Commercial growers use about six or even more. This year there was one site I covered apples with pristine just once- probably in the first week of Aug or last of July and the fruit was surprisingly clean. Probably helped by very dry conditions but unsprayed trees nearby had lots of blotch and speck. It might have just been lucky that this year the spray was done at the perfect moment because of one time weather factors.

I haven't experimented much with least spray stategies for summer fungus but most years it seems to require very persistent spraying from about July 7 until Aug 21st. I do it every two weeks.

Actually, a couple of season ago it was a monsoon for most of August and I should have done one more spray at the turn of Aug.

At least a third spray. To reduce costs and environmental impact consider spraying sulfur for control of sooty blotch and fly speck as well as moderate control of other potential fungal issues. For one dollar you can spray A LOT of sulfur.
I have a fair amount of experience with sulfur and it is my opinion that it is at least as effective (I think better than) as any synthetic spray for issues like sooty blotch, flyspeck and mildews. It also provides lesser control of CAR and scab and has the additional benefit of being miticide and controlling scale and aphids.

Appleseed, I doubt that you can find any research that supports your anecdote. For one thing, sulfur must be re-applied after moderate to heavy rain. It is not nearly as affective as the best synthetic fungicides for the purpose, as I understand it, although I haven't actually tried sulfur. The research has indicated it's not real affective according to this particular guideline.

Here is a link that might be useful: comparing fungicides for the control of summer fungus

Good to know . Thanks!

Harvestman...sulfur needs to be reapplied no more than any other spray. It persists quite well...in fact VERY well. I don't care what any synthetic chemical company's literature wants to say. Leave it to you to start challenging me to find some "anectdotal" evidence PROVING otherwise. I'll tell you this my friend...I can find a ton more evidence to counter your BS prescribed 2 spray program than you can in countering my suggestion of sulfur...wanna bet?
Sulfur DOES control these issues....PERIOD! Shall I have to prove that as well?
I just posted pictures of absolutely perfect...yes...PERFECT apples that were almost entirely sprayed with sulfur as their PRIMARY fungicide. Only late was anything else applied, and for CAR foliage control...nothing else. Where are your photos that show PERFECT fruit produced using this 2-3 spray program...where? There aren't any because it's not achievable....it's just not...and you know it.
The OP showed an interest in reduced sprays; indicating to me that possibly human toxicity, environmental issues or cost were areas of concern for him. Sulfur is a spray that somewhat addresses these issues...does it not?
I can smell sulfur on the fruit long, long after the odor of synthetic sprays has vanished along with their effectiveness. Is that scientific proof of it's holding power...no it is not, but it's something. The proof is in the pudding as they say and I've never had issue with sooty blotch or flyspeck in past years using NOTHING but sulfur as a fungicide. Meanwhile my neighbors unkept trees and those at the end of my road are covered with it. Is that the anecdotal evidence you speak of?
I'll tell you this my friend...if the original poster kept his trees pruned properly and applied sulfur regularly (on a normal spray program) he'd have no issues with SB or FS. That's right harvestman...nothing but sulfur. SB and FS are easy to control. Only when attempting a silly 2 spray schedule will you have those issues and I don't care what you spray. Are you disagreeing with that?

BTW...I mentioned cost for the aforementioned reasons...so tell me harvestman...how much Pristine can you spray for $1...that's right...how much for one U.S. Dollar? How much of whatever your link prescribes can you spray for a buck? Tell me about it's holding power too...you know, after a rainstorm. Tell me also about it's miticidal properties as well. I'll be anxiously awaiting your proof of scientific research ad nauseum.

I've not sprayed Pristine BTW, and have no doubt it's a good fungicide ( it damn well better be )...nor do I know what it's mix rates are. I DO know this...it IS currently on auction on ebay for $549.89 for 7.5 lbs.
OR...you could buy 4 lbs. of sulfur for around $ 10 - 12.
1 Tbsp. per gallon will give you a good anti-fungal spray. I don't know how many gals you could mix with 4 lbs., but I do know it's a lot...one 15 gal. mix won't even make a dent in the bag.
Sulfur has been around and been used by apple growers and orchardists centuries before harvestman ever ate his first apple. I figure those folks probably learned by observation a thing or two along the way. Anecdotal evidence be damned...it must work...eh? Yeah...and science proves this beyond all shadow of doubt. I'm not at all surprised, but I bet harvestman is beside himself. How could they figure this out without federally funded scientific "research" available online? Impossible.
Just Google sulfur..check out wikipedia...read it's interesting properties and all it's uses over the centuries...very interesting. Borax is another interesting naturally occurring chemical, also having fungicidal and insecticidal properties.

