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nuthen

planting trees in mid winter

nuthen
9 years ago

i live in virginia. i am wanting to buy some trees and brambles from groworganic.com, but the website says they ship the items as soon as they get them, which is as early as december 19. so im wondering if i am able to plant dormant trees in the ground so early without any problems?

Comments (21)

  • appleseed70
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Not recommended at all. By Dec. 19 the ground could be frozen solid...do you really want to dig into frozen soil after first possibly removing snow? It will be difficult to break up the soil correctly which means you'll be leaving air pockets. Remember too...you could be doing this in freezing temps, wind howling, snow blowing. Forget it...wait till spring.
    Working in this kind of weather leads to shortcuts and that leads to disappointment further down the line. Not only that the likelihood of successful planting is greatly reduced.

  • drew51 SE MI Z5b/6a
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Why don't you try Bay Laurel? They can send as late as the first week in March. in Zone 7 ground should be good.
    They should have everything grow organic has. I ordered from them in 2013 and got the trees in the ground in zone 6. All are still here. But if I would have did it this year, I would not have got them in. This next winter is supposed to be cold. You could heal them in till you can plant. Better chances in March than December! Although if your ground is workable, you can do it. Mine lost all foliage went back into dormancy, came out on time and did fine. I did get a little lucky! I asked MSU about it and they said as long as ground is not frozen, even if air is freezing it's cool. They were right, it worked.
    This year I had one tree, and had to heal it in, it did not survive. I got it from Tierra Mandre.

    I would also consider Indiana Berry or Nourse farms for brambles. You can get them at the right time. I did buy 2 blueberry plants from Bay Laurel this year. They are doing fine. I kept them inside till weather was better.
    I like all of these nurseries a lot, all top rate!

    Here is a link that might be useful: Bay Laurel Nursery

    This post was edited by Drew51 on Wed, Oct 15, 14 at 3:18

  • dbarron
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Typically our ground (zone 6) doesn't freeze...but last year it did, and I'd not have wanted to have to dig in it.
    No telling what this winter will bring.

  • nuthen
    Original Author
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    i wanted to go with grow organic because their items and shipping are both cheaper. but bay laurel sounds like a safer bet i guess

  • mamuang_gw
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    It really depends on what fruit trees and brambles you want to buy. There are many reputable nurseries that will ship their trees at the time you ask. Nurseries further south like TN or those on the west coast ship earlier.

    Sometimes you have to go with a nursery that has particular fruit trees you want. Last year I wanted a few Winblo peach trees so I ordered them from Vaughn nursery in TN. Its latest date of shipping was early March. That time, soil was frozen solid in my area.

    When the trees arrived, I opened the box, checked the trees condition, made sure the roots were moist, closed the box and put it in the unheated area (cold but not freezing) of my basement with no light. I checked them about every 7-10 days to make sure the roots were not dry out. I planted them in mid April. The trees were fine.

  • lucky_p
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    If you can dig a hole to plant them, they should be fine. Rarely is my ground frozen so that I can't dig a hole for more than a few days at a time, and even more rare is any concern about snow cover - and I'm in zone 6. Should be even less a problem for you in zone 7.

  • rina_Ontario,Canada 5a
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I vaguely remember reading about preparing the planting hole ahead of time: dig out, fill back with loose soil then 'cover' with mulch/lots of leaves/perhaps even cardboard to prevent freezing - soil should be loose enough to plant when trees arrive. Perhaps I remember incorrectly - am I confused here?
    This should work even better in your warmer zone and before worst of the freezing weather (which should be well after December?)

    Rina

  • drew51 SE MI Z5b/6a
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Yeah the zones are not very helpful. Our ground freezes every year. Zone 6. Anything north of me is going to be frozen. Maybe you should just plant them in December.
    Keep us updated!

  • appleseed70
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    groworganic.com is Peacful Valley Farm Supply. They have fairly crappy reviews on the Scoop. Here is one of those reviews. BTW...the reviews were 5 positive / 1 neutral / 5 negative. That's not very good and as the old adage goes "you usually get what you pay for" applies probably more often in nursery stock than anything else...save for maybe parachutes.

