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ROSSEYANKA Persimmon

Posted by strudeldog 7 NW GA (My Page) on
Mon, Sep 6, 10 at 22:33

Does the Hybrid Rosseyanka need pollination to produce fruit, and if it does would its pollination needs be best served by American persimmon Diospyros Virginiana or Asian Kaki persimmon. Nikitas Gift is reportedly an offspring of Rosseyanka crossed back to Kaki, so I guess that states a Kaki would at least be a possibility, but that cross of Virginiana X Kaki doesnt seem to have been duplicated very easily beyond the Russian/Ukraine efforts that produced Rosseyanka and Nikitas Gift. Is anyone aware of what they did for the successful cross where other efforts did not succeed, or are there actually more Hybrids than I am aware. I have seen others discussed as hybrids, but never with the certainty that these 2 seem accepted. Thanks for input and thoughts.


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: ROSSEYANKA Persimmon

The hybrid Rosseyanka, like many varieties of both American and Asian persimmons will fruit without pollination - and in the case of Rosseyanka, prolifically.

The Russian success in hybridizing the two species was not simple or quick in reaching fruition. They attributed their eventual success to their practice of pollinating an Asian grafted on American rootstock with the pollen from an American grafted on Asian rootstock. There were a number of successful crosses achieved in this way, but apparently the Russians were most pleased with the variety they later named Rosseyanka, and this is the only virginiana X kaki of that series that is currently available in the U.S.


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RE: ROSSEYANKA Persimmon

Have had Rosseyanka growing here since '98 or '99, has been fruiting for several years. Plenty of native male persimmons in the surrounding woods/fields, though I'm not certain what chromosome number I've got here - probably 60-c; only 'male' kaki I have is Hokkaido, and I'm not certain that it's ever bloomed.
Rosseyanka sets a full crop every year, regardless; Occasional fruits will have a single seed; well over 90% will be fully seedless.


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RE: ROSSEYANKA Persimmon

Thanks CreekWeb & Lucky
Thats good information So it appears Rosseyanka leans more towards Kaki in the characteristic to parthenocarpically set fruit. I prefer the Kaki , both astringent and non-astringent to Virginiana and have no Male Virginiana in my plantings. Interesting on the approach they took with (Kaki on Virginiana) and (Virginiana on Kaki) for the parents. I guess I will have to re-think what role a rootstock would play in pollination, as I dont understand that. I was not planning on trying the cross myself, Just trying bringing in as cold tolerant types available as late spring freezes are a primary concern.


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RE: ROSSEYANKA Persimmon

I would caution that cold-hardiness and tolerance to late spring freezes are two distinct qualities not necessarily shared by persimmons noted to be "cold-hardy." The most notable example of this disparity would be Rosseyanka, which while considered cold-hardy because of its ability to withstand winter lows is the most sensitive to late spring freezes of any persimmon I've observed, American or Asian. My dozen or so trees were all damaged by a late freeze this year of no lower than 30 degrees, and the total crop was lost; none of my other persimmons lost fruit from this freeze. Another persimmon known to be very cold-hardy but intolerant to late spring freezes is the Asian Hira Tanenashi, though this one didn't show damage from this year's freeze.


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RE: ROSSEYANKA Persimmon

Creekweb,
So is Rosseyanka early to leaf out in the spring? In my location I am more concerned with late freezes following an extended warm period as much of this area had on Easter weekend 2007. I did not have persimmon planted then, but the couple I knew about in the area I think were completely killed back. I think they were both Fuyu. I am expecting to lose fruit on late freezes on some springs on persimmon as well as other type plants, but I am more concerned with extensive damage to the tree itself. I was going to try can focus on later vegetating cultivars to avoid the damage to both tree and fruit. I believe Jiro and the Jiro bud sports are suppose to leaf a bit later than most non-astringent cultivars. The topic of cold hardiness of Kaki persimmons has been discussed on multiple threads here, but has anyone made notice if these cultivars noted for cold hardiness are later leafing out. I have not really noticed any of my current cultivars differing when they break bud, but plan to pay more attention next year.


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RE: ROSSEYANKA Persimmon

My Rosseyanka persimmons did not leaf out any earlier than a number of other varieties, and the disproportionate degree of frost damage they sustained this year appears to be related to a higher sensitivity to frost of this hybrid compared to Asian and American persimmons. I have not heard reports of this phenomenon from others, so this observation is merely anecdotal and no conclusions should be drawn; but still, I would hesitate planting much of this variety in a climate regularly subject to late frosts.

