You're going to have a ton (literally). Guessing my 7 trees compared to some other set ups here I figured 40 bushels would be my good year.

With 12 trees you'd better plan on cider making. Hard cider stores and it's supposed to take about 36lbs to make a gallon.
Then there's freezing pie filling and canning sauce. Figure about 3lb per pie and 3lbs per quart.

Many apples store well.
My rootcellaring book says 32 and 85%-95% humidity. 45° halves the storage time. 55° halves that.
So if you're not going for maximum storage you might get away with a pit (but I just noticed your zone and I don't know how cold it gets underground for you).

I think it takes a lot less to make a gallon of hard cider (close to a gallon of sweet cider). My guess is 12-15 lbs.

Following another thread on storing apples, where myk1 also gave advice, I checked craigslist and there was a working fridge for $50. Surely there is a place in your garage (or under a roofed area outdoors, since you are in CA), where you can lay down an old fridge on bricks, and fill it with apples.

Do not forget to get varieties that store well. If you have all summer apples and Golden Delicious, you are not going to store anything.

if you can't get a "gallon" [USg=3.8 liters] of juice out of 12# of apples, you need to get a much better method!! trust me :)

yes, storage life depends hugely on variety, anything ripe before Oct won't keep long, even in a fridge, and the figures of 32°F at very high humidity is right .... also apples breathe, don't keep them in plastic where they have to breathe their own exhaust or they'll get soft fast

Bill

Apple storage is easy! Just buy a freezer chest, for 15 trees you might need a 18 c.u.feet freezer. Then, buy a thermostat at your local brewery store or on the web so that you can run the freezer chest above freezing at 33F. It uses very little power because the freezers are designed to freeze, so when running as a refrigerator, it takes even less power.

The beauty of this setup is that because it's a chest, it keeps the humidity levels high, and the apples retain a very high level of quality. I use this system and it's simply amazing how long apples last, and how great the flavor is, especially when you pick the apples at their prime.

I used to think that cold storage was what was responsible for the loss in flavor in commercial apples, but that's not the problem. Mine taste fantastic even out of cold storage. The problem with commercial apples is that they are picked way too early.

Now 18 cubic feet is a bit small for 15 trees, but that should keep a good supply of apples going for the entire Winter for one family. I also have a chest I operate as a freezer to store cider. I don't want to have to pasteurize, I just freeze the juice.

Of course, there are some varieties like York that can simply be stored outside in the shade, they don't need to be stored at 33F, they'll keep just fine around 40-50F. In the Bay area it stays cool enough from about mid-November to early March to store the better storage varieties like York, Granny Smith, Hauer pippin and pink lady.

Interesting solution. I am growing out of my existing freezer, what with the steer, the chickens, the stock, the beans and the tomatoes, so I may buy a second, larger one, and adopt this solution with the current one.

I am very glad to hear the 36lb/gallon estimate was wrong. I figured it was a little wrong going by their estimates for sauce and pies. 4 gallons per bushel is a much better return.

We've been trying to decrease our power consumption, not increase it. In fact we had an extra fridge we gave away. It was Energy Star rated when new, but would now be about 15 years old. Having put solar panels on the roof to generate power, we're having a little game trying to get a zero yearly electric bill. So far we haven't quite reached it.

Glib, if I add another power appliance such as a freezer or fridge, it would have to be very energy efficient, so alas, probably not used.

Glib and Squeeze, some of my apples were selected for immediate use but most of them are good storage apples. Last spring I planted Newtown Pippin, Winesap, White Pearmain, Kidd's Orange Red, Ashmead's Kernel, and Empire. I will be selecting up to six from the short list of Gravenstein, Hauer Pippin, Mountaineer, Hudson's Golden Gem, William's Pride, Summer Rambo, King David, and possibly one of the Limbertwigs. Not all of them will be stored, as you can see from the varieties. Still, I have some planning to do!

Axel, any clue just how much power we are talking about?

Myk1 is right. We just don't get cold enough here for root cellaring.

I am not axel, but my freezer consumes about $28 (at 6 cents per kWh) per year if used all year in the basement. It is in fact used Sept.-May, skipping the warmest three months, so I am guessing $19-20.

That is to keep the temp inside at 0F. To keep the temp at 32F, assuming a basement constant temp of 59F, will cost a lot less. I am guessing $6/year in power or less. Axel is right that it is very power efficient.

Here are the numbers: to chill a kg of water from 59F to 32F costs you 6kJ thermal (probably 18kJ electrical). To freeze then the same water costs you another 0.3MJ thermal, plus some 4kJ to take the ice down to 0F, which is a lot more. The bulk of the energy goes into turning water into ice. Here the energy needs of a freezer are far superior to those of an apple storage unit.

Once frozen, the appliance spends most of its energy keeping the temperature constant. I am guessing that a freezer has the same insulation as a fridge (this is just a guess), however there are much worse opening losses for a fridge. So we are down to the temperature gap. For the apples it is 27F, for the freezer 59F.

So I come to about $8/year, which goes down to $6 with reduced opening, no freezing, etc. Thermostat power should be close to zero. But unless the insulation of a freezer is much better, a fridge should cost about the same to operate as apple storage unit.

