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Acid Reflux

Posted by ltcollins1949 z9a Rockport,TX (My Page) on
Thu, Apr 28, 05 at 21:23

I've had some major issues in my life in the last month. As a result, I have terrible acid relux. The doctor gave me that "little purple pill". I would like to know what herbs might be available for help. Thanks!


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: Acid Reflux

Here is a blend that works great for my husband, who has terrible GERD.
1 part fennel seeds
1 part fenugreek seeds
1 part flax seeds
1 part spearmint leaves (do NOT substitute peppermint)

1 tsp. per cup of hot water, steep 5 minutes. Strain and enjoy.


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RE: Acid Reflux

I have it all except for the flax seeds. I'll get some today and see how it works. Thanks!


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RE: Acid Reflux

I have also heard that drinking alot of water after a meal helps dilute stomach acids... I don't know, I have my gallbladder out, so I never stop having acid reflux.


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RE: Acid Reflux redux

Am I mistaken in you being a guy? I think that now is a good time to practice relaxation techniques... If you are a guy, I might be talking to deaf ears.... :o).... but really, deep breathing in the yoga way is really good... I use it for my menopausal anger attacks when I am driving! :oD So that some idiot doesn't end up with my truck up his behind... breath deeply....
you suck air in slowly filling the lungs to capacity... then let the air out slowly, not uncomfortably, but the Eastern way is to concentrate on the exhalation.
I know that the Western way is to pop a pill, take an herb, but sometimes the best way is to learn how to deal with the situations that cause the problem....


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RE: Acid Reflux

Heathen, what the heck, you saying us guys are too uptight..why I oughta!!!!!!!

Just kidding:)

Seriously though, Betty's tea does help quite a bit. Some days though nothing will help much. On days like that I try to avoid certain foods, anything acidic, no coffee, soda, nothing fatty, no chocolate (sob!). After a while one learns what sets off the acid.


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RE: Acid Reflux

Dan...Dan...Dan... this has been a real menopausal day... don't you know not to piss off a menopausal woman? :oD We are REALLY homicidal... plus, mix in some Acid reflux... Days like today...boxing seems like a nice gentle sport! :o)


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RE: Acid Reflux

FWIW, my uncle went on the Neanderthin diet hoping to mitigate his rheumatoid arthritis. Didn't help the arthritis much but he said his GERD symptoms disappeared completely--and he wasn't even expecting that. Neanderthin is basically paleolithic. And that is basically: if you can hunt it down with a sharpened stick or gather it and digest it raw, then it's ok, even though we generally cook everything. Which means, no potatoes, no grains, no soy. probably low on dairy, but it's not completely forbidden. As a side benefit, his lipid levels also were lowered considerably.

Paleolithic Diet Page

YMMV, of course.


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RE: Acid Reflux

you may want to watch the flax. this aggravated mine. as a matter of fact, i know it was the flax because i wasn't experiencing reflux yet.


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RE: Acid Reflux

OK, I'm not a man. And yes I used to do Yoga, but in my old age, I tend to garden rather than do Yoga. I know that it would help.

I do appreciate everyone's advise, and I'll try to see what I can do. Thanks!


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My husband read/heard somewhere to take straight apple cider viniger for his acid reflux. It works! I think he takes a tablespoon...


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RE: Acid Reflux

There is a thread started every few months or so on this forum about some supposed wondrous benefit of cider vinegar - for weight loss, arthritis, low libido or whatever. Various snake-oil-type remedies based on cider vinegar have been circulating for decades - none shown to do anything more than drain your wallet of excess cash.

Since cider vinegar (and vinegar in general) is a mild acid, it makes no sense to take it for a condition that involves damage to the esophagus from stomach acid.

Reflux esophagitis is a condition that often comes and goes and varies in severity on its own, depending in part on diet and alcohol intake. So a variety of folk remedies may coincidentally seem to work - but any lessening of symptoms will be related to the natural course of the disease and other factors, not the ineffective remedy.


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RE: Acid Reflux

Hi Eric!

It actually does work, very well. Much better than the meds from the doc, and much better than anything over the counter. It works quickly as well, he begins to feel releif immediatly after taking it. Lol, but I guess my dumb husband doesn't know what works the best to make him feel better.... all us idiots who don't sing the praises of western/allopathic medicine, we're just a trainwreck waiting to happen right! LOL!

And by the way, I never said it cures arthritis, low libido, or causes weight-loss. However, it does kill fungus, and apparently soothes acid stomach toooo ;).

