I would NOT do anything without going through qualified scientists and MD's for something like that!

The disease is real in that people are reporting disturbing and unpleasant symptoms which to some are not fully explained - which is why the Centers for Disease Control is looking into it.

There's no convincing evidence that parasites or any other infectious organisms cause this - lots of theories and "treatments" abound, but nothing solid has turned up.
More here and here.

At this point any herbal remedies should probably be confined to ones that might relieve itching.

You know what's interesting is your problem may just be a certain color light. You just maybe light sensitive. Start keeping a diary of the times it effects you. See what you were doing. Did you just come out of the sun? Get some color plastics and try a different color every day on the same place. If you get a reaction sorry it's genetics. Like people who don't eat enough fruit when young their children have asmatha. Now depending on how you look at it, it maybe a bessing or a curse. You can "feel" colors. Their are Shaman sites on the web that might beable to help. Or look under folk medicine, under Datura as a potace for skin cancer. GSD

I have never heard such a thing and boy, it sounds freaky! Whatever the cause! My heart goes out to you.

Datura is poisonous and I'd be careful about recommending it to anyone.

cacyes,
Morgellons indeed is very real and it sounds like you have it. Please look at http://morgellonsdiseaseawareness.com
You will see extensive photo documentation showing these fibers throughout the bodies systems...in urine, stool, blood, stood and of course the skin.

I'd urge you to stay away from using anything toxic (ammonia). What we know about Morgellons sufferers is that their detox pathways are blocked so if you expose yourself to more toxins, they essentially will remained trapped in the body and could make you worse.

Please read the 'Diet and pH' link on the site and see the new findings on 'Physicians Reference Guide.'
Don't believe anyone that says it's a mental illness. They are not educated.

Good luck.

Here is a link that might be useful: Morgellons Disease Awareness

By the way they are finding a parasite involved from many of those tested by Metametrix Lab. They just don't know what parasite yet...something new. No surprise there. GMOs abound...

Here is what the current findings are:

According to Nancy Guberti, Certified Holistic Nutritionist, nutritional testing is showing an emerging pattern among sufferers:
1. Oxidative stress
2. Biofilm
3. Elevated VMA (vanillymandellic acid)
4. Elevated HVA (homovanillic acid
5. Elevated Hippuric Acid
6. Overgrowth of Bacteria, Fungus/Yeast
7. Non-human parasite taxonomy unknown'

I'd be very wary of spending money on tests from any lab that claims to find a parasite not recognized by microbiologists and physicians - particularly a lab cited by Quackwatch as offering non-standard testing.

There's a lot of money being made in this field, but the big question is the extent to which laboratories that market heavily to patients are performing worthwhile and accurate tests with meaningful clinical results.

Here's a good overview of such testing and how to evaluate laboratory quackery.

I've looked at the "photo gallery" on that Morgellons site, and those are the natural debris found when you look at almost anything under a high-powered scope.

Dust particles
Lint from carpet and clothing
mucus strands
insect hairs
pollen
dried or drying body fluids (scabs are full of fibers and crud)
inflamed hair follicles

etc.

Morgellons Cure � A Scientific Approach
Stages of Life
Cellular � Baculo virus- Weakness UV-B Rays 290-320nm (Sunlight)
Virus and Bacteria � Oxygenated Environment (Magnets Oxygenate The Blood)
Pupae � Weakness � Easily killed by Borax and Anti-Bacterial dishwashing liquid.
Nematodes (worms) � Magnetism of 1,000 to 2,000 gauss kills nematodes
Crawling Insects � Need Oxygen � Glycerine applied all over the body
Small Flying Insects � Hopefully all of the previous precautions have eliminated that possibility.
Yes, In the final stage of life they fly as very small black knats!
Also a wide range of Rife generate frequencies will kill Morgellons at all stages of life.
The most prominent frequency is 2114 HZ.
Eliminating it From The Environment
Insects in the home � Diatomaceous earth on the floor or mothballs used when nobody is present.
Later airing out the house to get rid of the toxic fumes.
Insects in the clothes � Clothes placed in a plastic bag where one mothball is placed and later removed.
Also use Borax in the washing maching to clean them.
Insects in your shoes � Place them in a plastic bag with a mothball. Close the bag.
Inside The Body
It appears that Morgellons may be anaerobic, just like yeast, so a diet that increases alkalinity will increase absorbable oxygen, strengthen immune system, decrease bood sugars, also will add chlorophyl to the diet which is a highly absorbable dye that gets rid of toxic metals
A diet that is grain free, lactose free, and sugar free takes away its food source.
For more useful Information, go to Youtube and look for the video entitled;

Morgellons Cure - The Step-By-Step Survival Guide

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J2hLnpfHss4

Here is a link that might be useful: Morgellons Cure - The Step-By-Step Survival Guide

There is zero likelihood of any disease organism passing through stages that include virus, bacteria, nematode and flying gnats.

