica ssp. intermedia ��" egg plums (including Victoria plum)
P. domestica ssp. italica ��" gages (greengages, round plums etc.; including sspp. claudiana and rotunda)
P. domestica ssp. pomariorum ��" spilling
P. domestica ssp. prisca ��" zibarte
P. domestica ssp. syriaca ��" mirabelle plums

Looks to me like a dead-ringer for prunus domestica insititia.. Maynard Damson has precisely the looks of this plum.

Fruitnut: I think ADF got it right. It seems there is high variability in Damsons and perhaps the tarter more astringent ones were selected out for their culinary attributes. This just happens to be the very sweet more rounded variant. I'm all but certain it is not Asian for a whole host of reasons ranging from the pollination question to the fact that I've never seen an Asian plum exhibiting the bluish dusty hue as is present on this plum. At...

If anyone would be interested in this plum I wouldn't mind sharing scion wood. Investigation will be needed however as to it's grafting compatability. Being prunus domestica (I feel reasonably sure of this) it should have compatability with any European plum rootstock...right?

It just seems to me I remember reading that Damson's were almost kinda like their own species. That's been a long time ago, I might be remembering that wrong.

I found the page that the previous photo is on and the photo caption indicates both are Japanese hybrids, which looks to be the case.

There are a number of Japanese-American plums with red skin and red flesh. JA plums are notorious for their bitter skins. The one in your pictures look like the Satuma plums that came off my tree.

Here is a link that might be useful: Plum �

Does look like Santa Rosa and the timing is right. Your photo from on-line is inaccurate IMO and the left plum looks to be a Satsuma. I think they're both Japanese in that picture.

E plums (Domestica means European because that was home for the original classifiers) turn from green flesh to amber if they stick on the tree (Stanleys drop off before they get what I consider ripe) and they are more syrupy, instead of being like water balloons as are Japanese plums-except the water is highly sugared.

I know of no red-fleshed E. plum.

You can't reliably identify fruit from pictures and keys unless you are expert at it, and even then it is dicey.

Santa Rosa is a wonderful plum when tree ripened and completely fits your description. It is a world class fruit.

I grow Damson and have gotten the trees from two different sources that supply commercial growers, they are an extremely distinct plum in their appearance. Fully fruited they are the most beautiful sight imaginable with branches just strung with their small fruit (I don't thin them). It is such a stunning shade of purple that I'm sure any designer would have the accurate word for. It is a bluish purple.

H'man they are not both Asian. On the left is prunus domestica. Prunus domestica is not Asian...it is European. The plum to the right is a Japanese hybrid.

ny rockfarmer: the photo was from a website about Japanese hybrids, but the photo was showing the comparison between the Japanese plum (prunus salicina) and prunus domestica...if you look you'll see the caption right there. Save the photo and it will be in the file name.

I did however see plum flesh photos of Japanese varieties whose flesh was similar though. Problem is..nothing else fits.
I think in all likelihood it is prusus domestica institia. This group includes the various forms of Damson of which this tree was labled and of which there are both flesh photos, skin photos, tree photos, multiple descriptions and characteristics description that fit AND support it's labeling.

Do I think it's possible it's labled wrong? Sure
Do I think it's likely? No I think there is enough evidence to support it's being a Damson variant, possibly Maynard or something similar.

No, the fruit on the left is not European. At least not like any of the scores I have seen and tasted and is spot on what a Satsuma looks like. Why do you believe the source?

Euro plums are much harder to grow as you get further south and below Jersey most are Japanese types.

I have almost 50 years experience growing Japanese plums but only started cultivating E's when I started my business in NY almost 25 years ago.

Wikipedia is a pretty good source for many areas of information but it is not the domain of fruit knowledge.

>>JA plums are notorious for their bitter skinsAgree,..good indicator!

Doesn't look like EURO or Damson

One thing I can tell you, on the east coast E.plums are sponges for aphids and leafhoppers while they leave J. plums alone. Without sprays to knock out these pests J. plums continue to grow vigorously throughout the summer while E. plums, most years, grow vigorously in spring, stall in summer and surge a bit at summers end.

Ok H'man you say it's a Japanese plum and I'll yield to your experience. Santa Rosa it is.

One thing though: did you or rockfarmer read this?

The subspecies cross easily, so that numerous intermediate forms can be found: their sweetness and tartness may vary, their colors varying from bluish purple, to red, orange, yellow or light green.

