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Strange world of paw paw's

Posted by persimmonbob 6b (My Page) on
Wed, Aug 8, 12 at 15:53

Because the extended drought in my area my paw paw's have dropped most of their fruits.I desided to take a look at the wild ones in my area, some are just getting ripe other tree's still firm. The ones that i picked starting to get soft.I do not know how much they weight but the sizes:5 1/2 x 2 7/8, which are bigger than my nursery bought ones.I just ate one and i don't why i grow them in my yard.


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: Strange world of paw paw's

Bob,
Nice looking wild pawpaws. Those are about the same size of my mango and sun flower pawpaws. You are very lucky to have the best of both world.

Tony


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RE: Strange world of paw paw's

Bob, I think you are very fortunate to have wild pawpaws that taste better than named varieties. Here locally, I have a friend that raved about the wild pawpaws growing all around the lake. Now that he has tasted some fruit of named varieties, he has changed his mind and doesn't eat the wild ones anymore.

Benny


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RE: Strange world of paw paw's

I too have tasted some random wild pawpaws that tasted every much as good as the touted varieties.
Two thoughts:
One is that the pedigree of the pawpaw is just one of a number of factors that determines the quality of the fruit, and other factors such as the weather, soil, ripeness may be just as important. Your wild pawpaw may have grown under very favorable conditions which trump the influence of pedigree.

The other is that not everyone senses the bitter off-tastes of some pawpaws that the named varieties are less likely to exhibit. For these people for their own consumption from the perspective of taste there may be no real reason to choose the named varieties over wild ones. There may be other reasons though, such as size, consistency and seed to pulp ratio.


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RE: Strange world of paw paw's

Also keep in mind that pawpaw development is still in its infancy, were apples and pears have been being improved for centuries. Me and my family have been hunting wild pawpaws all across Iowa and Missouri for years and I have to say there are some that are tasty and some that are spitters. There are some that are fleshy and some that are seedy also some that are large and some that are small. We have a pawpaw orchard in its infancy with all the Peterson varieties as well as KSU Atwood, Davis, Overleese, Sunflower, NC-1, Mango, PA Golden, State Champion, soon to have Summer Delight (Cliff England's new pawpaw)and a new variety discovered recently by us called Halvin. I think there is still a lot of potential in the wild pawpaws, even potential that could make improved varieties even better. If you think about it, all pawpaws except for the Peterson varieties, KSU Atwood, and NC-1 were simply the result of someone's findings and some of those still take home the taste test prize before pawpaws that had years of selective breeding. Overleese is in most of Peterson's Breeding, so if we are only one generation out from Overleese we are not far from wild pawpaws. I think we all need to be active in hunting this magnificent fruit that is native to our country and share our great findings with each other without patent restraints. There's a lot of good quality fruit out there right under our noses.


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RE: Strange world of paw paw's

Treebird,

Maybe next February we should swap some pawpaw and persimmon
scionwoods. I don't think you have your email listed on your page.

Tony


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RE: Strange world of paw paw's

Treebird,
It's awesome you've located exceptional trees. Many factors come into play when big fruit develops but pedigree is potential. Nice paw paws.
"Your wild pawpaw may have grown under very favorable conditions which trump the influence of pedigree"
Unfortunately, conditions wont push development past what it's genetically capable of. The conditions may allow it to approach it's potential, but not surpass it.
Maybe the wild paw paw hasn't reached it's potential.
I better head out to my favorite patch and look see. I usually am not out searching for them until October.


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RE: Strange world of paw paw's

It is my understanding that a lot of peterson strains origanated with the Arkansas natives because of the size.
The article i believe was written by somebody from L.S.U.
The ones that i picked were 11.2 oz and 9 oz.There was another on the tree that is bigger because it is a single. There were other tree's in a different area's that are smaller in size,but they were in open area's.The tree's in that area were much taller like about 25 feet.


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RE: Strange world of paw paw's

When we discovered Halvin the tree was 40ft reaching clear to the canopy. the diameter was 6 inches across the trunk and the tree was roughly 30 years old. Grafted it is a very vigorous grower as stated by Cliff England. the smallest fruit ever found on the tree was 8.5 oz and the more average more common sized fruits were 12 to 14.5 oz. Fruits are 5 to 6.5 inches long and very plump like a mango with the sweetest pineapple taste and only anywhere from 8-12 seeds per fruit and this tree is growing in shade in conditions were it has to compete with the forest for nutrients.


