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Do Blueberries Still Need Acidic Soil If Soil Fertile?

Posted by Andrew7a 7a (My Page) on
Tue, Oct 29, 13 at 18:44

I just planted blueberries in my garden late this past summer, more or less on a whim, because I saw that Home Depot was getting ready to throw their unsold plants in a tip to make space for their fall lineup. I did a little research and found that blueberries like acidic soil because a low soil pH makes certain nutrients - Fe, Mn, Zn Cu, Co, and up to a point, P - more available. I had my soil tested and it turns out that I live in an area with some of the most fertile soil in the country. At a pH of 6.7, my garden's soil already has above optimal quantities of available major nutrients for blueberries, and has an abundance of available micronutrients like Iron and Magnesium. I have begun applying a mixture of powdered sulfur and dissolved ferrous iron sulfate to my blueberry patch as instructed by the soil testing lab, but I am now wondering if I should continue doing so. If my soil is providing an overabundance of nutrients to my bushes at a pH of 6.7, and lowering the pH will only increase the availability of those nutrients, might this not actually be bad for them?


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RE: Do Blueberries Still Need Acidic Soil If Soil Fertile?

  • Posted by fruitnut z7b-8a,4500ft SW TX (My Page) on
    Tue, Oct 29, 13 at 18:50

Follow the labs instructions for blueberry. Your plants might be OK at 6.7 but lowering the pH to 5 or slightly lower won't hurt and will probably help.


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RE: Do Blueberries Still Need Acidic Soil If Soil Fertile?

The PH is so important, but agree an over abundance will not help them. The sulfur won't even work probably till next spring. I would not add the iron sulfate if you have plenty of iron., I would test PH in spring, then add more sulfur to get it to 4.5 to 5.0. logarithmic so your soil need to be 170 times more acidic than it is before you added anything. Compost, or garden soil do pretty much nothing for blueberries, you need peat and pine bark fines. Without it, it is hard to maintain PH. That mix is pretty nutrient poor, so organics like cottonseed meal or Holly-Tone needs to be added. Or with Ammonium sulfate, which the plants love too! If synthetics fits your needs better. Don't use compost or garden soil, it can increase PH too much. Mulch with pine bark or pine straw. Don't let it dry out, keep moist, but not wet. Infrequent long waterings are better than frequent short ones. Lot's of sun too.
So to sum it up your PH is way off and you put it in completely wrong type of soil. Unless both are corrected the plant may live, but not thrive. If you correct it the plant will grow 4-6 feet tall and produce pounds and pounds of blueberries.


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RE: Do Blueberries Still Need Acidic Soil If Soil Fertile?

Fruitnut is absolutely right. The answer to your question is yes, they'll do best in acidic soil (fertility aside). The crux is that your soil isn't necessarily "providing an overabundance of nutrients to [your] bushes at a pH of 6.7." Those nutrients might be present, but, if the pH isn't right, your plants will have more difficulty accessing them. That's not to say that it's impossible to grow blueberries at pH 6.7 -- just that your odds of success will be higher if your pH is lower.


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RE: Do Blueberries Still Need Acidic Soil If Soil Fertile?

Andrew,

Think of it this way.....if your refrigerator and cupboards were all packed solid with food but your mouth was sewed shut would you get enough to eat?

The lower PH allows the plants to take up what they need. You could have the richest soil on earth but if the PH gets too high the plants decline.

I have to disagree with Drew when he says "Infrequent long waterings are better than frequent short ones"

While that is true for most plants BB are shallow rooted so more frequent applications of water keeps the upper levels of the soil most where all their roots are. Mulch helps a ton.


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RE: Do Blueberries Still Need Acidic Soil If Soil Fertile?

Thank you all for replying. One of the reasons I am asking this is because the soil analysis I had done shows the quantities of nutrients in my soil that are in available form for uptake by plants, as opposed to the quantities of the elements (N, P, K, Fe, Ca and Mg) bound up in the soil. (If they had shown the quantity of elements present, iron would have been through the roof because I'm on red clay alfisol.) The only nutrient I was instructed to provide was nitrogen, as a matter of course rather than to address a particular deficiency.

I don't have any experience yet growing blueberries, but in the soil I'm working with, I've been growing mountain laurel, rhododendrons, hydrangeas and azaleas. All four of them grow vigorously and flower profusely every year. I've never fertilized or done anything to the soil other than keep it mulched with leaves every autumn, and the biggest challenge these plants pose for me is keeping them in check. I thought this might be an indication that my soil already provides ample nutrition for acid loving plants, even at a higher pH than what they typically need in poorer soils.

It can't hurt to find out, I guess, what will happen when I lower the pH. I've put down the first half of the recommended amount of sulfur. I guess I'll just have the soil tested in the spring to see what the pH does and gauge how my bushes are responding.


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RE: Do Blueberries Still Need Acidic Soil If Soil Fertile?

