I don't grow any old apple varieties, but I like reading anything Scott posts (I will hopefully be able to try my own Sweet Sixteen and Goldrush in a couple years once they make an apple)

But yes, in addition to a boatload of knowledge, Hman always provides high comedy to the point of me often laughing out loud at how he words things, and even reading a line or two to my wife.

Thanks for the nice report. You mentioned for several varieties that rot was a limiting factor, e.g. Egremont Russet, which I've found to be an excellent apple in appearance, flavor and consistency. As I recall, you grow your apples with close spacing between the trees - is this causing congestion, and if so do you think this may be a contributor to your rot problem? Also, are you using any synthetic fungicides in your regimen to address the rot problems?

My prized apples so far this year have been Pixie Crunch, Ashmead's Kernel and Goldrush. I like Sweet 16, but I'm one to add anise to many a recipe, called for or not.

Sweet Sixteen has more than anise "overtones"- its taste is written in the key of anise.

Creek, some of the apples are in better spots than others. Egremont Russet is not in the greatest spot, but on the other hand none of the apples around it rotted so relatively speaking it has rot problems.

My feeling is backyard growers should not need to be doing a lot of spraying and there are many great apple varieties out there so there is no reason to grow any variety that is prone to rot or other bad things for your average busy home grower. I do about six sprays per year and only one is not organic, thats my post bloom spray for CAR.

Scott

Scott, you are talking only about your apple spray program, right? Thought you also started using MFF for brown rot.

Right.

Well, looking at my logs I did an experimental MFF on some apples this year due to all the rots. It didn't seem to help much though. It also could be the wrong spray for apple rot.

Scott

Such valuable information you give us scottsmith
I've been waiting for this report & its stellar!
Wonder if you might list your top 5?
This time considering those grown with the least trials & tribulations as well as outstanding taste.

Good question, I almost did that when writing the above as thats what really matters. Here is a crack at it. Note I am sticking to varieties I know well, it will probably change a lot over the years. With the one exception of irrational exuberance on Hooples .. the apples were just too good this year :-) There is more than five because there is not a lot of difference between 5-9 in my head.

Scott

1. Gold Rush
2. Hooples Antique Gold
3. Pomme Gris
4. Rubinette
5. Reine des Reinettes
6. Kidds Orange Red
7. Freyburg
8. Newtown Pippin
9. Jefferis (for an early ripening apple, you should have one of those if you have several apple trees)

Super helpful info, thanks!

I held my breath & here it is!
Very nice indeed as I'm growing 1-5 & 8 as well.
Gold Rush & Pomme Gris are my healthiest thriving young trees
(my Liberty & Pristine too of course)
Hooples, Rubinette & Reine are slow but steady
Newton is a pain & as I live just under 2000 ft
never should have tried to grow it
I was about to order a Freyberg but will wait for my Hooples, Thanks!

Scott,
How early is the Jefferis apple?

Does anyone know a commercial source for the Jefferis and the Hooples Antique Gold?

Greetings scottsmith do you grow Va Beauty or Grimes Golden?
I thought you did but wonder now
since they are not on your above list.
Perhaps thay are too difficult in our hot sticky climate?

How does Jefferis compare to Zestar? Hard to imagine a better early apple than it.

I was disappointed today to see birds had pecked through most of my Pink Ladies. They are as good as any apple I can imagine this year off the tree and with such a unique texture. I wonder how you'd rate it, Scott, if it was an obscure French heirloom. Probably the most beautiful apple as it hangs on the tree that I've ever seen.

The birds barely touched the Goldrush apples right next to it. The only ones they went after were those most highly blushed.

Not a single common variety seems to tickle your palate while I like growing many of the newer types that can be purchased in a store. When you eat only apples you grow, it seems unimportant which ones are also available to the public.

Eboone: Century Farm Orchards carries Hooples but I think they are sold out for the season, may want to call David to confirm. I have been very happy with their trees. Maple Valley website says they sells Hooples scion, I might be going that route myself. Chris.

Eboone, Jefferis is on the early side of the early ones - the list above is in ripening order more or less and it was as early as any other (it was about with Williams Pride).

Hman, I haven't tried Zestar. I thought Jefferis tasted better than the other early apples I listed above.