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RE: Strange world of paw paw's

I might add that last fall i planted a lot of seed's from my collection in area's with the wild tree's.I will not see the results because of my age but never the lest maybe somebody will,hopefully.


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RE: Strange world of paw paw's

Well bob keep us posted on your progress. I really want to get out there and hunt this year but me and my wife have another little one on the way next week. Might get out there with my older kiddos and walk some new ground to find new discoveries. Like I said, there is still elite genetics out there somewhere.


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Treebird and others members today after leaving 4 paw paw's in a dark drawer i ate 2 for lunch and i must say it is hard to improve. They are buttery,orange intereor,moist,strong mango/muskmelon flavor, no after taste.Treebird if you happen to be in my neighorhood,stop by and i show you the tree's and you can take cuttings.


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Wish i was in the neighborhood bob but you seem to be in zone6. I am always up for new discoveries. Earlier this summer we noticed some new pawpaw hunting ground that could look very promising hopefully maybe will come across some good finds but HALVIN is going to be hard to beat. Why don't you post a picture of those pawpaws next to a dollar bill bob? Id like to check out your find. I will try to post some pics of our find this fall so everyone can see. I would imagine size would be smaller this year because of the drought here in the midwest but I'm not happy unless we get buckets of pawpaws every year.


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Speaking of strange...
Im planting 3 pawpaw trees in the Spring, I'll probably order them from One Green World. I've been thinking about pollination, and is it possible that the first blooming tree will never get fruit due to the Female part showing first then the Male part? The first female part would never have a male flower from another tree to produce fruit with.

Seems like a waste. Anyone have this problem?

-Eric
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RE: Strange world of paw paw's

Bob, Treebird, Benny,and all,

I did a cross of the Mango and Sunflower pawpaws 2 years ago and 2 seedlings survived. I named them Sunman. Hopefully in another 2 or 3 years I can see how good they are. If they are good then I don't mind to distribute them.

Tony


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RE: Strange world of paw paw's

hey megamav, I recommend getting your pawpaws from Forrest Keeling Nursery, you'll save about $7-$9 a tree and they will be the same size (4in. pots). You can have success either route but Forest Keeling trees have tons of roots which is the key to success in establishing pawpaw trees. They also have the Peterson Pawpaws and many others. Englands Orchard and Nursery also is a good place for a variety of trees that not many other nurseries have. About the pollination, you should be fine if you plant at least two different varieties of pawpaw. Some people will plant one grafted variety and allow the tree to sucker up beside it. "Sunflower" is reported to be self pollinating, I cannot test this out with "Sunflower" because I have pawpaw trees everywhere. Tony, that sounds like a cool cross, I know Cliff Englands cross "Summer Delight" has "Sunflower" as the parent. It's the earliest ripening pawpaw tree on his farm. I have one coming next year. Im excited about breeding pawpaws, persimmons, and hickory someday, but a lot of this takes a lifetime. Hopefully being 28 I will get to see some great things come about in the future.


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RE: Strange world of paw paw's

megamav, I understand your question about the pollination issue, but it's not a problem. Unlike, say, an apple tree, which blooms all at once, paw paw blooming is spread over a few weeks. That is, a single tree will open blossoms over a 2 or 3 week period. So, as long as the blooming period of your two trees overlaps (I don't think that varies much between cultivars), most of the flowers on both trees will have a chance to set fruit.

Alex


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RE: Strange world of paw paw's

treebird just a different picture.Good luck with your findings, i just eat another one just now and it taste just like the other ones.Normally they ripened much later,so drought and no rain does make a difference.
Scotsmith i do not know how old you are but my experimenting are just about over. I can only handle so much anymore. I don't want to be a prisoner of mine succes.I already grow too many things now.I admire yours a lot.Keep up the good work!!!


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RE: Strange world of paw paw's

Hey bob that looks like a nice pawpaw! The shape looks just like Halvin but Halvin is a little larger. Are all the fruits on the tree similar in size? How many seeds are in the fruit pictured? Does this tree produce the largest fruits in your area? We really need to get together on this forum and post photos of our greatest finds in the wild this year also of domesticated cultivars on our trees to do comparisons. If we all get together we may be able to start a breeding project from wild pawpaws. Definitely needs to be a collaborated effort on the part of many on here. I have 40 acres to play with and will get some more root stock to graft to this upcoming year.


