This year I am also getting Pen, Hachiya, Yotsumizo, and a few others. The Pen is not looking too exciting, its small and not as sweet as the best ones. I may not have been able to fully ripen them this year, we had an early hard freeze. Hachiya is always good, not as sweet/flavorful as the very best but still good. Yotsumizo is a small drying variety I was hoping would be ridiculously sweet but its just average. I am going to dry them whole following the Japanese tradition.

Scott

How do you pollinate Chocolate? Second yr in a row mine haven't been pollinated. It has plenty, hundreds, of males but doesn't pollinate itself. Eureka, my only other variety, has only had males one yr that I've seen.

K persimmons aren't much more than sugar and texture (and beautiful color) so texture is very important.

However, I too have celebrated the few astringent persimmons I've been able to harvest here- early ripening is a must. I hope some day to crack their code in my too-cold climate- of course, a persimmon climate may be coming to my part ofNY if I live a couple more decades.

I had a Shen from Nick England that was supposed to be non-astringent but its fruit turned out to be astringent even though it looked like a Fuyu. But that sucker liked to fruit. Died on me even though I brought it inside in the winter.

My Saijo hasn't fruited after being here for 20 years. Until 4 years ago I brought it into cool storage for the winters and stopped because it wouldn't fruit. For two years it grew fine outdoors but last winter killed it almost to the graft union.

I left the very vigorous shoots that grew this year, including ones below the graft to try to graft other types on it. I better pile up the dirt in case we have a winter like last.

Tony

I also grow the crunchy kinds, I just don't like them nearly as much as they have relatively little flavor. It sounds like I am in the minority, Izu is another crunchy one.

All astringent persimmons taste fairly similar, but the really sweet ones get this carmelized/cinnamon dimension to the taste that I really like.

Scott

Anyway maybe my season is longer than yours and it makes a difference in flavor. I didn't try the other varieties you list. I did have a so-called Giombo that never fruited so I topworked it, and my King Sun died its first winter.

Scott

Although fuyu, hachiya, and suruga are very sweet, they don't come close to the sweetness in the saijo down here. The saijo are syrupy sweet to me and I don't care for them much, but my wife loves them. Previously she preferred the non-astringent fuyu and suruga.

I grew up eating American persimmons and don't think any of the Kaki can compare to a top notch American. I grow prok and yates. First years fruiting were still in pots and were pretty good. Put in the ground and haven't got a fruit since. The squirrels eat them while still small every year. I have them in my front yard and no dog protection. May put wire around them this year if I don't get in trouble with homeowner's association. They are the slowest growing trees I have ever seen, maybe with exception of pawpaw.

There is a very good wild American about two blocks from me. There are quite a few within bike distance, but this one has excellent, medium size fruits. There are others with good small fruit, and ones with mediocre medium fruit. This one has excellent, medium fruit every year. May try grafting this year, but I haven't had much luck. My only successful graft was with a cherry that died a year later with canker.

I'm not sure why mine are so good. But I only have one year of data and they could have had optimal growing conditions this year.

If I had any room I would like to try out the varieties you are liking. My Chocolate seems to be in a serious decline so maybe I should put something else in its spot. Long term I am going to want a Chocolate back, its been great for me.

Scott

Looking at it this last weekend it looks like it finally may be coming back, there are lots of healthy looking new shoots on it. I'll let it stick around through the coming spring at least - if there are enough female blossoms I will keep it.

Scott

You don't fool around with trees that don't perform I am glad the Chocolate decided to make new branches for you. I hate to see it gets the ax.

Tony

My Chocolate is also weird in bloom habits. Some branches covered with males and all the females clumped up in a couple spots. Not many females total and none pollinated this yr. 500 males vs 20-30 females and none pollinated.

The unpollinated females of Chocolate are very late to mature and poor quality, aren't ripe yet. Pollinated females aren't much better eating and I need a blindfold to eat them because they look rotten. I like the beautiful translucent flesh on some astringents like Eureka.

Scott

I think I pruned off male limbs a yr ago as this is 2nd yr for same condition. It didn't help this yr. I'm not sure a limb all males one yr would be the same next yr. It may be female flowers set where carbs are highest. That might be where the males were yr before.

By NET I mean: a 5 pound bag of 10-5-15 contains net (5lbs * 10%) 1/2 lb nitrogen and (5lbs * 15%) 3/4 lb potash.

To compute dosages to other "size" plantings: in a medium loamy soil, dosage is directly proportional to root volume.

A good source of potash for neutral to alkaline soils is Sul-Po-Mag. Alternately look for a water-soluble fertilizer with NPK ratios of 2:1:3 (e.g., 6-3-9, 16-8-24) or an organic fertilizer with ratios near 4:4:7.

Scott