Appleeed70 I've not used sulphur but have heard to water the soil prior to use because it can burn plants under stress from drought but wondered if you had any experience with it burning plants? The recipes I know of said spray once per week 3 table spoons per gallon, is that much not needed? Can you give us a link with which powder to buy off of amazon? I know some is said to clump up worse than others and clog the sprayer nozzle. I'm thinking of using diatomaceous earth next year as an insect control for Japanese beetles. I'm not sure it would be 100% effective though a friend swears by it and does insect control for his occupation. Could I replace captan / Immunox with sulphur as my fungicide? I'm using Triazicide as my insect control. You had mentioned Bordeaux and it does sound like a great way to go as a dormant spray.

Here is a link that might be useful: Bordeaux spray

This post was edited by ClarkinKS on Sun, Oct 5, 14 at 5:08

johnthecook using Immunox and captan this year several times alternatively we did not get any sooty blotch. We've also never had it but neighboring properties do have it.

some apples that are perfect.

Another one.

Last, but not least!

I will have harvested probably around 500 apples from my small orchard with the 2 spray program. Yes many have had Sooty Blotch, but I think Harvestman in the past has mentioned that with the low spray program you will get good supply of apples , not apples like from an orchard that is constantly spraying and watching daily for bugs and diseases. These are Jonagold, Golden Russet, and Macoun and seem to have more resistance to Sooty Blotch. In the past years compared to others like Goldrush, Golden delicious, Crimson Crisp, Crimson Gold and a few others I have. I also have Liberty apples that because of their disease resistance are almost all perfect on the tree.

Appleseed, you need to go back and re-read your post above, its rude and personally insulting. Please stick to the facts next time.

I was 100% organic for ten years and sprayed a whole lot of sulphur. I still use a lot of it and I agree its a great spray. But, you need to apply it every two weeks or after a hard rain for results. You can smell it after a hard rain but you are smelling the stuff on the ground -- it all washed off the trees. What I do is use sulphur with pretty much every Surround spray I put on in the spring, so its just going into a tank I am already doing. I use 2-3 tbsp sulphur per gallon, I am surprised you can get results with so little. I have one bag of Kumulus sulphur which I am halfway through and I have one jar of Eagle (myclobutanil) I am less than halfway through, both cost me $40 or so ten years ago... you are not saving any money by using sulphur.

I now usually do one synthetic spray a year, this year I sprayed myclobutanil in May. Its mainly for CAR; sulphur did very little for that. This year I also tried a spray in early July to see if that would dampen the sooty blotch etc but it was about like it always was. I didn't do any spraying at all from early July on. I also had bad problems with summer rots this year, way more than usual, and that surely would have been helped by more summer spraying. In looking at how the summer diseases developed I think later July would have been the time I should have done a summer disease spray, the early July one was a little early.

Scott

Johnthecook those are great looking apples. harvestmans technique seems to work well for you now.

It has Clark! Lots of my apples are going in to cider this year which is fun to make. I may even try making a little home brew this year. I don't mind the sooty Blotch so much. I just want to start having ones I can keep for a while.

scottsmith...what I find personally insulting and what you are unaware of is that every comment I make harvestman pounces challenging me to find research and post evidence of it. Not just me either...he done the same with mrgreen a few weeks ago.

The directions for mixture on sulfur calls for 1-3 tbsp. per gallon and yes...I use 3, though I've used 1 with reasonably satisfactory results.
The smell I detect is not on the ground, it's on the apples...I can smell them when I bring them inside for washing. I have Bonide micronized sulfur 4 lb. bag and cost $8 when I bought it a few years ago from Southern States...it's now $11 in store and they are often somewhat high, but based on costs I see on ebay it appears it has gone up a bit. I should add scott...I am not organic at all...far from it, I'll spray anything. I choose to spray sulfur because my experience has strongly suggested it is dollar for dollar the most effective overall fungicide available. I wouldn't (and didn't) recommend sulfur for CAR and am aware that there are other products that do better jobs for some things but SB and FS are easily controlled with sulfur.
Scott...you know more than me, but I've yet to see any spray be effective longer than 2 weeks after rain...sulfur is no exclusion in this regard...sure it washes off, as do all other sprays. The systemic properties of say myclo are wildly exaggerated.