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RE: Strange world of paw paw's

treebird,

Thanks for the information, I've put in an inquiry on the FKN website. Im interested in Susquehanna, Shenandoah and NC-1.

-Eric
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RE: Strange world of paw paw's

Those are all really great choices Eric. Potomac is the largest of the Peterson varieties but Neal Peterson tends to favor Susquehanna. The two pawpaws that I've found to have the most beautiful healthiest ornamental foliage are KSU Atwood and Susquehanna. The leaves have a nice thicker substance.


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No,there are a few bigger ones but they are singles higher up the tree.Those were also more rounder.I have 4 places that are close to the road.The 2 tree's in question are on one side of the road and a bunch more on the opposit side.These places are about a mile from my place.From what i understand that the Kings river about 17 mile from me has quite a few around the banks,but i don't go that far.
I posted pictures from these tree's last year and they are the same as this year.I don't know what is higher up the steep hil,but iam not going to find-out,it looks a little rough.


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RE: Strange world of paw paw's

Holy canoli! Nice fruit! After my walk through pawpaw central I've seen a lot of fruit set singly and in clusters of up to eight. Very small, on the puny size. Wild, but I've pulled out nice ones out before. Green. I'm wondering if they'll still get bigger.


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RE: Strange world of paw paw's

That's great bob, Id like to see the others. Are all these bigguns from a particular tree bob? If so then I would use some colored vinyl electric tape and tape around the trunk so you know where to get the scion wood from in February. We can call it Persimmon Bob.


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RE: Strange world of paw paw's

I have about a dozen different cultivars, and so far, the best tasting fruit actually comes from a seedling. The fruit on the seedling is larger than the nursery varieties, its more precocious, more vigorous, and tastes like a cherimoya as opposed to just the usual artificial banana flavor of the other pawpaws.

I really don't think the available nursery cultivars are really bred thoroughly enough to make them more worthwhile than seedlings.


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RE: Strange world of paw paw's

Well axel, as I stated earlier pawpaw development is still in its infancy even with the 30 + years Neal Peterson and Dr. Pomper poured into the development of this fruit. When it takes 10 to 15 years to get a fruit from a pawpaw seed we are only one, maybe two generations out from natural found selections from the wild. There's a reason why Neal Peterson took his first bite of a WILD pawpaw and saw the fruit every bit as equal to a peach or a pear and thought to him self,why isn't this fruit being grown commercially. I STRONGLY believe that there are wild selections that have the potential of being far greater than even captive bred pawpaws. Now don't get me wrong I respect the efforts that have been made to improve the pawpaw and the people who have poured their lives and energy into it, but in all theory this is something we can definitely work together on as even individuals with our own natural selections from the best of our wild findings. Even Neal Peterson himself has told me that we are not very far out from our progression of developing the pawpaw. It's going to definitely have to continue on with the next generation, another reason I am against patent restraints on this fruit. Pawpaw lovers are out there and the real lovers get out there and not only grow them but have their own trees in the wild where they pick their favorite fruits. There are many I know who have named cultivars and still favor their favorite wild fruit over the named cultivars.


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RE: Strange world of paw paw's

Regarding pawpaws from Forest Keeling nursery, I can report my observations of the growth of the 2 plants I obtained last fall. They have put on 6 to 9 inches of growth with leaves small to moderate size with a yellow green color at this date. This may sound poor compared to what one might expect from one's own graft made on an established plant in which 2 feet of vigorous growth could be expected at this point in the season, but compared to the growth I've seen on pawpaws from other nurseries, this is a good result, and while the plant's progress next year will be even more telling, I can so far recommend this nursery for those not willing or able to graft their own plants.


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RE: Strange world of paw paw's

I planted a Susquehanna from Forrest Keeling in the fall of 2010. It grew about 7 inches in 2011, this year it has grown about 11 inches, and is actually still growing. It's total height is 30", and has about 12 flower buds that will bloom next year.

Alex


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RE: Strange world of paw paw's

Check out Clifford Englands new pawpaw "Summer Delight" he said the fruits are hitting the ground the end of July and first week of August. It is supposed to have a great flavor too.


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RE: Strange world of paw paw's

This is the pawpaws from the Kentucky State Champion tree. It's called "State Champion" or "Big Daddy".


