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meister_z8b

Carmine Jewel & Crimson Passion dwarf bush cherries in Texas

Meister_Z8b
9 years ago

Hi, this is my first post. I recently purchased CJ & CP dwarf cherries from Honeyberry USA nursery (see pics for what I received). I planted them under a highly trimmed Water Oak so they will get some relief from the Noonday sun.

I was looking for a cherry to grow down here in Texas (Z8b), and I haven't really heard many good stories about the famous Minnie Royal and Royal Lee trees out of Dave Wilson. Especially where I live, we get late (mid-March) Spring frosts, these cherries apparently almost always bloom too early. I am aware of Nanking cherries and do plan to plant some, but I chose the CJ & CP because they seemed closer to a traditional cherry.

These University of Saskatchewan cherries were bred for very cold Winters, but I've read some anecdotal reviews on the Gurney's website about people having success with these cherries in the South. One review was in Wilson, OK and the other review was from Morgan City, LA.

Does anyone have any experience with these cherries in Texas or a similar climate to Zone 8b with late Spring frosts? I'd love to hear some first-hand Southern experience on these.

The two Carmine Jewel cherries:

This post was edited by Meister_Z8b on Fri, Nov 7, 14 at 13:58

Comments (31)

  • Meister_Z8b
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    ...and the two Crimson Passion cherries:

  • don555
    9 years ago

    Can't really help you because I'm in zone 3, but I think the evidence is just not in yet as to how warm a zone these trees can be grown in. They were really designed to increase fruit production on the Canadian prairies so testing them in warmer zones wasn't done as I understand it. You are now part of that testing!

    I grow 4 varieties of the U of Sask. cherries and have grown Nanking in the past. The fruit quality of the U of Sask. cherries is much better than Nanking (firmer fruit, higher brix, better taste) so if you can grow the U of Sask. cherries I think you will be happier with them than Nanking. Carmine Jewel has the smallest fruit of the U of Sask. cherries, about similar to Nanking. The variety Cupid (not on your list) has fruit as big as traditional cherries.

  • zendog
    9 years ago

    Hi,

    Nice looking plants. I think mine will arrive tomorrow.

    I'm in 7A and am planting them in full sun, which hopefully won't be too hot for them. I have read about several people in my zone and somewhat warmer growing them successfully as well. Not as far south as you, but looking at the zones for the Gurney's reviews I see a few as far south as 9A so I think yu have reason to be optimistic. But they were certainly developed with the colder areas in mind so as Don says we warmer zones need to realize we are testing the bounds their range. The one thing I wonder about is whether you'll get enough chill hours for it to set good fruit...

    Keep us updated how on how they do for you. By the way, what size did you order for the Carmine Jewels? I think I ordered the middle size.

    This post was edited by zendog on Sun, Nov 9, 14 at 21:19

  • meredith_e Z7b, Piedmont of NC, 1000' elevation
    9 years ago

    No idea about flowers and fruit yet on my little Carmine Jewel. I'm testing mine here, too, and we have a problem with warms spells and then frost ourselves.

    Mine is growing great, so I'm happy to see that. We're hot, but I can't grow lavender well here because of the humidity, if that helps explain my climate. CJ seems to like a fair bit of sun, imho. I have mine in lots of morning sun, and afternoon shade by late day. Good luck and let us know how yours do :)

  • Meister_Z8b
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    Thanks for the responses so far. I'll keep this post updated when I get new data.

    Don: Thanks for the tip on Nanking -- I might wait to see how these cherries do before buying some Nanking bushes. Do you grow the Crimson Passion? If so, are they sweet enough to eat fresh out of hand? I've read that you can't really do that with CJ, but the CP seems to have a very high brix that I thought it might be like eating a sweet cherry.

    Zen: I ordered (1) 12-24" and (1) 36-48" of the CJ's, and Honeyberry only had the one size of CP which was 12-20" tall. I splurged for the one large size CJ just to see if it would make a difference with time to fruit and surviving the elements compared to the smaller one.

    Meredith: How long ago did you plant your CJ?

