Icho,

I know Scott Smith had a couple varieties of the Hyakume. He can fill you in more of this variety.

Tony

Thanks Tony! I hope I made the right choice. (It's a newly introduced Asian Persimmon, so I was afraid no one here tasted yet).

I hope ScottS can share some of his wisdoms with me :)

I lost my graft of Yamato Hyakume. I still have Amagaki Hyakume and Koshu Hyakume. The Amagaki fruited, its good, very sweet. They are as sweet as but somewhat less flavorful than Chocolate, a PVNA. Amagaki requires a long season, it barely ripens for me. All the Hyakume are PVNA, they need pollination to taste good. I'm not sure if it will pollinate with what you have. Chocolate produces many male blossoms and pollinates all my persimmons.

Scott

Thank you Scott. Sorry that you lost your graft of the Yamato.

By the way, I purchased two graft of Yamato of same size (So they can pollinate each other) . Do you not think that will work out?

Scott, does that mean that all of your Asian persimmons have seeds?

Yamato Hyakume is not really newly introduced. It shows up in Univ. FL data back in 1994. I tasted some Yamato at a field day back in the early 90's but don't recall which one. Curious where did you find it for sale?

Thanks

Icho,

You got 2 of the same Yamato persimmons and that will not pollinate each other. As Scott indicated that you may want to buy another one with a male flower and taste good like Chocolate persimmon for cross pollination. I have a small Yamagaki (Mountain persimon-very cold hardy) and this one will also produce fruits and has male flowers. Edible Landscaping used to sell them but they discontinued them a while back.

Tony

Murky, yes all my persimmons have seeds.

Strudel, it looks like someone on eBay is selling it.

iChoudhury, looking at the eBay listing the seller says it is self pollinating. It could be that it produces flowers like Chocolate and can pollinate itself. Persimmons are not well understood and its hard to find reliable information on pollination. I am pretty sure my Chocolate is pollinating itself for example, but I never read that anywhere.

Scott

I'd plant whatever you want and if it turns out it needs a pollinator and you don't have room graft a Chocolate persimmon scion onto a branch.

strudeldog , I actually bought mine from Marthassecrets Tropical fruit plant site. I just did some googling and those are the only two source appears to sell this 2-graft combo. I initially thought they sell it in pair for pollination purpose, but now that i hear they may not be the best option, I am a bit disappointed.

A park adjacent to my house has couple of American Persimmon tree (huge) - A squirrel heaven. Looking at those tree, I got my first Fuyu but later wanted an Astringent variety also; thus my impulse purchase. :))

Before long, I know me .. I will end up with a Coffee Cake variety too ...lol

I'm confused about these names....I have a variety that is just named 'Hyakume' AFAIK. Are they all siblings or something?

According to
http://www.hort.purdue.edu/newcrop/morton/japanese_persimmon.html

'Yamato Hyakume' is large, with red skin; has little tannin when seed content is low; tends to growth-ring cracking; is a heavy bearer in Florida.

I think within Hyakume, there are different varieties of persimmons, Yamato Hyakume ,Amagaki Hyakume,Koshu Hyakume and maybe others. I am definitely not an expert (Learned most about it so far from this thread) :).

I like to know more!

Thanks

That is actually the same supplier that Scott noted on ebay. They have a website and sell from ebay. Always looking for a new source of different plants.

You are right :) ... when I went back to eBay and saw that the seller on ebay also Martha's secret, so just two store front :) ...

I have searched and searched, but have not found much more info on this persimmon. According to Purdue

According to http://www.hort.purdue.edu/newcrop/morton/japanese_persimmon.html

"'Hyakume'��"round-oblong to round-oblate, somewhat 4-angled and flat at both ends; 2 3/4 in (7 cm) long, 3 1/8 in (8 cm) wide; skin pale dull-yellow to light-orange, with brown russeting when ripe; flesh dark-brown, crisp, sweet, non-astringent whether hard or ripe. Midseason. Fairly good quality; somewhat unattractive externally. Stores and ships well. "

= Which directly contradict with Martha's Secret (Astringent vs non-astringent)

I guess I will know when I can actually taste the fruit :)

This post was edited by ichoudhury on Sat, Jan 25, 14 at 23:27

Can i resurrect this thread? @ichoudhury, how did Yamato turn out? Know of a place i can get one grafted and shipped to Kenya?

