Here's a link to all the available GW threads on apple cider vinegar, and how it cures reflux, ringworm, dandruff, itchy dogs, eye problems etc. (it has to be apple cider vinegar and not ordinary vinegar, mind you).

In one of these threads is a list of all the conditions one website promoting apple cider vinegar feels it will successfully treat, as follows:

ARTHRITIS

ASTHMA

BLOOD LOSS

COLITIS

COUGHS

DIARRHEA

DIZZINESS

EAR DISCHARGE

ECZEMA

EYES (TIRED AND SORE)

FATIGUE

FOOD POISONING

HAIR LOSS

HAYFEVER

HEADACHES

HEARING

HEARTBURN

HEMORRHAGES

HICCOUGHS (HICCUPS)

HIGH BLOOD PRESSURE

INSOMNIA

KIDNEYS AND BLADDER

(page 4)

AILMENTS (M-Z):

MENSTRUATION

MUCOUS DISCHARGES

NAIL PROBLEMS

NERVOUSNESS

NOSE BLEED

NOSE - STUFFY

OBESITY

SHINGLES

SORE THROAT

TEETH

VARICOSE VEINS

WEIGHT GAIN

WEIGHT LOSS

ITCHY SCALP

Migraines are not on the list, but that must have been an oversight. Obviously this product is good for whatever might ail you. And since both weight loss and weight gain are helped by ACV, you're covered no matter what happens.

Part of the reason (at least) you haven't had more migraines is because at your age, you're probably going through (or have gone through) menopause, and migraines traditionally decrease along with your hormones. Not vinegar magic, good science.

ACV detoxifies your system. Some people experience a slight increase in headaches when they first start taking it due to this detoxification process. I did. I used to get them really bad also. But I haven't had one in quite a while now.

While menopause can sometimes be a cause for migraines, her age, or her going through menopause would not account for how her first dose of ACV caused her migraine to go away better than any prescription medication.

I love ACV, I love what it has done for me, and will continue to take it.

If apple cider vinegar causes headaches in some people, it's not because of any "detoxification" process.

No form of vinegar changes body pH or has any effect on toxins. The body's natural processes, mediated largely through the liver and kidneys, eliminate waste products and toxic substances.

I used to have migraines. I haven't had any for decades. During the time I've been headache-free I have not ever used cider vinegar. Coincidence? You be the judge. :)

I just read two books from my book shelf Apple Cder Vinegar Health System by Paul and Patrica Bragg.

He states: I want it understood that cider vinegar will not reduce a person who does not control the intake of food, but when combined with a diet of from 1200 to 1500 calories a day it will help and assist in the reduction of excess weight. The vinegar and honey cocktail should be taken 3 times daily.

Well that makes sense with or without vinegar and honey I think you would lose on 1200 calories a day.

Now regarding honey in the other book The Master Cleanser by Stanley Burroughs he is against use of honey. He states:
Honey must not be used at any time internally. It is deficient in calcium and has many detrimental effects for the human being. According to one authority, honey is "a magical and mystical word in Healthfoodland. It is one of the most overpromoted, overpriced product being sold to gullible health foodists. The great value attributed to honey is delusive...honey is only a little less empty and more dangerous that sugar."

BTW he also promotes two level teaspoons of sea salt in a quart of luke-warm water to be taken first thing in the morning. Now are we to believe everything we read?

There was another warning from Braggs: "Cider vinegar is not a cure for any disease.

It is the richest source of potassium and this mineral is most important to the health of the body.

BTW it was recommended for migranes too, don't get any so didn't underline it.

I have started using AVC for losing few pounds but didn't notice any difference yet but will hopefully as I am on my treadmill every day too for an hour and am watching what I am eating.

The only problem I noticed this bottle of Bragg cider is very dilluted and no "mother" at the bottom.

Bragg's claims about apple cider vinegar being such a great source of potassium appear exaggerated. According to their website, their cider vinegar product has 24 mg of potassium per tablespoon. On the other hand, many nutritious foods (milk, many fruits (i.e. bananas), vegetables and meats contain much more potassium per serving - 300 mg or more. You'd have to down more than a dozen tablespoonsfuls of apple cider vinegar at a sitting to equal the potassium present in one of those foods.

