I've never seen the thornless Tayberry in the US. There are not even that many places selling Tayberry. I pulled up my Tayberries a few years ago, I was not particularly fond of their flavor. Loganberries on the other hand I love.

BTW you may be too cold for Loganberries. I have had a very hard time in my zone and I am perhaps a bit warmer than you. The Tayberries are more hardy than Logans.

Scott

Hi Scott-

IÂve yet to meet a bramble that I donÂt like and I also am willing to fresh-eat a few things that others donÂt seem to be as crazy about (wild grapes, wintergreen, cranberries, currents, wild blackberries), so IÂm not too worried about the taste Even if itÂs only half as good as a blackberry, IÂd still like to have it just so I can have the variety, and learn something. If it doesnÂt work out, I can always pull it out. And this is only 2 spots weÂre talking about here The rest of the 10 will go to the very reliable/proven blackberries.

ItÂs interesting that you like the Loganberries over the Tayberries. From what IÂd read, I thought that the Tayberry was basically an improved Loganberry.

Good point about my growing zone for the Loganberry. With how well my other brambles do, I guess I didnÂt realize I was close to the threshold. Being close to the ocean, I know IÂm definitely a 6b, but IÂm closer to the 6 than I am 7. At Raintree, they said zones 6-10, but I agree, thatÂs a little closer to the edge of the growing zone that IÂd like to be. Did you do anything special to help yours out in your environment?
I wonder if there are different varieties of L/T-berries (which might be better for my zone)? Originally, I didnÂt think there were, but seeing "Buckingham" makes me wonder if there are? I wonder why the thornless ones are only in England?

Thanks,
-Glenn

Glenn, I think Tay is considered better due to much greater productivity. Logans are not very productive at all unfortunately. Many people do like Tays, but they stay too sour and not sweet enough; if you pick them when they have finally gotten ripe they have gone to mush. I think there also may be some climate issue there, they may ripen better in a cooler climate.

You can grow any blackberry where you are if you take the canes off the trellis, lay them on the ground, and cover with leaves or other insulation for the winter. I used to do this. My additional problem is the spot I put the Logan/Marionberries in was too low in light, so I decided to give up on them for now. I have now turned that into a spot for currants and gooseberries, which seem to be more tolerant of low light. Another factor is that Triple Crown taste nearly as good as any of these other kinds, are completely hardy, and are very productive and easy to grow.

Speaking of Marionberries, those are the best flavor of any blackberry or blackberry cross I tried, and you should look into them.

Scott

Glenn,

I'd recommend subbing out one of the TC's with a Schultz blackberry (Edible Landscaping, described below). Or, since it is semi-erect (and thornless), you can grow it without a trellis and still grow 3 TC's. The entry road to Edible Landscaping is lined with these (w/o a trellis) and they are some of the best I've ever tasted (based on memory not side-by-side tastings). They stand upright to about 5 feet and then arch outwards if you "prune them chest high in July." (Micheal, the owner's words).

Regarding the Tayberry, Edible's catalog recommends Wyeberries (described below) as a hardier, more productive and tastier replacement for Tayberries. I got a Tayberry from them (before they switched to carrying Wyeberries) that fruited for the first time this year. I only had a few berries because the plant was so young, but the berries did turn to mush as I waited for them to ripen (and I like tart fruit).

Scott, I was curious how your Marionberry experiment went (I'd read some of your past posts about growing them). I'm trying to grow one, as well. You may already know this, but Burnt Ridge sells a Sylvan blackberries (described below) as a more hardy substitute for Marionberries. I've got one that's very vigorous, but it hasn't fruited yet. We'll see how the canes do this winter.

Schultz
Semi-erect vigorous productive blackberry. the story behind the plant deserves telling. Bill Schultz of the North American Fruit Explorers, upon visiting an experimental station in WA state, was told of a two-acre test plot of seedling thornless blackberries that were going to be removed. He sampled the whole 2 acres and found one seedling outstanding in the field. He sent a sample of the plant to Edible Landscaping. We've had it at the nursery for years an it has become a favorite of visitors. It has a very long period of ripening and fruits for 6-8 weeks with lots of berries at every picking. Zones 6-8.

Anastasia Wyeberry
Wyeberries are a cross between eastern and western blackberries with red raspberry hybrids and native species. They separate as blackberries and are very similar to Tayberries, although Wyeberries are much more productive and upright here in the Mid-Atlantic states. The dark-red fruit is very flavorful, cohesive, relatively firm and very large. The plants are moderately thorny, vigorous and more cold hardy than Tayberry Zones 6-8.

SYLVAN BLACKBERRY (Rubus sp.)
This blackberry / boysenberry cross is more widely adapted than Marionberry. Better for hot or extreme climates. Tolerates heavy clay soil. Good disease resistance. Productive of early ripening, large, sweet berries. Vigorous thorny canes.

djofnelson

Hi Scott-
Thanks for all the advice!

You really had me thinking about the Marions, but, Raintree says zone: 7-9, so it sounds like it might even be a bit more of a challenge than the Logans. Got any other bramble favorites that youÂd recommend here outside of all my raspberries and blackberries? How about Boysenberries? TheyÂre zone 6-10, so there right on the edge too.