And ingesting borax or dishwashing liquid sounds worse than any disease.

The CDC supposedly concluded its investigation into "Morgellons" many months ago. Wonder when we'll see a report?

Since the previous post in this thread in 2011, the results of an exhaustive CDC-Kaiser Permanente study in California on "Morgellons"/unexplained dermopathy have been reported. The skin lesions in people who believe they have this condition turned out to not be not so strange at all:

"Solar elastosis (common changes caused by sun exposure) was the most common histopathologic abnormality (51% of biopsies); skin lesions were most consistent with arthropod bites or chronic excoriations (caused by people scratching their skin). No parasites or mycobacteria were detected. Most materials collected from participants' skin were composed of cellulose, likely of cotton origin."

Conclusions

"This unexplained dermopathy was rare among this population of Northern California residents, but associated with significantly reduced health-related quality of life. No common underlying medical condition or infectious source was identified, similar to more commonly recognized conditions such as delusional infestation."

So the symptoms and distress of patients are quite real - but the cause has nothing to do with pathogens or "chemtrails" concocted by mysterious parties to make people ill (but to which the Nefarious Ones are somehow immune). By insisting that there is a true mystery infection and/or a condition spread by a government conspiracy, activists are discouraging sufferers from getting the medical help that might actually relieve their symptoms.

This post was edited by eric_oh on Sun, May 11, 14 at 20:12

Lyme disease was supposed to be "all in the head" a few years ago, and look how that is turning out. Although there is still some denial, people are landing on SSI in wheelchairs from the side effects of untreated Lyme.

IMO at least some cases of Morgellons may be due to yet another deer parasite, fondly referred to as the "brain worm" in the agricultural veterinarian community. Although the actual taking up of residence in the human brain is currently seen as impossible, imo the smaller nematodes in the first stage may infect human skin and even attack the eyes, and apparently a commensual mite might also exist (not the same organism, just one sharing the environment). I had skin problems for over a year after some adult nematodes (dark brown and thin--they looked like hair) took up residence in a vest I had hanging over a bag of alpaca fur that apparently was infected.

Peel off facial masks can be helpful in breakouts, and consistent use of sulfur containing skin preparations and metrocreams prescribed by a sympathetic dematologist can eventually be helpful; possibly, also treatments for pinworms or other nematodes. Nematodes don't like wormwood preparations, either. Additionally, a strong salt solution allowed to dry on the hair and skin can dessicate the little filiarial buggers.

The tiny, almost invisible filiariae can sometimes be spotted under blue light, as in that used by hunters. If they move independently (and not by draft from breathing, fans, etc) they are probably nematode filiariae and not just dust. People can pick this up by being exposed to deer, moose, sheep, goats, alpacas, or similar animals that have the infestation. The actual brain worm has to be ingested via a snail in the second life cycle, by animals susceptible to that. Deer usually show no harmful effects, but much of the "crazy" behavior attributed to moose could possibly be from the effects of this worm. Alpacas can have motor problems from it.

Belief in having an infestation like this is stressful, and unfortunately stress makes parasitic infections worse. It might be helpful to realize that sometimes people have been given small doses of hookworm to help control some health conditions. Nematodes are not all bad, and they are everwhere; they cannot be completely avoided.

IMO, since humans are not really the preferred host, these infestations will probably go away eventually if common sense, cleanliness, and appropriate health measures are followed. Things causing skin irritatIon and stress just make it worse. Keeping excess oils out of the skin (use noncomedonic skin cleansers and moisturizers) and clean nasal passages seems to help, as some types apparently feed on oils and/or mucus.

Gardeners in deer areas, particularly near swampy or moist areas, should make certain to wash produce carefully to eliminate any small snails, and hunters and farmers should take precautions not to become infested from infested pelts or fur of live or dead animals. This parasite is a good reason not to allow deer into livestock areas, or keep livestock grazing in areas that harbor the snails that can harbor the brainworm stage of the parasite.

There are also likely to be other parasites that can produce Morgellon-like symptoms, so a variety of differing observations does not necessarily invalidate the observations themselves. IMO there are some regional economic reasons to try to ignore such parasites. Additionally, parasitologists tend to see parasitic infection as a sign of overpopulation, and parasites are presently not being treated in the human population in the US with much fervor. The manufacture of a basic treatment for parasites is or soon will be discontinued in the US (I can't remember which one).