Here is a link that might be useful: Foods rich in potassium

For heaven's sake don't take the salt! Unless you feel that hardened arteries are a good thing. I don't understand the weight loss thing... why can't people just eat right and exercise? why is it so hard? I was on a mega dose of progesterone awhile back, made me gain 50lbs. After I freaked out on that, I got off the medicine, just went back to eating right and getting exercise and my weight went back to normal. It wasn't easy, specially with my illnesses, but I did it. I've had other friends drop 75 to 100lbs, doing it that way too... just by eating right. It's never easy, but nothing of value ever comes easily. People scream at me that America's obesity problem is a 'complicated' thing... but I think that as long as people look for that 'magic pill' they will never become healthy. I mean, like my particular friend who lost 75lbs and has kept it off for 3 years, says she has friends who are diabetic, at 300+lbs who sit down and drink a six pack of Mtn Dew.... when she said something to them, they told her that they'd rather take shots than stop drinking their Mtn Dew. Maybe someone should explain it to me, why this is a 'complicated' problem. I don't want to be a nazi, but I just am unable to see this as a complicated problem. I guess I must be a freak or something, I'd rather be healthy than unhealthy. I've even had friends with AIDS who have told me point blank that they'd rather die than exercise... just a total mystery to me.

Oh I wouldn't take the salt and water either and that book is old perhaps he has changed his mind about it now too.

Hello:

I just started the ACV treatment three days ago. I am taking two tablespoons of ACV, two tablespoons of honey and eight ounces of water twice a day. Gosh, I hope this works for me.

I have been suffering form migraines for 25 years now. I've been taking Imitrex form the time they introduced it as an injection and am now on 100 mg tablets.

They don't work well. There are so many days that are wasted laying in a dark room, no noise, no movement of my head or I will vomit. These migraines are so severe and seem to never ease up.

I can understand why they are referred as "suicide headaches." The pain is so severe and while having an attack it feels like the worst pain on earth and that it will never let up. So sad!

I do have a question.... Is it the ACV that is supposed to be the cure? Would it be just as effective to take four tablespoons all at once instead of breaking it up into two doses and mixing it with water? Any advice would be appreciated.

If you'd like to tell me how the treatment is continuing to work for you that would be of interest to me.

Thanks and good health to all!

~Annette

Migraines are generally said to be a problem suffered by women. Interesting that one man states he suffered migraines.

Each person is different. What works for one person, may not work for another person. I suffered migraines during my teens. I have no idea why I suddenly quit having incapicitating migraines on a daily basis. During the next fifteen years, I suffered a total of five migraine headaches. I haven't had one in more than twenty years.

As to one poster's reference regarding Mountain Dew, that stuff contains a huge quantity of caffeine. People can become addicted to the caffeine in Mountain Dew. Caffeine addicts suffer severe headaches (not migraines), when they cut out caffeine. They also suffer interuption of thought process function because synapses misfire until the brain adjusts to the loss of the caffeine stimulant. Giving up such an addiction is definitely a big challenge.

I've got several of the disorders listed above and took vinegar for years. Not one single thing ever happened because of my vinegar intake, except for the Braggs laughing all the way to the bank.

I wouldn't take 4 teaspoons of vinegar at once - much less risk of stomach upset if it is divided through the day.

Are you taking magnesium and a good B-vitamin? This is one of the cheapest, safest proven preventives for migraines and I would consider and investigate this option if you haven't already.

Red Bull is better for migraines than Mt. Dew or other caffeine beverages. The taurine it contains is an inhibitory neurotransmitter and a number of people on the cluster headache forums drink a can of such beverages at the first sign of a cluster headache and are often able to abort it. Taurine in capsules is much cheaper, and some people have reported that it can markedly reduce activity. I personally would not combine taurine with triptans like Imitrex, or with any calcium channel blocker because taurine itself has calcium channel blocking effects and too much blocking slows the heart excessively.

Triptans are effective in the short term, but many of the people with clusterheadaches report that their cycles become longer when they use this type of medicine regularly. Dr. Goadsby (one of the leading CH specialists) has said that triptans probably do have such paradoxical effect.

Caffeine is similar. In the short run, it can help relieve symptoms of a migraine. But those who regularly drink lots of caffeine are more prone to such headaches.

High flow oxygen can be very effective for knocking out a cluster headache if started for 5-10 minutes at the first symptoms. Some significant others of clusterheads that have migraines have tried oxygen for their migraines and think it is effective. But good luck in getting a prescription - most doctors are not familiar with this use of oxygen. It has to be high flow rate (12 lpm or more) from a non-rebreather mask. The little tubes that you see in people's nose in a hospital are not enough to have a vasoconstrictive effect.