Hmmm Eric.... what is the ideal PH level of the stomach? Where is the PH level during these attacks of heart burn, acid reflux, or acid indigestion? Now what is the PH of apple cider viniger? Hmmmm......


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i have heard that oatstraw tea is good for this problem. try it.


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The symptoms and damage cause by acid reflux are only partly due to the level of acidity in the stomach, but relate also to conditions that encourage more acid to pass into the esophagus and stay there longer.

However, since reducing the stomach's production of acid or neutralizing it once produced are proven to relieve symptoms, it makes no sense to pour more acid down there (in the form of acetic acid in vinegar).

More on how to manage reflux problems (note that the article recommends life style changes and simple over the counter antacids as first-line treatment, before going to drugs in more difficult cases).

Cider vinegar probably traces its revival to 1958, when William Jarvis wrote his book praising it as good for practically anything. As this link shows, its promotion ranks among the most common and persistent health frauds.


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And yet.... it works Eric...

I see you didn't specifically address my questions.


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Please let us know the relevancy of these questions.

Vinegar isn't as acidic as the normal stomach contents, but we are talking about reflux damage to the esophagus, not the stomach. Why would you want to add more acid in this situation? Adding vinegar to an acid-damaged esophagus makes as much sense as trying to douse a gasoline fire by adding kerosene.

Since testimonials are not a reliable way to show that a remedy works, we'd appreciate a link to any clinical study demonstrating that cider vinegar has any medical effect whatsoever.


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RE: Acid Reflux

OK, since posting this question, I have talked to many people about the acid reflux. Yes, I have heard much about the vinegar solution. I immediately questioned the point of putting more "acid" on an already too full of "acid" stomach. The explanation was as follows:

"Sometimes when we think that we have acid reflux, the pain is actually brought on by the lack of acid in the stomach. I was informed that lots of times people have too little acid in their stomach which causes pain and the belief that it is acid reflux (too much acid), when it is too little acid which causes for the food to be digested slowly causing pain. The "vinegar cure" is to help people with the too little acid, in addition to letting one know if they have true acid reflux, because the vinegar causes more pain in those individuals."

OK, that is what I was informed, but the pain is so great with me that I'm afraid to even take the chance with the vinegar solution, but I have talked to people that swear by it. Who knows?


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I can believe the part about vinegar causing more pain in people with an esophagus damaged by stomach acid, but the rest of the explanation (too little stomach acid causing the problem) is false (see the above link).

If taking an antacid (to lower gastric acidity) works to relieve symptoms and taking vinegar worsens them, that should clarify how reflux works.


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RE: Acid Reflux

Sometimes it isn't the amount of acid being produced, but acid isn't staying where it should (the stomach). If the lower esophageal sphincter (the ring of muscle just above the stomach that opens and closes, allowing food to enter the stomach)looses tone, stomach acid can wash back up (reflux) into the esophagus. Occasionally, we all experience it and call it heartburn. However, it can become chronic and severe and the stomach acid can cause cellular changes to the esophagus. Things that might cause the lower esophageal sphincter to loose tone are: fatty foods, alcohol, chocolate, nicotine, calcium channel blockers, diazepam, etc. Peppermint also lowers the tone (which is why I said no substitutions for the spearmint in the tea above). Be sure to see a qualified health care practitioner who can diagnosis your stomach problem and determine if it is mild heartburn, GERD (gastroesophageal reflux disease) or possibly a cardiac problem. Then, they can determine if there is too much acid, whether it is a reflux or something else entirely.


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RE: Acid Reflux

I'd place a bet that hydrochloric acid is just a tiny bit more acidic than vinegar....

The acid in your stomach is so concentrated that if you were to place a drop on a piece of wood, it would eat right through it

http://www.howstuffworks.com/question464.htm


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RE: Acid Reflux

Some good advice from herbalbetty. There are a number of conditions that can mimic reflux and require different (or no) treatment. So if there are persistent symptoms not relieved by dietary/lifestyle changes and antacids, it's time to see a physician.


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RE: Acid Reflux

Yes, I did go see my doctor and like I said above The doctor gave me that "little purple pill". I would like to know what herbs might be available for help. Thanks!.

Well there is no doubt that it is helping, and I am watching my diet. I was just wondering if there were any do's and don't do's that I should take into consideration.

Thanks.


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RE: Acid Reflux

I was having trouble with acid reflux, but only at night. It would crop up usually between midnight and 2 in the morning.