Because of the unusually early spring this year and the increased dangers of frost damage seen with this weather pattern, I paid particularly close attention to the leafing out of the persimmons, as these trees in general are very sensitive to late frosts. There was very little difference in the timing of bud swelling and leaf emergence among the different varieties of Asian (including Ichi Ki Kei Jiro and Maekawa Jiro) and American persimmons with the exception of American persimmons of the Morris Burton lineage which were considerably later than any of the others. These were grafted persimmon trees and this tardiness was evident on trees on both (what I believe to be) tetraploid and hexaploid rootstocks. Again, this is single observation anecdotal evidence of uncertain value, but if I were to plant a persimmon orchard in an area subject to frequent late frosts, and I were doing the grafting myself, I would use rootstocks from the Morris Burton line (or another known to be late in breaking bud.)


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RE: ROSSEYANKA Persimmon

Here, Rosseyanka and the D.virginiana selections all break dormancy before the D.kakis. The Easter Big Freeze Disaster of 2007 caught them with 4-6 inches of tender new growth - and burned it back; the kakis were all still tightly dormant. Go figure. That freeze killed all my heartnuts and Persian/Carpathian walnuts back to their black walnut rootstock, and killed outright several 10yr-old seedling butternuts and heartnuts. It was (hopefully) a freak occurrence.
Rosseyanka fruit is more reminiscent of the kaki parent - relatively thick 'skin' which holds the pulp well, even when fully ripe; hold well on the tree - you either have to snip them loose or pull them free from the calyx.


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RE: ROSSEYANKA Persimmon

Thank you both,
I think I will try and include Rosseyanka in my plantings this coming year as I believe it is available from one of the places I will be obtaining trees. I dont have any growing experience with D. Virginiana. I have eaten a lot of fruit off wild trees, but not any of the selected/improved cultivars and this hybrid sounds like it has some desirable traits, and not requiring a pollinator was the deciding factor for me. I am really finding Kaki to be my favorite fruit to grow and plan on expanding my cultivars from 7 to about double that this year. Relatively easy care, Precocious bearing of wonderful fruit, and beautiful trees. Ornamentally the young trees are impressive, hoping they retain that as they mature. Basically going into 3rd year of orchard establishment they have all passing grades for me, and I have yet to find any shortcomings. Interesting that you would bring up Heartnut as they were one of the few plants I had established in 2007, as part of a "Nut Grove Package" from "Bear Creek Nursery" back in 1998? All non-grafted seedlings of Butternuts, Heartnut, Black Walnut, Northern Pecans, Chestnuts. After that 2007 Freeze was the only time since the Chestnuts started producing that they did not produce. Still waiting on the others to produce their 1st nut. The Butternuts/Heartnut were covered with the long Male catkins this spring but no nuts developed. I didnt keep real good records back then, and I really not sure which are Heartnut and which are Butternuts as they look so similar. Thanks again for input.


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RE: ROSSEYANKA Persimmon

strudeldog, you might want to try some Rosseyanka fruit before you plant one if you can find it. I culled my Rosseyanka because I didn't like the fruit. But that's just me.


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RE: ROSSEYANKA Persimmon

A slight correction to what was already written above:
Rosseyanka originated in 1959 by Pasenkov at the Nikitsky Botanical Garden. He crossed a seedling no.213 of American Persimmon (female) with pollen of Asian Persimmon forms 48 and 145. A hybrid no. 18 has been grown up in vitro (laboratory conditions)and fruited in 1964 for the first time.
It was named "Rosijanka". That's the story.


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RE: ROSSEYANKA Persimmon

Although just about every source I've come across describes Rosseyanka as D.v. x D.k. the most reliable source I could find IMO does describe it as D.k. x D.v. and I am now pretty much convinced that D.virginiana is the seed parent. Thanks for that correction Harbin.


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RE: ROSSEYANKA Persimmon

Could anyone kindly refer me to a good nursery/web site where to purchase a two- three years old Rosseyanka persimmon?
I grew up in Italy, and persimmon trees grew up with me. I think the Rosseyanka p. might be the most suitable to my 6-7 zone here, still maintaining some of the taste so distinctive of the Japanese varieties I remember liking so much. I know, it' gourmet nostalgia!
Thanks in advance.


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RE: ROSSEYANKA Persimmon

Carla, if you are in 6b/7a zone. You can grow many real kaki persimmons, not necessary need Rossiyanka. I am in 6b zone and have 7 different varieties right now. My sister has even more. Jiro, Hana, Ichi, Izu and many others grow and fruit well for me here. Edible Landscaping is where most of my came from. All were nice trees and you can choose tree size.
Olga


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RE: ROSSEYANKA Persimmon

  • Posted by ejp3 7NY (My Page) on
    Fri, Jun 24, 11 at 13:37

Is rosseyanka astringent or non? I picked one up and plan to graft a few different cultivars onto it. I got mine from treesofjoy. if its astringent what would be a good non astringent for zone 7 to graft to it? Thanks


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