Hi Simon

It was delicious but I only got to taste 1 or 2 because of those pesky squirrels!! :) ... It was similar to store bought Hachyia but tad more sweeter, mild spiciness (cinnamony taste) and absolutely no trace of astringency. But that was possibly i let it ripe on the tree (protected) and picked when it was prime for eating (as opposed to store bought ones that are picked unripe and other process used to remove astringent taste ... or I'm just biased :)).

Anyway, after that season, I encountered pretty finicky weather and frost nearly killed the plant (but it resurrected ... phew) .. so I am back at it, anticipating on the next growth. I could have given you a cutting if you were in the US, but not sure what sort of export law I might violate if I ship to Kenya. :(

As for a source for you to get in Kenya, I am honestly not sure. I noticed that Martha's Secret site, ebay all showing unavailable. I'm sure it is somewhere out there (maybe even labeled differently).

Good Luck!

Would you happen to have any bud wood to spare?

hello ... I can probably send you a cutting or two as I do not have much growth since the dieback. I'm actually allowing the tree to recover from the stress it went through. Isn't this little late in the season for grafting? Do you rather wait for next winter (I will take cutting when the tree goes dormant)? Just email me ahead

You are correct, next year would be great!

Hi there,

Hoping everyone is still active. I’m searching for a cinnamon persimmon and believe is also called hyakume or Howard’s Amagake. We’re in California and looking for a tree or cutting. Any information you can help with would be amazing. Thank you in advance

I second what Christy Bode wrote eleven months ago still unanswered. Where the heck are the sellers of Amagaki Hyakume trees hiding??

I found a seed recently and we’re germinating it. Hopefully it will take however it’s not guaranteed it will be that species since it’s a grafted tree typically

Melissa’s Produce has branded the “Cinnamon” persimmon, which is the “Howard’s Amagaki” hyakume persimmon grown by Twin Peaks Orchard in Newcastle, California, so-called for the cinnamon-like specks throughout its flesh. We grow specialty persimmons for the Four Seasons Hotels. In order of our Asian chefs’ preference for sweetness and richness are: Saijo (Japanese for “the best”), Hyakume (“cinnamon”), Maru (“brown sugar”) and the Tsurunoko (“chocolate”), all of which are astringent and all of which contain seeds, and the American Meader persimmon, which is usually seedless. We pick them hard but fully colored, and cure them in sealed containers with organic green bananas, green pears and small bowls of sake. They become pudding-soft in 5-to-7 days, depending on the variety. All persimmons are easy to grow, have great insect and pathogen resistance, do not require amendment-rich soil and need only moderate water. They do best, however, with full sun and a long summer season. Desert temperatures, however, create an unsightly black sunburn on the skin. We recommend 3-to-4-foot bareroot trees planted in February or March (before bud break). Thinning of the fruit for size is essential. Persimmon wood is brittle, and heavy fruit set, if allowed to grow to maturity, will break branches, especially in the wind. In addition to the Southeast, many Western nurseries carry a decent selection, including Raintree Nursery, Rolling River, Nature Hills, and Trees of Antiquity. Availability will end soon, so online purchases should be made in the next few weeks. For more information and an incredible Southern Colonial persimmon sticky pudding recipe from 1720, scroll down the timeline of our Facebook page: Philen Pharms

I’ve purchased many Melissas fruit cinnanmon and over the last 2 years I’ve only been lucky to find 1 seed and we successfully germinated that last week and it’s growing currently in Southern California in our small greenhouse. Are you saying I can get this variety from one of the farms you listed?

I'm sure you know that a seed is not reliable in producing the fruit of the mother tree and that it is often disappointing in terms of the quality of fruit. Btw, I will look at my fruit tree purchase logs over the past 17 years and try to figure out the nursery or nurseries from which we secured our bareroot hyakume trees. Be back to you later today.

Yes we new we would be taking a chance but figured why not try. Thanks so much for getting back to me and I look forward to hearing from you. We would love a cutting or tree ;)

Christy, went through our paperwork from 2004-2008 and found two invoices, one for ten bareroot Hyakume trees from Orange County Nursery (which, sadly, closed a few years back after being in business for more than 100 years), and two trees from Exotica Rare Fruit Nursery in Vista, California. I double-checked all of the nurseries that I mentioned in my original post and none carry the Hyakume. You might try Exotica at (760) 724-9093, which may still carry them. They were already closed for Christmas Eve when I called. Keep in mind, most all nurseries outside of California will not send persimmon tree stock into California, so you'll have to find bareroot Hyakume trees within our state. If Exotica no longer carries them, you'll simply have to research and telephone all of the California nursery outlets you can find. I would think there would be a nursery in the San Joaquin Valley that would have them. Look for areas where persimmons are grown, and the local nurseries might well have the Hyakume in 5- or 15-gallon pots. If all else fails, plant Saijo persimmons, which are available at many California nurseries. When Saijos are small they tend to be seedless and are without equal in sweetness and richness. They are the connoisseur's choice! Phruitfully, Timothy @ Philen Pharms

