I've come to following decisions/short list, but would like a little feedback from experienced growers to ensure I'm on the right track....

-Grafted on D. virginiana for extra hardiness, which directs me to JF&E and EL. I'm leaning towards EL since they are in a cold climate and shipping is little cheaper.
-The following varieties are the short list: Ichi Ki Kei Jiro , Izu, Gwang Yang, and Tam Kam. I'm pretty set on Ichi Ki Kei Jiro , but possibly Gwang Yang if SDS is something I should be concerned about. Any thoughts?
-It will be planted by the south facing part of my house near where I have one of my figs doing well and the deer can't get to.
-In the future I'll likely add a Saijo, Great Wall, or Tecumseh. I figure a non-astringent will be easier to get my wife to eat first and we'll add another later.

Thanks for your thoughts!
Kelby

I've tried to do a lot of asking around on very similar questions. If I were choosing non-astringents based on likelihood of surviving and doing well longer term in a very marginal zone (especially with the occasional winter like the last one, 2013-14, although late spring freezes may be just as much a concern depending on your location), based on the anecdotes I've heard, I'd be less hopeful for Ichi than the other three you listed. Also, Hana fuyu is another non-astringent that seems to be a relatively better survivor.

I was leaning towards Ichi based on TonyTran's info (granted he uses protection) and the recommendation of Bass from Trees of Joy, which is not too far from me.

I live on a west facing slope, so we're usually pretty good at avoiding late freezes from my experience.

We acquired our persimmon collection directly from Japan. My father, Dr. A.T. Wallace, had a Japanese graduate student at the University of Florida that sent the 30 best varieties from the Okitsu Research Station near Tokyo to my father as a gift when he returned to Japan. My grandfather, Dr. Bob Dunstan, grafted them off to wild persimmons growing on our farm and these are the original introductions of some of the best varieties that Japan has to offer. Our collection is unique to American horticulture and we have sold tens of thousands of persimmon trees over the last 30 years to growers all over the U.S.

The most common commercial varieties grown today are Hachiya (astringent, conical shape) and Fuyu (non-astringent, flat shape). However, there are excellent new varieties that we offer that have better flavor, or ripen earlier than these varieties. There are several very cold hardy cultivars that can be grown in protected locations as far north as PA and NY, especially in the milder microclimates along the coast

I think you should just try growing them but just know that they can be damaged severely and so set back that you may not have fruits for a few years.

Kousa, I have accepted that not every year is a winner with any fruit, but I like to try and grow things that are uncommon. I have figs too, so I'm used to losing out in a bad year. Good note that I should be prepared to protect. At least this winters long term forecast from NOAA looks mild!

The IKKJ died back to the ground this past winter, while the other two are fine. Of course, it is in a slightly more exposed position than the other two, so you can't say anything too conclusive. None have fruited yet, but the Tam Kam is my favorite (so far) due to its thick lush green leaves.

I can't find a lot of info on Tam Kam, I was wondering about it's background if anyone has any info. I see it listed here and there as the hardiest non-astringent Kaki, but nothing too substantive. Is it a relatively new variety?

-Kelby

I think I have every cultivar mentioned in this thread with exception of Tecumseh and several others as well. Everything including the ones listed zone 8 survived 0 F last winter without much if any damage when fully dormant. Fluctuating Spring is the killer for zone 7. late freeze in early April after warmish weather that broke bud is killer and seems to be the norm for my location. I have lost trees in the mid 20s, same for Jujube which I have lost after leaf break at temps higher then I ever expected so lose trees. I need to pay more attention which cultivars are later to leaf. I believe Jiro and sports are a little later in breaking dormancy. My persimmon at my house are on a very exposed windy hillside, and at my other location in a low mountain creek valley Probably not the best placement.

Think your selections if limiting to N.A. are good choices, but most of those are my younger trees.

Alex is a member on this Forum and he had successfully fruited Tam Kam. you can read the link below. These days, I have learned that the best way to ensure a re-grow of grafted Kakis by winter killed is to bury them a foot below the graft union. I have encountered harsh winter in Omaha every ten years or so (when temp dropped to -19F). This way of planting will ensure re-grow of the grafted Kaki varieties instead of the native root stocks (D. Virginiana).