  • don555
    9 years ago

    Meister: I don't grow Crimson Passion... I have Carmine Jewel, Cupid, Juliet and Romeo. The U of Sask. cherries do have high brix but they also have quite a bit of acidity, thus the sourness. So it's kind of a sour-sweet taste. Some have less sour than others and you can eat a bunch before the sourness gets too much. If you leave them on the bush they eventually lose some of the tartness. For me, they ripened in early August and I picked most of them then but left some on to see if they would become less tart. It was not until early September that I could really notice a difference, and they became noticeably less tart, though still tart. Not sure if I'd leave the bulk of the cherries on the bush that long, since they would be exposed to a month's risk of hail, wind, birds, insects, etc. But they do hold on the bush well (only a few dropped) if you want to go that route. If you use them for pies and preserves, the added sugar and cooking will get rid of most of the tartness.

    I started a thread on my cherries on this site back in August, with some photos and tasting comments. Here's the link in case you missed it:

    http://forums2.gardenweb.com/forums/load/fruit/msg0802251010794.html

  • zendog
    9 years ago

    My plants came on Monday and went in yesterday (next day). I have mostly clay soil and I was a bit worried about them staying too wet so I built up the planting area so that they're now about 8-10 inches above the adjacent lawn and driveway areas. The 2 closest plants are Crimson Passion and the other 3 are Carmine Jewel. I have another CJ that I placed in a pot temporarily since it is headed to my sister in Connecticut. It will be interesting to see the differences in how my plants and her plant grow, fruit, etc.

    My biggest concern right now is that I believe my soil is probably a bit too acidic for these cherries. I didn't test it, but generally the soil in this area is pretty acidic and in fact a blueberry I planted without knowing it needed acidic soil has survived and produced berries so I know the soil certainly isn't basic. I dug in a little lime while turning the soil, but I'm going to get the soil tested and will probably top dress some more lime if it comes back acidic.

    Since I planted them closer together than most people recommend I expect I may have to move a few in the future or else just let them develop into a delicious hedge.

    Don that thread of yours was one of the things that convinced me to give these a try... that and the picture and description of the CJ cherry pie posted by iowajer.

  • meredith_e Z7b, Piedmont of NC, 1000' elevation
    9 years ago

    I planted mine the summer before last from a tiny, clearance pot :) She's still not very big, but she's much bigger than when I got her!

    Mine grows a lot in spring and less with the really hot weather here. But the overall yearly growth is very good, and CJ is awesome about not getting any disease here.

  • northwoodswis4
    9 years ago

    Has anyone heard anything more on when the rest of the series will be released for sale in the U.S.? I thought they would be out by now. I'm still waiting for my first fruit from Carmine Jewels planted in fall of 2008. I actually have about a dozen of them in all now, after buying more on clearance when I see sales too good to pass up! According to the nursery catalog hype, I should have bushels of cherries by now, but I've yet to taste one.
    Maybe 2015 will be the magic year! Northwoodswis

  • ztom
    9 years ago

    Gurneys has Romeo now, but it is very pricey.

  • northwoodswis4
    9 years ago

    Forty bucks for a Romeo! Yipes! I wonder why they list it under cherry trees, not bush cherries? Guess I will wait a couple years and see if the price comes down (a lot), especially when I am still waiting to even taste my Carmine Jewels after six years. Thanks for letting me know, though. Northwoodswis

  • drew51 SE MI Z5b/6a
    9 years ago

    I put a Carmine Jewell, Crimson Passion, Romeo, and Cupid at my cottage. But conditions are harsh. I had 2 Carmine Jewel's. All died except the Carmine Jewel's. So it is the hardiest of them. I pulled them out and brought them home where conditions are much better. But I have no more room here, so left them in pots. This year they doubled in size growing like crazy! Bummed I killed so many trees though. I traded with one of our Canadian members for the Cupid, and Romeo. Kicking myself for even trying to grow them at my cottage. When I think about it, how many tart cherries do I need? So I have no plan to add more now. I have the hardiest cultivar, sticking with CJ for now. Plus I just do not have room. I'm moving in three years, and may add more at that time as I will have room. Moving to a more rural setting eventually when I can retire.
    The only trees doing well at my cottage is Cornus Mas the Cornelian cherry. I have a hedge of 14 trees. 3rd leaf this year. They were seedlings, so still small. Expect fruit the 6th leaf.
    Northwoodswis why are your trees taking so long to fruit? They should be fairly large by now? If mine grows like it did this year I would expect fruit in 2016. I wasted a year at my cottage where it didn't grow at all, just survived.

