It sounds as if you are wanting a nearly cost-free establishment. There is a section in The Grafter's Handbook that details how to get a grafted tree to grow on it's own roots, and therefore any suckers would be identical to the parent tree.

The method utilizes a metal band put around the tree just above the graft. The tree is then buried much deeper than the graft. The rootstock will provide enough energy for the tree while the roots on the graft develop. Then the metal band will cut off the future supply of energy to the rootstock and it will eventually die off.

With this method you will attain an identical tree to the mother tree.

Is this kind of what you are after?

Yes milehighgirl exactly. I would like for it to be easier for other people to plant an orchard. Many people pay $20-$50 per tree and so the cost has kept them from doing it. If we pay $20-$50 per tree it's because they are offering a variety we can't find scion wood for or it's new and patented and we don't want to live without it. I frequently give neighbors starts off my plums or blackberries etc.. just because I always have extras that grow up outside the rows. In the last year or two I've been teaching several people how to graft. I give them grafting wood when I prune my trees. Lots of people I know with grapes, rasberries etc. go and buy new ones because they don't realize you can propagate them by layering them. I know a lot of the experts on here have techniques I don't know about like the method you had just mentioned.

Easier, cheaper and the investment in time and the learning curve required can be entirely different considerations. The ultimate goal is to be successful. Paying a little more up front to ensure a greater degree of success and for higher quality fruit can save you money in the long run. Amortize $20 over the life of a fruitful tree and the investment is negligible. In my locale you can bargain shop a lot during bare root season. There are great deals to be had at "off the wall" places, CostCo and some of the big box stores. Some vendors offer savings with bulk orders.

I am debating using the method I posted above for my pawpaw, jujube, and maybe American persimmon trees; if they die to the ground then any sprouts will be true-to-type.

milehighgirl, no one has gotten pawpaw to makes roots grow out of stems. KSU has gone to great lengths to do this, by cuttings and layering techniques, and they can't get it to work. There has been some success in getting first year seedlings to root from cuttings, but that's it. I wouldn't bother.

Alex

I'm involved in establishing a small orchard (~25 trees) at the local community college. We bought 10 bare root apple and 10 bare root pear root stocks and planted them this past spring. I think all 20 cost $50. Next spring we will graft. Scion wood is cheap, about $3/foot, so less than $2 per tree...maybe $30 for all 20 trees. So, in plant material, well under $100 for 20 trees, or less than $5/tree. Buying already grafted trees would save a couple years, but as you point out, would cost more. They also bought some young cherry trees, not sure on the price of those.

Alex

Pawpaw are exceptions to all the rules. They don't like to be touched by certain plants or things. If a peach or persimmon touch them the branch dies. I'm not sure all paw paws are like that but the ones my extended family grow are all like that. I think if you air layer them the branch rots instead of roots. I like the concept milehigh.

Alex,

I had no idea. Thanks for sharing that with me.

Clark,

Very interesting. Who would have ever thought?

Great points mrclint and definitely things to consider. Alex yes rootstocks are a great way to go for those of who graft. I usually get my rootstocks from http://www.lawyernursery.com/category.aspx?categoryid=39&openid=39 and also really like what http://www.cumminsnursery.com/rootstocks.htm has to offer .

I am in agreement w/ both Clint and Clark. One the one hand, the initial investment of purchased trees is very small compared to the total expense of raising fruit. Off the top of my head, I would estimate the initial cost of the tree to be fairly negligible compared to the labor/equipment/site prep/spraying costs of raising fruit. The bounty of the first year of a full harvest will dwarf the cost of the tree.

When I remove any peach trees, I post an ad on Craiglist and have been able to sell any mature peach trees I want to cut down - as well as any major prunings of scaffolds. I sell mature peach trees for $20 for people who want to use the wood for smoking meats/cheeses, which theoretically reimburses the initial cost of the peach tree. I've been able to sell these trees/prunings w/in about 48hrs. on Craigslist, so the demand seems to be good. I do have to cut up the tree/wood in short pieces.

In spite of all this, I do graft a fair amount of peach trees for planting every year. This fall I budded about 65 trees-of which about 55 were peach. By the time I figured in graft failures, I'd guess I saved several hundred dollars in purchased trees, which seems to be a fair return on the labor I put into it.

So on the one hand I wouldn't be too concerned about the initial cost of purchased trees, because it's such a small portion of the total cost and easily recoverable. But on the other hand, it's not hard to graft trees, so individuals can save themselves some money if they want to take the effort.

I think Milehigh's post is an interesting method of propagating suckers, and perhaps and easy way of expanding an orchard.

Thanks Olpea for the post you can tell there is a lot of experience in what your saying. 65 trees is no small number to plant and graft. I call that hard work sweat equity but I do love it. I was considering taking a 5 gallon bucket with the bottom cut out and dropping it over some of the pear or apple suckers I see and filling it with dirt. Then I could go back the next year and cut the suckers off at ground level and plant them in rows using the theory that they will root all the way up to the dirt line and repeat the process when they grew back up. My old fashioned kieffer suckers 1 or 2 suckers per year. It's a delicious pear in our way of thinking with little grit and strongly reminds you of the flavor of canned pears. Who knows I think I've discussed it before and the old fashioned one may not be a kieffer at all because it tastes nothing like the new and improved kieffer.

I've started a number of apricot plantings from seed. One was a wind break of about 100 trees others around my house. None had great fruit but some was pretty good.

Plant a seed and graft if needed. Can't get much cheaper than that.

I've got seeds saved from most of my stone fruit harvest this summer. I'm planting that as soon as the soil cools down, about Dec 1.

It seems suckers are less likely to root if they have been exposed to air for awhile. I think results will be better if some patches of the bark are shaved off before covering with light potting material (aged saw dust, peat moss, perlite, ect.). Better yet, brush some rooting hormone on the shaved areas. Basically, this is a variation of air layering.

Fruitnut that's a great way to go I love that! I grow a few manchurian apricots and some sweet pits. Nyrockfarmer that's a good point a little clonex rooting gel might help at that. Thanks for the advice I use rooting gel hormone when I make cuttings. I root cuttings in sand and turn jars over the top of them to control humidity. That's a great way to root fruit bushes inside under a grow light for example. When I was a kid some friends of my parents grew grapes that way outside in the spring and then removed the jar before the cooking summer heat started.