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Sexing Hachiya persimmons

Posted by thecityman none (My Page) on
Mon, Dec 30, 13 at 17:00

I'm sorry for posting a few times recently, but I'm trying to get all my information while I still have time to order and plant my new trees....
I very much want to grow a small number of hachiya persimmons on my property in TN (zone 7a). My limited research tells me that only females produce fruit, but that you need both a male and female to pollinate and produce fruit. (True?). However, none of the on-line nursery sites I have seen make any distinction whatsoever between male/female Hachiya trees. So how do I go about getting one male and one female if that is what I need? Or do I have to just plant a lot of trees and hope I get one of each? Finally, from what I've read it seems that as long as I have a male and female Hachiya, I do not need a different variety of persimmon for pollination the way I would with fruits like apples. TRUE? Is there anything else I need to know before trying to grow hachiya persimmons? Thanks once again.
kevin


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RE: Sexing Hachiya persimmons

  • Posted by fruitnut z7b-8a,4500ft SW TX (My Page) on
    Mon, Dec 30, 13 at 17:07

kevin:

There are no male and female Hachiya. It's self fruitful so buy one and you're good to go.


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RE: Sexing Hachiya persimmons

cityman, the whole male/female persimmon thing is mostly for our native persimmons. However, in most cases, you don't need a male and female for Asian persimmons, as fruitnut noted.


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RE: Sexing Hachiya persimmons

Cityman like everyone said above, thankfully it is very simple--one and any hachiya will do the job. Hachiya and most Asian persimmon varieties here are self-fruitful. Hachiya is an awesome variety, enjoy!


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RE: Sexing Hachiya persimmons

Just look in the crotch of the tree, should be able to determine the sex there.

This post was edited by strudeldog on Mon, Dec 30, 13 at 20:23


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RE: Sexing Hachiya persimmons

WONDERFUL! Now those are answers that even I can understand! Thanks for taking the time to enlighten me. PersianMD2Orchard, I've only tried 2 Asian persimmons, FUYU and Hachiya. Tastes, of course, are highly subjective but for me Hachiyas are about 1000 times more tasty! I didn't like fuyus when they were still crisp at ALL, and when they get soft (to me) they seem like they should be crisp. Hachiyas are, of course, awful (due to astringency) until they are extremely ripe and soft. And even when quite soft, I often get enough astringency to give some of the "pucker" effect, especially near the peel and top. But when they are dead ripe and extremely soft, they are absolutely incredible...among the greatest fruits I've tasted. Up there with figs which, for me, is saying a lot! I'd be interested in hearing any recommendations for other persimmons that you/others think are comparable to hachiya but better????
Finally, even though I'm not a huge fan of the taste of American persimmons, there is a wild persimmon tree in the woods where I like to fish (over a mile from my house) Just to have a different variety of fruit in my orchard, I'm considering air layering off a cutting (or some other method). If I take it from the wild tree which I know for certain produces persimmons every year, will my tree produce also? Since the male/female thing does apply to American persimmons, does that mean I would need a different sex? Thanks.
kevin


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RE: Sexing Hachiya persimmons

I think some nurseries are responsible for some of the confusion about persimmons. I believe Stark Bros until recently recommended buying multiple female Asian persimmons to pollinate each other. Now they describe their Asian persimmons as "self-pollinating," which isn't technically correct either since they produce fruit without pollination, not by self-pollinating.

As for other Asian persimmon recommendations, I haven't tasted very many Asian persimmons myself, but I might consider Saijo for superior cold-hardiness to Hachiya.

To your question about the native persimmon, I've never heard of any success with air layering persimmons or rooting cuttings. Unless someone else can give you (and me) more information, I'd assume there's no hope in that. In any case, every indication I've seen of named varieties from nurseries, as with what members of this forum have described doing for themselves, has always been about grafting. If you haven't done any grafting before, it's easily enough learned. I had pretty good success the first year I tried grafting from a local tree onto some volunteer seedlings on my property, so you might, too. However, that must have been pretty random, because I've had very lower percentage takes with persimmons since then. Persimmons seem to provide lots of random grafting failures, which other trees (pears, for example) don't. It sounds to me like you're interested enough in fruit that you ought to just give it a try. Once you get some minimal supplies each graft will cost you hardly anything besides time, especially if you have a free local source of scion wood.


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RE: Sexing Hachiya persimmons

Thanks, cousinfloyd. If others haven't had much luck with air layering/root cuttings then I darn sure wouldn't, with my limited knowledge. But you are 100% right...with my newfound love of fruit trees, I absolutely can't wait to start trying grafting (and air layering, etc) and since I have a good persimmon a mile from my house, you're right-why not try it! So I will. But one big question....you said you had some luck grafting onto volunteer seedlings.....what kind? I mean, if my chance at getting a new persimmon is to graft onto seedlings, WHAT KIND of seedlings? I'm guessing you mean volunteer persimmon seedlings, but if that is the case why graft onto it at all? If you already have a baby persimmon tree, why not let it mature? Or is it because if you graft from an adult tree you know you're ending up with one that will produce?(since the adult produced). Or are you saying I could graft the known producer persimmon onto a different kind of volunteer tree? As always, your experience and assistance is appreciated.
kevin


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RE: Sexing Hachiya persimmons

K, native persimmons (Diospyros virginiana) are almost always grafted onto other native persimmons. Asian persimmons (D. kaki) are often grafted onto native persimmons as well. Only closely related trees (like native and Asian persimmons) are ever graft compatible. One reason to graft native persimmons onto other native persimmons is because persimmons are dioecious, which means trees can produce either all male or all female flowers (unlike most other fruit trees where cross-pollination might be necessary because of self-incompatibility but where every tree nonetheless has both male and female flower parts.) So if you want fruit a male persimmon tree wouldn't produce any fruit at all. Another reason to graft native on native is that there are all sorts of differences between females. Some females produce more/less fruit, larger/smaller fruit, more/less seedy fruit, ripen earlier/later, lose the astringency more/less completely, are more/less prone to limb breakage, have especially pretty fall leaf color or especially nice form, etc., etc.


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RE: Sexing Hachiya persimmons

  • Posted by bboy USDA 8 Sunset 5 WA (My Page) on
    Wed, Jan 1, 14 at 21:25

Grafted stock of clonal cultivars will all be the same sex, the sex of the original clone. Where sex of each specimen is a grab bag is when you plant seedlings (plants raised from seed) rather than grafts.

The exception is when a cultivar name is used for more than one clone, with some kinds of unisexual plants (like aucuba) sometimes even having clones of differing sex being grown under the single cultivar name. In such cases it is really more than one cultivar being grown under the same name. When it is obvious that multiple different clones have been grown for some time under one cultivar name a different designation may come to be applied, such as the term Cultivar Group that is used by British sources.


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RE: Sexing Hachiya persimmons

BBoy, you're not implying that there are clonally reproduced persimmon root stocks, are you? I haven't (yet) heard of such.


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