Why is there so much scratching and clawing to refute global warming? The vast majority of scientists DO think it is probably occuring. That shouldn't even be the major point. The point, should be that we should be striving quite hard to reduce pollution in as many ways as possible. We don't need to point out why do we? Yes, there are people who think all animals should not be killed if at all possible. I'm sure they appreciate the other point of view now. I guess the thread was doomed to end like it did. You can flame me now too.

Gary

There is another thread in here somewhere talking about getting rid of gophers. They made a "bucket of death" out of a 5 gallon bucket half filled with water.
Thinking I needed something larger for ground squirrels I bought a 32 gallon plastic trash can. Filled it about half full with water, threw a few sunflower seeds around the outside, covered the surface of the water with more sunflower seeds, and put a dead tree branch from the ground to the top of the bucket. The theory is they will climb the branch, reach for the seed, fall in and drown. I set this up last evening and by noon today there were 3 dead squirrels in the bucket. At this rate the whole colony should be wiped out within a week. It was $30.00 for the trash can and $10.00 for the seed. Very effective for a $40.00 investment.

For living among a heavily treed area filled with deer and the occasional moose passing through, I'd have to consider myself fortunate for the insignificant amount of damage that has been done. I use those motion activated sprinkles and they've worked great and also human urine used around the bounday plantings where the sprinklers are set too far back to properly protect.

I have but one squirrel, though it never ventures into the yard, as the dog would surely go berzerk if it were to be spotted! If it were to be eating my plants and fruits would I "get rid" of it? ... probably ... though, honestly I absolutely hate killing any creatures ... heck, I won't even step or a spider nor kill a bee that might make it's way into the house. Though, recently I had popped off a sapsucker, a beautiful but very destructive bird. It made me sick doing so ... BUT, when a small bird can kill a big beautiful tree, that's where I draw the line. We all must do what we feel is best for our situation. I'll probably get attacked here for what I had done, but I'm strong enough to take it ... lol ...

One more message to all the bleeding hearts who are crying for the squirrels. This is a thread for advice on getting rid of ground squirrels. If the thought of that offends you stop reading and go watch the 700 club on TV.
I have 12" diameter holes going under my trees. There was a 20 foot manzanita tree with so many burrows under it that it fell over root ball and all. Manzanitas are a protected plant in California and this state has the death penalty so the squirrels are simply being executed.

"The people with truth on their side don't launch into attacks having nothing to do with the subject like you do."
"brandon7 is convinced he has moved a whole zone warmer although the rest of the world is having spring frost dates moving later."
Man you just burned yourself badly! ROFLMAO

"I highly doubt you've done any such research."
I'm not a bit surprised. You seem to have a real problem with reality.

"The farce is that warming is as drastic as claimed, it's global, it will be catastrophic, it is caused by man, it is reversible by man or that at this exact point in time is the perfect climate for all life on Earth."
Not sure what you meant, but I'm pretty sure you don't either, so it really doesn't matter.

"...you will admit that, "A large part of the science about the causes and results of global warming are in their early stages." and then turn around and claim undisputed fact."
No conflict whatsoever. It doesn't follow that just because we don't know everything about something that we don't know it exists! We know the sun exists, but there are still lots of things about the sun we don't know.

"Try using real scientific method without attacking anyone who dares review the data and then maybe I'll start buying what you're selling."
Tried that, it didn't work. As ususal, you are lying.

For everyone else that is drudging through all this, I thought I'd explain that last sentence. Since it seems Myk1 doesn't understand logic, I thought I'd try his method in hopes he'd understand that.

Brandon7

I have no doubt you have experienced an increase during this warming cycle. But soon it will all reverse again.
And where will all the global warming alarmist be, at the dinner table eating squirrel. If I don't get them first. :)

NOAA has a decent website that allows you to study trends in your area. Just use the divisional tab.
http://www7.ncdc.noaa.gov/CDO/CDODivisionalSelect.jsp
You can tailor the graphing to your state and even fine tune it to your general area of the state. And even a particular month.

What you will find is during early ~1905 to ~1935 the USA experienced a warming cycle. Then we had a cooling cycle from 1945-1978. Then back through the current warming cycle.
Unfortunately the yearly avg is not present to see the immediate trends.

If Milankovitch had it right, then we are all in for a doozy. We all might not be far enough south.

jk

This is why I stay off the "Organic" forum. Too many idealistic idiots. We pragmatists just hammer vermin in the most expeditious way possible.

