Applenut:

I've heard from many sources that Honeycrisp doesn't like the heat. I haven't tried it here. Any place I've checked out in CA that is 5000ft elev isn't as warm as you suggest. Couldn't find Oak Glen on weather.com. But I'd suspect 40s to low 50s winter and 70s and 80s summer. Way cooler than low elevations inland.

The Fruitnut

Oak Glen is perched on an odd bench with air flows varying between onshore Pacific moisture and offshore desert air that influences the weather more than the elevation does. You won't find a weather listing for Oak Glen; it will probably come up Angelus Oaks (which is a bit higher and cooler) or Yucaipa (which is a bit lower and hotter). But I've worked there in 1870's period attire in August, and it was brutal until some merciful hailstorm cooled it off (and shot the apples full of holes).

Winter can be glorious and sunny in the low 70's, or sleet and snow, but never drops below 25 or so. It warms my heart that they do not cancel their Revolutionary War period reenactments for school kids because of weather, but have them bundled up and marching out in the snow just like at Valley Forge (which the kids remember fondly the rest of their lives).

Mind you I'm not looking for perfection in the Honeycrisp, just better than I can get at the supermarket (admittedly not a high bar to clear). If the bloom is delayed because of lack of chill, it would ripen in much cooler weather here. I guess I need to know how the heat affects the juvinile apples.

Applenut

Here is a link that might be useful: Riley's Farm, Oak Glen

"An apple tree having a slightly upright form with moderately vigorous growth; a superior fruit with solid to mottled red color over a yellow background and a crisp and juicy fruit texture; an extended season of harvest but with generally even ripening of fruit so that repeat pickings are unnecessary; good hardiness with little winter injury when grown near Excelsior, Minn. at approximately 45.degree. latitude; and having annual fruit production with no flower thinning required"

Here is a link that might be useful: United States Patent: PP07197

Applenut:

Thanks for the info about Oak Glen and their apple orchards. Sounds like a great place. I knew there were apples in and around the mountains north of LA but this is the first I've heard of those east of there. One place claimed they are 15-20 degrees cooler in summer than the valleys. That could be PR. Regardless, why not just try Honeycrisp. That's how we learn.

The Fruitnut

I grow Honeycrisps in Walnut Creek, in the S.F. Bay Area. We have hot, dry summers. The high temperature exceeds 90 degrees F almost every day, and temperatures in the high 90's or over 100 degrees F are not uncommon. The apples grow fine in this climate -- they taste good, and there is little if any sun damage.

Good luck,

Nimzo

Fruitnut-

No, they are correct; Oak Glen can be gloriously cooler than down in the valley, but we get inversion layers that sometimes play havoc with the temps, the mountains being as hot or hotter than the valleys. But in winter they can get more frost than their elevation warrants, so you get the best of both worlds; stinking hot and freezing cold, just like back east!

Nimzo-

Whohoo! That's the ticket. I put in my order to Starks already. Thanks for the tip. By the way, try Arkansas Black up there; it is killer here, much better than the mountain ones.

Applenut

I have a second year Honeycrisp tree with two apples on it. I am in North County San Diego about nine miles north of Escondido.

How do I know when the apple is ripe? I just checked and one appears ripe as it has a red color. I'll have to pick it and try my first Honeycrisp Apple.

Zeuspaul

The ones I have had from hot places in the east have been mediocre - no super crispness at all. My tree has yet to fruit to confirm or deny this. Here it can be hot all through the night but in California it tends to cool off a lot more at night. That could make the difference. I looked up Yucaipa weather today - high 102 low 68. That low after that hot NEVER happens in the east!!

Scott

From what I've read, Honeycrisp tastes best if there are low overnight temperatures during ripening. So I don't think the high heat will hurt you as long as you get some decent lows in August and Sep. I picked my Honeycrisp when they turned red (about two weeks ago) and they were very good. The local orchard picks them still mostly yellow and they're still good.

I grow mine in a climate very much like nimzo I guess. 100 degrees some days, many in the nineties. I pick mine the first of September. They are very good. I let some hang to September 10 and they are scrumptious. Those apples are exposed to forty degree nights and bright 85 days, this year it has stayed in the 88-90 range. Next year I think I will Retain some of them.
applenut, go for it.
Geraldo, who might never plant another tree on anything but G11. Maybe.

