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brown rot

Posted by yopper 3-4 (My Page) on
Sun, Dec 29, 13 at 16:06

What is the best spray for brown rot on cherries?TIA YOPPER


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: brown rot

Monterey Garden Fungi-Fighter. One spray a bit before they start to ripen should solve the problem completely. Its about the only easily found spray thats out there, the rest are hard to find or they don't work nearly as well.

Scott


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RE: brown rot

West Virginia University says Spectracide Immunox is the best product you can use. But it doesn't compare with the Monterey active ingredient (see link). No doubt these two are the very best fungicides.
Immunox is also excellent against scab and rusts.

Here is a link that might be useful: Disease and Insects


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RE: brown rot

Drew, the professional spray schedules do not recommend immunox (myclobutanil) for brown rot on fruits. Propiconazole is the active ingredient in MFF and it gets an excellent in all the brown rot ratings I have seen.

Scott


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RE: brown rot

OK, well I'm just reporting what the University said.
I would agree, I am confusing things a little. MFF looks to be superior from what i could find. So I would use it for sure over immunox. Thanks for chiming back in! The report I cited is probably very old. Especially after reading what Harvestman said

"Cornell only recommends it for blossom blight stage of brown rot- their trials indicate it's not very affective against the fruit rot stage so I've never tried depending on it for that purpose (meaning I'm not speaking from actual experience. When myclobutanyl came out like 20 years ago (at least that's when I noticed it) it was touted as being affective against all stages of BR"

It does have it place though Harvestman said
"there is no product on the market that is better at controlling apple scab and cedar apple rust than myclobutanil"

This post was edited by Drew51 on Tue, Dec 31, 13 at 0:59


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RE: brown rot

This brings to attention something that I've often commented on here- university based info is often flat out wrong- especially products of the extension system geared towards home growers. You will see how the writers of this paper are not professionally connected with the production of stone fruit.

When I started growing fruit their was no internet and quick exchange information systems like this forum. The information supplied by Cornell for home growers was truly appalling. Even now the writers of guides for home growers don't tend to be experienced growers and just try to logically produce information partly based on commercial production.

The head commercial fruit growing guide at Cornell, Mike Fargione, offers this advice for home growers- don't bother- let commercial growers supply your fruit. It's too hard!

That might be sound advice for the average tomato gardener.


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RE: brown rot

Excellent point! I want to give some kudos to Michigan State University. i recently went to look at some old documents,and they have all been pulled off the internet. They say to ask your extension office. They do have home gardener advice, but agree with you it is not by any home expert! Some of it is great, some is bad. Some of the people are very good. It depends which one you talk to.
In my county we have few farms, most advice is geared toward the backyard gardener, and the extension office is decent. So far they have given me sound advice, but not like I use them much with this forum here! Thanks you guys!!

Tomatoes are a lot of fun! I'm looking forward to a big vat of sauce this time next year!

This post was edited by Drew51 on Tue, Dec 31, 13 at 6:28


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RE: brown rot

  • Posted by olpea zone 6 KS (My Page) on
    Tue, Dec 31, 13 at 13:48

"They do have home gardener advice, but agree with you it is not by any home expert!"

And I think this is a shame. Our Extension is moving away from agriculture (because urban sprawl is eating up the farmland in this area).

It's understandable Extension would move focus from an area where the need is not as great, but instead of focusing primarily on gardening and backyard fruit crops, the priority has shifted to ornamentals and beautiful lawns - Blaah.

Nothing against ornamentals or lawn, but why can't some resources be devoted to Extension research plots on home fruit growing? Why is it a nursery like Dave Wilson can do this but Extension can't.

I'm not aware of a single Extension research plot in the U.S. where serious research is being conducted on back yard orchard culture.

Even on a commercial level, Kansas used to have one fruit specialist for the whole state. He left a few years ago and they never replaced him.


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RE: brown rot

What's ironic is Dave Wilson Nursery doesn't even sell to the home owner yet has made backyard culture a priority. And they do have test plots! This is a great example how private industry does it better than anything govrnment. I don't know why we expect government to do better? People are there to get their paycheck and go home. they have no vested interest, so care little about it. I'm sure we have exceptions, but the majority of government workers could care less about anything but their paycheck. It's hard to be fired, if not impossible, so no incentive at all to do your job.
Sorry this is off subject.
Anyway Wilson has an interest to grow the home market and is doing all it an to do so and sell more trees.
I really liked the last video where Tom admited to failure, it was refreshing! Dave Wilson Nurseies rock! I'll buy their plants just to help support such a cool place! Even if qustionable to grow here, but that is under rating them, they sell many trees that grow here. Even grapes, blueberries brambles etc. And many heirloom trees too! Ok, a few not many.