  • Posted by fruitnut z7b-8a,4500ft SW TX (My Page) on
    Wed, Oct 30, 13 at 11:13

Andrew if all those other plants are thriving then your blueberries will also. With that information I'd change my suggestion and tell you to wait on adding more sulfur. See how the blueberries grow then you can decide.

Next spring is too early to take another soil test. The sulfur takes longer than that to show full effect. The bacteria that convert it to sulfuric acid won't do much over winter.


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RE: Do Blueberries Still Need Acidic Soil If Soil Fertile?

Who knows -- your blueberries might do OK. I've read anecdotal reports from growers who do have higher than optimal pH and do just fine, but all of the university research that I've seen says otherwise. Problems usually arise because of blueberry bushes' somewhat unique adaptations. For one, they don't grow root hairs. In most other plants, root hairs secrete an acid that makes certain minerals soluble. Blueberries, on the other hand, depend on soil pH and microbiological action to make those minerals available. They're also not very efficient users of nitrogen in the form of nitrates. In the nitrogen cycle, organic forms of nitrogen begin as ammonium and then are converted to nitrites and then nitrates (I think I have that right) by bacteria. Those bacteria only operate at higher soil pH, though, so they're not generally present in low pH soils. Therefore, in low pH soils, nitrogen is more commonly available as ammonium. It's not surprising, then, that blueberries are very efficient users of ammonium and not so good with nitrates.


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RE: Do Blueberries Still Need Acidic Soil If Soil Fertile?

  • Posted by ericwi Dane County WI (My Page) on
    Wed, Oct 30, 13 at 11:28

A healthy blueberry plant will have deep green leaves, during the growing season. They will be a lighter green when they emerge in the spring, but the leaves should get darker in several months. A healthy plant will approximately double in size every year, for the first 2 or 3 years. On older plants, you can tell that they are growing because the branches will get too dense, and the shrub will have to be pruned. If you are able to grow other ericaceous plants with good success, then you should be able to grow blueberries using the same methods. Since blueberries have most of their roots near the surface, it is possible that the mulch you are using is feeding your plants as it breaks down. The soil pH might be near optimum where the roots are growing. A pH test done on soil taken from a deeper location could indicate alkaline pH, even though the pH at the surface is more acidic. As you have shown, the ericaceous plants can grow successfully in a thin layer of broken down leaf litter over clay base soil with pH that is higher than optimum. The mulch you are using must be having a positive impact on your blueberry shrubs.


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RE: Do Blueberries Still Need Acidic Soil If Soil Fertile?

If you decide to stop adding sulfur and take a wait and see approach, you might want to try a thick mulch of pine bark fines. While the fines won't necessarily lower the pH of the soil underneath, the horizon where the two meet will likely be somewhat acidified as the fines break down. If the mulch is thick enough, your plants will also spread roots into it and potentially find harder to get nutrients that way, especially if you incorporate an organic fertilizer into the mulch (but don't overdo it). The mulch will also help to keep the soil cooler and damper, both of which are advantageous for blueberries' shallow root systems.

EDIT: I see that Eric said much the same thing while I was working on this post. I definitely second his opinion...

This post was edited by shazaam on Wed, Oct 30, 13 at 11:38


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RE: Do Blueberries Still Need Acidic Soil If Soil Fertile?

The other plants listed even though are acid loving, they grow fine in basic soils, unlike blueberries. If your hydrangeas flowers are pink, then the soil is too basic for blueberries. The deeper the blue color, the more acidic your soil. Some of the new hybrids are multi colors and tell you little about the PH, but the old fashioned ones are great indicators of soil PH.

This post was edited by Drew51 on Wed, Oct 30, 13 at 12:19


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RE: Do Blueberries Still Need Acidic Soil If Soil Fertile?

Hmm, I'll see if I can find some pine bark. It seems like it's worth creating a test plot.

I'm tempted to believe that my mulching regime is part of the reason that my plants do well. As I mentioned, I currently mulch with leaves (shredded, mostly maple, tulip tree, oak, sycamore and shag bark hickory), and lots of white pine needles. I always figured this is the cheapest way to go and it mimics how nature works in this part of the world.Then again, it could be that plants do well because the soil is just very fertile. Farms in my area produce some of the highest yields in the state for corn, wheat, alfalfa and every other common crop. It actually seems like a huge waste of productive land to see so much suburban sprawl replacing farms around here (in Bucks County, PA).

Drew - yes, my hydrangeas bloom in various shades of pink.

Shazaam, come to think of it, I did notice that the blueberry bushes' roots didn't seem to have any root hairs on them. I didn't think anything of it at the time, but what you said is interesting and it sort of reminded me of something a naturalist told me when I was in the Boy Scouts. He said that a lot of the plants that do well in the PA mountains (where our camp was) would love to live in the more fertile lowlands, but they aren't often found there because other more aggressive plants simply outcompete them. According to him, many plants that thrive in the mountains live there because they can eke out an existence where other plants can't. Maybe blueberries are like that in some respects - they grow where they do because very few other things can handle what they can tolerate.
I really appreciate everyone's input!