If you think you have this condition or a similar one and your dermatologist wants to treat you for "rosacea", let him (or her). The meds used will help most skin conditions like this over time. Have a bit of faith in them--they are not going to ruin their medical reputation for you, but most of them will do their best to treat a condition, even one not satisfactorily labeled yet.

"Lyme disease was supposed to be "all in the head" a few years ago, and look how that is turning out."

Actually, medical understanding of this condition hasn't changed since publication of the CDC study. It is still overwhelmingly characterized as delusional parasitosis.

A recent article in the skin journal Cutis notes that it's important to do a complete medical and psychiatric workup to exclude conditions that could result in a patient's feeling that they are hosting some sort of infestation. This includes ruling out internal medical complaints (including those known to cause itching), drugs that could exacerbate symptoms etc. The possibility of known, treatable skin conditions should also be looked at. In very rare circumstances there might be an actual infection (the authors describe a single case where a poultry mite was brought in by the patient, though it's far from clear whether that was causing her symptoms):

http://www.cutis.com/fileadmin/qhi_archive/ArticlePDF/CT/0900400E1.pdf

"Belief in having an infestation like this is stressful"

That is certainly understandable. There are remedies for stress (including non-drug solutions) that should be part of front-line treatment for the problem.

"Actually, medical understanding of this condition hasn't changed since publication of the CDC study. It is still overwhelmingly characterized as delusional parasitosis."

Maybe in your branch of the woods--possibly you are a city dweller.

Here in South Central Pennsylvania, home of many deer and more hunters, Lyme is a well known and feared condition which many have encountered, and which is treated effectively and in a timely manner (which is essential if it is not to become chronic and incurable) by the physicians that have bothered to inform themselves fully.

IMO there will eventually be big lawsuits regarding "failure to treat" with Lyme, and it behooves the moderators of this Forum to correct anyone on here claiming professional-level medical knowledge that claims it is an imaginary condition.

All disease conditions are subject to ruling out other possibilities, but your statement went quite a bit beyond that.

Sorry, read your post as "Morgellons disease was supposed to be "all in the head" a few years ago, and look how that is turning out."

Lyme disease of course is very real and has been accepted as such by the medical and scientific community for decades. What continues to be rejected is the concept of "chronic Lyme disease" that claims long-term infection undetectable by standard tests is responsible for a range of nonspecific symptoms, and promotes giving people years of antibiotics to treat it.

"A 2007 article in The New England Journal of Medicine, “A Critical Appraisal of ‘Chronic Lyme Disease”, concluded that CLD was a misnomer, that it is only the latest in a series of many labels that have attempted to attribute medically unexplained symptoms to infections, and that antibiotic treatment is not warranted. The CDC agrees that so-called Post-Treatment Lyme Disease Syndrome should not be treated with long-term antibiotics."

"Morgellons" disease and "chronic Lyme disease" as popularized by so-called "Lyme-literate doctors" are comparable, in that neither have been shown to exist.

"Posted by eric_oh 6a (My Page) on Fri, Jul 11, 14 at 13:19
"Lyme disease was supposed to be "all in the head" a few years ago, and look how that is turning out."
Actually, medical understanding of this condition hasn't changed since publication of the CDC study. It is still overwhelmingly characterized as delusional parasitosis."

"Posted by eric_oh 6a (My Page) on Mon, Jul 14, 14 at 17:43
Sorry, read your post as "Morgellons disease was supposed to be "all in the head" a few years ago, and look how that is turning out."
Lyme disease of course is very real and has been accepted as such by the medical and scientific community for decades. What continues to be rejected is the concept of "chronic Lyme disease" that claims long-term infection undetectable by standard tests is responsible for a range of nonspecific symptoms, and promotes giving people years of antibiotics to treat it."

Thank you for your partial self correction, Eric.

Since there is at least one documented case of a person being on SSI in my area due to the after effects of untreated Lyme that led to chronic disability, IMO your secondary thesis is also questionable.

Right now, as you well know, the medical establishment is on a schtick about overuse of antibiotics, so IMO their current stance against long term antibiotic treatment for anything is somewhat questionable.

If they desire consistency, perhaps they should advocate against long term antibiotic use in the case of malaria, TB, or HIV (antivirals).

Possible long-term effects of documented Lyme disease are not in question.