I finally realized that when I ate later at night (especially ice cream or meat) the reflux was almost inevitable.

After a couple of months on the Adkins diet my reflux disappeared, as well as my snoring and 15 unwanted pounds. I suppose the Neanderthin diet mentioned above is similar.

When I suffered from reflux, I always had immediate relief with Tums, Rolaids, or any similar product. Not the herbal remedy you were asking for, but cheap, quick and easy.


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RE: Acid Reflux

Every 4 - 6 months i get this really bad.Recently after having to have penicillin,it got so bad that I constantly felt like i was going to throw up for 5 days,plus i was blowing air really badly every 5 minutes from both ends.(sorry,I hope thats not gross to mention,but its what happened)
This was the worst it had ever been.

I have in the fridge a substance called Kefir.
I was put onto this 2 years ago.
There is a web site where people share this stuff through the mail,though i dont have its address at the moment.

The site below is one example of what can be done with it,including making cheese,but i use it for getting my stomach back into proper condition and stopping the reflux.

Well,after "bringing it back to life" by putting it in cows milk to start its work again,I let it sit for 24 hours to do its stuff to the milk.

After the 24 hours I took it,and as has been the case many times,within 2 hours the reflux was 90% gone and the wind within 12 hours.

But the main relief was how my stomach felt within those 2 hours...it really is amasing stuff...such sweet relief ! !

If you are milk intolerant as i am,dont be alarmed as the Kefir somehow gets rid of that(but not totally,so there is a little mucas,but hardly any),and I can take it without any problems.
But if you are seriously intolerant,see if you can try some milk that has been brewing,and see what reaction you get.With me i tried it for 1 day to see what reaction i would get...but it was nothing.

As i said i only take it when my stomach really starts to play up,or when i feel the stomach grumblings starting,so Im only taking it for 5 - 7 days,so that limits the milk intolerance factor.

http://users.chariot.net.au/%7Edna/kefir_cheese.html


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RE: Acid Reflux

Almost a year ago I had a "silent" reflux that must have done some damage -- I don't think it is excess acid but my esophageal sphincter not working properly -- it was almost constant reflux and then pain in my esophageal spincter and esophagus, and the drugs were helping only minimally.

I still have it, though I am better, and one thing I found helped quite a bit is DGL- deglycyrrhizinated licorice chewable tablets. They taste awful but it was worth it, and you get used to the taste. Normally, licorice contains an ingredient that can lead to blood pressure and water retention problems; DGL has had that ingredient removed, so it is safe. Licorice apparently helps heal mucus membranes and the lining of the the stomach and intestines. It has been studied and prescribed extensively in Europe for ulcers and related issues.


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RE: Acid Reflux

Thanks! Now that you mention it, I remember that licorice is good for stomach ailments.


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RE: Acid Reflux

Just a FYI, my wife gets acid reflux very often, I get it once in a while. We both take acifex, but we recently started taking apple cider pills with supper, works great. Neither one of us have had it since.


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RE: Acid Reflux

  • Posted by Cacye Denver,CO (My Page) on
    Thu, Sep 22, 05 at 21:18

My acid reflux occurred when I was pregnant. It was better when I took a balanced calcium and magnesium suppliment(5 grams calcium to 2.5 grams magnesium).


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RE: Acid Reflux

  • Posted by Lucy 5b NE (My Page) on
    Sat, Sep 24, 05 at 14:29

Just for the record (from long experience including any antacid on the mkt. prescription or not), stop any form of caffeine, any amount. Stop licorice, mint, cider(!), vinegar(!), anything acidic (a lot of fruit juice), pop, cigs, ginger, cinammon. DO invest the Prelief (not prescription) - www.prelief.com - it takes the acid out of food rather than your stomach, therefore NOT stimulating your stomach to produce more (which all the antacids do). And no, I do NOT work for the company, but it has saved my sanity and my appetite.


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RE: Acid Reflux

Lately we have been hearing about using cinnamon to help acid reflux, lower blood pressure, and lower the blood sugar. It really does end acid reflux.
I have it in my tea in the morning...strangely, it doesn't really taste bad without sugar in the tea. It reminds me of that cinnamon flavored gum.
Just now it's late at night and I have just finished a cup of warm white rice with cinnamon, honey, and milk. Lina


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RE: Acid Reflux

"but the pain is so great with me that I'm afraid to even take the chance with the vinegar solution, but I have talked to people that swear by it. Who knows?"