Somebody mentioned the concept of how farmers do it. First they load the quad up with a fresh tank of propane and a hot battery, and attach the squirrel blaster. Then they head off to the orchard and find a prime hole. The end of the blaster is inserted into the hole and the appropiate volume of propane is released into the tunnel. The 12' distant trigger is pulled and the spark plug at the end ignites the propane which explodes with enough concusive force to kill the vermin. I asked my farmer friend if he ever touched one off when the squirrel was at the other end of the tunnel thereby blasting one into the air? He said no, but a fair number come running out on fire. One ran into a hay barn and set it on fire. Think about that the next time you're buying organic cherries at Whole Paycheck Market.

My personal most satisfying kills have been while backpacking. The old big flat rock propped up with a stick and a string is crude but effective (payback for many holes chewed in tents). Then there was the time I turned around to see one of the little vermin chewing a hole in my wife's pack: I scored a direct hit to the head with a furriously flung boot- dead squirrel.

Without a doubt humans will lose the war to to the rodents over the eons, so I try to get any small bit of pleasure I can out of won battles.

Wow, still going strong minus squirrelheaven and organic smallhome.

Down at the public library this evening, browsing through the gardening section and I came across a book called "Squirrel Wars: Backyard Wildlife Battles and How to Win Them." Lots of anecdotes and info. Like how squirrels will continue to raid bird feeders just to toss the seed on the ground when they don't like what's in it. They ain't hungry, they're spoiled brats.

Also managed to get two more of the furry little bastids today, one in the trap and one with the pellet gun (he just wouldn't go in the trap). This after getting three last week. It seems like there's a never ending supply! I hope all the people who feed the birds appreciate how much money I'm saving them :)

brandon7,

whether or not there is global warming is not relevant to this discussion. I fail to see why killing the pest squirrels that do not have natural predators will lead to more global warming. If anything, letting these pests stealing all fruits (or spending WAY too much time and effort to control them effectively w/o killing them) will discourage home growers to plant fruit trees, which will only make global warming worse.

phase0001,

Very nicely put. I hope this doesn't end that easily, I just popped another bowl of popcorn.

BTW, "The farce is that warming is as drastic as claimed, it's global, it will be catastrophic, it is caused by man, it is reversible by man or that at this exact point in time is the perfect climate for all life on Earth" is quite easily understood. Also, I remember a headline in the 70's warning us of the coming ice age.

Phase0001 wrote, "whether or not there is global warming is not relevant to this discussion."
Thank you so much! I couldn't agree more! I was also surprised when Myke1 brought it up. I didn't see how it could possibly be relevant. That's why I indicated above that he really stuck his foot in his own mouth when he said, "The people with truth on their side don't launch into attacks having nothing to do with the subject..."

Dannyboquet wrote, "BTW, "The farce is that warming is as drastic as claimed, it's global, it will be catastrophic, it is caused by man, it is reversible by man or that at this exact point in time is the perfect climate for all life on Earth" is quite easily understood."
Understanding the sentence doesn't mean it makes any sense. The sentence contains a mix of things from unquestionable facts to wild guesses and everything in between. I can run these down briefly if you think it's important.

"The farce is that warming is as drastic as claimed..."
What does this have to do with anything, especially squirrels? And, claimed by who? This sentence is meaningless by itself. Some people are so rapped up in their politics they refuse to even believe it exists, so are they who Myk1 was talking about?

"The farce is that warming is...global..."
It is a proven fact that global warming is global. Unless you redefine global in some weird way, it' really undeniable. There are small pockets where weather patterns have changed to provide a small area that experiences cooler average temperatures, but these are relatively rare and certainly don't make global warming any less of a global effect.

"The farce is that warming...will be catastrophic..."
This is certainly not a determined fact. It's somewhat like if a semi truck is coming toward you at a high rate of speed. Many things could happen. It could swerve and miss you. In some cases, it's hard to know what will happen for sure until it's possibly too late.

"The farce is that warming is...caused by man"
Well, that's is still debatable, but there certainly seems to be a winning side. Not long ago more than 2,500 scientists from 130 countries did an extensive collective study and stated that there is more than a 90 percent chance that human activity is largely responsible for global warming. Of course there's still wiggle room here. One could argue, for instance, that human activity is only responsible for a small part. Of course the real farce is that, again, this stuff has nothing to do with squirrels.

"The farce is that warming is...reversible by man..."
This is anyone's guess. Even Myk1 could have a valid answer for this one. Studies do show that as more warming occurs, changing directions is exponentially harder. It's called thermal momentum. But I haven't heard anyone claim to have a really good hold on where the "tipping point" will occur. This one is just totally up in the air.