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RE: Strange world of paw paw's

treebird,

Have you look into Jerry Lehman pawpaws. He has 2 new crosses and each won the best pawpaws contest two year in the row that beat out Neal Peterson'pawpaws. I am cheering for him this year to see if he can win third year straight with a new cross.I am glad that Jerry has a passion in fruit breedings.

Tony


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RE: Strange world of paw paw's

Ironically I spoke with Jerry Yesterday. He is going to send me some wood out next year. Yes I am very excited about putting his varieties on trail here in Iowa.


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RE: Strange world of paw paw's

I had seen on the Ohio pawpaw festival site that Jerry Lehman's pawpaw had been the largest one there, but the best tasting competition was won by an Overlease.


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RE: Strange world of paw paw's

Creek,

Jerry Lehman Won the Largest pawpaw at the contest two year straight. The best tasting was Overlease.

Tony


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RE: Strange world of paw paw's

Overlease was originally found in the wild and it still wins first place for taste. Just goes to show again we don't know what's out there. Jerry did send me some pics of his first place for size pawpaw. Very impressive (1lb 12oz)!


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TB,

1 lb 12 oz, that is a biggie. My two varieties from Jerry Lehman did well this year. Hopefully, when they produce I can have a shot of crossing it to Overlease or my own cross Sunman for the best taste.

Tony


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RE: Strange world of paw paw's

I can see the headlines now. 2015 OHIO PAWPAW FESTIVAL. SUNMAN WINS BOTH SIZE AND TASTE.
Good luck, Tony.


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RE: Strange world of paw paw's

If all goes well I plan on using Jerry's 275-48 to cross with either Potomac or Susquehanna. His 275-48 is going to be the staple in my pawpaw breeding for size and quality. This 275-48 is actually a tetraploid. Jerry was trying to develop a seedless fruit but it just so happened that it didn't work out that way, instead the crosses he developed into tetraploids had really large fruit and they had plenty of seeds so the experiment that worked with seedless grapes and watermelon failed with pawpaws so hopefully I can use the pollen from an extremely large fruit like 275-48 and breed it to another large quality fruit with very few seeds. All we can do is see what happens. Let me know how that experiment works out Tony. I'm also going to get some seeds from Jerry's selections and see what happens from chance polination.


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RE: Strange world of paw paw's

I have heard that very large pawpaw fruit sometimes have a ripening issue, where the first part of the fruit to ripen is getting yucky before the whole fruit is ripe. Can anyone confirm this?

In my own experience, I have eaten a couple of 16 ounce pawpaws, and that is a lot of fruit to eat at one sitting. About the same as two good sized bananas. For ny own use, I'd like something in the 12 ounce range.

I wouldn't expect tetraploid pawpaws to be seedless. Tetraploid watermelon are not. Rather, triploid seeds derived from a tetraploidXdiploid cross yield seedless fruit. I assume Jerry tried crossing his tetraploid pawpaws with diploids?

Alex


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RE: Strange world of paw paw's

That's what I meat to say there alexander "triploid". oops. You are correct. He was attempting to create a triploid with seedless fruit. Sunflower was the seed parent of 275-48. As for larger fruit taking longer to ripen, I thought this might be true but I spoken with others who verify it is not. Cliff Englands Summer delight is bigger than PA Golden which is one of earliest to ripen and it ripens before PA Golden. The biggest factor I notice is whether or not the tree is in full sun or not. Pawpaw trees planted in full sun as opposed to those planted in shade will start dropping fruit up to 2 to 3 weeks sooner than those planted in shade. I think the pawpaws original growing zone has a lot to do with when the fruits will be ripe too. Jerry Lehman is in Indiana and his 275-48 is the largest fruiting tree that we know of and it ripens fully there.


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RE: Strange world of paw paw's

Pawpaw 275-48


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RE: Strange world of paw paw's

Jerry Lehman's pawpaw, winner of 2011 biggest pawpaw at the Ohio Pawpaw Festival.


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RE: Strange world of paw paw's

Treebird,

Jerry Lehman also had a cross called VE-20, large, early, and very good. You should ask him for the wood and cross it with Neal' varieties down the road. My VE-2O is about 2 1/2 feet tall.

