Julia,

Far as the blackberries it sounds to me like insufficient pollination. On my rabbiteye blueberries I get a decent crop 2 out of 3 years. On the warm years the plants break leaf buds sporadically and the flower buds mostly abort but will get some fruit even in the warmest years. The fruit is generally very large due to there being so few berries.

Hey Julia, dont know to much about the varieties u listed. The web site for urban harvest only recommends Kiowa for our area because they say its so superior to all others for the Houston area. I got 6 of them last spring and they were covered with berries when i bought them. I believe thats the only varity they even offer at there fruit sales untill now. I saw yesterday they will be offering a new variety called Tupi. Its a mexico variety and its the first time ive heard of it.

Tupi Great berry its from Brazil, but from mexico alright.
I just got off phone with Gary Pense ordered 10 plants there limit supply this year. Gary I talk about 20 minutes on phone about old times and weather Tupi blackberry is one that U.S. has needed for long time there sweet large and throny and take heat. I'm testing plant for Double blossom will take 3 years. Gary number is (479) 369-2007 in day time its on Fax so have to way he comes in evening CDT time.

Thanks for post on Tupi blueboy1977

No problem Gator, Im excited about trying them in the Houston area. I have a few questions for you about erect thorny varities, namely Kiowa and Tupi!

1. I got 6 Kiowas last spring and 3 of them have very thin canes. Is this because they r still immature and should I just remove the canes this spring before they flower or go ahead and let them produce fruit? Im just not sure if u treat these plants like other fruit and let them mature before producing berries?

2. I tipped the canes at about 4 ft and they only produced 1 or 2 branches and just keep growing up to 7ft. Should I cut the branches back to 18 inches or so, or just leave them be? The branches r now 3 to 4ft long.

3. I planted them to close for comfort, 2ft apart so its a jungle in there. I also planted them next to my fence so getting behind the plants is impossible. When would be the best time to transplant them with out sacrificing a years crop from stress or that even possible?

Thanks

I have a couple Kiowas I put in last year, too, and I have the same question as Blueboy about the thickness of the canes. Mine are very thin too.

I've thought about taking out the Navaho (or Apache) and putting in a Kiowa since I've heard that they do so much better here. However, this one plant looks so much better and healthier than my Kiowas. Of course, it may have bloomed so well last year because it was a particularly cold winter. I guess I'll see how it does this year.

Thin canes are never a good sign but some plants just have more vigor than others. If the canes are too thin I would simply cut the plant way back while dormant to prevent it from fruiting and that energy that would have went to fruit will go to cane production.

Mulch definitely helps especially in our hot summers to keep the roots cool and happy. The mulch also breaks down to help the soil. I cover the soil 2 feet out from the plants each way in 10 inches of wood chips also between plants. It will pack down some after that. If you have access to manure it helps a lot...horse or rabbit or whatever. The manure also helps break the chips down faster. Mulched that heavily you will need a bit of extra nitrogen, I use chemical and watch the leaves for signs of nitrogen deficit.

1. I got 6 Kiowas last spring and 3 of them have very thin canes. Is this because they r still immature and should I just remove the canes this spring before they flower or go ahead and let them produce fruit? Im just not sure if u treat these plants like other fruit and let them mature before producing berries?
Yes To first Question let them go ahead let fruit because there now Floricanes and don't take away from plants growth in 2012 which are primacanes.
Floricanes has energy for fruiting allready so pruning will just loose fruits.
Im just not sure if u treat these plants like other fruit and let them mature before producing berries? You do all pruning on Primacanes none on Floricanes until after fruiting prune hold cane from plant base.

2. I tipped the canes at about 4 ft and they only produced 1 or 2 branches and just keep growing up to 7ft. Should I cut the branches back to 18 inches or so, or just leave them be? The branches r now 3 to 4ft long. The growth change in 2012 to Dayem that plant growing on new primacane. Tip changes in south from north mountains Tiping use what called long cane practice in south because longer growing season I see V trellis in you future so hold up plants. Prune main new canes of 2012 six foot tall these fall over without V Trellis allow as grow lean onto wires this tighten wires there no need fight wire to be tight canes do that just install with slack out.
Laterals use 36 inches not 18" hanging over wires this give wall berry fruits out side wire.