"The farce is that warming is...that at this exact point in time is the perfect climate for all life on Earth."
Again, who is making this claim? The only people I've heard mention this are those trying to ignore global warming. I've never heard any scientist make this claim. Every reasonable person, however, should realize that if drastic climate change occurs, it very well could lead to the end of our species. Here again there's wiggle room. The lack of a known "tipping point" rises to the surface. And finally, from the squirrel's standpoint, maybe it could mean the end of the evil monsters slaughtering their innocent relatives. LOL.

Hello? is this forum dead? I ask a question and only get 112 replies. shameful. Seriously, Brandon and Myke 1- You guys may want to consider getting a room. You know you want to.

delta dave- really surpised that your method worked but will try and give it a go. what do you think of greaing the branch with oil?

Gerry...don't dispair...just wait for global warming to kill off all the squirrels.

I think that watching squirrels fall off of a greased tree branch would be ALMOST as entertaining as listening to the thread hijackers quibble over off-topic matters like little school girls. Especially if the squirrels fell into one of the aforementioned drums half filled with H2O.

I have read that one method of *deterring* squirrels (for whatever THAT'S worth!) is to coat branches with anything sticky -- oil, grease, butter, whatever. Apparently they're exceptionally fastidious about the condition of their paws, and don't like getting them messy. Another alternative might be to wrap fly paper around branches.

Heard it, but never tried it...

-Bruce C.

lycheeluva,
You don't need to grease the branch. The greedy critters will jump in on their own. I put about a pound of seeds on the surface of the water and it loked like the bucket was half full of seeds. I ended up getting 4 squirrels yesterday. Haven't checked yet today. Will post a picture if I can get my camera back from my wife.

I guess anyone interested has probably already googled for good squirrel solutions, but if not, here are just a few of the many out there. Like Bruce said, I haven't tried any of them. We have lots of squirrels, but no significant squirrel problems. We just leave them alone and they never (make that only rarely) do too much damage.

http://www.unexco.com/SQ1.html

http://www.gardeners.com/Outwitting%20Squirrels/squirrelslp,default,pg.html

http://www.thriftyfun.com/tf333438.tip.html

http://mgonline.com/squirrel.html

http://www.uri.edu/ce/factsheets/sheets/squirrels.html

No dead bodies today. Had to add more seed to the bucket as all the seed from yesterday sank. Had to throw more seed on the ground around the bucket for bait too. Need advice from anyone on how to post a picture here.

Delta:

Go to photobucket.com. it will give you simple instructions how to load a pic onto its website. once you have done this, underneath each picture, you will see 3 or 4 different codes . you need to copy the code labelled as HTML. Copy that code and post it directly into the text of your posting on this thread. hit the preview button and you will see your thread text and the photo. hit submit or edit as necessary.

{{gwi:123047}}

{{gwi:123048}}

{{gwi:123049}}

Got another one less than an hour after rebaiting and taking the pics above. Looks like I'll have to rebait every morning but it only takes a couple minutes.

wow- as well as being miserable thieves, seems like they are not the brightest spark in the animal kingdom.

whats the first pic supposed to be?

i wonder if it would work with wooden stick instead of a branch. dont really have any branches.

Dave, I'm curious, do you have a pet or have you ever had one? If so, and you don't mind me being nosey, what kind?

Lycheeluva,

What do you get out of calling them "miserable thieves"? Don't you get enough enjoyment out of killing the poor little things for just trying to survive? I'm really only wanting to understand what's in it for you to call them names and why you seem to have so much emotion built up against them. I'm not sure how good of an example this is, but say you had a termite problem in your house. I'm sure you'd spray to get rid of them. But, if you actually saw one, would you have a big emotional reaction to it and call it names, or would you just kill it? Would it be important to you to make it suffer like the squirrel would while frantically trying to stay afloat for who knows how long?

I'd also like to know what you and Dave think about people doing this to neighborhood pets. I have much more damage done from neighborhood dogs than I do from squirrels. Sometimes, I get upset when I see the damage they do to something I've worked long and hard to create. Do you guys think it would it be alright for me to poison these neighborhood pets or to make a trap that would drown them? Assuming they would die in the trap in at least an hour or two, would that be OK? If not, why not?

I wonder if the seeds would float longer if you coated them with a spray wax, and if they'd still catch the squirrels.