ClarkKS: I've not heard any mention of sulfur and drought stricken plants although I do not doubt it. Sulfur has warnings against foliage damage on two types of apples...Jonathan being one and I forget the other and also Concord grape (BTW..Pristine carries the same warning about Concord grape). I've sprayed everything including Concord anytime and never once had any issue with foliage damage whatsoever. It warns against spraying in temps over 80 F.
Clark, I don't know how diotamaceous earth could be effective for Japanese beatles since they are a flying insect. I thought the diotamaceous earth worked by slicing the soft bellies of crawling bugs. Maybe there is something about JB lifecycle I am unaware of. Carbaryl is highly effective for JB for me, but I will not recommend it because I will surely be prompted to provide empirical scientific research based evidence proving it

Johnthecook: that is incredible looking apples with a 2 spray program...here that would be an absolute impossibility. If you are getting that good of results with harvestmans patented 2 spray program then I'd stick with it. I spray the same stuff he recommends and more and that amount of spray won't get me beyond May. It doesn't work with commercial growers either.
It looks like 1 of your 2 sprays were applied right before the last photo was taken as it appears heavy spray residue can be seen on the apples.
John...what is your spray timing and insecticide choice for PC control? Are the months of June and July no-spray months in your program? John could you help me to know how to achieve similar results?

Appleseed, you needn't be offended by being contradicted, it is the nature of a public forum.

You seem to be stating that your experience has more legitimacy than that of commercial growers producing both organic and conventional apples- that they must be dupes to spend money on more expensive fungicides to treat summer fungus.

As you say, sulfur has been around for centuries, and if you study old paintings of fruit in bowls you will likely often see ample summer fungus on the fruit (as well as curc scars, for that matter).

The organic apple guru, Michael Phillips, does not recommend its use to treat summer fungus because it is, in his words, "unproven".

That is a pretty good indication it is not terribly affective, because it surely has been widely tested, being such an important material for other types of fungus management. It is widely used by conventional and organic growers for brown rot in stone fruit and for scab in apples by organic growers. Those evil pesticide manufacturers haven't been able to prevent this.

As far as my low spray program, it has become very common in our region for general tree care companies to practice it because, if you time the applications well, it is usually at least adequately affective.

I started using it over twenty years ago after reading of Dr. Prokopy's work at UMass, which showed it could be used effectively for the control of plum curculio.

I still welcome any evidence you have that suggests my spray schedule can't work and won't be offended if you provide it- even though I will keep using what works for me as I suspect you will do with sulfur.

The reason anecdotal observation here is a problem (besides perhaps clouding the atmosphere for those seeking legitimate solutions) is that weather conditions vary every year and vastly affect fungus pressure. If you want to test your method you can always leave whole branches or separate trees of equal susceptibility unsprayed.

Clark : here is an Amazon link you requested. It is $12.99, but it's a 5 lb. bag. There may be some cheaper, this is just the first one I cam across with free shipping.
http://www.amazon.com/Pounds-Sulfur-Powder-Organic-Listed/dp/B00HAR7EIC

There are zero issues with clumping or nozzle clogging Clark, in fact, I never even agitate the tank, just dump the powder and fill quickly.

Could I replace captan / Immunox with sulphur as my fungicide? I'm using Triazicide as my insect control.

And achieve the same or similar results? Maybe...maybe not. Most likely no because their modes of operation are different therefore each will have it's own niche in which it is most effective. I think mixing in sulfur is a great way to reduce fungicide costs while still providing good protection. Immunox and Captan are both good fungicides and widely used, but both are fairly expensive and like sulfur they too have their limitations. Both also suffer from resistance build up in the orchard particularly Myclobutanil and it is only supposed to be sprayed 3 times per season max. Sulfur does not suffer from resistance issues and that is a strong point in it's favor. While I cannot scientifically prove it, my instinct says alternating different fungicides may be the best option while maintaining sulfur as the primary. Sulfur reportedly has only fair control of CAR, which is an issue for me here. For SB and FS however it could easily function as a single fungicidal spray.
Also...we were just talking apples with mildews here...peaches etc are a whole different story. I can't get perfect peaches no matter how much or what I spray...and I've sprayed them with nearly everything in the past including chlorothalonil, myclobutanil, captan, and sulfur. Chlorothalonil, BTW I think is not supposed to be sprayed after fruit formation, but I did anyway...totally ineffective for everything I've ever used it for.