Tony


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RE: Strange world of paw paw's

Thanks Tony, I will look into that. I need to do more talking with Jerry. It seems there are more people who have his selections than I thought but I need some more opinions from others on fruit flavors and quality too, so as many people that have his selections, feel free to post your taste test and quality opinions. I'm interested. Thanks


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RE: Strange world of paw paw's

Treebird,

I made a typo. It is VE-21 not VE-20.

Tony


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RE: Strange world of paw paw's

Well we all make typos sometimes. Jerry Clarified that for me today. He will be sending me wood for VE-21 as well as a few others. The nice thing about a pawpaw orchard are that you can space your trees fairly close together and fit a lot on an acre. I space mine 12 ft by 20 ft. I'm leaving a row for Jerry's best breeding for my future crossing. I'm trying to avoid mediocre stuff because there is no point in wasting space. I do have acreage on the north side of the house I'm going to use for my top quality wild pawpaw discoveries. All my known varieties are planted in the south orchard. It's really good to have a diverse genetic pool to work with.


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Jerry L. 275-48 was a cross between Prolific and Sam Norris-15 (tetraploid). I hope he will cross this to Overlease or better tasting varieties for excellent in size and taste.

Tony


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Yeah, I thought he had told me 275-48 was a cross between Sam Norris-15 and Sunflower. The prolific would cause the taste to be poor I'm sure. Prolific and Taytoo are probably the worst tasting of the known varieties. PA Golden is sometimes bitter also but I agree Overlease is one of the best tasting for sure.


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RE: Strange world of paw paw's

TB,

The 275-48 winner last year was 28 oz. Majority of the pawpaws with good size are around 12-14 oz.

Tony


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RE: Strange world of paw paw's

Dewar Bob,

Having needed to HAND pollinate my cherimoyas(Paw Paw relatives) for many years, I think you should give this a try with shy bearing paw paws. Here ion L.A. we have very lazy pollinators, fungus gnats is what they look like,and they don't like budging from the petal of one flower to another, so this year I'll try the cherimoya method, knocking fresh pollen off with tiny paint brush into a jar, which I keep in the frig. Cherimoya pollen lasts a long time fresh this way, at least.

BUT ...you have GOT to have at least one more Paw Paw -- cuz unlike the cherimoya, these babies are self incompatible...need trees with different DNA with which to do your crossing, if you are into that sort of thing.

Good luck,

Guy


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RE: Strange world of paw paw's

I'm located in Keokuk, Iowa and have seen tens of thousands of paw paw trees during my lifetime, 99.9% of them wild. The photo of a cluster below is from a wild tree in Keokuk. I'm a past member of the Paw Paw Foundation, and know Neal Peterson and Iowa's Tom Wahl. As a wild food instructor, I've done programs in New York, Pennsylvania, Michigan, Wisconsin, Minnesota, Iowa, Illinois, Tennessee, West Virginia, and North Carolina, making Kentucky State University's Paw Paw Ice Cream recipe on several occasions. Would enjoy the opportunity to meet Treebird and take some photos that I might share with others during my wild food programs to promote interest in paw paws. My email address is MikeKrebill@aol.com, and I hope Treebird will contact me.


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RE: Strange world of paw paw's

Axel sc

You said you have a seedling that tastes like a cherimoya. Do you know the parentage and would you be willing to share any scion wood?

Dave


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RE: Strange world of paw paw's

Hi mike. How are you. I live in Southwest Iowa. You can get my email from Jerry Lehman tell him you have my permission.


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RE: Strange world of paw paw's

Nice thread. I am new in Pawpaw. Planted Pawpaw seedling many years ago. Now it is ten feet tall. Have another overlease from Hiddenspring just start to have flower bud.

I want to graft the big tree with named variety. Anyone can spare some scionwood such as PA-Gold and NC-1 would be appreciated.

Thanks.

Greentree


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RE: Strange world of paw paw's

I have mostly patented varieties for my future breeding program here in Iowa. I send all my Halvin pawpaw scion wood to Clifford England at Englands Orchard and Nursery. He would be the man in charge of marketing our best selection we've discovered in the wild. I do know of some other superior wild selections we've come across in the wild based on flavor and early ripening but none have the size of Halvin. I could get you some wood from a few of those if you are interested but it would be next year. One tree we call "side winder" has very sweet fruit with no astringency and ripens the end of July. Very creamy texture and pleasant after taste. It is the first tree we go to in the summer. fruits range from 4 to 6oz.