The greengages and damsons also belong to subspecies of P. domestica

Typically it forms a large shrub or a small tree. It may be somewhat thorny, with white blossom, borne in early spring. The oval or spherical fruit varies in size, but can be up to 8 cm across, and is usually sweet (dessert plum), though some varieties are sour and require cooking with sugar to make them palatable

The above alone is plenty of evidence to me that in order to be Damson's, they do not have to look just like the Damson plums you purchased from two different sources. It clearly states there is high variability among them.
Whoever supplied this info to Wikipedia clearly knew what they were talking about, there is simply too much scientific detail and well organized writing for this to be a contribution from some schmuck.
If you had a black Labrador H'man and I a chocolate Lab, would that then mean my dog was in fact, not a Labrador? Since it doesn't look like your's?

Someone asked "Why do you believe the source?" My reply would be why do you disbelieve it?

At any rate, H'man says it's a Santa Rosa, rockfarmer a Satsuma. In either case it's a Japanese plum..so, I digress.

No, I wasn't saying it was Satsuma for sure. I'm not familiar with all of the red varieties. I was saying just saying it looked similar. However, I'm on a different computer now and it doesn't look as dark, so maybe it is Santa Rosa. Replicating true color and rendering color consistently is always a problem with cameras and computer equipment.

As harvestman said, the ripen date is another clue. For your area, I don't think Satsuma would be ripe until another week or two anyhow.

If it's Japanese rockfarmer it's a Methley. I think ADF may have mixed up the order. I ordered just 1 Damson due to it being self fruitful and two Methley plums.
Possibly they got the quantities and the types mixed up. I just found photos of the Methley that looks very similar on the outside and a spot on match of the flesh inside.
If this is the case, I have no idea what it's pollinator would have been. Maybe they're partially self fruitful. If so, this explains a lot. It would explain why the 1 tree I'd previously thought a Methley had such tiny plums on it. It would also explain why this plum hasn't set a heavier fruit load. It makes a lot, but the tree is pretty huge and plums usually go crazy. Still don't know why the other has not flowered or fruited?
I'll take a pic of the other tree tomorrow and see if you guys think it is perhaps the real Damson.
I'm thinking this is what happened, and boy do I feel stupid if it is.
I think you and H'man can probably chalk one up for the experts.

Methley outside

Methley inside. This is pretty much exact. Last year it was nowhere near as red as this year, more an amber color. Like H'man said, I think this year was better for them. They are definitely sweeter this year. The outside color in the above photo isn't nearly as deep blue/purple as mine, but I picked them ripe. The lesser ripe plums look just like those pictured.

When you really want to master something you can read a great deal and cover a lot in a short time. Highly dedicated novices tend to want to exaggerate the grasp they obtain from this part of an education (that was me) out of eagerness to really understand the subject of their passion.

These are grafted trees we are talking about, not seedlings. The vast, vast majority of Damson's being propagated in this country are clones of a single tree- large nurseries are restricted in their source of material to assure virus free material, for one thing. Also, in commercial fruit production, there is a strong desire for certain uniformity in a specific variety, although apples often have numerous mutations patented of the same variety- usually in pursuit of more "attractive" or highly colored appearance.

Mislabeled trees, especially coming from a second party source, are extremely common. I've often received such trees, even from highly respected and reputable nurseries.

There are many varieties of gage plums and all I've seen have green flesh that turns to amber when fully ripe. Same thing for every prune plum I've ever seen. I've only experience with the Damson sold by commercial nurseries in the U.S,. but I very strongly doubt you can find a description of one in reliable literature that mentions red flesh. This is a quality I've only seen in J. plums such as Methely, Satsuma, Queen Rosa and Elephant Heart.

Santa Rosa, as grown here, has more a rosey colored flesh, and is a bit streaky but more amber than red.

I agree that the pictures do look more like Methely, but they are about done here and I expected you'd be a bit ahead of me in MD. Santa Rosa's are beginning to ripen now. It is also a higher quality plum by most tastes than Methely, but a tree ripened plum is a tree ripened plum.

Methely can be better (subjectively speaking) when it is not fully ripe because it almost becomes bland when left on the tree to the point of being soft and fully colored. The flesh actually turns red before the skin.

I was a bit dubious about the id of these fruit when the OP said they were sweet. Damsons are pre-eminently culinary plums. There are many cultivars - 'Damson' is a general description, not a cultivar. They are relatively small, a really deep purple, almost blue, and have a lovely bloom. Most are elliptical rather than round.