Termites ate not one but two of my brother's houses. He's fairly emotion in his hate for termites. Maybe he should've shared his third rebuild with them and found a more humane way to kill them.
People have traps that drown neighborhood pets, they're called swimming pools. My sister has pulled more than one cat out of her pool.

Nice to see you're back working into your attack on the psychological health of those trying to protect their crop, Brandon.

Brandon, it has to be nice to live in the black and white world you live in. Unfortunately in the world the majority of folks live in there are many shades of gray and the lines not so clearly drawn. With a squirrel you have no real recourse, there is no one to go talk to about looking after their pet, to restrict its movements or access onto your land or its ability to damage said items. I have 2 dogs and 2 cats. If my animals were doing damage to someone else's property then i would like to think that they would approach me with the problem and i would remedy the problem by restricting that animals access and thereby preventing it from causing damage. If someones animals were damaging my property on a continual basis and i had spoken with the owners regarding the situation and they were not taking steps to remedy it then i would take care of the situation permanently myself and would expect my neighbors would do the same if i weren't taking steps if the rolls were reversed.

While i agree that letting an animal fight for its life in a bucket is not how i would rid myself of the critters its likely better than some other options. Instead of picking battles over how you feel it shouldn't be done, why don't you suggest some options that you feel are acceptable and then leave it at that. If folks try it your way then hey, you help ease the suffering of a critter, if not at least you tried. Continuing on this path only makes you look more and more like a bleeding heart PETA pusher who wouldn't boil a lobster because it screams when you put it in a pot or would be against recreational fishing because you are pulling a fish out of the water on a hook.

There is one solution that works and will please everyone.
Build a squirrel proof shelter around the plants.
Enough said.

The Fruitnut

I agree that this would be ideal. While i don't yet have a problem with squirrels myself this would not work for me. My vegetable garden is 40' by 20'. On top of this i have black berries, raspberries, goose berries, grapes, currants, strawberries, blueberries, all in shrub or cane form some of which would be relatively easy to protect others not so much. Then the fruit trees begin and there is no way i could begin to fathom how to protect these trees let alone the cost and maintenance time required to erect and maintain something squirrel proof.

A possible option for fruit trees may be some sort of squirrel cone if there are not other access points from nearby trees or structures.

If a kill is a must i have electric mouse trap that seems to work quite readily on mice, I am relatively sure this could easily be adapted to kill other critters and I would think would do so fairly humanely. If it comes to a point that the greedy little things (and yes you can call some animals greedy as some species often take more than they use) then this is the avenue i plan on pursuing. I purposely grow way more than i can ever use so that i don't have to worry about the birds and other animals and so i can share with friends and family however not everyone has this option.

The trap i have i good for one kill before emptying but i am relatively sure it could be modified to be in a permanently armed state and self emptying. If any of you are interested in pursuing this I'd be interested in seeing what comes of it.

Hey Afss,

My approach is to evaluate the situation and try to determine what method is the best way to deal with the problem while minimizing suffering as much as is reasonable to the animal involved. Another approach is to pitch a temper tantrum, call the animals all kinds of names, and kill it in a cruel manner. Please explain how my approach is of a black and white viewpoint, while the other approach is "colorful". The other may be "colorful", but I think not in the way you are trying to imply.

I would think that the "majority of folks" would approach a situation by evaluating what needs to be done and how best to accomplish the task while minimizing harm. Surely the "majority of folks" aren't out for blood and suffering when it comes to their fellow creatures. I won't take the time to go back and try to evaluate each respondent's method, but from what I can remember, even the "majority of folks" responding to this thread haven't advocated a barbarian approach to their animal issues that I object to. Many folks above claimed they didn't want to cause the animals unnecessary pain.

As a quote I brought up earlier indicates, psychologists pretty much universally believe that people that hurt animals intentionally and unnecessarily are much more likely to have psychological issues and socially destructive behavior. I don't think the "majority of folks" are crazy, so I certainly don't buy your argument that the "majority of folks" approach issues with squirrels with rage and extreme malice toward the animals. Occasionally, I flip the TV over to Animal Planet and watch people, approaching animal problems in the way I object to, getting arrested and put into jail. These aren't the "majority of folks", but mostly people with antisocial behavior and a lack of feeling for living beings.

I think it basically boils down to this: A rational and objective approach to squirrel problems as opposed to an emotional and rage-driven approach benefits everyone and everything involved and is much more likely to provide a more effective result.