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RE: Strange world of paw paw's

Treebird,

Thanks you. I had contact Clifford a month ago and he was out off stock of pawpaw scionwood. So, I contact Sheri Crabtree at Kentucky State University and got some scionwood (NC-1, PA-Gold) last week. If you can send some Halvin next year, that would be great.

Thanks.

Greentree


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NC-1 is an excellent pawpaw, very large too. PA gold is early but I find the flavor to be not much different than the average wild pawpaw. Overleese is one that has been around for quite some time and its flavor still rivals many newer selections. I would say about 10-15 years down the road I will have some controlled crosses that will blow others out of the water. None will be patented, I just would want a little notoriety but believe that if something is great, it should be shared not restricted. I will see what is available with the Halvin scion wood. Last year there was quite a drought so the wood was very limited this year. Hopefully we will get plenty of rain for 2013.


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RE: Strange world of paw paw's

Thanks for the information. I will keep posted about how my grafting develop. Any idea how to graft a big pawpaw tree? I can chip budding for small tree.

Thanks.


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RE: Strange world of paw paw's

You can do a cleft graft on a larger limb. It is pretty simple and i've never had one fail. you can also chip bud on a larger tree as well. For me the trick to all my grafts taking is using parafilm. After the scion is put in place I wrap it completely with a thin strip of parafilm and it never dries out and the buds pop right through when they are ready. Good luck


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What is the timing for doing cleft graft? I have done pear and apple 100% successful when its blooming in the spring. Based on Sheri Crabtree's Youtube, chip budding is best done when the leaf is fully grown.

Right now my pawpaw just starts to leaf out.

Thanks.


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If your tree is beginning to leaf out then you should be ok to start grafting. I know a few grafters who don't care for chip budding pawpaw. Simple whips work good for me, but whatever gets the union to take is sufficient. In your case, with a bigger tree, you have a better chance of success with anything. Good Luck.


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Hey Tonytran, I was wondering if you could chime in for me on this thread. I know you have some of jerry's pawpaws grafted and I was wondering if you had any scion wood for 275-48. Jerry ran short this year and couldn't supply me with any this year and he said he's not sure if he will be able to down the road either because he has a big wholesaler buying it all. I cant find any wood anywhere and trees are unheard of right now. I know its not the best tasting but I would like to have it for size genetics in my breeding program. Thanks


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treebird,
I think your whole Pawpaw project is a wonderful thing.Thanks,Brady


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Thanks Brady, It's going to be years in process. Hoping the old timers who've been at it for years will pass the torch on to a young enthusiast such as myself.


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RE: Strange world of paw paw's

As indicated in the comment stream, the fun part of trying to make the paw paw a commercially viable product is the development of new varieties. However, I believe that in order to make this fruit commericially viable, more research needs to be devoted to shipping methods that can inhibit the ripening process. For example, using a "green bag" seems to delay the ripening process for bananas. If a system can be developed that will accomplish the same objective for the paw paw, it might be commercially feasible to grow and market paw paw fruit.

I have planted two paw paw trees, Shenandoah and Susquehanna from Forrest Keeling, and I hope to experiment with some methods for inhibiting the ripening process in a few years. I encourage others who grow the fruit to do the same.


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RE: Strange world of paw paw's

Treebird,

I have not receive Jerry Lehman 275-48 scionwood yet this year, I guess if you are not getting it then I am in the same boat with you. But I do have persimmonbob scions from the large pawpaw above. I also have a couple of my own crosses, they are medium in size with large cluster of 4 to 5 fruits and taste different than the usual. They are More like a cherimoya in taste and early ripening around the end of July. I am going to cross them with Peterson's varieties in the near future for taste, size, and early ripening.

