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| I have seen youtube videos of folks chopping the entire top off apple trees then bark or cleft grafting on several scions of different wood. Then I also hear about this being bad practice and that I should leave a "nurse branch" above the grafted section for sap flow and to help the tree recover. I have several 4" male v.persimmons that I would love to change to something useful. My plan was to lop them off about 4' up and bark graft about 6 scions of either Asian persimmon or a better variety of v.persimmon to each then pick the best once they break dormancy. Is this prudent for persimmons or is there a better route to take? Thanks |
Follow-Up Postings:
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| Top worked and no nurse branch. The nusre branch will take all the nutrients and your graft will die. After care is important, you need to rub off all the new shoots below the graft every week. Tony |
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| Agree. Keeping understock shoots rubbed off is critical. Persimmons are very persistent about trying to push new growth from the understock. I'd almost recommend checking almost daily for new buds popping out below the graft for the first couple of months, and rubbing them off as soon as you can see them. After that, weekly might be adequate. |
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- Posted by persimmonbob 6b (My Page) on Thu, Oct 9, 14 at 13:27
| There are all kinds of ways doing topworking.Apples you barkgraft 4 or 5 ,pick the strongest one after they have been growing for a year, that way the tree will callused over quicker. Here is a sample of one of my persimmon tree with different varieties.Asian on native rootstock at about 4 feet. |
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- Posted by persimmonbob 6b (My Page) on Thu, Oct 9, 14 at 13:35
| Forgot to mention that the new growth on the rootstock are allow to grow but use only the ones close to the top.I usely pick 4 branches and rub the rest off and graft the following spring. |
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- Posted by ForestAndFarm 7A (My Page) on Fri, Oct 10, 14 at 2:20
| The only problem I see with your plan is the "after they break dormancy" part. It sound like you are planning to do the grafting while they are dormant. While this can be done with W&T or cleft grafting, you need the sap to be running for bark grafting persimmons. Wait until your tree has fully leafed out in the spring and then cut it down and bark graft it. It is important to do several things. 1) Protect the scion from drying out (I like to wrap them in parafilm-M before grafting. 2) Make sure you have good pressure on the graft. I like electrical tape for bark grafting because it will stretch and apply good pressure. 3) Protect the graft from direct sun. I just use a little aluminum foil to make a sun shield. 4) Visit the tree every week or to and remove all water sprouts below the graft. |
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| Thank you all, I had meant when the scions broke dormancy and began to grow I would pick the best one. I'm glad you pointed out that the tree should be fully leafed out before cutting down though. I has assumed due to how persimmons grew naturally that I would have to choose only one variety. It's seems from the photo that this is not the case eh? I had concerns that a split to multiple varieties would lead to splitting in the future. Is bark grafting the preferred method? |
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- Posted by ForestAndFarm 7A (My Page) on Fri, Oct 10, 14 at 21:09
| I generally graft multiple scions when I'm bark grafting to trees 2" in diameter or larger. They can be the same or different varieties. This improves the chances that at least one scion will take. I let them all grow through the first growing season. During the first dormant season I inspect them. If the bases are getting at all close to each other, I'll cull all but one. On larger trees I may be able to wait until the second dormant season before culling. I use the culled branches for a scion source to graft other trees. That is why I sometimes let them go two dormant seasons on larger trees. It kind of works like a scion farm. It is possible to let more than one scion grow permanently from a bark graft. However, this is generally problematic. You are creating the same kind of crotch angle that we generally want to get rid of because they are weak and are at threat of breaking at some point. If you want more than one variety from a single tree, I would recommend using some other grafting technique that does not create the bad crotch angles you get when bark grafting multiple scions. As for grafting techniques, I'm not highly experienced with many grafting techniques. I generally bark graft persimmons because I've had such great success rates bark grafting native rootstock growing wild in the field. |
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| Thanks again Assuming the grafts take well any idea how long it will take to bear fruit since the rootstock is essentially mature? |
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