Another option that has been researched for menstrual migraines, but which also helps with cluster headaches and other neurovascular headaches is kudzu root extract. Not the starch that is used for cooking, that has most of the active ingredients washed out. Plain root or root capsule. See link below for more information. Although the Physician's Desk Reference doesn't have many cautionary notes on kudzu, I would not mix it with imitrex or other triptans, or calcium channel blockers. It seems to work on the serotonin-2 receptors. For a good preventive effect, kudzu has to be taken in 3 or 4 regular doses through the day. If you are chronic and skip a dose, expect a return of symptoms.

While Eric and Lucy will be quick to tell you that 'detox diets' are nonsense, I also have one friend who has suffered from cluster headaches for decades who has found that he can consistently break a cycle of the buggers by going on what he calls a detox diet. It is a low calorie diet where he mostly drinks apple juice and a variety of drinks with various fruits and spices. My theory is that this modified fast changes more than a few things that might ultimately tone down whatever it is in his system that causes the headaches. Probably affects levels of ions in the blood, which are often disordered in neurovascular headache.

Here is a link that might be useful: Kudzu for Neurovascular Headache

Migraine is one of the conditions for which all kinds of suggested remedies abound.

Part of the problem, as lorna suggested, is that people with migraines are a diverse lot and their headache triggers vary, as well as response to treatment. A basic important step in controlling migraines is to start a diary detailing for each migraine what dietary/environmental factors are in play - what foods have been consumed, what sleep pattern or stressors were experienced shortly before the migraine began, chemical/household product exposures etc. Then you can begin to eliminate possible causative factors.

The idea of "detoxification" through a special diet is nonsense, but certain foods or additives are well known as migraine triggers, and include red wine, MSG, chocolate, dried fruits, lunchmeats etc. Eliminating such a food once it is recognized as a possible trigger can be very helpful.

There are, as apollog said, several vitamins/supplements, also including CoQ10, which at least in small studies have shown some promise in limiting migraines. One migraine sufferer in my family tried a host of these supplements without effect (I couldn't convince her to try the herb feverfew) before finally finding an effective preventative - a prescription calcium channel blocker, which has cut down her migraines from a dozen or more a month to several.

One last tning - cluster headaches are a different entity from migraine and have a different clinical presentation - so a remedy suggested for them can't be assumed to work on migraines as well.

HA! I have been consuming raw apple cider vinegar, and other vinegars for years, with incredible healthful outcomes! It makes me feel energized almost immediately upon consumption. It takes away headaches, any that I may have. Also has taken away heartburn, multiple times, and has cured me from a variety of ailments! If I take this reguarly, I find that I never seem to get sick, for years in a row! It greatly helps my blood circulation, as well! In fact, I used to get muscle cramping, but not since I started drinking the raw apple cider vinegar! IF, just say IF, it could harm you in any way, then trust me, I would have been in the hospital by now! HAHAHAHA!!!! The truth is, that I "rely" on it, for myphysical, emotional, and psychological well being. I also, without even trying, have been able to stay thin, after all these years. :) I started drinking it when I was in college, after accidentally finding out it cured my hangovers. LOL! Then I started to realize, that was not all that it cured! It also keeps me "regular". :) Meaning, it cured my IBS. It keeps my eyes bright, skin glowing, giving me a healthy youthful glow. I am forty now, and most people think I am 20! I add it to my apple cider, tea, V-8. I drink some "every single day". I could go on and on about it's healthful benefits. :) By the way, when I stop drinking the ACV for a while if I run out, then I start having problems again. I am referring to the organic, RAW ACV,witht he "mother" in it.

Are you sure you haven't let it sit and ferment for a while first? You sound absolutely manic.

LOL! Well like I said, if the vinegar were harmful for you, then I'd be in the hospital by now. I've drank it every day for the past 23 years, and feel fantastic. My fad started out with drinking pickle juice in college (I majored in Nutrition and minored in Psychology), then to sipping red or white wine vinegars in in Nursing School (BSN), but I graduated to the raw organic apple cider vinegar in my 30's. Okay...let's see, I will "try" to be specific for you. I add 2 oz. every morning to my V-8, along with some Bragg's liquid amino's, Frank's hot sauce and minced garlic. At noon, I might add 2 oz. to a tall glass of iced apple cider from a local farmer, or a cup of it hot (in the winter). Then sometimes in the evening as well. I probably drink about 6 ounces a day, but no more than eight, for sure! (And, NO, lol....I don't drink any alcoholic beverages). :) I sip the vinegar alone if I get a sore throat or headache, which is rare. I'm married, with a teenage kid, and am also a Certified Personal Trainer & Certified Sports Nutritionist. So I can't be all that nuts. LOL! I drink it because I LOVE the taste & it makes me feel good, I do NOT drink vinegar for weight loss. Staying thin is just a bonus I guess. ??? I can't protest as a fact that the ACV has anything to do with it though, but I imagine it does. I ran across this site accidentally, and merely added in my opinion.