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RE: brown rot

Hi Yopper,

I grow cherries commercially in California. Used to grow Apricots. Brown rot is similar for both. Here in California brown rot in cherries is not a huge issue but it does happen.

Critical time to spray for brown rot is during bloom stage and/or popcorn stage. When and how much really depends on the weather. During really extreme wet periods during bloom, more then one application may be required. Infection typically occurs during this period although you may not see the results until fruit is ripening.

There must be several fungicides available that will work well. We use Rovral or Pristine. Rovral at one time was sold in smaller quantities for home growers but discontinued that. Wouldn't hurt to see if it might be available again or see if the active ingrediant might be available under something else. Rovral has been used for many years and is very effective. The fungicide labels will also tell you when to spray.


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RE: brown rot

  • Posted by olpea zone 6 KS (My Page) on
    Thu, Jan 2, 14 at 0:33

Most labels I've seen recommend spraying at pre-harvest for rot on stone fruit.

Although fruit can become infected before the shuck-off stage and can carry latent infection until fruit ripening, fruit are most susceptible to rot when they start to color.

I'm sure things are quite different in CA where there is little/no rain pre-harvest. In that case it sounds like a spray at bloom to control blossom blight is enough to control it all season.

Here in KS we get more rain. Commercial growers spray at pre-harvest when fruit is most susc.


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RE: brown rot

I have spent much of my career trying to figure out the difference between caring for a large commercial stand of same species fruit trees and trees facing the reduced pest pressure of a relatively small and diverse home orchard.

As Olpea notes, there is no research being done in the context of a home orchard anymore so I often must rely on anecdotal observation. What Olpea says about brown rot follows my experience. I don't have to worry about the blossom blight stage and can keep my applications down to the minimum by using an SI type fungicide about 30 days before fruit ripens. For cherries I have to tighten that up to 15 days- we get rain in June and throughout the growing season. On average, almost once a week.

I can often get away with a single application using this general approach. Commercial growers tend not to have the luxury of whittling down their applications to least possible quantities. You have to risk your crop to get there and you can't require absolutely pristine fruit. The development of pest resistance is also hugely amplified in a commercial, mono-cultural setting.


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RE: brown rot

Olpea,

I agree if you have steady rain through pre-harvest then you must continue to spray. Spraying at bloom stage is also important. Here in Central CA, there isn't at issue with preharvest most years. I have witnessed brown rot at harvest from bloom infection. Often there are no signs until fruit is ripening. With Cherries, if there is alot of pre-harrvest rain, we have much bigger issues like split fruit.

In terms of howm many applications, it depends on conditions. Sometimes we don't spray at all. We had brown rot on apricots one el nino year after several applications where disease pressure was severe


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RE: brown rot

SI's can eliminate infections already present- that's one of the huge advantages- kickback.

Believe me, I have much more experience dealing with brown rot than any CA grower, unless they are right by the coast, perhaps. More often than not you are dealing here with lots of split cherries so once BR starts it moves fast.


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RE: brown rot

Harvestman what are si's ? YOPPER


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RE: brown rot

Sterol inhibiting, but don't ask me what that means. Monterey Fungus Fighter is the brand name SI for homegrowers that works well for brown rot on stone fruit. Not only does it have kick-back, but also doesn't wash off in the rain once it has set.

It is systemic, but not in the sense that it moves throughout the tissue of the plant, but it penetrates the surface cells of leaves and fruits.

Most fungicides function only as protectants and must be already in place when fungus arrives and reapplied after heavy rain and in shorter intervals after deteriation.


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RE: brown rot

  • Posted by olpea zone 6 KS (My Page) on
    Sun, Jan 5, 14 at 12:37

Sterol inhibitors are also sometimes referred to as DMIs (Demethylation inhibitors) which work by inhibiting the production of ergosterol in the fungus.