Ive had acid reflux for about 4 years and it started when my doctor put me on some medication.for 4 years Ive had acidity and heartburn in waves all day every day, its set off by coffee, orange juice, eating, bending forward, basically everything and at night Ive had to make sure I dont eat for a few hours before bed or the pain is so unbearable. I drank milk which worked for about 10 mins before the acid came back, so Ive been popping antacids to get to sleep when it's bad. then 2 months ago I had to go on a strict low sat-fat diet and within a few days I noticed my heartburn was getting better. for the last two months I havent taken a single antacid or had my daily waves of heartburn. so definitely check out the diet angle, I cant believe the difference and I wasnt even expecting it. :)


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My doctor has recently disgnosed me w/acid reflux. I'm lucky in that I don't have any of the painful symptoms like heartburn, etc., but I do have an uncontrollable cough that often leads to vomiting. Does anyone else have this? Is this normal?


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I know of a few people that have used the apple cider vinegar stop the acid reflux, but there is a key that has not been talked about and that is that it needs to be
"ORGANIC APPLE CIDER VINEGAR WITH THE MOTHER"

Now this is the way that they have used it..
One shot glass of the organic apple cider vinegar with the mother.
some honey..
about 6oz of water.. all of the above mixed together and then taken.

The wife and I have started this and will know for ourselfs in a few weeks..

Like most, if tried over a 30 day span,, if it works then it works and the drug companies can take a walk..

the cost of the vinegar and honey is not the great.. and if it works? then would it not then be worth it?


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It's interesting how these "cures" evolve.

First, there's vinegar. Not enough by itself, it must be

Cider vinegar. In addition, you need to buy

Organic cider vinegar.

But to really get amazing health benefits, one has to have organic cider vinegar containing The Mother (the "mother" of vinegar is the cloudy slime that forms at the surface of cider as alcohol is converted into vinegar, and is actually composed of dead microorganisms).

This is how a simple, cheap product gets to be sold for $13 or more a quart despite being nothing more than an impure salad dressing ingredient.

More on "amazing" cider vinegar.


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RE: Acid Reflux

Regarding the person who said she got this while pregnant...me too! And I had Never had heartburn ever before that and when my sons were born, not after that...until lately. I am beginning perimenopause - yet another reproductive system change , like pregnancy is....since I am changing (we ALL are changing all time , btw, so we should always be tuning into ourselves and seeing what's differnt for US..this is the best medicine I've ever found :) anyway, since I've been going through "the change" I am truly finding that my body is reacting totally differently than it did before to foods...can't eat pasta at night and am finding that I want to stay away from it quite a bit in general. I used to love pasta and would eat it several times per week...now I really am finding myself going into polenta and rices more. White flour and wheat in general is another problematic food now ..and that never , ever used to be the case! I eat far, far less bread than I ever did before . I am like a totally new person and as long as I go with that flow, I am happy, am eating well and feel good...if I try to be the same old person I was, then ...I get heartburn. (think how this is also kind of esoteric and meaningful in other ways too!)

I also feel like my body is more dehydrated, and that water is an issue when it hadn't been as much so before...and that is *also heartburn territory...I read somewhere once that often chronic heartburn is really a problem of chronic dehydration...


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RE: Acid Reflux

  • Posted by Lucy 5b NE (My Page) on
    Wed, Nov 9, 05 at 4:51

Can someone explain to me just how something as horrifically acidic as cider vinegar can be considered as helping acid reflux? You are all asking for a huge amount of trouble in future, which may not be reversible. As your MD's, or dieticians, and see what they say. Common sense should tell you it's the exact (worst) opposite of what you should be doing. But I'm serious, does anyone have a reasonable (or even scientific) explanation?


