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Received bare-root trees, packing is frozen

Posted by steve333 z5 CO Mountains (My Page) on
Thu, Nov 13, 14 at 15:49

Don't know about the rest of you but we here in CO have been having a pretty good cold snap. -15F last night. I have not seen anyone else talking much about it here, but maybe your keyboards are frozen ;)

Anyhow, I just got some bare root trees european plums, which were shipped on Tuesday, and there is ice on the roots, and the moist packing is frozen as hard as a rock. Nice looking trees, just got very cold in their box on the way here.

I called the supplier and they said to keep them in a cool place, keep the roots moist, and plant as soon as I can (probably Sunday or so), and everything should be OK.

Just wanted to check here if this is accurate, or if these trees are goners,


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: Received bare-root trees, packing is frozen

Who did you get them from? I know if its Stark Brothers they will replace them for free if they don't survive and thrive. That might be one reason they have been in business for 198 years.


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RE: Received bare-root trees, packing is frozen

Why would you order bare root trees now?


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RE: Received bare-root trees, packing is frozen

  • Posted by fruitnut z7b-8a,4500ft SW TX (My Page) on
    Thu, Nov 13, 14 at 17:19

I don't know what the critical temperature is for roots. But it's my understanding that the roots are less hardy than the top at this time of yr. I'd be really concerned at -15F but they probably didn't get that cold.

Final answer will come next spring but I'd look at the roots. If dead you can probably tell now just like you would the top. If it's brown at the cambium layer they're likely dead. If healthy looking they are likely OK. Start checking at root tips and work back. Tips will be dead first.


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RE: Received bare-root trees, packing is frozen

  • Posted by Drew51 5b/6a SE MI (My Page) on
    Thu, Nov 13, 14 at 18:26

Why would you order bare root trees now?

Fall is for planting! I planted a few trees this time of year. I don't think it is an advantage, but they all did fine. This time of year the ground is a lot warmer than it will be in the spring. but once in zone 5 it's iffy to plant in fall. Seems OK here in zone 6. Even last year after the terrible winter, the one tree I planted in fall lived. Some older already in ground died though! I lost one tree this spring, bare root arrived in spring, didn't make it. So my fall plantings did better this year. I do prefer to order in the spring, but at times it's nice to have it up and running come spring.
Not just trees, bulbs, garlic has to be planted now, well if you want large garlic bulbs, you should plant in the fall in my zone. I put about 25 cloves in the ground 2 weeks ago.
You can plant in the spring, but they mature later and are smaller.


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RE: Received bare-root trees, packing is frozen

Steve,

Burr is right! I am not sure how the ground will be next week when it's supposed to warm up to 40-something. I would pot them and keep them in the garage this winter.

I haven't had good luck with fall planting, but then again, I've only planted marginal trees in the fall. I'm concerned about my trees outside. We had such a beautiful fall. I picked my last squash two weeks ago! Now this...Ugh! Most of my trees still have leaves. My strawberries were blooming on Monday before I covered them.


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RE: Received bare-root trees, packing is frozen

I will check out the roots before I plant. They had ice on them but likely did not get down to the min temps up here, just in some unheated truck in a garage somewhere on the plains at a Fedex xfer station. Probably more like 15-20F, (I hope).

Fall planting up here is iffy, but so is spring planting. The reason I ordered these trees now is they are a variety that appears to be closed out, they aren't available next spring (which is when I originally ordered them for). Good news is I did place the order with Stark's, so if they don't live I can get a refund.

Funny thing is, up until this week, it was perfect weather for fall planting. Mild days and cool but not frigid nights. Fortunately I dug the holes last week, so by Monday should be able to plant these guys.


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RE: Received bare-root trees, packing is frozen

  • Posted by RedSun Z6 Central NJ (My Page) on
    Thu, Nov 13, 14 at 23:32

If indeed it was -15F already, you may be even colder than Z5. And bare root trees should not even be planted in this kind of hardy zone.

When the cold comes, our min forecast is still about low 20F's. Even that some folks are concerned.

Well hope all trees make it. But you are taking unwanted risks....


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RE: Received bare-root trees, packing is frozen

RedSun, this cold snap at -15F is unusually cold for this early in the season, but well within our zone's min of -20F. These sorts of temps are more common here in Jan and Feb not November.

Bare root trees do fine here. It's more common to plant them in the spring, but fall planting does work too most of the time. You just have to worry about what is going on now, an early cold snap that freezes the trees in transit, or makes planting them delayed.