You had mentioned Bordeaux and it does sound like a great way to go as a dormant spray.

Clark, I think you are confusing me with someone else. I never mentioned Bordeaux, though I agree it has always sounded like a good option for some things. I've personally never sprayed it. I have however heard of foliage damage occurring with it's application.

You seem to be stating that your experience has more legitimacy than that of commercial growers producing both organic and conventional apples- that they must be dupes to spend money on more expensive fungicides to treat summer fungus

I'm not suggesting that at all...not at all. Are you suggesting commercial growers are "dupes" for applying 10 or more sprays per year when you claim 2 is adequate? You are purposefully taking my post out of context...let me refresh for you. John is happy with your 2 spray program. A 2 spray program would be considered by almost everyone to be way on the low side. So...it seems to me John was interested in low spray, so he may be interested in an organic inexpensive option to control SB and FS. And you are wrong...there is plenty of evidence that it controls both. I'm not saying sulfur is the best fungicide for everything...if I thought that I wouldn't have a plethora of fungicides in my spray cabinet.
Harvestman...John seems to have no issues with his Liberty using your 2 spray program. I thought Liberty was a "magnet" for apple maggot and coddling moth. How then would I control (using properly timed sprays) PC, AM, CM not to mention other bugs JB etc all this with 1 spray? I can see one spray was applied late by Johns photos, so that leaves just one spray to provide "adequate" protection?

Appleseed, you needn't be offended by being contradicted, it is the nature of a public forum.
I'm not at all offended by being contradicted. I am however offended at the constant contradiction and demanding of scientific research...constant. It's ok though...I can live with it, just be prepared to enjoy the same in return. I have no issues with someone calling me out either, but if I disagree, don't expect me to tuck tail and go away quietly.

Perhaps you'd like to provide evidence of the foliar N applications on Apples you posted to someone the other day. Remember...I read ALL your evidence and it supported no such thing in apples in fact, quite the contrary.

Why are you assuming that sulfurs effectiveness is only anecdotal?
My reading has also suggested that Sooty blotch begins in early spring during wet/damp cool conditions. Is it a summer fungus, or does it manifest itself in outward appearance in the summer. I wouldn't know because I spray a lot of sulfur, so I've never had it.

The organic apple guru, Michael Phillips, does not recommend its use to treat summer fungus because it is, in his words, "unproven

Well...I know Phillips is a big proponent of sulfur and I cannot know where and how this quote was used. There are many who use sulfur harvestman and not all of them are organic growers in case you didn't know.

Appleseed70 thanks for the info. I must have confused you with someone else on the Bordeaux. Japanese beetles start there life cycle as grubs that feed on grass roots and diotamaceous earth is effective against them in that stage. That is why you see moles in peoples yards because they feed on grubs. I know I'm reacting to the sooty blotch problem when I say this and not preventing it but why cant you give apples a bath in mild bleach solution with a good rinse off afterwards? johnthecook if you are using them for cider etc.. that sounds great and you wont need to worry about the sooty blotch.

This post was edited by ClarkinKS on Sun, Oct 5, 14 at 14:52

I did the first spray after the last of the flower petals were gone and then two weeks later. The pictures were this morning so I'm not sure what you mean by heavy spray residue. I also have been spraying two other people who have planted a few apple trees and their apples look about the same as mine.

Appleseed, I believe hman is suggesting for those who are growing fruit in their backyard and who don't depend on their apple crop profits to feed their families don't need to do more than two sprays. Commercial growers should never do only two sprays, they need a very high degree of certainty that they are going to harvest a large unblemished crop.

I just looked up some studies of how sulphur works on SB/FS. Its a lot better than nothing, the incidence was about 1/3 compared to doing no sprays. Interestingly lime-sulphur did a lot better than wettable sulphur. I have seen that for other diseases as well. The studies I found were using 4-6 sprays over the summer. I agree with your point about developing resistance, sulphur has a big advantage there and its one of the reasons why I like it so much.