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RE: Acid Reflux

As an RN and someone with considerable experience in the field of allopathic and what is called "functional" medical research, I also have much personal experience with the apple cider vinegar and reflux.. I thought you might be interested to hear my story... I suffered for a LONG time with reflux, irritable bowel, and chronic vaginal infections - we're talking years! We couldn't find a reason or a cure - and trust me, I had motility tests, scope tests (endo and colon) - all the bloodwork in the world.. I tried everything alternative and conventional, believe me! Well, the time that I was on the Nexium, Prilosec, Prevacid, or Protonix (yes I tried them all) was when all the conditions and symptoms were at their worst, including the reflux! I was more prone to infections of ALL kinds, (vaginal, colds, flus, chronic tonsillitis), the irritable bowel became unbearable, and the reflux just progressively got worse by the day, especially when we upped the dosage of whatever PPI I was taking. Well, that is when I came in contact with a doctor of "functional medicine" who is involved with cutting edge research at Albany Medical Center in NY. There is a new test out by Great Smokies Lab, called Comprehensive Digestive Stool Analysis, which, to avoid a long explanation, showed that I suffered from a specific type of intestinal dysbiosis of the SMALL intestine - a bacterial infection of the small intestine, the root of which lies in metabolic imbalance of some type. One of the main causes of this particular type of dysbiosis is LACK of stomach acid and weak digestion (or what is called poor intestinal motility). The effects of this also can be everything I was suffering from - greater susceptibility to infection, chronic vaginitis, etc. So I stopped the PPI (and trust me when I tell you, that was horrible, when you stop a proton pump inhibitor like nexium, the reflux will get worse for awhile, called "rebound reflux") and I was treated for the dysbiosis for about a month, after which the reflux persisted and the other problems I had kept trying to come back (although they were better). I tried the apple cider vinegar (on the advise of my physician) and it worked. No more reflux, no more irritable bowel, and I don't even take it anymore!!
- Now to clarify, apple cider vinegar is NOT FOR EVERYONE!! There are certain people who DO suffer from reflux as a result of TOO MUCH stomach acid! In this case, yes, adding more acid is like putting kerosene on a fire! But there ARE people who suffer from reflux due to a LACK of stomach acid, and these people are actually just as common, if not more so, than the other type, and these people benefit remarkably well from the vinegar or hydrochloric acid/enzyme supplementation. But they are coming out with new tests every day that are allowing us to measure digestive and metabolic function and prove that this condition does exist!
-There is also proof that in certain individuals, certain acids turn alkaline in their digestive systems and alkalines turn acid, but in others it is the opposite. So that is another consideration when treating reflux.
However, these tests and conditions are not yet accepted by the average family physician or most of the "mainstream" medical society - you really have to get to a doctor who either practices functional medicine and/or is involved with a research group, major university, etc., so that they have knowledge of new tests and treatments (allopathic and alternatively speaking) and are fairly open-minded.
- A doctor who practices functional medicine, for those of you who are interested, is a REGULAR, allopathic MD or sometimes DO (not a weird homeopathic, herbal, chinese, alternative doc, etc). They treat conditions just like any other physician would EXCEPT that they utilize metabolic tests (as well as other regular tests we're all familiar with) to find out exactly how an individual's specific body works, to find any weaknesses, and then be able to treat an illness after taking into account how that person's metabolism is affecting their condition. They recognize that, say, three people can have a condition like acid reflux and it can be treated three different ways because of the function and weaknesses of each individual. One person may need to suppress stomach acid, another may need to increase it. These tests are new, cutting edge, and highly useful in diagnosis and treatment, and hopefully they will make their way into the average family physician's regime before too long.
- A couple of links that might be interesting regarding functional medicine and these tests - one is www.functionalmedicine.org, which is the institute of functional medicine, the other is www.gsdl.com where you can click on "tests" and learn about the new metabolic profiling they're doing. None of this has a lot of specific information on treatment of acid reflux, but it may give you some insight into the research they're doing on digestive disorders and and prove that they're starting to realize the diagnosis and treatment of them is very individual.
-also another interesting point to think about is that we are pretty much the ONLY country that prescribes a lot of the drugs that we do as first-line treatments for many conditions - other countries (Canada, Europe, particularly Germany, prescribe many alternative and even homeopathic treatments FIRST in their mainstream medical practices - I believe the vinegar or a similar supplement is used in Germany for reflux, although I haven't looked into it extensively so I'm not making that statement with certainty) and these countries typically have a higher overall success rate than we do at treating many different illnesses.
Well, hope this either helped or was at least somewhat interesting.. :)


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RE: Acid Reflux

A few things in response to jjj34's posting:

"there ARE people who suffer from reflux due to a LACK of stomach acid, and these people are actually just as common, if not more so, than the other type, and these people benefit remarkably well from the vinegar or hydrochloric acid/enzyme supplementation. But they are coming out with new tests every day that are allowing us to measure digestive and metabolic function and prove that this condition does exist!:

The statement that reflux symptoms due to lack of stomach acid are as common or more so than the acid type is not backed by scientific evidence. It's possible that in a relatively few people other agents besides acid could damage the esophagus and cause pain (for instance, bile), but there's no evidence at this point that this is anything like a common occurrence, and certainly nothing to show that ingesting a mild acid like vinegar is going to help.
While a healthy person is unlikely to experience problems swallowing a small amount of vinegar on a regular basis (especially if it's diluted), someone who already has esophageal damage (likely cause by acid in the first place) could well by harmed further by taking in more acid.