What's dubious in the extreme is the idea of treating people for years with antibiotics when there is no evidence of infection - the worst possible case being when no credible diagnosis of Lyme disease has ever been made, and people are put on powerful drugs because of non-specific aches and pains, anxiety etc.
The same thing can happen when people are convinced by alternative practitioners that they have "Candida overgrowth" and are given antifungal medications without ever having had positive cultures or other proper indication.

The "medical establishment" has taken deserved heat for overuse of antibiotics by some physicians (i.e. in settings where infections are almost certainly viral and the chosen antibiotics will not help), which can lead to significant side effects, and (worse) to antibiotic resistance, so that drugs no longer work when they are most needed.

It doesn't help matters when "Lyme-literate" doctors inflict long-term antibiotics on their patients for nonexistent infections.

Not sure what all this has to do with "Morgellons", a disorder which does not exist in any form.

dismissing another's experience in such a cavalier manner shows not only a lack of compassion but contempt for them. what a sorry excuse for a supposed professional healer. obviously he has no concept of what the hippocratic oath really says or means or he'd never be able to write that hateful message. i'll not throw any more pearls before this swine!

morgellon's is real and there is help for it, hang in there! message me privately if you need more resources for help.

Unfortunately, I think we lost the OP some time ago, which seems to be what repeatedly happens in this Forum. It takes a certain amount of empathy to be truly informative and helpful to others, IMO.

"morgellon's is real and there is help for it"

Encouraging belief in nonexistent organisms and potentially harmful treatments for them is not "help".

"i'll not throw any more pearls before this swine!"

Sweet. But the odds are good you'll be back flinging more insults before long. As far as promises go, your repeated vows to leave what you consider to be an unworthy forum have not materialized.

How about posting some actual evidence supporting the existence of "Morgellons disease", instead of making unfounded claims that do not help the people experiencing these symptoms?

*your repeated references to the Hippocratic Oath make it obvious you don't understand what it entails. It contains admonitions to practice medicine and prescribe for the good of patients. Giving them false information about their condition and prescribing useless and potentially harmful medications for it would be a violation of this Oath.
Incidentally, many graduating physicians nowadays do not take the Hippocratic Oath; there are alternative invocations that (for instance) do not require allegiance to the god Apollo or to swear never to perform an abortion.

Here is a link that might be useful: Morgellons quackery

This post was edited by eric_oh on Wed, Jul 16, 14 at 12:43

Not everything that patients experience is "all in their heads, Eric, and it is stress producing and down-putting to assume this is the case in every situation in which someone fails to agree with you.

Additionally, the aspersions I see you cast on some others in here come pretty close to libel, IMO. Not everyone on here makes the same sweeping claims regarding medical knowledge that you do. Additionally, although people may sometimes not label their observations and experiences in approved scientific fashion, that does not necessarily mean they are not accurately describing experiences that are real for them and which, in that sense, can be used empirically.

People have a right to their opinions and observations, and to post them in here. That is pretty much the traditional process that has been followed for centuries in studying herbs. IMO the group good is not well served by aborting this process.

Unless you have received some sort of special dispensation not apparent to the rest of us, is up to the forum participants, not just you, to sort it all out. It is IMO not necessary to single-handedly bully away that process and make the forum a distasteful place to post in.

In actuality, IMO, your behavior in here makes it easier for sales oriented posters to entice away sufferers from this Forum and its ability to be a sounding board regarding sensible herbal usages.
I therefore see little good in the judgmental stances and unwillingness to hear out other posters that you appear to me to frequently exhibit.

Furthermore, the blocking behaviors I see manifesting themselves through many of your posts seem to stifle the sharing of observations and sharing in general that I and many others would like to experience in this Forum. IMO many of us are here to learn and to share, not proselytize, and we find the input of everyone to be of interest, not just yours.

I personally feel cheated whenever I see you shut down another poster.

"People have a right to their opinions and observations".

Absolutely. And that includes those posters who have beliefs that differ from yours. A reminder: the forum purpose is to discuss medicinal uses of herbs - not to exclusively praise all forms of alternative medicine and attack evidence-based herbalism.

It is nonsensical to talk about "libel" and "blocking" when the simple fact of the matter is you and another poster seem to want all posts to agree with you. You do not run the forum, are not a moderator and are not in a position to tell others to suppress their opinions. If you want to disagree with me and can do so without name-calling and flinging insults, fine.

As noted here before, there have in the past been many evidence-oriented and skeptical posters on this forum. It appears to me that one major reason they don't post here anymore is the rancor that true believers directed at them. That's a loss for the forum.

As for "sales-oriented posters", the best we can do is question obvious attempts to sell us products (either supplements or pharmaceuticals), and let management know about spam.