Yes, I agree that an objective evaluation of the situation is better than an emotional rage driven one.
This said you seem to spend more time condemning people, rightly or wrongly, for their methods instead of offering solutions. Its not likely you will sway anyones decisions or methods by condemning their process especially while not offering a suggestion you think might work better and likely you would gain more ground by not condemning at all and just suggesting alternative methods.
It doesn't really matter if you like or agree with the squirrels being killed as likely the folks killing them are going to keep killing them. Those that agree with your view point already agree, those that don't agree aren't going to change their minds just because you say its wrong. You can keep beating this issue with out getting through to those you wish to or you can move on to trying to come up with solutions that would minimize the squirrels suffering or give up all together.

Just to clarify, I never said the "cruel" (quotes as i don't know what methods for sure you are calling cruel nor does it matter, i have my own standards of cruelty and while some methods mentioned i agree fall into this others don't) methods were colorful, just that a black and white answer such as no its not ok to kill ever doesn't work where as a grey answer of its ok in some situations if done properly does.

"...you seem to spend more time condemning people, rightly or wrongly, for their methods instead of offering solutions."
I posted some links above, but rehashing the hundreds of solutions here, that are easily available at the click of a mouse, doesn't seem all that productive. Did you read through the links I posted? Those that are truly looking for solutions probably did. Since I haven't had to go to war with the many squirrels I have around here, I don't have first hand experience with which methods work best.

"...just that a black and white answer such as no its not ok to kill ever doesn't work where as a grey answer of its ok in some situations if done properly does."
So, you're saying that you agree with my approach after reconsidering or are you getting my response to the issue confused with those of much earlier respondents? Indeed, all along, my approach was basically "its ok in some situations if done properly." Even my first post said, "The least you could do is shoot to kill and not just maim."

Too bad a thread that gets the hackles up is what also gets all the action. One might hope that something more than conflict was the biggest attraction.

lycheeluva,
The first pic is the manzanita tree that fell over because of all the tunnels around the root mass. A 2x4 board would work for the "plank" they have to walk. Just tie it to one of the bucket handles so it stays secure.

myk1,
coating the seeds in spray wax would be a waste of my time and the spray wax. The seeds sink because they are viable and critters eat viable seed. But that's a topic for a different forum.

fruitnut,
There is no such thing as a squirrel proof shelter. They dig down a few feet and the tunnels are 20 to 30 feet long. I have 2.5 acres. Enough said.

afss,
An electric trap big enough to kill a squirrel is also big enough to kill a cat. I don't want to kill a cat.

And finally, to brandon7,
To answer your questions I have a cat and a dog. I have had pets all my life. My current dog is a German Shepard and my cat is a black cat that would just love to cross your path. If I saw my neighbors doing this to one of my pets I would call the police. Squirrels are not pets. Most of my neighbors have horses and a ground squirrel infestation could result in broken legs and horses being put down. They don't have squirrel problems because they use poison. I won't use poison because I have pets. SQUIRRELS ARE NOT PETS! If you were my neighbor and your pet bit my child I would call the police who would see to it that your pet was put to death. Then I would personnaly deal with you. Squirrels are not pets. If a little vermin that lives less than 3 years can kill several things on my property that are over 50 years old then they have to go. I won't live long enough to see a replanted manzanita tree grow as large as the one the squirrels killed. Not to mention the apple, pear, cherry, peach and almond trees. I've lived here 4 years and have never had a squirrel problem.
Yesterday I watched the 4th squirrel die. She was gasping for air while staying afloat on the other 3 dead bodies. It didn't affect me at all. At one point I shook my finger at her and asked "how do you like my trees now?". My niece and I laughed about that for hours. Then we went swimming. It took the 4th squirrel about 5 hours to die because she was able to stay afloat on the other 3 dead bodies. Does this give you pause?
If you are not a vegetarian you should shut the f up.
If you wear leather shoes or belts you should shut the f up.
If you have leather furniture or car seats you should shut the f up.
If you voted for Bush you should shut the f up.
Christ man, get a life, get a dog, get a job, but just shut the f up.
People are reading these forums to learn, not to get preached at. Go away.

Lycheeluva,
Happy hunting.

If your going to kill it at least do it quickly and eat it ;)

Not the brains though as people have gotten CJD.

Great set up delta9dave.