The problem I have is its too hot here in the summer to get in sulphur sprays, its above 80 for weeks on end. So I mainly use it in spring. Even if I manage to get in sprays on cooler midsummer days I find the trees suffer when it heats up and there is still sulphur present on the leaves. Maybe I should use lime-sulphur instead of powdered sulphur.

Scott

Scott, it would be interesting to see those studies- are they based on east coast conditions and based on a similar number of aps as would be used with, say, Mancozeb? How bout a link?

I looked for such studies and couldn't find them before I contradicted Appleseed. The University of Illinois bulletin I provided had a comparison of various fungicides and rated sulfur as poor at controlling it. I couldn't find a single credible source that recommended it- but google isn't what it used to be.

Captan is inexpensive and rated at fair to good and Mancozeb, also inexpensive, is rated as excellent (although there are restrictions in its use).

Appleseed, instead of complaining, why not just supply the evidence of which you speak- that is all I'm asking for. When you claim sulfur works as well as the other much more expensive fungicides (and that there's plenty of evidence out there) you may create real disappointment if someone follows your advice and doesn't get control. But if you can show me the evidence I will stand corrected.

Also I never claimed that my two spray program would work necessarily as well as a higher spray approach. I give people who ask for it a fairly complete description of it and talk about the issues you mentioned like AFM and J. beetles. Never have I suggested that other pests will never appear requiring more sprays.

I'm trying to follow this thread and it's tough to do. Sorry if I'm a little all over the place with my answers. I did not do a late spray as I answered up above, it looks to me like apples covered in dew from an October morning. My orchard is only 5 years old and I haven't probably had the insect problems yet. This summer was the first noticeable attack of PC and they did hit me hard so I will have to watch them for next year and figure out what to use.

Clark how much bleach for washing is necessary? I would do that if it helps clean them up.

Harvestman....is this a court of law here at the Garden Web? A court of law where I (or whoever you choose to disagree with) is WRONG until we PROVE ourselves right? Is that what you think? If so, how is that you seem to have appointed yourself the judge and jury?
What lofty opinion of yourself you must hold. Can I be the judge? Do I simply have to create a meaningless disagreement and then place the the burden on whoever to prove to ME (the judge) they are indeed correct?
If that's your view of dialogue...sorry I'm out...not interested in silly games.

I have a fair amount of experience with sulfur and it is my opinion that it is at least as effective (I think better than) as any synthetic spray for issues like sooty blotch, flyspeck and mildews. It also provides lesser control of CAR and scab and has the additional benefit of being miticide and controlling scale and aphids.

Harvestman...did you read where I said "it is my opinion"? Can you read and comprehend basic English? Does that sound like a scientific statement of fact requiring supportive evidence or a statement of opinion?
RIGHT!...a statement of opinion.

NOW...lets get something straight you and I. You may have appointed yourself as judge...but you see I'm not having any of it. I need to prove nothing to you...ever...for any reason.
Too bad you don't hold your own posts up to the same level of scrutiny that you seem to with myself and others.

Harvestman, I didn't link to any of the studies because there wasn't one particularly complete one. Here is one showing how in bad years sulphur doesn't do well at all: study -- see the conclusion. Here is a study where 4-5 sprays of lime-sulphur and sulphur led to a big reduction in sooty blotch: study. Here is another study where sulphur sometimes helped a lot and sometimes not a super lot: study. I didn't read far enough down this last paper last time, I only saw figure 4 and the later figures show sulphur reducing the incidence by only a third whereas figure 4's results are more like 2/3rds. So, I'd revise my above to state that sulphur reduces sooty blotch by about a half compared to not spraying it. At least based on how it was applied in these studies. And, it varies widely how effective it will be.

None of these studies compare with synthetics, but clearly sulphur is doing much worse than synthetics.

Scott

There a lot of unique apple trees started from seed on my parents land that show how genetics play a roll in apple resistance to sooty blotch. There is one tree that gets completely covered with sooty blotch such that the apples look rotted on the tree. It is hard to believe that they clean up to a crisp, bright red apple. At the other extreme, there is green-yellow baking type that doesn't really get any sooty blotch from what I remember. It does get some flyspeck though. Knowing the relative resistance of tree and the intended use of the apples would be factors in deciding on an adequate type of treatment for a minimalist.