This post was edited by eric_oh on Thu, Jul 17, 14 at 9:21

"Not sure what all this has to do with "Morgellons", a disorder which does not exist in any form."

Eric, the above is a statement you made just a few posts back, after several other posters had shared their experiences, thoughts, and feelings regarding this condition.

Think about this for a minute--How would you feel if you had been one of those posters, and someone else had then made your statement above?

Would you have felt like continuing with this Forum?

Additionally, aside from the human interaction issue, Morgellons IS a real condition--it has a name. Whether the cause is psychological or caused by organism/s of some sort, by a vitamin B deficiency, or possibly some other physical cause, it is still a condition, and people have the right to discuss it and possible treatments for it in here without being insulted by peremptory statements that sound like judgments.

Since this is an herbal Forum, though, I will ask:

Are there any herbs that can be taken as a pleasant tea to assist a person in communicating in a less judgmental way, or is that an acquired interpersonal skill that can be learned?

Can all learn it, or are only those who care how they make others feel motivated to do so?

Are there those who actually prefer to use their insights and knowledge to make others feel bad?

Is there an herb for this condition?

:o(

While "Morgellons disease" does not exist, I've said here before that distressing symptoms due to other causes are quite real, and that patients deserve a full medical workup to rule out treatable causes of their condition.

That's a much more helpful approach than trying to validate a nonexistent disorder and suggesting that people need potentially toxic antiparasitic drugs to treat it.

Since you bring up herbal teas - are there any that will act to relax posters who cannot discuss subjects calmly and insist on making personal attacks on those with whom they disagree?

Here's one that might be helpful.

Sounds about right--I would really appreciate it if you would try to take some prior to your posts on here; you might find a more appreciative audience for your views.

You might also try the suggested link or a similar one of your own choosing.

A mind is a terrible thing to waste, whether it be yours or that of other posters, and IMO there is a big difference between having the right to say what you want and consistently saying it in a way that shuts down others, particularly when special claims of knowledge have been made.

Regarding knowledgeable posters driven from here that have scientific views, that has not been my observation. What I have seen on here is sincere lay people with a few observations to share or a few concerns to voice being shut down and leaving the threads, never to return to them.

By the way, IMO there is a rather large difference in confronting a behavior that is chilling and harmful to the free flow of ideas here in this Forum, and name calling and personal attacks on another.

People who have been systematically insulted and had their input routinely trivialized and denigrated, rather than used as a springboard for positive discussion, have the right, in a cooperative group, of exploring this problem. It is not a personal attack, it is an exploration of how the life of the group can be improved by providing feedback on how specific behaviors affect posters in general in here.

It is not your thoughts and ideas that are being mentioned, it is the judging manner in which they are expressed, which IMO is an implied form of name calling. It is as if you are putting a "dummy" label on everyone you don't agree with or who, in your eyes, is providing input that is somehow deficient. In many cases their input may be incomplete, and in some cases they might be misled in some respects, but even if outrageous claims are made about an herb, it is interesting to know what those claims are and from what original source those claims emanate, and why, rather than prematurely dismissing them.

IMO this Forum was meant to be a cooperative group, not a little puddle for a big frog to dominate.

Here is a link that might be useful: Mind Tools

...when special claims of knowledge have been made.when special claims of knowledge have been made."

Not at all. Unlike some other posters here, I cite and link to reliable sources of information. I don't agree with the "trust, me, I'm a doctor/herbalist/naturopath" mindset.

"By the way, IMO there is a rather large difference in confronting a behavior that is chilling and harmful to the free flow of ideas here in this Forum, and name calling and personal attacks on another."

So you think it's alright for a poster to call someone a "swine" (as just happened here), because a disagreement somehow entitles them to do so? Interesting.

It's too bad you choose to view differing opinions as somehow "chilling" and offensive. If they bother you that much, feel free to ignore them. Or (as suggested here before), start an e-mail group or find another forum where views you personally find bothersome can be censored.

There is no special privilege for anyone's opinions to stand unquestioned here...yours and mine included.

Some people really do lack the communication skills necessary to put forth their points in a manner that will not find offense in others. Unfortunately, with such role models as FOX news to validate such aggressive and down-putting behaviors, I imagine many are finding it increasingly difficult to see this. This is unfortunate, because in many settings this can be an enemy maker, if not a career killer.

IMO when feedback has been given by numerous posters that something negative is happening, an individual that wishes their input to be appreciated would take heed and do an investigation. Otherwise, one is open to the thought that a high class troll may be in operation.