Thanks for the photos

As a quote I brought up earlier indicates, psychologists pretty much universally believe that people that hurt animals intentionally and unnecessarily are much more likely to have psychological issues and socially destructive behavior. I don't think the "majority of folks" are crazy, so I certainly don't buy your argument that the "majority of folks" approach issues with squirrels with rage and extreme malice toward the animals. Occasionally, I flip the TV over to Animal Planet and watch people, approaching animal problems in the way I object to, getting arrested and put into jail. These aren't the "majority of folks", but mostly people with antisocial behavior and a lack of feeling for living beings.

I think it basically boils down to this: A rational and objective approach to squirrel problems as opposed to an emotional and rage-driven approach benefits everyone and everything involved and is much more likely to provide a more effective result

*********** REPLY SEPARATOR ***********

Thanks for your feedback Brandon.

I don't think the people replying to this thread fit the bill as you describe above. Sure some are frustrated with their efforts at growing things only to have them destroyed by animals. But this is just basic instinct to survive Brandon. So as I posted before it comes down to preservation of self or let the animals run wild and chip away at our life and possibly our survival.

I did not realize the importance of this 'pest problem' until I started to grow things for the first time this year. I had no idea that animals and birds can strip crops clean before I would even get a bite. I thought they would eat some of this or that, but figured we could all live in harmony. But that is not the case.

Between the bugs, locust, hailstoms, deer, groundhogs, rabbits, squirrels and such I have no idea how the prairie people ever survived.

{{gwi:123050}}

I will say the bucket of death is an ingenious and quite rational and objective approach to this issue.

by myk1 5 IL (My Page) on Wed, Aug 6, 08 at 13:36

Brandon,
You can turn everything you said to me back on you.
The fact that you constantly come up with ad hominem attacks against anyone who holds a different opinion than you speaks volumes.
That is why I keep insisting you're not being truthful.
The people with truth on their side don't launch into attacks having nothing to do with the subject like you do.

*********** REPLY SEPARATOR ***********

Absolutely, no need to brow beat others into submission...the truth stands on its own.

And we are each entitled to our opinions.

But, when the subject turns opinions I recall Clint Eastwood's famous line in one of his Dirty Harry series:

"Opinions are like ass.holes...everyone's got one."

We should always he interested in finding truth and peace. If our way is not working then some other way may help. It is good to test and see the results.

The bible reminds us of this "Test everything; hold fast to what is good; abstain from every form of evil," (1 Thess. 5:21) Even if you are an atheist, this concept of testing can be of help to you.

For with such tests, 'the proof of the pudding will be in the eating' and decisions on how to live will not be left only to your ego, but will be grounded in peace.

And to the global warming fanatics...get onto peak oil as your love object.

A few years ago I read an article in the Wall Street Journal about a con man named Charles Ponzi. He was credited with inventing the first pyramid scheme.

The article stated when Ponzi was interviewed he was asked how he was able to swindle so many people so easily, his responded, "When a man's mind is concentrated he is blind."

This case of having your mind concentrated to the point of blindness is not anything new. The ancient philosophers new this well. They called it "putting passion before reason."

Both these areas of passion and reason where the foundation of much philosophical discussion of ethics and virtue with the ancient Greeks.

They knew when passion rules the mind, that the only job left for reason is that of the subservient task to find cleaver ways to satisfy the passions.

When our minds are occupied with too much wreckage of the past, too many problems and complexities and out of control passions then there is little room left in it for reasoning.

My advice...stop fixating on the minutia and look at the total picture, otherwise blindness will set in.

Peak oil will kill you much faster than global warming will.

{{gwi:113248}}

So, what have you decided lycheeluva?

Are you still going with the air guns or have you chosen another method of squirrel control?

delta9dave:

The gray squirrels in NY NY don't dig tunnels.
The ground squirrels in CA dig tunnels.
At least know your enemy before you speak.
Building a squirrel proof shelter isn't that hard.
Squirrels don't chew thru hardware cloth.
Much less work in the long run than any killing strategy.
And more effective.
There will always be more squirrels moving back in
after you kill some.

The Fruitnut

fuitnut- the shelter would not work for me. 1 - i dont have the building skills nec to build it and i cant afford to pay someone else to do it. 2- i dont have the space for a shelter. My backyard is all of 20x12 and every inch is already being used. see pic at bottom of message-

allen- am still looking into some type of gun but i dont think it will be legal for me to obtain one as i live in nyc. if that turns out to be the case- i will try delta's method in combo with at least 2 traps.

while i really hate the squirrels that eat my fruit- i realize that they r just doing their squirrel job. so while i would have no compunction with killing them, even if they suffer a little, i certainly dont take any joy on their pain and would certainly prefer to remove them without killing them or causing them pain. delta- im sure at least a little of what you wrote about enjoying watching the squirrels suffer was just to get a raise out of brandon

{{gwi:123051}}

Not really entering into the fray here, but would wish to point out that the newer, 1000 fps pellet guns are far more powerful than many folks realize - this isn't your grand dad's Daisy BB gun. I have a cheap $100 model, made in China, purchased from Wallyworld - it will put a .17 pellet right through a water-filled plastic gallon milk jug. So if you use one of these things, give a real thought of what may be behind what you're shooting at.