Tony

Tony, have you encountered any problems with the rot or anything else by planting so deep? I was planning on mulching heavily around the trunk and graft union in winters. If planting deep hasn't presented any issues I may try that instead.

Tony

I had plans to plant several persimmon trees. But since most of them are listed as hardy to zone 7, I changed plan. So I do not grow any persimmon now. I'm going to put in some Asian pears and apple in the garden space.

I already have a lot of fruit trees, so I'm going to spend more time to get more production from them, instead of growing new varieties.

I'm going to start seedlings of American persimmon and graft some varieties in the future such as Ichi, Saijo, Great Wall, the hybrids and maybe some American selections such as Early Golden.

Tony

Interestingly, the twigs still looked green under the bark (by the thumbnail test) well after the hardest part of the winter, giving me false hope that there was no damage.

Alex

I agree with you, bboy. Last winter my area killed thousands of butterfly bushes. They are perfectly hardy a full zone below mine, but the length of cold seems to have done them in, probably down to the roots in areas with no mulch.

Tony

I was planning to supplement with American persimmons, since those are hardier, although it concerns me that they don't seem to grow wild around here. Right now I'm looking at Early Golden and 100-46, both of which are supposed to be self-fertile.

And then a Roseyanka to round things out.

This will be my first orchard, so any advice would be appreciated.

You should have no problems growing American persimmons in your locale. 100-46 has a lot of good attributes - very productive, large fruit, pretty early ripening and precocious. It has good taste but not the best. It also has a tendency in my orchard to produce fruit with patches of black discoloration of the skin which I believe are sun induced. Prok may be a better choice if you only want one tree, though it's neither as productive nor as large fruited as 100-46.

England's nursery may have a better selection of some of the more recently bred varieties of American persimmon.

~Chills

I think your best option is to graft Rossyanka hybrid (-20F) or David L. new Great wall hybrid persimmon call Kassandra (-11F so far at England Orchard without any die back). I am going to graft Kassandra this coming spring for a cold hardy trial in zone 5. Kassandra photo below.

Tony

At present I'm leaning towards Saijo but the others intrigue me. As a reminder I am in SE PA, zone 6b.

Tony

Anything varieties that are particularly late? I enjoy eating straight off the tree, and would enjoy having some fresh fruit hanging around in the winter.

If I were looking particularly for late persimmons, Rosseyanka and Tecumseh come to mind. Check out the link below for a ripening order list of Edible Landscaping's persimmons.

Edited to add: it seems to me there's more of a difference between the native persimmons and rosseyanka in terms of the fresh eating season than EL's list suggests. My impression is that the rosseyanka season extends well beyond any of the natives. I know I got to eat Rosseyanka's off EL's tree (i.e. at EL) in mid-December. Perhaps it's just that they ripen earlier than December but hold on the tree better than the natives.

what about fruit weight of Kassandra hybrid? Look very nice, similiar to Rosseyanka fruits, but probably bigger.

all

Which variety of non astringent persimmon is the most cold hardy and which best tasting?

Cliff stated the Kassandra hybrid is about 2.5 to 3 inches in diameter with the Brix of 21. Creekweb mentioned the 20th Century Asian persimmon is the hardiest non-astringent in his orchard even for a small tree.

Tony

"At minus -11 degree F our 300 kakis froze out last winter and I have only Virginiana and 253 cultivars perished due to the cold"

Ouch.

I found on web, that 20th Century Asian persimmon is astringent variety, so not sure about this ...

Amper - any information, which varieties survived -10 F ?

Creekweb's post from above shows that 20th Century persimmon is non-astringent. ScottSmith also grew this non-astringent 20th Century for years in Maryland. I got 2 newly grafted non-astringent 20th Century in pots this past summer and I am overwinter them in my garage right now. I am sure they are non-astringent.

Tony

thanks for your specification about 20 th Century. I did not find any information here in Europe, where is it possible to get some cuttings? One nursery in Australia offer this, but so far from my area.