There seems to be a common misconception that blood chemistry having to do with acid-base balance (pH) is something you can readily change through diet. It doesn't work that way. pH is tightly regulated by the body by complex natural chemical mechanisms, and what you eat or drink is not going to meaningfully change that. Your diet may well make your reflux worse or better through local action on the stomach, whose acid production is affected by certain foods or drugs, and which is why MDs typically promote lifestyle changes such as limiting or eliminating alcohol or caffeine in the diet.

Great Smokies Lab, referred to by jjj34 does not have a good reputation among consumer health advocates.

More here.

The "Institute For Functional Medicine" mentioned by jjj34 is identified by Quackwatch as a division of a corporation that sells supplements, founded by a man named Jeffrey Bland. More information is available here.


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To jjj34

  • Posted by Lucy 5b NE (My Page) on
    Sun, Nov 20, 05 at 7:39

Hi, whatever gave you the idea that Canadians are prescribed alternative meds before traditional ones? We are, if anything, less inclined to do so as our regulatory system is stricter than yours (the U.S.) and very much geared to trad. meds. Certainly we have health food (and Rx) stores, homeopathic doctors, etc., but UNlike Germany, etc., do not use alternatives first, or as a matter of course.


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I've had what I think is acid reflux since the birth of my first child 2 and a half years ago. When it first started, I had a sinking feeling in my chest area. I felt like my heart was skipping beats and actually got an EKG and echo done, all was well. However, idiot doctor never thought it might be my stomach. Then as time passed I started to feel regurge back into my throat and all those symptoms of reflux. My symptoms are pretty consistent with reflux.
From reading on the net, it says, "when the lower esophageal sphincter the valve separating the esophagus and stomachdoes not close properly, allowing acid to back up into the esophagus." My question is, could pregnancy have an effect on this part of my stomach. Is there any research that indicates how pregnancy can contribute to developing reflux? I didn't even have it during my first pregnancy (six months after birth), but my second was hell with the reflux/heartburn. This is only one of many things that happens (as per my experience)after pregnancy and delivering.
So now I'm trying the apple cidar vinegar. I'm nursing, so I'm going to try natural things first and then see if it works. I'd rather try this anyway instead of taking pills forever.
My second question is, how does a high protein/low carb diet help with acid reflux?
THanks, it's pretty nice to hear from others rather than docs throwing pills down your throat.


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RE: Acid Reflux

The LES (sphincter junction) can be affected by pregnancy, especially if you haven't lost any weight you put on during pregnancy. You do need to check with your MD (or another one!) because there are ways to deal with it, but cider vinegar (for an acid problem??!!) is not the way to go. Carbs make sugar and fat in your body and digestion is slowed down, affecting the LES. Do your kids a favor and take their mom to an MD, not an internet chat line.


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Wow, thank goodness I found this site.I have suffered 15+ years with Acid Reflux + IBS. It had become a nightmare not being able to stay on Nexium, etc due to side effects. The pain had been so bad it caused depression. I decided to give ACV a chance because what could I lose. Within an hour I felt much better and 4 days later now my reflux is gone. Yes, GONE! I have never gone a full day without some symptoms in the last 4 years. My IBS has slowly improved also. I feel the best I have in more then 10 years. I also have had my seborrea disappear from my face and reduced dandruff. I agree ACV is not for everyone. My wife tried it for her reflux and it made it worse. I have a feeling my problems were not enough acid being made.

I will post an update in a month as that will be the true test for me.


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I am between medical coverages and really thought I could squeak by (it was only for a month, for crying out loud!), but now I'm wondering if I shouldn't just cave and go see a specialist NOW.

I have been burping for at least the last 3 weeks. Average is 55-60 burps a day, with a couple of days being in the mid to high eighties. I have been keeping a food diary (when, what, etc) and was hoping I could do a bit of prep work prior to seeing a specialist, but I tried the Apple Cider vinegar and honey for the last 3 days and I must have too much acid in my stomach, because my throat has been burning since I drank it (about an hour ago). NO MORE Apple Cider vinegar for me! Although honey by itself doesn't seem to hurt...