Wow, the flame wars are still going on. But, it sure makes for an interesting read. Been too busy at work to follow them for a while.

I still pose my previous question from a few days ago -- Where is all of this moral outrage when the animal being killed isn't cute, fuzzy, and something that showed up in a Disney movie? Other than one poster, no one seems to care about moles, voles, squash borers, slugs, etc., but they are all 'God's creatures' are they not? Perhaps it's symptomatic of the society we live in -- would the media follow the daily ups and downs of Britney, Paris, Tom-Kat, or BrAngelina if they weren't the 'beautiful people?' I think the animal rights bleeding hearts are only concerned about the cute, fuzzy little critters.

Despite the fact that one poster seems to think I'm some kind of psychopathic serial killer because I put out poison bait blocks for the voles, it seems to me that I and the vast majority of the rest of the posters on here recognize the need to control vermin species when they get out of hand. If we don't keep things like mice, voles, rats, etc., under control, we'll all end up living in filth and disease as happened during the Middle Ages. And, in the real world, the only practical way to do this is often to kill them. It doesn't mean it's 'fun,' but sometimes, 'a man's gotta do ....'

And, it isn't based on some deep, dark psychological 'need' to harm animals, its based on a simple, pragmatic desire to protect all of our hard work and our financial investment. Trust me, been there, done that, I really did have a blue heron eat $500 worth of koi in an afternoon. No, I didn't kill it or shoot it, I strung fishline all across the pond, which was a pain in the butt, but it worked to deter the herons. Had that not worked, in that case, I would have been screwed, because herons are protected under the Migratory Bird Act of 1919, no exceptions that I know of allow them to be killed.

I did lose many of hundreds of dollars worth of plants to voles in the past few years. Some of them were figs and other woody plants I was overwintering in a deep trench under mulch. When I dug them out in the spring, I LITERALLY had sawdust, nothing else was left. So, I now put out, carefully, in nooks and crannies where pets and desirable wild animals can't get them, LOTS of poison bait blocks. It's expensive, and frankly I wish I didn't have to, but it's better than the alternative of being overrun with voles. The poison bait keeps them to a low level, but doesn't totally eliminate them.

I had a filthy mouse invade my house a few years back. I won't be a hypocrit myself and deny that I didn't get some little sense of satisfaction in hearing the mousetrap go 'snap' when I finally got the mouse that moved into my kitchen cupboards, but I hardly think that makes me a depraved Jeffrey Dahmer type serial killer. There's a big difference between people who are killing 'vermin' species for a legitimate economic or health reason, and between those mentally disturbed or sociopathic individuals who do torture animals, usually domestic animals, for some sick reason. I think the vast majority of us know the difference between a vole or squirrel and the neighbor's cat.

And, I don't see how taking a little satisfaction in eliminating a serious pest problem which has been plaguing you makes someone a bad person. Now, when you take it to the level of George W. going after Saddam Hussein on contrived charges, just to show up or show off to his daddy, well, that's a whole 'nother ball of wax, starting a war, killing thousands of people, and sinking this country into a political and economic quagmire. When it rises to that level, then, I think you can legitimately ask questions about someone's psychological makeup and mental stability. But, those of us shooting a squirrel or two to save our fruit trees don't exactly rise to the George W. level. I apologize to any Neocons and Bush supporters out there, dont' want to turn this into a purely political debate,just had to vent a bit and make that analogy.

By the way, for the squirrel huggers out there, are you aware of the fact that some communities BAN or LIMIT the feeding of squirrels and other wild animals and birds BECAUSE feeding them is a public health and safety issue? Roseville, Michigan is one such community, and there are others. And, while rare, squirrels CAN transmit rabies, among other diseases.

Finally, a couple of other thoughts. Lobster -- yum! And, as someone named Dave pointed out above, I don't know WHY I'm wasting my time arguing this with someone who very well might be some 14 year old idealist who has never lived in the real world. Ah, the joys of the 'net.