There are quite a few trees that do quite well in this climate/zone (many apples and pears, cherries and a few plums). I have 30 or so of them planted, all from bare root, and most are doing well. Of course it is too short a season for some varieties, and I have lost a few trees too, but so do folks in warmer zones.

You may be surprised as to what sorts of fruit one can grow in the colder climates.


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RE: Received bare-root trees, packing is frozen

  • Posted by RedSun Z6 Central NJ (My Page) on
    Fri, Nov 14, 14 at 0:03

To better understand the hardy zones, we should ask:

The absolute cold temperatures;
Days temp below -10F;
Days temp below -15F;
Days temp below -20F; etc
Temp extremes in November, April and probably May.

If you have such a large temp swings during shoulder months, then your effective hardy zone should be colder than the published zone.

The spring temperature swings can certainly cause a lot of damages.


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RE: Received bare-root trees, packing is frozen

I ordered several bare root trees myself and they should arrive anytime now. Though here I don't have to worry about it getting as cold as it does up north. Though last night it got down in the low 20's.


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RE: Received bare-root trees, packing is frozen

  • Posted by RedSun Z6 Central NJ (My Page) on
    Fri, Nov 14, 14 at 10:58

What the heck Z8 can be colder than my Z6 :-))))

The lowest we've gotten is about 26F at night.

This is why New Jersey calls itself the "Garden State"


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RE: Received bare-root trees, packing is frozen

  • Posted by fruitnut z7b-8a,4500ft SW TX (My Page) on
    Fri, Nov 14, 14 at 11:15

Figs over winter better in NJ than in TX. Reason is we swing from 60s to teens every week all winter. That shows up spring and fall. Our first freeze this fall 21F, last this spring 23F, first last fall 19F. The spring freeze mid April this yr killed 50-60 of my trees.


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RE: Received bare-root trees, packing is frozen

  • Posted by RedSun Z6 Central NJ (My Page) on
    Fri, Nov 14, 14 at 11:32

The swings hurt more in spring than in early winter. In this kind of weather, hardy zones won't even apply. I was in west Texas a couple of times and the wind is really strong, in addition to the temperature swings.


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RE: Received bare-root trees, packing is frozen

Planted the subject trees today. It was sunny (mostly) and mid 40's. Dirt and the previously dug holes had "defrosted." Tree roots looked fine, but I'll find out for sure next spring.

We have one more cold night then back into the 40's during the day and 20's at night. A few weeks of that and these trees should do fine.


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RE: Received bare-root trees, packing is frozen

Man, I wouldn't consider planting bare roots in a climate with possible below zero temps in the early Fall. If the trees come from a milder climate they would not be nearly hardened for those lows, I suspect.

One year when we got to zero in mid-Nov, established trees died at an alarming rate- trees that are fine at -20 or lower.

If the trees were dug up in an area with similar weather I wouldn't be so concerned, but hardening off is a gradual process that isn't complete until January in most weather.

At least protect the roots with a thick layer of airy mulch and make sure the soil is wet enough to store heat.

Not that I have any experience planting trees in your type of climate.


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RE: Received bare-root trees, packing is frozen

  • Posted by RedSun Z6 Central NJ (My Page) on
    Sat, Nov 15, 14 at 18:03

The transit temperature should be much better than -15F. So the plants should be fine. I hear harvestman's concern. You soil is probably not very cold yet, but the air temperature is not good for the top. Wrap the trees like you planting fig trees in ground.

The other way is to put the bare root trees in containers and store in garage. But this may not be practical if you have so many trees.

Good luck with your planting. Have you planted bare root trees in the fall in the past?


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RE: Received bare-root trees, packing is frozen

Redsun, I have planted bare root trees in the fall before, Apricot and cherry when the nursery "accidentally" shipped them in the fall instead of the next spring. They are doing fine. I don't do it by choice usually, and did not this time either. I was told that the variety I wanted was being discontinued, available now but not next spring.

I agree with Hman that these trees are probably not as hardened off as would be ideal. But given the circumstances it's what I'll have to go with. Probably would not have done it except that the seller guarantees they will live. Although since they were dormant and in storage prior to shipping, they were probably in better shape than trees still in leaf when the cold snap hits.


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RE: Received bare-root trees, packing is frozen

I do most of my installations in the fall and plant until the ground is frozen most seasons. I've been doing this through test winters where temps got as low as -25 a month or so after trees were moved. It's never been a problem, but the trees were always grown fairly close to where they were moved.

I'm a huge endorser of fall planting, it is just the suddeness of the weather change that concerns me. The frozen roots are likely fine for the reasons already expressed here although, off the top of my head, I don't know what the roots can take. I've had bare root peaches in my truck that survived 20 degrees fine.


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