Here is a link that might be useful: Some Damson stuff

Unfortunately, mislabel trees are too common. I've been a victim a few times already. It can be most shocking and comical with casual growers that lack experience and tend to ignore details.

My grandparents claimed the huge maple in the back yard was Sugar Maple they bought and planted themselves. After I started making maple syrup and became familiar with maples, I looked at their tree and quickly identified it as NOT a Sugar Maple. It was just a common red-silver hybrid, which are one of the most common trees in the NE USA. They insisted they bought a Sugar Maple, which would have been more valuable for its hardwood (someday).

My father told me one of the apple trees on their property is Macintosh he bought and planted. When I got older and became more aware of apple varieties, I pointed out that the apple from that tree is nothing like a Mac. To this day he refers to that tree as a Mac. I don't know if he is in denial or trying to make me laugh.

H'man..I hope I don't come off as someone who thinks he knows everything. I don't think that at all and am always first to point that out. Perhaps I'm a bit reluctant to let go of ideas that get in my head, I've always been that way about everything.
The point you made about nurseries being limited to stock (assumingly imported) because of virus issues is a very good one. I never thought of that and you didn't mention it before now. So although a multitude of varieties could conceivably be available it is more likely that (as you said) they originate from a single variety. That variety having undergone testing etc to prove it was virus/fungus/insect free before being allowed entrance...right? So as to not introduce a foreign blight of some sort, thereby somewhat limiting the available choices to those that are saleable or in high enough demand as to pay their own way so to speak.
I'm going to head down back with my wife and grab a few photos of perhaps the real Damson and will post here in a bit to see if you guys think this is it. I've been thinking it was no good due to the tiny plums. I thought maybe it was a seedling that had possibly grown up from the rootstock that ADF sold me.
Another thing I hadn't considered was ripening time. These little plums aren't ripe yet, some just showing a tinge of purple forming at their shoulders, so that lends itself to being European in nature (moreso)...right?
I know that mislabeling happens, of course it would. I've many times grown tomatoes from seed and by the time I planted them out I had them all mixed up. Wife and I would really like a certain tomatoe, but would have no idea what it was...just that it was one of the dozen types we had sowed. Anyway...I'm rambling now.

How about a picture of the wood (made me think of it in the other post and the Mexican Plum post).
At least here there's a huge difference in growth pattern between Japanese and European.

Appleseed, as someone who does come off that way I can assure you that you do not- that was not my point at all. I was talking about getting information by way of "authoritative" sources without the benefit of enough experience to really contextualize that info.

An example would be the statement that there are many Damson types. There may be throughout the world but that doesn't mean that there are a lot of strains or types available in America. If you had a lot of experience ordering trees from a range of nurseries this fact might have occurred to you but it's not the type of thing you will find in Wikipedia.

If I might add to the discusison, that is definitely not Santa Rosa, at least not the SR that I grow. SR has a totally yellow flesh here and only gets darker as the fruit ripens. Here, Methley will not produce anything that looks like your pics. I think it might be something else.

H'man...good point about contextualizing information that you've read. That has actually happened to me before in other venues. I read ALOT...in fact; too much. If I only could retain just a fraction of it, I could have a doctorate...in something..lol.

I completely got what you were saying about the single Damson variety. Plums are something I've actually read very little about anyway. A few bad peach trees put a bad taste in my mouth concerning stone fruit a long time ago.

rayrose: the pics I posted were indeed Methleys...I made certain of it and that they weren't just somebody "borrowing" a pic from Google images for an article and using the wrong pic.
My own Methley here never had that bright red flesh until this year. Seriously, it was almost completely amber with the very slightest hint of pink. As H'man said, the red color I guess develops in good years. These plums were always good, but this year "over the moon"!!
I've heard folks on here say (don't remember who, may even have been you...I dunno) that Methley was garbage. I'm no stone fruit connoisseur but have eaten a ton of store bought and never had a plum anywhere close to this sweet, juicy and just awesome.
I ordered Methley at the same time as the Damson rayrose, and that coupled with all the other data, photos etc leads one to the most logical conclusion. In all likelihood it is a Methley.
(jokingly) Of course less than 24 hrs. ago I was defending it's position as a strain of Damson...so what the Hell do I know...lol?