So then the reason to use a chest freezer instead of a fridge is the increased humidity?

R

Not sure. You can always put a bag of moist paper towels at the bottom. I do not see the difference. The freezer may vent the ethylene better, that is all I can think of.

I think the chest is just more efficient at storing one thing at one temperature.
Fridges cool the fridge side by siphoning cold air from the freezer. To keep a whole fridge at 32° will require the freezer to work hard to cool the fridge, with a freezer you have the whole thing working to cool the whole thing.
Chests are also more efficient since you don't have all the cold fall out the instant you open them.

Rosefolly and Friends:

One of the principal differences between a chest freezer (often called a deepfreeze) and a household refrigerator is the provision for automatic defrost. All refrigerators built for the past 40 years or more have an automatic defrost feature that shuts down cooling and briefly heats the cooling coils to remove frost. Water from the melt runs down a tube to the bottom where it is evaporated by warm air circulation. The defrost cycle normally occurs twice in each 24-hour period, so the refrigerator is constantly wringing moisture out of the cabinet and removing it. Keeping a pan of water or moist towels in a refrigerator to raise humidity is futile for this reason.

This is also the principal reason that the freezer section of a household refrigerator is not suitable for long-term storage -- it does not maintain a constant temperature below +10F, which is about the minimum.

Most chest freezers do not have automatic defrost, although I am sure some do, and newer upright freezers often do. This is great for convenience, but not good for long-term freezer storage, which requires constant temperatures below zero. The only downside to a freezer requiring manual defrost is that you have to defrost once every year or 18 months, which usually requires removing the contents for an hour or so. The period between manual defrosts can be longer if your door gasket seals well to keep out ambient humidity and you do not open the door for frequent and prolonged periods. Automatic defrost controls can easily be bypassed, but if you do that with a refrigerator you have to be prepared for frequent manual defrosts, since most refrigerator doors are opened two-dozen times a day or more, which invites humidity into the cabinet.

It is apparently possible to modify an entire chest or upright freezer for warmer storage above 32 degrees, by removing the cold control and installing a different control operating in a higher temperature range. The warmer air in the cabinet will also permit retention of higher humidity, which favors fruit storage. However, changing the control may not be equally easy in all models because of the placement of the control's sensing tube.

For you, Rosefolly, if you are successful with your 12 apple trees, you will soon see the day when you are surrounded by apples. I don't see how you can get by in your relatively warm climate without an extra refrigerator to store the bounty. Cidermaking is certainly one option, and perhaps the best since you can use a lot of apples very quickly. But then you have to store the cider, and that involves a deepfreeze. I have dried a lot of apples, and it is kind of fun and produces a delicious product, but it is very labor intensive. You have to have some time on your hands to make it possible. Children do like dried apples, and they are a very healthy snack. Lots better than "energy bars", composed mostly of chemicals and corn syrup. Then, of course, there is applesauce, and we make more than 2-dozen quarts every season. But again, you need a deepfreeze to store it, or be prepared to put it up in canning jars.

Don Yellman, Great Falls, VA

As stated in all of the posts above, a freezer chest converted to refrigerate is best because:
1) The power consumption is negligible
2) In most units, there is no defrosting going on, thus keeping the humidity levels higher
3) There is no loss of cool air when opening the fridge
4) the humidity levels is higher because it's a chest

The conversion is trivial - the thermostats are plugged into the wall and shuts down the freezer chest at the wall socket, you just hang the thermogauge inside the fridge, that's all. The thermostat costs about $50 and is available at all of the online brewery supply stores. I can post detailed information if necessary.

So far, I have several bushels of apples in there, and the apples keep with an amazing quality and excellent flavor, way better than what I get at the store. Today I had a Hudson's Golden Gem that was picked a few weeks ago, talk about delicious. I also ate a yummy Sierra Beauty apple, talk about tasty. I have Macs, Golden delicious, Waltanas, Catherine, you name it, it's in there, and I should be set, at the rate we're eating, I am thinking they will last until about February before I run out. Hence I may get a second unit going. Granny Smith, pink ladys, fujis and lady williams are not yet ripe, so they will be added later.

I keep the temp in there around 38F, not 32F, for some reason, apples that are slowly maturing at the cooler temperature just have an amazing quality to them.

Check out http://www.homebrewers.com/product/BE875?META=froogle-BE875, our local brewery supply store here had them in stock, so I didn't even have to order online. It works like a charm. Not super precise, so I threw in a thermometer to calibrate, but good enough for apples.

Thanks to everyone for your helpful information. I believe you are correct, that I will need to get a chest freezer and convert it to a fridge. I'm happy to learn that it is actually quite easy, and that the cost to run one is low. I'll wait a couple of years to actually do this, because my trees are not yet producing.

The members of this forum really provide a wealth of information. How very fortunate it is that I wandered over here from the Antique Roses forum a year or two ago, one day when I was in an exploring mood.

Surely Axel is correct on all counts. I have to go get some clarifying stuff at my local store, so I will check the thermostats monday. The only minus is the initial cost of a freezer. On the other hand, we are all serious apple eaters. A fridge might be a bit small to contain apples for a season. I alone eat about 8 bushels a year. These days, with all the specialization in medicine you have to keep ten doctors away.