Green Orchard Mom, I look forward to hearing how these varieties do for you. I have Virginia Beauty but its a new graft I made last year. Grimes I have had for a long time but through various circumstances it never fruited until this year but it then proved to be the wrong variety - ouch. Both should be good varieties for us, I have run into Grimes locally several times and it has always been very good.

Scott

I grow Grimes Golden and it's one of the best apples I have. Extremely prolific, disease free and a GREAT tasting apple.

Oh yeah ray rose, how long & any fireblight?

I've had my tree for 8 years, and as I said it's been disease free, and I don't spray. It was so loaded with fruit this year, I had to brace the whole tree, and that was after thinnning. The apples are big, hard, crunchy, with a good balance between zest and sweetness. I like it much better than Goldrush, which I also grow.

Rayrose, I don't understand your magic kingdom where you get fruit without spray. I thought you'd have to live in the middle of a city to have this in the east.

thought you'd have to live in the middle of a city to have this in the east.

You know something to that. One reason I decided against apples was that every apple tree I ever saw was infested with every insect imaginable. One tree I did see with hardly any bugs, but that's it.
Yeah here is suburbia I have had one bird take some fruit. A robin, and only one, he disappeared about mid-summer and the other robins don't touch anything. it is very strange, but no complaints!

Hman,

I do live in the city, but in the suburbs. The only disease I've ever had was fireblight in some of my apples two years ago. I kept it under control with aggressive pruning and two sprays of agrimycin. The culprit was a Gala tree that I disposed of, and this year not a sign of fb. As Scott experienced, I had a lot of brown rot this year, which I never get, but it was only on some apples.
I dormant spray, once in january, all of my apples, peaches and plums for scale. I also spray my peaches and plums 1-2 times, after shuck split for pc, and my peaches once in august for borers. I never spray my pears, figs or watermelons.That's my entire spray program. I intentionally stay away from disease prone varieties, and I believe that is the key. I don't understand why so many people insist on planting disease prone varieties, when there are so many other alternatives. Why invite problems into your garden/orchard? I have enough work to do as it is.
The biggest problem that I have is with birds and varmints. I have to net all of my figs and some apples to keep the birds from eating them. I also have a netted hoop house for my blueberries or they would eat them too. I keep five baited traps for squirrels, raccoons, and possums, and in January I'll post my annual varmint report.

Ray, what I don't understand is how you are avoiding curculio and moths. Disease resistant apples have no bug resistance. My guess is nobody nearby has any fruit trees. I have also seen some clean older trees, one is not even that far from my house.

Scott

Scott, as I said, I spray 1-2 times for pc and I presume that must also zap OFM, but I don't spray my apples I do have neighbors that grow pears & figs, but I don't believe any apples. One theory might be, since the stone fruit flowers and sets fruit before the apples. The spray for them kills the pc & ofm, thereby protecting the apples.
I also practice a good orchard hygiene program; by keeping the grass cut and not letting any fruit lay on the ground. An ounce of prevention is worth many sprays.
Hope you got the email I sent you.

Hi Ray, what apples do you grow? I'm going to plant some of the hard types like King David hoping for better bug resistance

Well I often get a wide range of varieties to bear sound fruit with two sprays. I'm surprised that one could reliably protect you from PC, especially in the south where blooming time between varieties is extended. I'm also surprised that down there you haven't had a problem with oriental fruit moth as Scott and other growers have a lot of trouble with it and it requires much later sprays than PC.

I can imagine controlling PC with one spray if you were carefully monitoring and only got one generation.

As far as selecting for disease resistance, up here that makes very little difference in terms of the number of sprays- you just throw some myclobutanil in the mix you are spraying PC with and you are generally good to go with most apple varieties.

How long have you been growing fruit there? One thing I've learned is that pests have a habit of finding orchards over time.

Great thread Scott,..most I've never heard of, some of the hardier ones I might be interested to try,...looks like you're the apple king!

>>How long have you been growing fruit there? One thing I've learned is that pests have a habit of finding orchards over time. Yes, they found me, apple maggot has started about 4 years ago, but in the city they been around about 8 years longer.