Of course, climate is also a big factor and the actual weather in the weeks leading up to harvest should also be factored into expectations when following a minimalist approach. However, it would take few years of experience to get a good feel for the patterns and their expected outcomes.

Thank you for the useful clarification, Scott, and the effort it involved. Very helpful.

The problem I have is its too hot here in the summer to get in sulphur sprays, its above 80 for weeks on end. So I mainly use it in spring. Even if I manage to get in sprays on cooler midsummer days I find the trees suffer when it heats up and there is still sulphur present on the leaves. Maybe I should use lime-sulphur instead of powdered sulphur.

Scott

Scott, I said 80F because I'd read that suggestion online some time ago. The directions on my particular sulfur actually states above 90F. Not a big deal but just thought I'd mention it.
As far as using lime-sulfur unless you are up for cooking your own where would you buy it? I looked everywhere a while back and was unable to find it. Both Bonide and Hi-Yield both seem to have recently discontinued it. No offerings on ebay whatsoever. Only thing I can find it for veterinary purposes.
I came across a few articles suggesting it has been banned. Oddly, some seem to believe it is because folks were apparently using it to commit suicide by heating it. I do know that cooking it is said to be dangerous because of a gas produced in it's manufacture. Don't hold me to it, but I seem to remember it being hydrogen sulfide.
There may be something to that rumour because I actually found directions for "painless suicide mixture" online using bonide lime-sulfur and some other stuff.

Appleseed, I have several years supply of lime sulphur and have not looked for it recently. I like it so much I will probably cook up my own if it remains unavailable. It used to be something every farmer cooked up by themselves, it was hard to ship due to toxicity but relatively easy to make on-site. I'm not sure why its not available but it could be the cost associated with registration.

Re: the temperature I have seen plants looking unhappy in the heat with sulphur on them, even if it was put on at a cooler temp. So its not the 80 vs 90 on the label, its more what I have seen in my orchard. It sounds like you are not having so much problem with it in the heat. Maybe my plants would have looked unhappy even without the sulphur.

Scott

I bought mine from Schlabach nursery this past spring but I can't remember how much I paid for it.

I bought mine from Schlabach nursery this past spring but I can't remember how much I paid for it.

Good to know mamuang. I followed your advice a while back and contacted Schlabach. Maybe I'll order a bit from them if they still sell it and it's reasonable. Was there any brand name on it? Could they be cooking it themselves? I just did another search tonight and apparently it's no longer available anywhere.

I came across some lime sulfur at a dollar store a little while back and really stocked up - I think I have a lifetime supply! The nastiest stuff I know of to apply and the smell won't quit, you almost need a hazmat suit for the purpose. And the odor of this stuff travels - no winning popularity contests with the neighbors with this on your trees. Haven't used it for sooty blotch though, just prefer ugly apples to smelly ones.

Is it really that bad creek? I would think any foul smell would eminate from the sulfur alone, which to me, isn't that bad at all. Compared to say Malathion or worse Imidan, sulfurs odor is like an English garden. To me sulfur smells not like rotten eggs, but rather like matches when first lit.
I guess the lime reaction releases the odor...is it like a sewer gas smell? I think that's the hydrogen sulfide. I'd love to try some...interested in a equitable swap for Imidan, of which I have a overabundance?
Be careful spraying lime-sulfur, I read it's a very powerful lung irritant. I read a post from a guy who got pneumonia from it and almost died.

Johnthecook I was asking a question about using bleach and not giving advice but I googled it and found some info on this site were they used bleach http://www.foodsafetysite.com/educators/competencies/consumers/produce/produce2.html

You might google and see if FDA etc. Has advice because I don't know. Thanks

This post was edited by ClarkinKS on Tue, Oct 7, 14 at 5:37

Appleseed,

It's a Hi-Yield brand. The nursery put the bottle in a plastic bag tied with a rubber band for shipping. I did not smell anything when it arrived. I have not used it yet.

I remember when I used lime sulphur (Bonide brand then) way back around 2008, it did not smell that bad. I did not wear any gear to protect myself but a pair of gloves (due to ignorance, of course).