Allenwrench -- you might really enjoy this forum. Check it out, seems to be right up your alley, based upon all of your recent posts:

http://www.idigmygarden.com/forums/

Dennis
SE Michigan

Dennis
SE Michigan

Here is a link that might be useful: I Dig My Garden Forums

Denn,

I like that line you used.

"There's a big difference between people who are killing 'vermin' species for a legitimate economic or health reason, and between those mentally disturbed or sociopathic individuals who do torture animals, usually domestic animals, for some sick reason."

People like Brandon lack the intellectual honesty to make that distinction. As far as they can understand, there are only two things on the planet. Perfect nature and evil humanity. It's a hippie thing really. They need to feel themselves to be more evolved socially and morally. Ergo, any actual reason, as you have suggested, must be ignored in favor of their own elitism. After Brandon gets into High School and gets a little action he'll settle down, and perhaps in ten years when he finishes college and gets a job and actually knows what it's like to work for something, he'll likely have a much different take on the topic of protecting your own. Until then, his mom buys everything and he has no idea how the real world works, least of all it seems nature. Cut the kid some slack, he's 12 and he types really well.

d
a v
e

YOU GO DELTADAVE!!!!
YOU THE MAN!!!
No, people don't read this just for the information, the entertainment value is PRICELESS! Laughter is sooo good for the soul.

Trust me, you're not going to build a squirrel proof enclosure around my Butternut tree.
For one thing you'd never get the variance to build something that large, that tall or that close to the road.
For my Arkansas Black it would be a similar problem. Too close to the property line and too close to power lines. It would be dangerous and against code to build around it (my city has it in their code to complain if you put a chicken wire fence around your garden).
Since I grow food in my whole yard you would have to fence in the whole yard about 40' up at the moment.

And oh yes squirrels absolutely will chew through hardware cloth (even the EU Sparrows wear it out after pecking at it for years, I've got holes worked in the stuff I covered my attic eaves with, which they get their heads stuck and I laugh because by the time I get the extension ladder to put them out of their misery they're dead so I quit trying).
I had a wounded squirrel put a nice gouge in a hunting knife, if they want in hardware cloth wouldn't stop them any quicker than it would me with a pair of nips. It's like any other hindrance method, you hopefully make it not worth the effort. The same principle applies to killing them, once they figure out the risk isn't worth the reward they back off.

delta9dave,
I was wondering if it was the odor of the seeds attracting them. By the time the squirrels are in the water I don't think their mind is on eating any more.
You could probably use anything that looks like seeds to attract them, unless it's the scent, in which case the wax would cover the scent.
A spray wax would be pennies per application and it sounds like you are going through pounds of seeds a day.

david52,
Squirrel skin is pretty tough stuff and the kill zone on a squirrel is pretty small.

Woohoo! I knew Brandon was heading back towards his animal rights pushed ad hominem claiming the people protecting their crops are psycho killers at heart.
Thanks for not letting me down.

DeltaDave --

Just a thought -- could you cut down on the expense of the sunflower seeds by using some styrofoam packing peanuts or the little styrofoam beads from a beanbag chair for the bulk of the floating mat, and just sprinkle enough sunflower seeds on top to attract the squirrels/gophers? Seems to me that might work ok, and the styrofoam peanuts or beans would be reuseable almost indefinitely.

Another thought -- my brother-in-law makes a similar mouse/vole killing contraption out of a five gallon bucket based on the same principle, but he suspends a little ball of peanut butter from some dental floss over the water from the rod. Perhaps that might work, too, don't know, just a thought.

Dennis
SE Michigan

Lycheeluva - According to the NYS DEC:

"Whenever black, grey and fox squirrels, opossums or weasels are injuring property on occupied farms or lands or dwellings, they may be taken at any time in any manner, by the owners or occupants thereof or by a person authorized in writing by such owner or occupant.

No license or permit from the department is required for any taking authorized by this section."

You can read more on the "DEC Website". Your trees and their fruit qualify as property and you are totally within your rights to put down as many squirrels as necessary to protect them.

I sympathize with your living in NYC and I suggest you try trapping since the air-rifle route is out of the question. Here are a couple of links to a much more sympathetic crowd: Look Here and Here

Be glad you don't live in California:"Fourth Ground Squirrel Tests Positive For Plague"

Or Rochester: "Squirrel causes 22-minute power outage in western Rochester"

Good luck in the tree-rat wars. I've taken down more than I can remember in the past few years and they just seem to keep coming.