I'm in my 8th year growing fruit. Before that I grew exhibition roses for 12 and still have about 80 bushes.
The apples that I grow are Grimes Golden, Fuji, Summer Banana, Golden Delicous, Cauley, Goldrush, Dixie Red Delight, Kidd's Orange Red, Bevan's Favorite, Redfree,
Red Devil. I did grow Gala, but had to get rid of it because it was a fb magnet.
I've never had a problem with OFM, only PC on my plums, but I only get one generation because of the hygiene program. I've never had insect damage on my peaches either, but I did lose a peach and a nectarine tree to borers. That taught me a big lesson. The only disease I've ever had was the Gala FB, and I've never had Fb on my pears. I did lose a Fuji to crown gall, but I believe it was shipped from the nursery with it.

Ray, its surprising that the sprays on your stone fruits will clear up the apples but it sounds like thats whats happening.

I didn't get your email. Don't use the Gardenweb form, use the email listed on my page.

Scott

You shouldn't infer from what is happening that it is all about your decisions and methods- Many of us have tried your approach.

PC can't be controlled just by hygiene, they fly for miles in a single day, but perhaps your location does make local hygiene more important because there aren't many other fruiting plants around to draw them from far away.

Here I have natives in the woods that harbor PC and stinkbugs as well as many diseases and almost all the sites I manage have these things right at the border of the property if its not part of the property itself. I started off planting only "disease resistant" varieties and found them to be as much work for inferior fruit.

If fruit growing is so uncomplicated there I'm surprised your neighbors aren't taking it up in droves, growing their own organic fruit. Where I first started growing fruit in CA the conditions were like yours and people grow a lot more fruit in their yards there than in the east.

Still, eight years is a short time, a lot of my pests didn't show up in my orchard for twelve or more, including pear scab, stinkbugs, pear psyla, and significant coddling moth. However, I always needed to control pests with at least two sprays to get decent crops of any common tree fruit I grow besides maybe pears. Now pears are harder than anything.

I forgot to mention that I also grow Hawkeye Red Delicous. To answer some of the responses, I live in a residential neighborhood, where almost everyone grows ornamental plants and trees. I'm the weird person in the neighborhood whose yard is full of fruit trees and roses, and I share the harvest.
We have lots of walkers/joggers and I'm always giving impromptu garden tours.
My regimen works for me because 1) I don't have unkept woods nearby 2) I only have one generation of PC/OFM because I attack them by disrupting the breeding cycle of these pests. My orchard hygiene program robs them of their breeding ground. The fruit that lays on the ground usually contains the larva/eggs which will be the second generation. By removing and disposing the fallen fruit, there is no second, third, or fourth generation. Hence there is no reason to spray, because there are no bugs. The same thing goes for keeping the grass/weeds cut. It eliminates the breeding ground for these pests. Heck, I don't even own a lawn mower. I have a guy that cuts, weed eats, edges, trims and blows my entire yard every two weeks.
Like most people here, I'm a back yard grower, not a professsional orchardist. What I do might be too labor intensive for some of you guys, because it requires being on sight every day and putting out sparks, before they even become brush fires. But for me, it isn't very hard to do. I'm retired and gardening is one of my avocations.
Each morning I get a bucket and pruners and I inspect every tree and bush. If it shouldn't be there, it's picked up or pruned out. It's like getting your kids ready to go to school every morning.
If you don't enjoy tending your garden/orchard, you need to find some other hobby/avocation. But on the other hand, you have to garden smart or it can overwhelm you. That's why I try to keep my work to a minimum. I enjoy my afternoon naps, while you guys are spraying.

I am happy that you are able to do what your are doing so effectively and at such a high level of enjoyment.

The only reason I do a lot of spraying is because I manage about 100 orchards, some that are multi-acre, but I am well compensated so don't feel too bad for me.

There are many neglected apple trees all over the region I work as well as the mentioned forest trees.

Hello Bhawkins,
Hadn't posted in a long time but I saw your post about apples and know you grow trees in the Dallas area like me. Just wanted to say I fruited two varieties for the first time this year.......Pristine and Goldrush. Both I think are on G16 rootstock. I'll have to look that up. Both trees bore a good crop on small trees. No bug troubles at all. I managed to eat a few Pristines before the squirells ate the rest. Ripen super early and were pretty good. They got all of the Goldrush waaaay befroe they could ripen. Just didnt have time to deal with the critters. I would love to hear how your trees are doing sometime.