  • Meister_Z8b
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    Zen: looks like you received some large specimens from Honeyberry...did you get the 24-36"? I've never heard of acidic clay soil, but if you see clay and a blueberry thrives then it must be true. I have some clay down here as well so I had 6-7 tons of compost trucked to my house to augment my beds. Hopefully over time it will transition to a more balance soil. FYI, I planted my twigs 3-4' apart since I plan to trim them to a slender columnar shape for an edible hedge. Please keep me posted with how they do.

    Meredith: thanks for the update. Even from a tiny twig, I've read that you can get flowers and perhaps a handful of fruit by the 3rd year. So your CJ flowered at all? Can you upload a pic of it? How tall and bushy is it now?

    Northwoodsis: Can you also post a pic of your CJ? Six years sounds like you should have buckets of fruit by now. What kind of conditions do you grow it in? Do you mulch or compost it at all? Has it flowered at least?

  • northwoodswis4
    9 years ago

    My Carmine Jewels are on a dry, sandy ridge, probably formed by a railroad cut, although I do water them from time to time. I have chicken wire around them over winter. They have been mulched with about two inches of wood chips for the last two years. Before that it was just light leaf mulch or nothing. I do not know if they have bloomed in the spring, as I was away from home the past few springs caring for my late father. There wasn't evidence they had bloomed when I returned around the beginning of June each year. They are about waist high. Were only tiny when I got them. Seem to be very tough plants. I threw some horse manure around them this fall. Maybe next spring I can take some photos. Too hard to get up to the garden when there is snow on the steps.
    I see Gurney's has their deal where you can essentially get things for half price if you spend $50 or more until November 30th, so that makes the Romeo's about $20 each. I quickly ordered two for next spring, along with a couple other items. I plan to plant them out on some land I bought a couple years ago and where I planted five clearance Carmine Jewels in late summer, so hopefully they will thrive there. Thanks for your response. Northwoodswis

  • don555
    9 years ago

    In my experience (zone 3a), they are quick to grow and slow to fruit. My Carmine Jewel has had at least some flowers every year since I planted it in May 2011, but this year is the first year it flowered well and bore any fruit. Here's some photos taken each year around bloom time.

    May 21, 2011: (about 2 weeks after planting):
    {{gwi:102765}}

    May 27, 2012:
    {{gwi:125741}}

    May 22, 2013:
    {{gwi:125742}}

    May 30, 2014. Bloom was late this year and bush wasn't yet in full bloom when this photo was taken.
    {{gwi:125743}}

    Aug 21, 2014: Overall view of Carmine Jewel bush just before picking fruit:
    {{gwi:122141}}

    Aug 21, 2014, spread open the branches:
    {{gwi:122142}}

    Aug 21, 2014, Pitting the harvest:
    {{gwi:122144}}

  • drew51 SE MI Z5b/6a
    9 years ago

    Awesome, I never get tired of those photos! One day I'll be doing the same. Now i want Romeo too, I have to stay away from these forums!

  • northwoodswis4
    9 years ago

    "I have to stay away from these forums!"

    At this late stage of the addiction, probably not possible, Drew!

    Northwoodswis

  • drew51 SE MI Z5b/6a
    9 years ago

    Yeah, I guess I just have to go with it. i added 2 blackberry cultivars, and 1 black raspberry cultivar this fall, I currently have 4 cherry trees. 2 tart and 2 sweet. I will add more after I move, like 50 more yes!! Yes!!

  • drew51 SE MI Z5b/6a
    9 years ago

    Henry Fields has Romeo for $24.99

  • meredith_e Z7b, Piedmont of NC, 1000' elevation
    9 years ago

    No, mine didn't flower, but it still looks pretty darned small compared to the sizes y'all are planting. Mine came in a 3 inch pot, lol. The first summer, I had it in a big pot, but I received it after the heat had already set in. It only grew a few inches that year, but it looked great.

    Then I planted it on mounded soil in the fall. Ours is acid clay (with granite sand), so I mixed the clay with amendments and did mound for drainage. It took the bad winter beautifully (as it should in my zone, lol).

    All this year it has grown - but still to only about 2 feet tall. It definitely grows bushily for me. It went from two tiny twigs to a nice, bushy shape. I'll try to get some pictures, but it's leafless now :)

    I have not fertilized it yet, btw. The amendments were food, but it's probably time to properly fertilize come spring!