To defend the other poster who mentioned "cast before swine", that is a common saying used to express the futility of providing certain input to certain types of individual. Whether that is true of you or not only you can determine, but lack of receptivity to the same point made by multiples of posters over multiples of years does suggest a certain imperviousness.

There have been many instances in this forum where posters have used an aggressive and nasty tone in attacking mainstream medicine and supporters of using herbs as part of complementary medicine.

I don't recall you ever admonishing any of these posters for their negativity and "putting down" those of us with differing views.

Your concerns about "tone" appear very one-sided - directed entirely at those whose opinions differ from yours.

Try questioning ideas instead of attacking the poster who holds them, using facts instead of insults.

That is all.

More misinterpretation, twisting, name calling, and libelous insinuations.

There is only one poster on here that routinely crashes into threads and shuts them down.

I would never confront a victim that had been driven to an unskillful attempt at self defense for their lack of skills. I only attempt to provide feedback to those that prey on such people.

Such feedback is only useful to people of good will that do not really enjoy hurting others.

Eric, please stop. You're being rude and annoying.

People with Morgellon's need our empathy, compassion and support, not more stirring up of negativity and marginalization.

Morgellon's is real (as are chemtrails, one of its sources). Many who have it suffer tremendously. It can be as mild as a skin rash to the extreme of affecting the brain and every organ in the body. It is debilitating and horrific.

You will not get the truth from the CDC, AMA, main stream media, and anything else controlled by the "powers that be". Doctors who work closely with major universities are being told to deny the existence of Morgellon's and to label it delusional parasitosis. Several of my friends are doctors and they have confided this in me. This is true. It's not just a theory.

Of course the "powers that be" don't want the truth about Morgellon's to get out. That would open up an ugly can of worms for them. It would expose all kinds of things they want to keep covered up--chemtrails, biological weapons they're using on all of us, bio-metal nano technology, things they're sneaking into our food and pharmaceuticals, mind control systems, and so on.

Don't believe the disinformation agents who want you to think this is all just make-believe. It's real. At first all of this is hard to come to grips with, but we all need to open our eyes and start learning what's REALLY going on in our world.

For those who are interested, here are some websites I've found to be especially informative:

http://www.carnicominstitute.org

http://www.geoengineeringwatch.org

http://educate-yourself.org/cn/silentweaponsquietwarsmay79.shtml

People who believe they have Morgellons do need support - which should include accurate diagnosis and effective treatment for their symptoms. What will not help is encouraging them to reject the caregivers who want to help them, to believe in bizarre conspiracy theories and to use unnecessary drugs and bogus therapies.

I see educate-yourself.org is being touted as a reliable source. This is a website that fulminates against illegal immigrants as being part of an "Illuminati agenda" to create a "one world feudal government", promotes the forged "Protocols of the Elders of Zion" in order to stir up enmity against Jews, provides advice on how to "prevent alien/demonic attacks" and many more examples of weirdness and hate mongering.

The only more repulsive and fact-free site that deals with health issues is whale.to, which probably has its supporters here too.

Fortunately, I think most people interested in herbalism are wise enough to steer well clear of these and similar websites.

This post was edited by eric_oh on Mon, Jul 21, 14 at 23:52

Peace, man

This post was edited by cheryl444 on Tue, Jul 22, 14 at 0:39

This is what happens when people are not heard out--they have to resort to their own theories or those of others who will listen. This is the fruit of desperation.

If a reliable source is one that never has anything wrong posted anywhere, is there any such thing as a truly reliable source? If a man who thinks that the Zionist Jews are alien reptiles, happens to agree with a certain post that supports mainstream medical viewpoints about Morgellons being a mental illness and starts repeating its content, is that previously reliable information unreliable now? Or is a reliable source merely one that you agree with? Is it one the government or large corporations approved? Who made them boss and who audits the findings? Do they ever pay anyone to go onto websites and post in their favor to sway public opinions of them and be obstinate if challenged? If you misspell a word can I take you and your links as unreliable? If you're not a doctor are you unreliable?

I tend to trust medical/health websites and other sources of information that have demonstrated good reporting and accuracy over time. Every article does however have to be taken on its individual merits, and in the case of extraordinary claims, extraordinary evidence should be sought to support them.

If on the other hand a source consistently promotes belief in chemtrails, alien abduction, ethnic hatred etc. and has a reputation for promoting grotesque medical falsehoods, then it would be unwise to accept anything stated on such a site without confirming it from a reliable source. If for example educate-yourself.org* announced tomorrow that the sky was blue, I'd definitely take a look outdoors to make sure.