I brought up the idea to the missus of drinking pickle juice, vinegar, Frank's hot sauce and minced garlic on a daily basis, but have been told in no uncertain terms that if I try it, I can go live in the yard.

LOL,

e.

Migraines and cluster headaches are not identical, but they are closely related types of neurovascular headache. Both of these neurovascular headaches share certain chemical disturbances in the body, although the triggering mechanism seems to be quite distinct and the location of the pain is different. Although there is no guarantee that what works with one will always work with the other, experience has shown this is often the case. For prevention, the calcium channel blockers eric mentioned for migraines are widely prescribed for clusters. For immediate relief, the triptans (Imitrex, etc) are widely prescribed for both.

For feverfew, many migraneurs have reported good preventive results. The active ingredient in feverfew is rather unstable. Ordinary dried feverfew often contains zero parthenolide, the ingredient that has been shown to reduce migraines. Better to grow your own feverfew (it is a chrysanthemum) and eat a leaf each day, or use a product that has been tested and standardized to contain parthenolide. Feverfew may be useful for migraines, but of all the thousands of times it has been tried for cluster headache, I don't know of many people that think it helps.

>> "No form of vinegar changes body pH or has any effect on toxins. The body's natural processes, mediated largely through the liver and kidneys, eliminate waste products and toxic substances."

It's as if you are still rejecting the efficacy of Cinchona bark for treating malaria because the Amazonian Indians haven't discovered the formula for the quinine it contains. Instead, they say that the bark of the Cinchona tree contains the spirit of the God Xohopichulato, which destroys the evil spirit that causes malaria. If you want to rest in your beliefs that there is no Xohopichulato and therefore Cinchona cannot help with malaria, fine. Just don't pretend it is science. It is arrogant ethnocentrism, not scientific empiricism.

Your arguments are based on an arbitrary and artificial definition of the word 'toxin'. You are ignoring the fact that ordinary substances can build up to toxic levels under many conditions - for example, glucose can build up to toxic levels when there is insulin resistance. In such a case, anything that reduces insulin resistance or lowers glucose levels would in fact be a 'detoxification' process.

Likewise, immune hormones like the interferons and interleukins are necessary under certain conditions, but at higher doses (ie when there is infection or chronic inflammation) they often cause side effects that range from unpleasant to lethal. In SARS, H5N1 bird flu, and other killer influenzas, the body's immune system destroys the body. Immune hormones that might sometimes be beneficial are produced at toxic levels. This is quite different from your idea of metabolic toxins that are normally handled by the kidneys and liver.

The short chain fatty acids present in vinegar (acetate, proprionate, butyrate) have been repeatedly shown to lower inflammatory cytokines (which have been implicated as a contributor to migraines). These simple compounds also affect levels of leptin, adiponectin and other compounds that regulate glucose, and there is research implicating this in the pathogenesis of migraines.

You have stooped to pseudoscience by refusing to look at the evidence that vinegar can dramatically change certain chemicals in the body. You seem to take comfort in linguistic tautologies about 'toxins' that have little bearing on the underlying facts of the matter.

Here is a link that might be useful: Glucose, Adiponectin, Immune Hormones and Migraine.

How did we get from migraines and weight loss (the subject of this thread) to bird flu and malaria?

Using a loose enough definition, one could define virtually any disease as due to "toxins", but that's a very simplistic outlook which doesn't help us diagnose or treat illness.

As I mentioned previously, there are lots of things you can do short of taking anti-migraine drugs to prevent or limit headaches. Drinking vinegar hasn't been shown to help. For losing weight, exercise and eating less are proven methods. Drinking vinegar isn't.

Bragg's Apple Cider Vinegar, the ugly one, is about the best. It should be included in everyone diet. I drink it like a shot of "booze" (which I don't drink anymore) ... I roughly drink about "3 fingers" per day.

One other thing to take daily is fresh lemon juice unsweetened. It is in my cancer fighting regime.

Old Indian medicine "rule of thumb" if sweet to the taste sour to the stomach, sour to the taste sweet to the stomach. While you'd think Lemon juice is "acidic" it has the opposition effect when processed by the body.

Two "must drinks" to include in a healthy diet. Both are good to fight cancer IMO.

The above quotes come from this news release.

Here is a link that might be useful: More on adulterated Chinese diet supplements