Tony


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Might be a possibility Charlie but I feel that pawpaws no matter what the breeding strategy, will never be viable enough to ship far distances or sit on grocery store shelves for any period of time. It's just not the nature of the fruit. They are tricky fruits. There is only a small window of time and the flavor can very so much at different stages of ripeness. I know some old timers who like to wait till the fruit turns black to eat and by then to me they are horribly bitter. If they are too green then they will make you queezy in the stomach and eating too much at a sitting period can make you extremely sick to the point you will never want to eat another again. My limit is 3 medium sized fruits a day. Pawpaws best chance for promotion is getting more people interested in growing it for local consumption only. Processed frozen pulp is the best option for grocery store sales in my opinion. Even Cherimoyas can go bitter over time. In my opinion also cherimoya taste similar to a pawpaw but less slimy or custardy in texture and a little more juicy with grit cells like a pear, white to cream flesh instead of yellow like a pawpaw. I actually like pawpaw better and think pawpaw needs to be placed above the taste of cherimoya. Cherimoya is also seedier than pawpaw. With pawpaw the seeds are in the center with solid flesh surrounding and cherimoya has seed throughout the whole fruit that you have to pick through. I'd take a perfectly ripe sweet custardy pawpaw over a gritty cherimoya any day. I do think work can continue to be done in breeding sweeter, less seedier, and thicker skinned fruit that can ripen over a longer period of time. Tony thanks for chiming in, I wanted to get a hold of 275-48 this year but nothing but failed attempts. I may be getting some wood from another of Jerry's varieties hopefully it will pan out. It seems these big nurseries grab up all the good stuff to make money and push out the people who are truly passionate about growing and breeding fruit trees. Oh well, maybe someone out there some where has 275-48.


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RE: Strange world of paw paw's

I eat both wild and grafted pawpaws (mainly Peterson's, but also "Mango," "Overleese" and a few others). I am ~300 miles north of the southern boundary of pawpaw's natural range (the "triloba" species in any event) and have easy access to thousands of wild trees (mainly in Congaree National Park, where small-quantity non-commercial pawpaw collecting is allowed). Despite being well within the natural range and commonness of the wild tree, I find pawpaw to not be very easy to grow in a big pot or yard planting and the wild ones are quite variable in fruit quality (but, so far, just up to pleasantly OK, with some not very good). In years of foraging no tree here was ever observed to have an abundant crop and some years are almost without pawpaw fruit. No wild fruit has come close to the quality of the better grafted pawpaws, and the grafted ones need some care here (deep mulching and partial shade and several years of established growth start to make them "look happy). Pawpaw selection and growth for the deep south seems still to have much to learn. I did save one large-fruited type (albeit seedy) just before it died in the wild.

I think that we should have a centenary celebration of the famed 1916 Journal of Heredity's national contest of "find the best pawpaw." Both wild selections and enthusiasts yard finds and experiments should be encouraged.


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RE: Strange world of paw paw's

Treebird,

Thanks you.

I listened to your advice and did four cleft grafting. All are taken and now the smallest one has 4 big leaves.

I did about over 20 chip grafting. Most of them were taken, then a week of rain destroyed most of them. It looks the parafilm are broken and the graft wound are not healing well.

Next year, I will try more grafting and may try whip grafting.


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RE: Strange world of paw paw's

Great to hear that jianhuay. I never have been a fan of chip budding and probably never will. I vote it as the least successful method of grafting, unless you are able to provide just the right environment for it to take. I guess it's ok if you want to attempt to get as many grafts as you possibly can from a stick of scion wood. For grafting onto large rootstock, the cleft graft is king and you will get the most growth out of your scion because there is more cambium over the scion. Success is better for that reason. On smaller rootstock the whip is my graft of choice, take your time on this one though. It isn't difficult to accomplish but success depends on how well you line up your cambiums together. I wouldn't bother notching your whips to do a whip and tongue. I found this process can do more damage to the cambium while trying to line things up and shove the two scions together. I do recommend that when you do a whip graft to strengthen the union with vinyl tie tape first, then go over your scion with the parafilm. Good Luck :)


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RE: Strange world of paw paw's

I went to check on the original "Halvin" pawpaw tree today to see if there was any fruit on the section of the tree I let grow out in hopes to taste the yummy fruit again. I couldn't believe it there was a ripe cluster of two hanging within reach. The fruits dropped into my hands when I touched them. You are looking at over two pounds of fruit here. The flavor was still outstanding! Sweet pineapple flavor with no bitter aftertaste.


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RE: Strange world of paw paw's

  • Posted by skyjs z8 OR, USA (My Page) on
    Sun, Sep 29, 13 at 22:31

T-budding is said to not be successful on pawpaw. I have had less success with chip budding pawpaws than other fruit.
John S
PDX OR


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RE: Strange world of paw paw's

Halvin Pawpaw sweet and creamy cut in half. Again this is a lot of fruit!


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RE: Strange world of paw paw's

For there being over a pound of fruit in this photo of a single Halvin pawpaw, there's not much left but a little skin and only 6 seeds. I think this would make some people envious, especially if you were breeding for hardly any seed and someone goes out in the wild of Iowa and finds the perfect pawpaw.