Thanks so much for your help. Do you recall the name of the nursery in OC since that’s where I reside ;)

The name was "Orange County Nursery," but they've been out of business for about ten years. Exotica, in Vista, near San Diego, might have them. Call the number I mentioned and see. If they don't have Hyakumes, start Googling and calling California nurseries in farming counties to see if anyone does have them. They are certainly worth the effort. All the best.

Like Christy, i have succesfully germanated seeds of some Amagakis from Twin Peaks. I started the process 3 weeks ago...and now i am excited to see the progress.

But while digging for more info (which led me here), i am wondering if the Amagakis need pollinizer? or are they self fruitful? Astringent? Curing? How big the tree can grow? Can i espalier? ( i wish i have a bigger backyar) when do i transfer it to a pot? and most important, what are my chances of successfully harvesting my own sweet amagakis?

Oh well, i will update this board And share my experience.

Thanks Timothy from Philen Farms! Very useful info you shared here. Much appreciated. You got me interested with those Saijos. Any more tips?

...Also, I checked Dave Wilson’s site and they do have info on some Nurseries that sells Saijos.

near Sacramento

Keep in mind a few things: Persimmons, like all fruit grown from seeds instead of grafts, can differ in taste, quality, appearance and bearing tendency from the fruit of the mother tree as it may have been cross pollinated by another variety. That differing is often to the detriment of the fruit characteristics. Hyakume types generally are astringent when seedless, and need curing (see my post above), but seedlessness is a much preferred trait, because all persimmon seeds are large enough and usually plentiful enough to impact enjoyment of the fruit. American persimmons need pollinating partners, most Asian persimmons do not. Many of my trees are seedless one year and seeded the next, mostly because of the way the wind, rain and insect travel pollination patterns developed. Finally, as I posted above, bareroot grafted Hyakume persimmon trees are very hard to find. A good source of Saijo persimmon trees is Raintree Nursery in Morton, Washington. Here's their Saijo page. They may still have bareroot trees (4' - 5') available for this winter/spring and they do ship to California. https://raintreenursery.com/products/saijo-lotus-spring?_pos=1&_sid=7fa463049&_ss=r

I love seeing people grow out seedlings. The misconception that the fruit will be bad has stopped people from growing things from seed. If the parents produce good fruit, then you will likely to get good fruit from the offspring. With some luck you may have something better, if you have the space and time, keep growing and trying. many of the common fruits are just chance seedlings, so why not take more chances.

We too love the growing out of seedlings. And why shouldn’t we? Chance seedlings, or those deliberately grown by fruit breeders, have been the progenitors of most of the great new varieties of fruits over the past three centuries. Most of the 101 varieties of heirloom apples at Philen Pharms, for example, were originally the result of the choosing of a single seedling that bore exceptionally flavorful fruit and, after that, propagating from grafts of the mother tree to maintain the characteristics of the variety (of course, “sports” (naturally occurring mutations on a branch) can also give rise to a new variety). As Mr. Long correctly points out above, it is a misconception that the fruit of all seedlings will be substandard in taste, but if you're looking to reproduce the flavor, aroma, flesh texture and color of the fruit of a mother tree, you will often be disappointed, especially given that you've nurtured that seedling for six or seven or more years before bearing, which is usually the case with trees grown from seed. As for the Hyakume persimmons mentioned above, if I had not been able to secure grafted bareroot trees, I might too have taken a chance on seedlings from Hyakume seeds found in a purchased piece of fruit, because it's one of my three favorites. And, of course, anyone who has the space, time, resources and determination to do a homegrown version of a fruit breeder’s growing grounds, might one day produce a chance seedling that is a great new find. But for the average home gardener with limited space — backyards aren’t what they used to be — who’s looking to replicate as soon as possible a piece of fruit whose taste is particularly prized, why take a chance on a seedling if you can find a one-year-old grafted bareroot tree on a precocious rootstock that will quicken the time to bearing? And if you can't find one, I believe a grafted tree of another reliably delicious variety is your best bet. For information about our favorite varieties of the temperate fruits we grow, as well as a listing of the finest American nurseries that sell bareroot trees online, scroll down our timeline: https://www.facebook.com/philen.pharms