As I've posted before, methley does not do well in the south, but if that's your methley, then it is definitely a northern plum. It still looks like something else to me.
Butt what the heck, ENJOY.

Granted they're early young tree/tiny fruit, but my Santa Rosa had one plum with red flesh last year (nothing this year, but they were still small before they fell off or got taken by an animal).
That red fleshed plum was very good, the yellow ones were hit and miss.

My previous Santa Rosa was too long ago to remember and an equally small sample before borers got the trees.

No, Methely always gets deep red flesh for me if it stays on the tree long enough. I was at a site today with a full sized (20' spread) Mehtely with probably 300 pounds of over ripe fruit on it. Deep purple red all the way through,soft and terrible tasting at this point- it was good a week ago. Now it's bland except for the bitterness it's developed. Never knew a plum could develop bitterness by being too ripe- most plums just keep getting sweeter until they rot.

It's a 100+ tree orchard for one 4-person family. A lot of fruit goes to waste (or deer) unless I can line up a volunteer to pick and deliver to a food pantry.

I just picked pretty much the last of mine this morning H'man...left maybe a dozen that were not ripe yet. My tree isn't far from a 20' spread, but I'd guess we got about 50 lbs. total.
This is the same tree with the bark splitting issue. I'm guessing that, coupled with no pollinator is responsible for the light fruit load. Although 50 lbs. is a lot. To be honest in another day or two I'll have had my fill for the year.
Is there any benefit (taste wise) to allowing them to completely tree ripen. We have to pick them every day and when picked dead ripe you really only have a couple days to consume them. They also drop very easily when nearing full ripe.

Hman's commnets are why I find it hard to believe that you have a methley plum. I've never known anyone that grew methley, that raved about how good it tasted.

rayrose...who knows...it came from arbor day..so I suppose it could be anything. I'm getting ready to make jam right now.

Not sure how long ago you got this, but their current selection is slim and would suggest Methley.

Here is a link that might be useful: Arbor Day Fruit Trees

Rayrose, my customers often rave about Methely- it is a very good plum as grown here (most plums are very good when harvested at the right time). When I tasted those overipe plums I thought maybe that was why you hated it- you waited for it to hang on the tree too long. But it's probably more about the conditions there. I'm sure you've tried it at various stages of ripeness. But then again you don't thin and if ever a variety required thinning to achieve decent quality it is a heavy set Methely.

Appleseed70, you might want to read this old thread.

Here is a link that might be useful: Mislabeled Peach Trees

... and post #3 of this one.

Here is a link that might be useful: fruit trees from arbor day foundation?

Hman
Methley is a light setter here, so there's nothing to thin.
It's also a very small plum.

rockfarmer: I know they're not the best (or even close to it) nursery around, but at the time I paid I think $6.98 ea. for all the trees I've got from them...now their prices are as high as quality nurseries. As far as the varieties available they are exactly the same now as they were then (4-5 years ago).
I would never recommend ordering from them, but contrary to reports here my experience with their customer service was very positive and I have a great plum tree from them. So all in all, I probably got what I paid for. Also, ALL the free trees I got from them (little tiny sticks) ALL grew and grew well, they were also ALL correct in their identity. I gave a free red maple they sent me to a buddy and it has since grown to a beautiful tree. To buy a red maple of that size and quality ( size it is now) from a good nursery would cost you at least $150. So, they have a place and I think generally try to do a good job.

Rayrose, it would appear to be the equivalent of an entirely different variety as grown there compared to here, although I take it we are talking about a single tree at a single site.

Hman, It does sound like two different varieties, but that happens. I know other people, in my area, that have had the same results as I have. In the south, methley is a substandard plum, while obviously in your area, it's does much better. You could probably say the same thing about Santa Rosa. It definitely performs much better in warmer climates.

Appleseed70,

I'm interested of the plum scion woods offer from this post. I planted a Burgundy Plum this spring with a few branches that I can take scions before next spring if you're interested.

Great looking plums!

Different climates matter a lot. Methley is a very highly rated plum in the PNW.
John S
PDX OR

tomIL: Tom that sounds fine to me. Remind me when the time is right in case I forget. I can send you whatever you like. Tom, I later discovered that this is a Methley plum. It was all in this thread and another. I just wanted to make sure you didn't miss that. But yeah...if your interested I'll be happy to ship you a few. It's a fabulous self fertile plum that sets nice crops...best plum smell ever, sweet as it can possibly be.
Do you have any apples Tom? If so, what varieties?