    Rating Author Content
    Negative djasper
    Santa Fe, NM
    (1 review)
    September 6, 2014 Posted on September 6, 2014, updated September 6, 2014

    On September 6th, 2014, djasper added the following:

    I ordered 15 bare roots trees from Peaceful valley in December 2013. They were having a special promotion, 10 trees for $199 shipped. There were numerous banners urging me to order early, because they were likely to sell out. Not wanting to miss the promotion and wanting the best selection of trees, I ordered right away. Initially, I received an email indicating my trees would ship at the end of February, but despite that, the trees actually shipped on almost two months early, on December 30th.

    My farm is located in USDA Zone 5, and at that time of year, the ground is frozen solid. It was impossible to plant the trees when I received them, and I nearly broke my back trying to chip away enough earth to “heel in” the trees according to the enclosed instructions for later planting. Peaceful valley did not honor their original shipping estimate and they made no effort to ship the trees at a time that would have been appropriate for my zone.

    I was eventually able to plant the trees at the end of March, the soonest it was possible to dig into the soil. The 3 months of “heeling in” was likely a factor in the death of 7 out of the 15 trees ordered. That and the fact that 10 trees are shipped in a single box, and to fit them all in, they prune the roots extremely aggressively. Many of my trees had only a few 4 inch stubs left where the roots used to be.

    Peaceful Valley does offer a “guarantee” on their bare root trees. You have a whopping 15 day window to notify them of any problems, between May 15th and June 1st, no sooner and no later. After that, you are out of luck. This deadline is buried in the fine print somewhere on their website. Ironically, of the 8 trees that did survive, several of them eventually broke dormancy and leafed out after June 1st, so reporting a dead tree before that time would have been premature.

    When I was sure I knew which trees were not going to make it, I asked for a credit for my lost trees and I was told that having missed the deadline window, they would not do anything for me.

    I have ordered dry goods from Peaceful Valley in the past and it was OK, but this was my first time ordering nursery stock. I believe the quality of the trees is poor because of the aggressive root pruning, the timing of shipping is erratic and makes it impossible to plant the trees in many areas, and the so-called guarantee is unreasonably restrictive. I am out $140 for 7 dead tress and I will never order from this company again.

  • drew51 SE MI Z5b/6a
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Bay Laurel trimmed the roots a lot too, but the trees all made it. They are doing great. I ordered from them because if you want to try the west coast trees you have little choice. Although Raintree does carry many and can get them to you at the right time. Stuff I got from Raintree always looks really beat up, sometimes small, but most do well, and they will replace dead things. Prices are decent, but not cheap! Prices all over have gone up some.

  • alan haigh
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I agree that Peaceful Valley should have assumed responsibility for a shipment delivered so inconveniently off estimate- that seems inexcusable and unethical not to provide either a refund or replacement trees- shame on them.

    It is too bad, though, that the writer tried healing the trees into frozen ground instead of storing the trees in a cool garage. Lacking that, a pile of leaves thrown over the trees in their shipping box would have probably worked a lot better than setting the trees into chunks of frozen ground with the tops exposed. If he'd scraped away the snow, covered the trees with an insulating material like leaves and covered that with a tarp the trees would likely have survived.

    On another subject, I complained last year of Bay Laurel amputating most roots before shipping. In the end it didn't slow the plums I got from them much but much smaller peach trees I ordered from Adams that had a reasonable amount of roots gave me much better growth than the two Bay Laurel peach trees I planted in same soil, nearby. I would pay a premium to get the roots with the tops, but it is not an option with Bay Laurel.

    This post was edited by harvestman on Thu, Oct 16, 14 at 9:05

  • rayrose
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I always plant my trees around the middle of january, no matter who I get them from. My ground never freezes and I always prepare the planting sites(weed/grass free zones and predug holes) before I receive the trees. The better nurseries will ship, when you tell them to, and will trim the roots to fit the packing boxes. I've always found that the rootstock is more important in how fast the tree grows compared to the roots being trimmed.
    I've always had good success with Bay Laurel, but I'd be hesitant about ordering from Peaceful Valley, especially fruit trees.

