All I know is the redder the color the more cardboard the apple in my experience with RD- but there must be 100 strains of RD and I've only sampled probably 10 because I don't seek it out. Even the best RD is only a fair apple in my region by my tastes.

If you want a hard RD type, but much better flavor, I recommend Cameo if Fuji doesn't fill the bill for you. Fuji is the ultimate hard, extremely sweet late apple in my book and you can eat it out of cool storage all winter. Cameo has a little more acid balance and has good storage life, like most modern varieties. Both of these do tend to biennial bearing though- at least in my cooler climate. A longer growing season helps.

I'm looking for the older varieties of RD that you used to find in the grocery stores back in the 60's that tasted like a REAL apple. I know that all of the newer versions have ruined what was once a great apple. I've talked with Nick Botner and he has Double Red, Old Red and a version called Bipps spur RD that is advertised by Bay Laurel and others as "perhaps the best RD." I guess I'm trying to turn back the clock and find the apple that I loved, when I was a kid.
I have Fuji, but it's very slow ripening for me, and I'm planning on trying a faster ripening version called Fuji Beni Shogun. Any body know anything about it. I've eaten Cameo from the grocery store and it's an OK apple. After I've eaten a few bites, I don't want any more.

Cameo off the tree is probably different. Never met anyone who didn't consider it a real good apple when eating one from my tree.

Does Botner consider Double Red superior to Hawkeye?

RD grown in WA was already crap by the '60's by my memory. Back then my favorite sweet was Newtown, but they came from Santa Cruz and not WA.

September Fuji is the early I grow and it is much like the later version as advertised.

When I started my business here in the late '80's I asked a grower why he hadn't planted any Fuji's in his orchard. The crusty old guy said "why bother, to me it just tastes like Red Delicious used to". Of course, commercial growers are not necessarily connoisseurs.

I tasted Cameo from the farmers market about three weeks ago. I liked it and the taste reminded me of Honeycrisp but of course not as good or crisp as home grown Honeycrisp. Cameo is described by Tom Vorbeck from Applesource as the best Red Delicious type. The farmer had a huge Cameo apple on display that must have been the largest apple I've seen. I wonder if anybody can comment on how productive the tree is? The huge size of some of the fruit that farmer had makes may think that it may not be productive. BTW, I tasted Pink Lady from the store a couple of years ago and never bought it again after that. I tried a sample from a farmer lately and the taste was completely the opposite of what I had from the store.

Hman,

I guess I'm trying to find the red delicous that the crusty old guy told you why bother planting Fuji's in place of. Doesn't anybody here grow RD anymore?

Over 250 variants of RD. And they still can't find a good one;- But they sure do ship purdy.

Over 250 variants of RD. And they still can't find a good one;- But they sure do ship purdy.

So true. They didn't just ship "Purdy" though...the fact is RD really IS pretty. Don't get me wrong I despise the apple, and to me, at least, it remains iconic of everything that went wrong in fruit production during that era. It is still a constant reminder of the vanity of consumers.

Having said all that however, I will admit that when I was a little kid the local Catholic school nuns would have candied apples as "prizes" for their Halloween events. Designed of course to draw children away from the pagan holiday and into salvation I guess. If you successfully bobbed for apples and got one you received a candied apple. That apple was of course RD and when candied, it was beyond fantastic as I remember it. I suspect that the tough skin and qualities that made it a "good shipper" made it prime for being candied as well. I've never made candied apples, but I guess you dip the apple into a hot bath of flavored and colored syrup. RD stands up to that...many others likely would not.
My point in all this blather? There may yet remain a place for RD.
Also...every Halloween I still think of those wonderful apples the Nuns gave out. Most of those Nuns (from what I'm told) were strict disciplinarians and were meaner than rattlesnakes.

I've tasted some pretty good RD's some years here on very old trees when the summers have been dry and warm. I also seem to remember when the Washington version was less red and had a thinner skin. Sweet, crisp and juicy without a hint of aroma. I just don't think the northeast is a reliable place to get this variety at its "best".

But I'm in the hot and dry southeast, and I want to give it the old college try. But I want to be very selective in what I graft. Since I'm one of those old farts, I don't have years to waste in testing possibilities. Hman, what varieties are the very old trees that sometimes work for you.

I've no idea what the strain is, but I can probably send you some wood if you send me a stamped addressed envelope. I don't think you have anything I need and I don't have time to send out wood to all who ask for it if I have to do packaging. Gets crazy here in late winter.

I doubt it is better than Hawkeye if it isn't actually that. I've never heard of anyone claiming any new strains having better flavor than the original- but there's lots I haven't heard. No cardboard thick skin, at least. Might be Hawkeye- trees were planted around 70 years ago, I think.

I appreciate the offer. Email me your address and I'll send in January.

I recall sampling quite a few different RD variants when I was at PennState's orchards.

Hawkeye was the best one...which isn't saying much.