I cannot find lime sulphur around my area anymore.

Bad new about lime sulpur by Colin Lewis

To get straight to the point: Lime sulfur is now totally banned in 46 states. Of the remaining four states, two only permit the use of lime sulfur under special license and the other two are currently processing a total ban. According the State of Maine the primary consideration is the potential effect of residual lime sulfur on ground water, not because of the risk to users. (Oregon State University, the major researcher into such things, describes it as having “low mammalian toxicity”.)

Until recently, the penalties for ignoring the bans in the prohibiting states were imposed on the user. However, now the penalties ��" and not insignificant penalties ��" are imposed on suppliers who ship lime sulfur (calcium polysulfide) to prohibiting states. Some nurseries will still have residual stocks, but that will not last long. Some importers will continue to acquire lime sulfur from Japan, but as soon as the first one falls foul of the law the others will cease.

Hello. Newbie here. I am just a homeowner with two apple trees, which are strictly for our own family use. I have exactly ONE Golden Delicious tree with black splotches all over the skins of the apples. Other tree right next to it is a Red Delicious--no black splotch problems at all. In order for the fabulous information above to do me any good, I need to know terminology better. Is there a place here with ID photos of diseases, fungi issues, etc? Here is a photo of my specific issue:
{{gwi:124861}}
Is this "Sooty Blotch?" The black marks are within the skin, and do not wash off. Thanks!

I have neglected pruning for two years, and the only time I attempted spraying dormant oil, I had to quit because I was getting it all over myself. I do not have fancy spray equipment or hazmat suits available, and the hand-pumped spray tank forced me to be too close. I figured that the tree produces more apples than we can use anyway, and I just chose the best-looking apples. But this year the black spots are much worse than usual. I don't need the apples to look perfect, but I would like them to look appealing enough for the grandkids to want to eat fresh, right off the tree.

It does appear to be sooty blotch to me based on the photo but sooty blotch does wash off and is not in the skin. Read up on the info in the pdf as it will have additional details.

Here is a link that might be useful: sooty blotch and fly speck PDF

It's sooty blotch. I was going to say earlier that it always seemed to me that the lighter/yellow apples seemed more prone to it, but then thought it was probably just that it was more visible.
I've gathered free GD before that had SB (not quite as bad as in your photo) and most of it didn't wash off either. There will be no damage underneath the skin, but they are so unappealing to me in that condition that I wouldn't even bother. For those that don't mind it I know it's harmless...for me though it's just the nasty/dirty factor.

Lump, I don't think the oil is much more dangerous to you than vaseline (it doesn't poison insects, it smothers them) but it wouldn't have helped fending off most pests in any case and not sooty blotch. You must have been spraying in the wind, right?

If you can get apples that are as sound as the one in the photo without spray you are fortunate, but If sooty blotch is that heavy I suppose it can be hard to wash off, even with a nylon scrub pad. Opening up the tree a lot by removing whole branches would probably help some- certainly more so than oil.

Thanks for the information. It is very helpful, and very interesting.
This blotch won't scrub off, period. It seems to be imbedded within the skin.
Glad to hear that the dormant oil is not terribly toxic. I'll do it again next early spring in that case. I do have worm holes, etc. But there are literally thousands of apples on this tree each year, and a small percentage of them look pretty good without spray...which is more than we can use. But the blotch is WAY worse this year.
Pruning? Yes, my tree grows like a bionic WEED! Miss pruning two seasons, and it is quickly full and thick with branches, and maybe 8-10 feet taller! After reading all this, I will prune it for sure this time.

Thanks so much. I have more questions, which I will post later. Love this forum.

Just so you know Lump ( it seems there may be a misunderstanding) dormant oil will do exactly nothing for sooty blotch...you know that...right? You need to spray a fungicide and getting your tree pruned (as suggested by others) to allow in sunlight and adequate airflow will also help a great deal. You are going to be surprised by the quality of fruit if you do the pruning and do a decent spray program.

It seems strange that the blotch doesn't scrub off at all. It is not a systemic disease and shouldn't penetrate the skin. Can anyone explain this?

Just wondering if after you clean off the sooty blotch is it ok to eat the skin or should you still peel the skin? I was able to clean my apples with water and a scrubber sponge!