*the site also advises us on how to "prevent alien/demonic attacks" and provides revelations about "sylphs". This is a good place to get health advice?

Eric, I'm not sure what you're trying to stir up here, but it's not helpful. Throwing chemtrails and alien abduction in the same bucket as ethnic hatred?

By the way, chemtrails are not something one needs to "believe" in. You can see them with your own eyes. Just make a habit of looking at the sky several times a day every day and it's interesting to see what patterns emerge. At least here in Chicago we get all kinds of parallel lines, perpendicular lines, even circles and we can see them as they're being made. On really bad days in the summer the lines blur and form a sort of haze over the entire sky. If you don't like the term "chemtrails", call them something else, say, persistent contrails. They certainly aren't normal plane contrails, nor are they clouds. Something is definitely going on. The big question is what.

Again, Eric, if you're not here to offer truly helpful information to Morgellons sufferers, then go somewhere else where your hatred and negativity is welcome.

I answered a post asking about what constitutes a reliable source. Why you feel that justifies attacking me personally is a mystery.

"Throwing chemtrails and alien abduction in the same bucket as ethnic hatred?"

The website educate-yourself.org is a lurid mix of all of the above and more. It is unfortunately common for hardcore conspiracy theorists to engage in bigotry, usually of the anti-Semitic variety.

Here's a good article debunking the "chemtrail conspiracy".

This post was edited by eric_oh on Sun, Dec 21, 14 at 22:58

Eric said "I tend to trust medical/health websites and other sources of information that have demonstrated good reporting and accuracy over time. Every article does however have to be taken on its individual merits, and in the case of extraordinary claims, extraordinary evidence should be sought to support them."

So where then does that leave room for the input of thousands of years of clinical observations from the great herbal traditions of Ayurveda and Chinese medicine? The field of herbology is so vast and grand that in some ways is defies the linear reductionistic attempts to put it in a box. Sure applying scientific research methodology to herbs is a good thing as far as it goes. Yet given the sheer number of just the relatively known herbs it may be a very long time indeed if ever before we see that happen with significant numbers. Then, how can you ever possibly account for all the variables such as the blending of herbal formulas as well? Herbalism is a healing art as well as a science let's not forget. As I am sure you are aware a natural herb cannot be patented (thankfully) and so there is little incentive to to pour in the research dollars there.

Eric I don't know what motivates you but I am sorry to say that I find your posts to be all to predictably condescending, belittling, and adversarial. As others have alluded here, that does not foster a healing environment. I am confident there are many who would like to contribute here who don't because they conclude the outcome would be a net loss rather than contributing positively to their healing journey and that to me is sad and quite unfortunate.

"The field of herbology is so vast and grand that in some ways is defies the linear reductionistic attempts to put it in a box."

This would be news to the many, many researchers and herbalists that apply those Evil We$tern "reductionist" methods to evaluate herbs and separate the useful ones from those that are not.

"As I am sure you are aware a natural herb cannot be patented (thankfully) and so there is little incentive to to pour in the research dollars there."

There's tons of research that has been done (and is ongoing) on plant-based remedies, which can certainly be patented. Taxol, from the bark of the Pacific yew tree, a highly useful anti-cancer agent is one of countless examples. Check the PubMed journal article database to learn more.

As for posts that supposedly don't foster a "healing journey", knowing the evidence for and against a treatment can only be helpful to people. Staging one-sided personal attacks on posters who disagree with one's viewpoints is not helpful, and is probably the ultimate reason why traffic in this forum is down.

Eric if the history of taxol is any indication then my point is valid regarding trying to patent a natural substance which leads me to believe the rules of the game are restrictive and favor synthetic drugs. The following is an excerpt from a Wikipedia article on taxol which shows even a pharmaceutical company has had numerous headaches with the process:

While it seems clear the NCI had little choice but to seek a commercial partner, there was also controversy about the terms of the deal, eventually leading to a report by the General Accounting Office in 2003, which concluded the NIH had failed to ensure value for money.[52] In related CRADAs with the USDA and Department of the Interior, Bristol-Myers Squibb was given exclusive first refusal on all Federal supplies of Taxus brevifolia. This exclusive contract lead to some criticism for giving BMS a "cancer monopoly".[53] Eighteen months after the CRADA, BMS filed a new drug application (NDA), which was given FDA approval at the very end of 1992. [50] Although there was no patent on the compound, the provisions of the Waxman-Hatch Act gave Bristol-Myers Squibb five years exclusive marketing rights.