The larger significance is that many pesticides use a "single" mode of action, like SIs, which frequently involves inhibiting the production or absorption of some enzyme or compound the pest needs for survival. For example, RoundUp works this way.

Because of the single mode of action of the pesticide, it's easier for the pest to find a way around the pesticide (i.e. biosynthesizing a similar enzyme to take the place of the one blocked by the pesticide, etc.). When that happens, the pest has developed resistance to the pesticide.

This is generally of little concern to backyard growers, but just thought I'd offer it as an FYI.


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RE: brown rot

But because I have no idea of the function of ergosterol in fungus the information doesn't connect to anything that helps me wrap my brain around it. Information is generally only useful to me if it helps form the big picture of how something works- how parts interact. Having that picture creates a deeper understanding that sometimes allows for improvisation and creative problem solving.

Thanks for offering, though.


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RE: brown rot

ergosterol is an integral part of the fungal cell membrane. If a chemical binds with ergosterol or stops synthesis, the cell falls apart. This target is used to combat fungi that attack humans too. The chemical is only made by fungi so by blocking it in any manner it does not hurt plant or animal cells. Although some bacteria use it too. With some bacteria it is still unclear if they are plant, fungal or animal such as Mycobacterium which causes TB and leprosy (different species, same genus). Some bacteria have a moving flagellum, but also have chlorophyll.

flagellum - a long, lashlike appendage serving as an organ of locomotion in protozoa, sperm cells, etc.

So it moves like an animal and eats' like a plant, and you thought GMO's were weird! You can't top mother nature!
Mother nature been there, done that, has the t-shirt.
You know everything on this planet is DNA based so it's all the same anyway. Everything having DNA is like we all speak English. One reason why GMO's seem completely natural to me. It's not nothing that hasn't already been done in some way before. Where do you think we got the idea to put BT in plants or roundup resistance in grain? See been there done that statement!

This post was edited by Drew51 on Sun, Jan 5, 14 at 16:51


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RE: brown rot

  • Posted by olpea zone 6 KS (My Page) on
    Sun, Jan 5, 14 at 17:16

"But because I have no idea of the function of ergosterol in fungus the information doesn't connect to anything that helps me wrap my brain around it. Information is generally only useful to me if it helps form the big picture of how something works- how parts interact."

I only mentioned it in passing. As indicated, the application is that single mode pesticides generally inhibit some compound necessary for survival of the pest, thereby allowing more opportunity for resistance.

This would be in contradistinction to a multi site compound like chlorothalonil which affects multiple enzymes and metabolic processes of fungi. That's why chlorothalonil will likely never show reduced potency through resistance, despite the fact of it's widespread use as a fungicide in agriculture and consumer products (like paints, and some pressure treated wood.)

Again backyard culture isn't generally concerned with issues like resistance, but there occasionally appears to be interest on this forum which is why I mentioned it.

Thanks Drew for the explanation on ergosterol.


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RE: brown rot

Thanks to both of you. I am well aware of the single vs. multiple lock aspect of pesticides. I figure it becomes an issue to home growers when they are close to a commercial orchard that contains resistant fungi, which I know you've read me mentioning, Olpea.

The idea that it is much less likely to develop in the home orchard is nothing I've ever heard uttered in Univ. guidance but it has long been my reasoning and seems to follow my experience. I've had Cornell gurus suggest that my relatively low input methods should encourage resistance while not accepting my reasoning on the vastly lower odds of resistance development in a relatively small stand.

No convincing contrary argument was offered, however. Seems like simple math, but I'm no scientist.


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RE: brown rot

Tilt which is the same active ingredient as MFF is twice as much (1 qt. vs 1pt) for about same or less money. Good to use several types of fungicides with different modes of action.I did not know fruit could be infected with brown rot through the blossom. Learn something new here everyday!!!Thanks.


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RE: brown rot

  • Posted by olpea zone 6 KS (My Page) on
    Mon, Jan 6, 14 at 19:34

"Thanks to both of you. I am well aware of the single vs. multiple lock aspect of pesticides. I figure it becomes an issue to home growers when they are close to a commercial orchard that contains resistant fungi, which I know you've read me mentioning, Olpea."

Yes, I knew you were aware of the distinction. Most of my comment was for general consumption of the board.


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RE: brown rot

I know that, Olpea. I didn't mean to suggest otherwise, just offering my two bits for the same consumption and used that comment as a segue.


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