  • zendog
    9 years ago

    Meister_Z8b: When I checked my notes, it turns out I actually got 2 of the 24-36 and one of the 36-48 plants. They all came in around 36" but one, which I think was considered the 36-48, was a double trunk. All nice plants with good roots so I'm happy. I picked up a tester from Home Depot and did a quick test and the soil shows a little below 6 for Ph. I know these things are notoriously inaccurate, so I tested a bale of peat moss and some Promix BX which I know are acidic and they both showed about 5.5 so while maybe not exact, I think I can definitely say the soil is probably too acidic so I think I'll top dress some more lime to let that water in over winter.

    And to everybody else talking about Romeo. Arggghh! I don't really have the room but I want to add 2 of these as well. With a discount coupon I can get them pretty cheap from Henry Fields, but it looks like they have a pretty bad track record and they don't mention what size the plants are so I'm assuming they are probably just little twigs. Anyone have any thoughts on these or buying from HF in general?

  • meredith_e Z7b, Piedmont of NC, 1000' elevation
    9 years ago

    I got my teeny CJ from Henry Fields, as a matter of fact! It was really clearance priced. It was incredibly healthy, just quite small.

    I do recommend them for the little starts of these as far as health of the little plant goes. They might have different sizes. I'm sure mine said it was in a 3 inch pot, so I knew what I was in for that way.

    If you do go with the little babies, just make sure to pay more attention to it than you might for a bigger plant. The roots aren't as forgiving since there aren't too many of them comparatively ;) I potted mine up in good soil and checked frequently for water needs. It was still really easy to grow the whole time. I've had zero problems.

  • northwoodswis4
    9 years ago

    Okay, so it sounds like a lot of you have planted Carmine Jewels and other SK bush cherries, but not many of you have mentioned fruit yet. I would like to take a mini-survey of for how many years various forum members have had the various kinds and in which year the bushes started to fruit, or if they have started to fruit. I have a number of Carmine Jewels bought over the course of about six years, (counting fall planting) but none have fruited yet. Many started out tiny, but continue to grow steadily. Northwoodswis

  • drew51 SE MI Z5b/6a
    9 years ago

    Mine are two years old. The first year was rough. i feel like it was lost. The 2nd year was great. I have 2 Carmine Jewel plants. I don't expect them to fruit next year, the 3rd year. Too small. But I expect fruit the 4th year. We will see. Mine look like Don's first photo 2011 05 21.

  • Tony
    9 years ago

    I got 2 carmine Jewel and 1 Crimson Passion cherries. I planted them 4 years ago and they are about 7 feet tall now. The 2nd year I went over board with the Urea Nitrogen and they took off like crazy. I got about 20 cherries total with the 3 trees this summer. I am expecting a bigger harvest this coming season.

    Tony

  • felix_lill1609
    8 years ago

    Hey,
    I would love to do some grafting on my exsisting cherries.
    Can anyone provide me with scion wood of "Crimson passion" and/or
    "Carmine jewel". I would really appreciate your effort and also
    compensate for shipping, etc.

    Thank you very much!

  • trianglejohn
    8 years ago

    felix - this variety is patented and cannot be propagated legally the way you are attempting.

  • drew51 SE MI Z5b/6a
    8 years ago

    The patent expires in 2019 or so.

  • felix_lill1609
    8 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    Ah, I didn't know that. Thanks for mentioning. Is there a nursery where I can buy plants, which is sending to California?

  • parker25mv
    8 years ago

    I would like to point out that the whole reason Carmine Jewel (along with the other new varieties in this family from the University of Saskatchewan) has its deep color and level of sweetness is that it was bred using European tart cherry varieties, not the common Montmorency variety of tart cherry in America. Basically the only reason it was bred with P. fruticosa was to give it the traits of extreme cold-hardiness and dwarfed growing habit. So if you live in Texas, it might make a lot more sense to look into some of the European tart varieties.

  • stan_
    8 years ago

    felix_lill1609, I ordered mine from honeyberryUSA. I've received Romeo, Juliet and Carmine Jewel in early November (dormant and bareroot) and expect receiving Crimson Passion and Lutowka in the Spring.