In 1990, BMS applied to trademark the name taxol as Taxol(R). This was controversially approved in 1992. At the same time, paclitaxel replaced taxol as the generic (INN) name of the compound. Critics, including the journal Nature, argued the name taxol had been used for more than two decades and in more than 600 scientific articles and suggested the trademark should not have been awarded and the BMS should renounce its rights to it.

Your original point was that "a natural herb cannot be patented (thankfully) and so there is little incentive to to pour in the research dollars there."

Taxol is just one of many drugs that disproves that claim. Whether we should allow drugs to be patented for a limited period to allow their developers to recoup research costs and make profits is another matter entirely.

Here's a sampling of more plant-based drugs that have been the subject of considerable research and (and medical use), contrary to the assertion that 'scientists/drug companies ignore medicinal use of plants because they can't be patented':

did you read my above post? let me excerpt from the end of paragraph 2 for the sake of repetition:

"Although there was no patent on the compound, the provisions of the Waxman-Hatch Act gave Bristol-Myers Squibb five years exclusive marketing rights."

I would think if you're trying to refute my statement you would come out with your best example and in the example you gave the product was not patented. At least as far as the purview of this article delineates.

This webpage lists dozens of patents relating to taxol.

A ton of research money has been poured into studying taxol and thousands of other herbal/plant-derived drugs, despite the (false) contention that no one researches plant remedies because "they can't be patented".

To this day, research continues on aspirin (derived from salicylic acid found in plants), even though applicable patents expired a very long time ago.
Here for example is a list of close to 15,000 journal articles relating to aspirin used for prevention of disease.

Given all this evidence, the claim that herbal/plant drugs are ignored due to inability to patent them is patently ludicrous. It's just a convenient excuse given for why a particular ineffective/unproven herb is not in widespread medical use.

This post was edited by eric_oh on Thu, Jan 8, 15 at 21:29

Rusty blackhaw.. I realize I'm rather late to this discussion.. yet I would just like 2 remind u that some interesting peer reviewed published studies have come out on morgellons since this post.. interesting u might say.. well just remember that u know better than everyone else. And needn't bother yourself w examining evidence w a humble and open mind... some would argue that seems quite arrogant an apraoch.. but we know better.. u just know these thing's and the "evidence" won't change your genius. Let's us know wut 2 think bout those new studies . Thx

I know of no research establishing that "Morgellons disease" is anything but a psychiatric disorder. One set of authors has published a few papers that are mostly speculative about it being linked with spirochetal infection, but it's unclear whether that's a coincidental finding (there are lots of commensal bacteria in humans that don't cause symptoms) and if people without "Morgellons" carry similar bacteria.

Other than that, to what new studies do you refer?

The fact that multiple studies of note have confirming conclusions of 98% of delusional ppl w morgellons have lyme disease, is not considered by u 2 b significant huh? Lyme disease is quite rare 2 b just coincedance... and a coincedance that's repeated multiple times.. n fact it seems there's a multiple systemic bacterial infection of exact same pathogens n 24/25 subjects n recent study at Oklahoma State university.. meaning 24/25 all had exact same 5 bacterial infections including borellia burg. and bartonella, 2 very significant spirochetal inf. Not significant or convincing huh? Yeah most everyone n broad population has lyme and bart i bet. Your right. What about the actual repeated observations and samples of fibrous skin samples all showing exact composition materials .. again.. from multiple studies? Yeah. Just weird outlier foolishness I bet.

https://www.lymedisease.org/new-studies-morgellons/

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5072536

www.omicsonline.org/morgellons-disease-a-chemical-and-light-microscopic-study-2155-9554.100014

Again, I already know the assured fact of this disease being a real physical condition cuz I've had it for over 3 yrs now but time always proves wuts true n the end. Tired of waiting is all.

So, a press release from a "morgellons disease" foundation, an angry quote from an O.S.U pharmacologist who's convinced he has this ailment and has been vainly trying for years to convince reputable scientists of his "evidence", and a publication from a couple of authors funded by the same foundation (plus a dead link)?

Sorry, not at all convincing.

Of course Lyme disease is not at all rare, and the overwhelming majority of people with Lyme (whose infections are eradicated by standard antibiotic regimens) do not present with "Morgellons" symptoms. Again, the presence of borrelial DNA in some patients (if such results are even reliable or capable of replication) does not mean that infection has taken place and is causing symptoms.

An exhaustive CDC investigation should have laid this matter to rest, except believers can't let it go.

It does patients no favors to suggest to them that antibiotics or herbal remedies (often either expensive or capable of causing significant side effects) are the answer to their problems.

https://jezebel.com/real-delusions-of-an-unreal-disease-a-history-of-morge-1696912437