  • nyRockFarmer
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I recently ordered a couple trees from Peaceful Valley because they had they had the varieties I wanted on Citation. One tradeoff for their lack of cold storage is their cheap price of $20 per tree. I figure it is worth the experiment.

    I plan to pot them in a well drained tub and keep them in a cold storage shed until it is time to plant. I figure I can keep them better hydrated in potting soil.

    I prefer prepping the ground in autumn when the ground is solid. Usually the clay is way too soggy in the spring to work with. I remove sod in 6' circle and dig the soil so it is heaped around the rim of the hole. Depending on where it is, I will dig a small drainage channel to make sure it doesn't hold water.

    In general, I would say it is fine to plant them as soon as the danger of deep freezes are over. The seasonal low is usually in mid January, so some time after that depending on your location. In an El Nino year, however, the winter low could be in February or March. Obviously unpredictable El Nino weather is the biggest risk to any plan.

  • RobThomas
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I'm in zone 7 (middle Tn), and have planted many trees in December. I've never had any issues. In zone 7 the ground isn't frozen in December (and almost never frozen during any winter months). And, unless you are in the mountains, are unlikely to have snow cover. Snow and frozen ground simply isn't an issue in this area - at least in my part of zone 7.

    I ordered from Grow Organic/Peaceful Valley last year. Only ordered strawberries, but I had no issues. They were delivered in March.

  • RobThomas
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I also wanted to add that if you're ordering from Grow Organic because of their lower cost trees, then you should check out Burnt Ridge. Most of their trees start at $15. However, if you do order from them, I'd recommend requesting March delivery - that's when they ship their bare-root trees. During their November/December delivery they ship some potted "trees". These potted plants are teeny tiny things and I'd try to avoid those. They also have a great variety of plants. I've ordered from them several times with few issues - other than those tiny potted plants. The apple trees I got last March were some of the best I've ever received.

  • alan haigh
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    If you know in advance that you are going to need to plant after the ground may be frozen you can insulate the ground with hay or leaves to keep it soft and easily workable throughout winter, by the way. Of course, early snow or any snow while the soil is still soft will accomplish the same thing if its deep enough (until it melts).

  • gardengal48 (PNW Z8/9)
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    In zone 7, the soil does not freeze to any significant depth or for any significant length of time. A few inches at most and only if the air temperature stays well into the low 20's or teens for several days to a week or more.

    If you can dig the planting hole, you can plant any dormant tree hardy to your area.

  • don555
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Zone 7, Virginia? Ground can't freeze significantly there, and very unlikely to freeze at all in December I would think. Go for it.

  • nuthen
    Original Author
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    that's what i was thinking. not only that, we're getting a bunch of free well-composted manure (over 15 months old). so i was thinking of pre-digging holes where i want my trees to be and bring some of the manure in our heated garage. so even if the ground is frozen i can just bring out the room-temperature manure and quickly plant the trees in the holes.

    eta; actually might that make the roots suffer from temperature shock or something? idk

    This post was edited by nuthen on Fri, Oct 17, 14 at 15:35

  • alan haigh
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    You don't want to fill the holes with something of a different texture than existing soil, compost will likely be too soggy or too dry if poured into holes, depending on the nature of the material.

    If the soil is too poor to grow trees you can use the compost as a dressing below mulch in rings under the trees but pulled away from the trunk or you can incorporate the compost thoroughly with the top few inches of soil going out at least 2.5 feet from where the trunk will be.

    If you are interested in the current science of planting trees you should check out this article.

    Here is a link that might be useful: pllanting trees

  • itheweatherman
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    You could also order trees from Raintree Nursery.com. They start shipping bareroots from January 1st to June 1st. Plus, they have 20% bonus items when you make an order.

    I also buy bare roots from Groworganic.com and so far, I haven't had any problems with them. I give them an "A" rating for their wonderful customer service and great products.