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RE: Do Blueberries Still Need Acidic Soil If Soil Fertile?

"Drew - yes, my hydrangeas bloom in various shades of pink. "

Watch them turn blue with the addition of sulfur. No need to test PH, you have these plants! Apply an equal amount of sulfur to them and the blueberries. Once a nice blue, you're good! Really this would be a great indicator where you are. Give 6 months for sulfur to work. Reapply every 6 months as needed by color.

At my cottage we also have very rich soil from an old growth forest. The soil is black as tar. But the moisture, shade from very tall trees and water front conditions (it's an island), make it an extremely hard environment to grow anything. I have been struggling to find plants that work. I have found some. Mostly wild plants, dogwoods, and bamboo.


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RE: Do Blueberries Still Need Acidic Soil If Soil Fertile?

Drew - Blue hydrangeas should be fun to see next year. I had too much pink going on in this part of my garden anyway.

It's handy that I have my hydrangeas, rhododendrons, mountain laurel and azaleas all growing in the same general area of the garden because it was purely an accident I made back in my noob days. The BB bushes are right next to the rhododendron so they should make decent neighbors.

I was wondering though, since non-acid-loving plants border my blueberry patch on one side, how mobile is sulfuric acid in soil?. Is it going to stay put, or is it going to diffuse all over the place? If it's the latter, I should probably shuffle some things around so I have more acid tolerant plants next to the blueberries on that side.


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RE: Do Blueberries Still Need Acidic Soil If Soil Fertile?

Composting is an acidic process (although the outcome is usually fairly neutral) and I believe that as mulch decomposes it creates a very narrow band of acid soil at the surface where adequate iron can become available even if the soil is still close to neutral. This would explain why certain ingredients like pine straw are often incorrectly assumed to acidify soil.

I'm one who's seen thriving mulched blueberries in mid 6 pH soil- several different varieties in such sites. I don't believe any research has been done to confirm or disprove my theory because mulching usually isn't viable for big commercial operations and almost all agricultural research in this country involves large scale commercial production.


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RE: Do Blueberries Still Need Acidic Soil If Soil Fertile?

I think the sulfur will stay put. Just be careful with it. Also keep us updated on how it goes. You seem very observant. I guess I would not change soil, but I would add sulfur, even if they can grow in current soil, it will help them.
Your observations will be valuble info for all of us.
Some blueberries can grow about anywhere, but not all.
Sunshine Blue seems like a super hardy blueberry that can tolerat higher PH's. I don't know of any others? Again though best results no doubt will come with acidic soil. You don't want to just grow them, you want them to thrive. As stated by others in this thread, and my observations too, is when in the right PH, they tend to double in size each season till full grown. Mine went from 2 feet to 4 feet tall this year. Strong thick growth.

This post was edited by Drew51 on Mon, Nov 4, 13 at 0:12


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RE: Do Blueberries Still Need Acidic Soil If Soil Fertile?

I will certainly give a follow up report. For the record, I've probably put enough sulfur and iron sulfate on the soil to lower its pH, eventually, to around 6, give or take depending on what kind of buffer all the leaf litter and organic material in the soil winds up providing.

The particular varieties I have are Bluegold and Elliot. Apparently these bushes grow well in places that get really cold winters. If I hadn't gotten these bushes on a whim to save them from the dumpster, I might have gone with varieties that do well in the South, actually. Unlike most of the rest of Pennsylvania, I'm in zone 7a, and places only 20 miles or so south of me are in zone 7b. The climate here is more like the climate in Virginia or Tennessee - we almost never have a winter month with an average temperature below freezing. If these highbush blueberries need Michigan style cold, they aren't going to get it here. Hopefully this won't be a major complication.


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RE: Do Blueberries Still Need Acidic Soil If Soil Fertile?

My sister grows highbush varieties in coastal CA and several growers south of you have productive stands of highbush varieties that have reported on their efforts here. I'm sure they will do fine.


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RE: Do Blueberries Still Need Acidic Soil If Soil Fertile?

The pH limitation applies to the blueberries. They will struggle to be able to take up those nutrients at a pH of 6.7. I'd do pots or risk losing your plant$. Get that pH below 5.5. Though fruitnut is right, if you can actually grow those acid living flowers successfully then I'd suspect your pH is incorrect and is actually lower than thought. You don't say where you live. Rabbiteyes reportedly will grow in a slightly higher pH than the others.

Here is a link that might be useful: Southern Highbush Blueberry Response to Mulch


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RE: Do Blueberries Still Need Acidic Soil If Soil Fertile?

Once you have your first crop of blueberries, small though it may be, you will be bitten by the blueberry bug that makes you keep planting more and more varieties. So don't worry about what these first two varieties are that much, you'll soon have many more.
Northwoodswis


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