As much as I like my fresh berries, IÂm not sure IÂm ready to start heeling in my plants. IÂve always said that "I like plants that are excited about growing", and my Chesters, and my raspberries certainly fit that category.

Even if the loganberries were only 1/3 as productive as my Chesters, IÂd still be happy to have the variety.

The site I would be giving them I would expect to have sun from 10:30- 3:30 or so, and dappled sun outside of that.

So, in 6b, with a mostly sunny area, with 2 great ChesterÂs already (and of course zillions of raspberries), and not wanting to heel-in, what would you do with the remaining 6 spots? (I made a mistake above, 8 total spots, not 10) I prefer thornless if possible, but will deal with Âem if not. IÂd think Triple Crown for at least 2-3 of the spots?

Oh! Just saw djofnelson replied. Now to go digest that!

Thanks as always,
-Glenn

P.S. Good to hear about gooseberries/currents tolerating lower light. With huge oak trees around, I have a lot of spots like that. My currents seemed to do fine in the front yard sun, but it was too much for my gooseberry, and itÂs one of the only plants IÂve ever killed. (At least I think itÂs dead, weÂll see in the spring)

Hi djofnelson
Thanks for all the info.

IÂd seen the Wyeberries before, but was skeptical of them because 1) I had confused them with the invasive Wineberries. And 2) I hadnÂt seen them at many nurseries. Being in 6b, theyÂre right on the edge of my zone. Have you tried Âem?

ThatÂs good info about the Tayberries turning to mush. IÂd hate to wait for 3 years only to have that be the result.
Interesting about Sylvan, but they didnÂt seem to have the growing zones listed.

About the Schultz IÂve always liked my brambles on the trellises. Maybe itÂs the engineer in me! IÂve always had the theory that without a trellis, the plant puts more energy into standing up, and less into fruiting. But, IÂve never gotten anyone to confirm or deny this. Sounds like Schultz is another possibility.

I know others havenÂt been as fond of Chester, but itÂs done so well for me, I canÂt speak ill of it. ItÂs so much nicer picking those berries than the vicious-thorned ones a the local upick, and I think mine were more productive.

So, based on the info in the earlier posts, what would be your choices for the remaining 6 spots?

Thanks!
-Glenn

Glenn,

I haven't grown Wyeberries, but Edible (z7) is 10 miles from me and they grow them.

I haven't tasted that many other non-wild blackberries other than Sylvan, TC, and Kiowa (I planted most of my blackberries this spring) and all were tasty. As a result, most of what I know is based on postings here, so your educated guess is as good as mine. Personally, I'd plant the 3 TC's, 1 Sylvan, 1 Kiowa, and fill in the rest with other varieties to stagger the harvest. I know that jellyman really likes Doyle thornless blackberries. I've currently got 1 Arapaho, 2 Apache, 10 TC, 6 Kiowa, 6 Schultz, 1 Sylvan, 1 Chester, 3 Navaho, and 1 Marionberry growing, but they haven't fruited yet.

djofnelson

Djofnelson-
IÂm glad you reminded me about Doyle. I was originally posted to get something a little more unique (Tay, Logan, Boyse, etc.) at the end of my trellis. But, I think now, I may change up some of the blackberries too. IÂll at least leave off that 3rd Chester and probably go with a Doyle or two. I like the fact that itÂs more zone hardy (3-10), thornless, and recommended by Jellyman. I had forgotten about it because you donÂt see it at any of the nurseries (EL, BR, Nourse, RT, etc). Is the only place to get it at http://www.fruitsandberries.com/ ? Is it just that the nurseries donÂt want to pay the Royalty? Wow, $20 is a lot for a BR plant. Are they really that much better than Triple Crown?
Wow, 31 blackberries! I wish I had the space!
By ordering from so many sources (3 apple sources), at least 3 bramble sources, IÂm going to get killed ($) on shipping this spring.
Thanks again,
-Glenn

I didn't realize they were that expensive. I think that site has exclusive rights to Doyle. If I remember correctly, the best attribute of Doyle is very high productivity and disease resistance (TC is supposed to taste better fresh). The berries are supposed to be relatively tart and best for processing.

There are benefits to being limited by space. I just keep tilling up new rows ever few months. I'm afraid that I've already planted far too many fruiting plants (and I'm still going).

Never heard of the Wyeberry being around. I have the Tayberry and it is productive, but the fruit is very soft and does not come off that easily.
Are there any Nurseries on the West Coast that offer the Wyeberry?
of all the blackberry hybrids here, I like Kotata overall the best. Large firm fruit, with a flavor much like Marion Berry. It is a thorny bugger though.

Hi All-
I'm wondering if I may have made a minor mistake on one of my choices. For the 24' trellis, I have 5 plants: 2 Doyles, 2 Triple Crown, and 1 Wyeberry. The 4 blackberries are in the ground... the Wyeberry will be here in a month or so.

I like the fact that my blackberries are all tiprooters and I don't really need to worry about containment. My question is this... Is Wyeberry a tip-rooter, or a "spreads by runners like raspberries"? (I didn't see the answer to this on Google... I guess I could call Edible Landscaping). Thanks,
-Glenn