3. I planted them to close for comfort, 2ft apart so its a jungle in there. I also planted them next to my fence so getting behind the plants is impossible. When would be the best time to transplant them with out sacrificing a years crop from stress or that even possible?
I would move half plants from fence now when new site ready mix with mature chicken litter is best out broil houses Kiowas 4 foot is tight over 8 foot loose between hedge rows 14 foot tight over 22 foot loose I've had only 4 to 6 foot alley way between Kiowa at 22 foot rows.

Thin canes are from infertile soil and small crown on plants this grow out plants in one year if fertile almost impossible to grow from root cutting to thick cane in one year but after 2 years no different than big crown transplant. The reason grow long canes in South is fewer cane come up from crown like one to 3 in north mountains there 7 to 9 canes from crown so 18" applicable for lateral pruning and shorter canes at 52" top out.

Just remember 2011 does not apply to practice for 2012 are 2013 after that 2014 will be same old same old etc.

As to the original question, what happens to a plant that does not get enough chilling hours. Generally speaking, the plant doesn't get enough "rest" and grows over a greater portion of the year than it is dormant. The result is the plant gets a little weaker every year and has to be replaced more often. A good example is in California where they grow a lot of almonds in the south below the minimum chilling hour line; the almonds do well, but have to be replaced about every 15 years compared to 25 or more in Northern California. Wine grapes have the same issue. I don't have any personal experience with blackberries other than in Northern California, so my answer may not strictly apply to your blackberries; but it is true for Mediterranean fruits.

Wow, Johnmerr, that wasn't at all the answer I was expecting. I guess the idea that they don't get enough rest and that shortens their lifespan makes sense, but are you saying some fruit plants will still set fruit with less than required chill hours? That's interesting - I didn't know that.

I'll see about fertilizing my thin Kiowas well in the spring. I do have them mulched well with cedar, so maybe it tying up some nitrogen. Like I said, the other plant in the same bed with the same treatment seems very happy. We'll see how they do this year. Maybe Kiowas are a little slower to establish than some varieties or something?

I do know a little about Kiowas; we grow a lot of them in Guatemala for export to Europe and US; we don't even get half of the chilling hours, but they produce huge amounts of fruit. The only problem here, is we have to replace the plants quite often; but it is still a very good business. BTW, if you buy blackberries this time of year in the US, there is a very good chance they come from Guatemala; and if you buy a Poinsettia for Christmas, 70 pecent of the plants sold in the US come from Guatemala; they are grown by a Calif. company; because here is the place they came from and they flower naturally at Christmas time... some people even use them for livestock fences in the highlands.

The same can apply to apples; in the tropics they settle into a pattern of fruiting twice a year; after fruiting the irrigation is shut off and the leaves stripped by hand; this usually triggers blossoming in 6-8 weeks and since the day length and latitude of the sun is constant, it thinks it's spring again. This much growing and fruiting requires extra fertilizer and the trees never do get that big, usually planted 6' apart on vigorous rootstocks. The first year they're planted the whips can get 10' tall if the leaves aren't stripped in time.

Applenut

What happens if the fruit tree never goes into dormancy in the first place? The climate is so warm where I am, if a fruit tree is planted in a sunny location it might never go into dormancy.

In terms of trying to get fruit production, I would think that would be better than having the tree go into dormancy and then stay like that because it doesn't get enough chill hours, missing out on a big part of the year.
(it will slowly come out of dormancy as things warm up, but it will take a long time)

This post was edited by Socal2warm on Tue, Jan 13, 15 at 23:39

If it never goes into dormancy it can't come out of dormancy and therefore can't bloom. Read my answer to Tim if you want to know how to increase chilling in your area.

This post was edited by fruitnut on Wed, Jan 14, 15 at 11:56

"What happens when a fruit [tree] doesn't get enough chill hours?"

It's better luck next year....

Maybe it depends on the type of fruit tree and the exact cultivar. Some might never bloom if they do get any chill, others might be able to continue to bloom (though less prolifically) even if they never really go into dormancy each year.

How established a fruit tree is, and how much sun the plant gets, can be the deciding factor between fruit or no fruit, if the environmental conditions are not ideal.
(usually more sun is better, but less sun can be better if the regional chill hours are right on the borderline of what the plant needs and the shaded part of the plant can remain colder in the winter)

To specifically answer the OP, we do not really get any chill where I live, and there are some wild blackberry plants growing around here, which produce a fair amount of fruit at the right time of year.

This post was edited by Socal2warm on Wed, Jan 28, 15 at 18:06