Scape

Scott,

I tried that email but for some reason it's not working.
Email me Rgabdalla@netzero.net.

Rayrose,

I am mindful that this is an apple thread. Thank you very much, Scott for posting.

I think, Ray, you are very fortunate that your good orchard hygiene practice has been working very well for you.

I have a small orchard in a densely populated suburb. I only a few peach trees and one plum tree that have fruited. I 've practiced the same clean up you do. It's easy to do since it's a small orchard. However, while the practice is a good thing to do, it does not work for me.

PC and esp. OFM found my peach trees the first year the trees bore fruit and have attacked the fruit every year since.

I've to spray pesticide about 4-5 times at least. This year alone, I still see OFM shoot tip damages until Sept.

I do only two sprays for apples and then bag them with a great result..

Scaper, good to hear from you! I'd wondered where you were. I've got 9-10 apple trees that have started bearing last year and this year. Mostly m1111, a few m7. Goldrush, pixie crunch, pristine, enterprise, golden delicious are all good. Williams Pride is pretty and tasty but developed bitter pit both years. Honecrisp has done nothing in 4 years.

Trees at my house were sprayed twice with an insecticide, trees at the office weren't sprayed at all, no bug problems yet--unlike my peaches where the bugs win every year. At the house some trees are eaten up by CAR-guess I should spray for it-but no problems at the office where no cedars are in sight. Car seems to love my goldrush, pixie crunch, mutsu, and fuji. Biggest problem for the apples has been the squirrels.

You must be growing pears, right?

Mamuang

It could be the chemicals that you're using and or the timing of your spraying. For some reason Sevin, which is recommended by Clemson here, never worked for me. The bugs just laughed it off. I've found that Ortho Fruit Flower Garden Insect Killer does the trick, and Triazicide for borers. Timing is also very important, especially the first spray of the season. There's a fine balance between zapping pc/ofm and allowing the pollinators time to do their job.
I used to bag apples, but as I added more and more trees, it just became too big of a job, and the results just weren't worth it to me.

Hman,
I fully understand your spray regimen. You have to please your customers, and they probably don't pay you enough, no matter how much you charge.

Ray, thats interesting about your Williams Pride. Mine had watercore. Its not looking like the greatest apple for our climates is it?

Scott
PS I found your email and just replied.

Scott,
If you're addressing me, i don't grow Wiliams Pride.

I've heard similar things about Williams Pride from a local apple grower. He recommended Pristine over WP for hot summer areas.

Oops I misread .. the Williams Pride comment was for bhawkins.

Andrew, thanks for that extra bit. It looks like we now have a total of three dings against WP in hot areas. For me it ripened almost identically with Jefferis and I found the latter a better apple. Ginger Gold was also a similar time but not very exciting (certainly nice, just not exciting). In its favor Ginger Gold had no problems with the heat at all.

Scott

Thanks for the annual report!

Rayrose, what do you think about Cauley? I live in Virginia now but am originally from Mississippi so I like the story behind Cauley. Have too many varieties as it is but would try Cauley depending on you opinion.

Yes please do tell
What about Cauley?
Summer Banana & especially Dixie Red Delight!
I almost grew a Dixie but being a child of Yellow Transparent FB concerns kept me from ordering it.

The FB that I had 2 years ago effected all three of these varieties and I had to do some severe pruining on all 3, but no fb this year. I also moved DRD, so it spent this year acclimating itself to it's new location. I expect the first fruit from it next year. This year was the first year that Cauley and Summer Banana produced fruit. I'm a firm believer that you can't tell a whole lot from the first years' fruit. I don't let my apples carry fruit, until they are at least 5 years old. I learned that from David Vernon, who sold me the trees.
All of that aside, both varieties produced a fair amount of fruit. Cauley is very hard, which I like, has a slightly yellow meat and a pleasant spritely taste, which I think will get better over time. It's prococious and I had to support many of the branches. I understand that it can produce fruit that can weigh up to a pound.
Summer Banana is a totally diferent apple. It's mainly a tip bearer. The skin is yellow with white flesh that is somewhat bland to my taste. I didn't smell or taste any hint of banana, so i think the name is somewhat deceiving. I wonder, if Winter banana is the same. As I said before, I don't place a whole of value on first year fruits. I chose this tree because of the name and the fact it came from Marion County, here is SC, plus both of these apples have a historical significance. it's interesting to know what people ate here 200+ years ago.
If you'll allow me to reminisce, I bought Bevan's Favorite because my grandfather used to have this tree in his backyard. I can remember climbing the tree, when I was a little boy, fighting my cousin for the apples. THEY SURE WERE GOOD.