I have medical insurance again on the 1st of April. If I eat bland foods and drink a lot of water, does anyone think I will be taking too big of a risk in waiting until April 1st to see a specialist? I can afford to go to a doctor, I am just thrifty by nature and would rather save the money. Could I be causing irreparable harm by waiting? Has anyone else burped that much? No other symptoms (other than the now sore throat). Sorry to ramble...I am getting a bit concerned about this! Oh...10 days of Prilosec and a couple days of Hyoscyamin (generic version of Levsin) have not made a dent, even when I doubled the dosage...any feedback would be appreciated!


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i was wondering if anyone knowa if ibs and acid reflux gets worse during the beginning of menopause? have had both for along time but seems like its getting worse lately. i am 44 years old and just beginning to get menopause symptoms. thanks


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RE: Acid Reflux

Reflux can (and often does) get worse after menopause (I'm a shining example!) so do cut way back on coffee (first!) and anything else acidic.


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RE: Acid Reflux

Hello:
I have been having chest discomfort (sinking chest feeling, hurts sometimes), shortness of breathe, 100% fatigue, throat feels swollen when I eat/drink. I don't smoke, drink or drink anything caffienated, very rarely eat spicy foods. I do take Advil for headaches, aches and pains. Tylenol doesn't seem to work for me. I went to a cardiolgist 6 months ago because I thought I was having a heart attack or heart problems. They ran test - echocardigram and had the angioplasty and everything was tested normal and I felt great after that surgery (which I couldn't understand) and now 6 months later, I have the symptoms back again except now my throat is sore when I eat and drink liquids. I went to see an ENT and he said I have Gastesphogneal Acid Reflux. He said my throat hurts due to tummy acid and the throat is cramping. I hope I didn't wait too long to have this taken care of - I didn't know I had this or could have had this 6 months ago. Actually, I think I could have had this longer except I think the symptoms just got worse. I have been taking tums for the last 2 years when needed. Anyways, the doctor put me on Prilosec 5 days ago. Still feel crappy but he did say it will take a few weeks before I start to feel better again. Sometimes I have no energy/desire to do anything because this makes me feel so crappy and tired - abnormal for me. I take Tums if I eat before I go to bed but I try not to eat 2 - 3 hours before I go to bed. Just wondering if these are normal symptoms with you with acid reflux disease. No fun.


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RE: Acid Reflux

Does Nexium have apple cider vinegar in it? What about Prevacid? It too? Thinking about it, I paid over a hundred dollars a month for these drugs, but they work very well, especially Prevacid, and I could have been chugging apple cider vinegar, the only known acid known to man to cancel out other acids, specifically stomach acid. The drug companies are laughing at us. Taking this forum post another way now, how to duplicate the same drugs using this vinegar? We can all get rich, lock this one out and let's form a think tank.


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RE: Acid Reflux

I have been having acid reflux since 12 years, and I htink only diet can help, dugs have too many side effects. There are so many diets avaliuvle online, some of them made my GERD even worse, but ALKALINE diet is pretty good compared with others.
GERD is not cured, you can just support your problem, so you need to find something taht helps your problem and continue doing it for the rest of your life. But be careful with pills,the long tem of taking them can bring to more serius deseases.


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RE: Acid Reflux

There was a bit on this last night on TV (20/20). It seems that gaining weight changes the position of your stomach somewhat. Left without treating this continual reflux can eventually lead to esophageal cancer.
Lets face it, in US we are an overweight nation, we don't walk or bike, we ride. By losing the 15 or so pounds of weight we can also lose the acid reflux.


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RE: Acid Reflux

sam is right - weight loss along with dietary changes (decreasing or eliminating coffee and alcohol intake) are probably the most effective and safest means for reducing or eliminating acid reflux.

These are the cures THEY don't want you to know about. :)


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RE: Acid Reflux

eric, I think thats a bit simplistic. in my case Ive discovered certain foods set it off, particularly dairy and cheese, so if I eat a sandwhich with cheese in it the reflux comes back for about 3 or 4 days. this makes some sense to me because proteins stimulate acid production but for some reason my stomach goes into a major acidic reaction to it. I posted up above that I had constant acid and reflux for 4 years, from the time I got up in the morning to the time I went to bed at night but since I started figuring out the foods that set it off Ive been great, and I can even enjoy a cup of coffee these days. It seems like there may be a lot of causes to it from reading this thread.

people who dont have it might think acid and reflux is just a bit of heartburn, but it can be really painful at times and you can feel the pain burning right through to your back and up your throat it can be unbearable pain.