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RE: Strange world of paw paw's

Treebird, what would be the chances of getting a few seed from the Halvin pawpaws? I would like some to start as rootstocks and possibly grow out to see what they make.


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RE: Strange world of paw paw's

fusion_power,
Ha ha,I was thinking the same thing when I saw those seeds.Nice looking fruit treebird. Brady


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RE: Strange world of paw paw's

Well Fusion, these seeds I am saving for my own planting because there are only 6. Thanks for the compliments though. I might be able to have some seed next year. I should have wood available next spring if anyone is interested but it is limited.

This post was edited by treebird on Tue, Oct 1, 13 at 3:17


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RE: Strange world of paw paw's

Hi guys, have been following the thread here for quite some time and am so happy to see other pawpaw enthusiasts really getting cranked up about breeding pawpaws. I am originally from Iowa but have only now in my present Colorado Springs location tried growing pawpaws, and with some reasonable success. I have many of Cliff England's selections including Halvin and Summer Delight. They are real strong growers compared to the Petersen varieties I have. Cannot wait to see how Marie's Joy turns out for me here. I was not sure how well the plants would do here in a semi-arid climate, but so far so good. I have learned the hard way that they must have shading a full two years, and then only about a half day of sun. For shading and some protection I have the pawpaws planted in between peach trees. Seems to be a good mix. Want to eventually find the best cultivars for here through my little experiment. Bought some of the latest seed from Cliff England and am anxious to see how they do too.


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RE: Strange world of paw paw's

Here in Sacramento I'm trying to get others rolling with Pawpaw growing...going to my first Scion Exchange tomorrow and taking some scionwood from 2 mature trees I have. They are unknowns, 1 bought from a gardener 10 years ago and another one brought home from my Uncle's place in Indiana. Hopefully our current drought won't affect them too badly because the past couple years I got close to having fruit set...I will be hand pollinating this year to insure better chances...I've also got seeds growing indoors and last years seedlings planted outside... so by the time I retire I hope to have plenty of trees to be grafting and taste testing! Thank you everyone for posting about Pawpaws!


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RE: Strange world of paw paw's

I'm 28 and I'm trialing as many good varieties as I can here in north Florida! I've got 40 or so 2 year old seedlings I'm grafting onto this year that will be going in the ground. I've also got another 40 of one year old seedlings from select crosses. If any of you guys like treebird or persimmon bob have any good seed for me to try or any scion wood to graft onto that would really help me. There is NO data down here in Florida and as adaptable as this fruit seems to be I have no reason to believe I can't find a variety other than mango that will produce good crops. I've got acreage to experiment with and time on my side (God willing) and I too want to share findings, especially with my warm weathered brethren .


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RE: Strange world of paw paw's

I had a good success last year of grafting pawpaw. This year I need to work more on my large pawpaw tree. Can anyone provide some info where can I get scion wood of Wabash or any Peterson variety or KSU-Atwood?

Thanks.


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RE: Strange world of paw paw's

I am also looking for a source for scion wood of any good variety. I have big trees that I can graft onto.

I have only had 1 fruit, in 2010, and it was small but tasty. More seed than meat.


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RE: Strange world of paw paw's

Maybe try England's Nursery for scions.

Here is a link that might be useful: nuttrees.net


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RE: Strange world of paw paw's

Would anyone have a piece or two of scion wood for the pawpaw 'Halvin'. I will gladly pay any related costs. I had ordered a graftling of 'Halvin' about a month ago. What arrived today was a different cultivar. Sadly England's informed me that they wouldn't have any more 'Halvin' trees available for 2 years. I would greatly appreciate a scion to graft myself. Thanks.


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RE: Strange world of paw paw's

Unfortunately England's Orchard and Nursery may not have "Halvin" available for a few years. Based on what I'm hearing from several people who've contacted me with questions, he has supposedly been sending all his scion wood to China and Korea. Hope is not lost though. I would contact Nolin River Nursery in advance for grafted trees next year. I am completely out of scion for 2014 and may have some next year in very limited quantity.


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RE: Strange world of paw paw's

I didnt get my Halvin pawPaw either. I ordered it 4 months ago and He confirmed they had it. When I contacted him, I was told that their computer crashed and so they missed my Halvin order.. :( Doesn't sound right!


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