Hi Scott, yes Williams Pride seems iffy in our climates; not impossible, as Kuffel Creek really likes it, but maybe conditions have to be just right.

If I google "Purdue Williams Pride", the following is from a PRI press release; I'll just copy the "cons" not the "pros". Guess I shouldn't have used M111

"Problems: Severe watercore may be a significant problem in some seasons. Slight bitter pit observed in a few seasons. Severe bitter pit was observed on young trees with their first crop on MM-111 rootstock, on very sandy soil, under heavy nitrogen and irrigation. Fruit borne in clusters on short spurs, may tend to be pushed off as they swell, giving some loss to dropped fruit. Slightly coarse flesh texture. Uneven ripening will require two or more pickings.

General Recommendation: Suggested for advanced commercial testing on soils where nutrient deficiencies do not predispose trees to bitter-pit, as well as small scale and home grower plantings. Produced large, high quality fruit, ripening with the earliest red apple cultivars and relatively long storage-life for early entry and extended use in the summer apple market. Not recommended on MM-111 rootstock, on bitter-pit prone soils, or under high nitrogen fertilization."

Good info, bhawkins. I'll give my graft a few more years to see if watercore is every year or not. They still tasted good with the watercore.

BTW I noticed I left White Winter Pearmain off my list above. I lost most of them to deer this year but am cellaring some. One had half rot and the rest was ripening sooner; it tasted very good, something like Mutsu. Its very much a cellaring apple so the real verdict will be in a few months. I am also cellaring half of my GoldRush, I just picked them last night since we are forecast for 20F tonight.

I recently had some Ashmeads Kernel from a local orchard; it reminded me of what an excellent apple it is. The flesh is dry and hard but the taste is excellent, sweet and nutty. My ranking of it above has been lowering since I haven't tasted it in some time. I should finally get my own apples soon as the tree is in the deer pathway but finally outgrew them this year.

Abbondanza I should lower more in the ranking, its not been consistently sweet. I am trying cellaring some of them to see if they improve, as well as a few other varieties that may benefit from cold storage.

Scott

Scott, are you sure that Jefferis is the correct variety? Everywhere I look online, including ARS-GRIN, calls it a mid-season apple, not an early season like William's Pride.

I haven't seen any biter pit on William's Pride, though my tree is on a dwarfing rootstock (G11), rather than MM111. I mostly get bitter pit on Ashmead's Kernel. I think I've seen it on Egremont Russet as well, though I may be confusing it with the other rots ER gets.

Bob, my Jefferis looks like the ARS picture. I don't think its considered a midseason apple but its usually put a couple weeks after Williams Pride. It ripens over a long period and it kept producing apples after WP was all gone. This is the first year both fruited so it could also have been related to the weather, or it could just be relatively earlier in my climate.

Scott

BHawkins,
Thanks for posting info about you trees! Still growing pears still watching them get eaten by squirrels. Haven't done a good job of caring for my trees the last few years but this year I plan on getting back into caring for them and battling the critters again. I'll post more often on my results. As you know there is in my opinion a huge void of information for Lone Star State fruit growers and I think its huge for us brave enough to try it to keep posting our highs and lows. It was really cool getting to share apples with my sons if only a few.

scape

As a FYI to those out there looking for scion wood, spoke to Tony today of Maple Valley Orchard. He has Hooples Antique Gold that Scott is so exuberant about and other varieties of scion available for sale that are not shown on his 2015 applewood scion availability list.

Here is a link that might be useful: Maple Valley Orchards