You could try e-mailing Kuffel Creek and asking if they have tried it, their website is about growing apples in heat:

http://www.kuffelcreek.com/applelist.htm

Carla in Sac

There is one major difference in between sea level and the mountains in Southern California, and that is the diurnal temperature shift. At higher elevations, even if it's very hot during the day, it will inevitably cool very quickly. This greatly improves the flavor and keeping qualities of apples. At sea level, especially inland, there isn't as much of a diurnal shift. Even Walnut Creek has very strong diurnal temperature swings, even in the middle of the Summer.

However, no matter what, give Honeycrisp a try, and make sure it's on MM-111, that will make a real big difference.

ooops, I just reread my post, and it doesn't make sense.

What I meant to say is:

- Inland Socal is very warm at night all the way into late September, some apples don't respond well to that and you end up with a Fall apple that has the qualities of a Summer apple - poor storage, goes mealy fast, lacks good flavor balance.

- Glenn Oak in the Socal mountain foothills has a bigger diurnal shift, it cools off at night, much faster than at sea level, and the overnight lows are significantly colder. it makes for very good apples.

- Walnut Creek is not a good reference point, because in Norcal Walnut Creek cools off very fast at night, so the Walnut Creek climate has more in common with Oak Glen than say Riverside.

In short, Glenn Oaks Summers have more in common with Walnt Creek and inland washington State than with the LA basin or Riverside county. But, with all that being said, you never know unless you try, and MM-111 rootstock somehow seems a cure all for low chill, high heat climates, so I say go for it.

Thank you all for your valued input. I emailed Jon Clements, Mr. Honeycrisp at the UMass Fruit Advisor (excellent videos on YouTube by the way) and asked him if he had any data on Honeycrisp in a warm climate, and he said no, but to try it; which is the same consensus I'm getting all around. I'm also going to try Pixie Crunch, which has been compared to Honeycrisp only smaller and more intense.

To truly test apples you need to start young and live long! For instance, this morning I picked one of the worst Northern Spys you'll ever taste in your life- still very green but dry and mealy with almost no taste. But they bear quite heavily in our climate, and by the from the compactness of the bloom period I would even consider it "low chill". On the other hand, Wealthy, another Minnesota native that ripened last week, was excellent- crisp and spicy, laughing at the heat.

I've found its dangerous to assume what will not grow here without actual testing, and often one tree or several crops is a poor test, as trees and crops can have bad years and quality can change from one side of the tree to the other. A tree's origin is not always the key to its adaptability here, as for every apple from Australia or New Zealand that is good, there's one from Switzerland, Minnesota, and New York that thrives.

Applenut

Applenut, funny you mention the worst northern spy, I just ate the worst spigold I have ever had - mealy and terrible, it was off a very low branch just a few inches off the soil on the south side of the tree where it gets very hot. Needless to say, the hot sun fried the apple, hence it was terrible. But in the canopy, I get very good ones.

It would be very useful for the community if you could document what works in the high heat. Another heat resistant apple I recommend is king david, it did fine even with apples exposed to the brunt of the sun - not a trace of sunburn.

The Oak Glen Apple Growers' Association has links & contact info. for most of the orchards that sell direct to the public (several offer u-pick). I've gotten some great honeycrisps (any many other unique & heirloom types) from the orchards there.

Here is a link that might be useful: OGAGA

Axel:

I'm not surprised King David did well for you; I'd consider it part of the Winesap family (Virginia Winesap, Stayman, Arkansas Black) all of which do well in the heat and are Southern favorites.

As for documenting what does well in the heat, the list Carla references in the above post does that quite well.

Applenut

I just had some Honeycrisp apples last week from the local farmer's market. They grow them in western North Carolina in the mountains. Mind you these "mountain" orchards are rarely above 4000 feet in elevation, some at a mere 2600. It still gets hot and muggy there in the summer, easily reaching 90 on quite a few days. The honeycrisp apples I had were absolutely delicious.