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RE: Acid Reflux

Sure, there are a number of causes and triggers for acid reflux.

To be more clear, I should have said that cutting back or eliminating alcohol and coffee and losing weight will be the best ways to go for most people.

Where we run into trouble is thinking there's a magic bullet that'll solve reflux. and make it unnecessary to make lifestyle changes. Even highly effective prescription drugs come with their own set of problems.


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RE: Acid Reflux

"Where we run into trouble is thinking there's a magic bullet that'll solve reflux. and make it unnecessary to make lifestyle changes."

thats true and there's no way in the world I would have tried the vinegar cure with all the acid in my stomach, but I really wish my doctor or someone would have told me that fiddling with my diet could have such a huge impact, instead I was told to keep doing what I was doing like not eating for a few hours before bed (when it's most painful) and taking antacids (except the antacids made me feel like I had glue in my stomach and was going to be sick instead) ;) and I only discovered all of this by accident. I just hope my stomach didnt get too damaged by it all, 4 years is a long time! but Im so grateful to be doing so well now.


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RE: Acid Reflux

I know plain yellow French's mustard helps mine. I learned to use this from The People's Pharmacy folk, the Gradens. I use a teaspoon (level) or if I am out and about I use one of the little packages. I use it for any stomach disturbance and it works wonders. If one package doesn't work within 10 - 20 minutes (usual time it takes) then I use one more little package (or an additional level teaspoon at home). They say that it is not an overload of acid that actually causes the problem but the over-alkaline situation in the stomach so the acid in the mustard actually counteracts the alkaline condition and provides relief.


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RE: Acid Reflux

The idea that over-alkaline conditions in the stomach cause reflux symptoms is not well-documented. So-called "bile reflux" occurs largely in patients who've had stomach or peptic ulcer surgery and occurs along with acid reflux. So eating something acidic to counter symptoms that typically occur in an acidic setting doesn't make much sense.


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Acid reflux with no discomforts?

This page has been informative, thanks.

My doctor gave me a tentative diagnosis of acid reflux this week. But I'm not sure it is correct -- Can anyone shine light of experience on the following?

For the recent 8-10 weeks at work, and on a more and more regular basis of late, I have been clearing my throat -- for exactly 30 minutes after eating -- due to a tickle or a feeling that "something very tiny" is sitting there in the back of throat. The doctor diagnosed the cause as acid reflux.

I have never experience heartburn of any kind (at any time of day) or chest tightness or voice (hoarseness, etc.) problems.

But this week I do clearly remember that for the past year I have experienced very frequent uprising of air and belching after and during eating, but it has been so painless and a cause of absolutely no discomfort whatsoever that it never really came on my radar screen.

I always considered that this meal-related gas (burping) was simply due to getting older (I'm 52, non-smoker, almost vegetarian, drink a coffee in the morning and drink about 8 beers per week).

An additional twist or factor of evidence in the story:

A strange experience was in March when I had my first standard colonoscopy.
From about 2 days after the procedure until about 6 days after it, I experienced the most extraordinary and constant belching that one could consider as normally possible.

And when I attended a swing dance (vigorous movement activity) at a point in time 3.5 days after the colonoscopy, the aerated belching flow coming up was extraordinarily constant and completely prodigious. No pain or discomfort, just completely prodigious! The more movement, the more belching.

My first conclusion was that the colonoscopist had actually injured my internal system for such a strange change to happen in my system. In colonscopy he removed one polyp and discovered diverticulitis from which I don't seem to have any symptoms. My symptoms above don't seem to be related to irritable bowel syndrome or diverticulitis.

But deduction would seem to indicate that the "sparking" of prodigious gas and belching by a colonscopy must imply something other than -- or something additional to -- stomach/esophagus-related acid reflux. Maybe the belching was due to stomach or intestinal enzyme imbalances arising from the complete system-clean-out of the laxative flush before the procedure? Grasping at straws...

I just don't find on the net that belching is a major sign of acid reflux. Yes, it's an indictating factor but I don't seem to have any of the other major indicators.

Can one go an entire year with increased belching from eating and still have acid reflux as the cause but without heartburn, larynx involvement, etc.? The "throat tickle" after eating does sound like reflux, though.

Any insights on this?


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RE: Acid Reflux

You have gas, and should be checking into what's causing it - often a dairy food problem (can you cut out all milk, cheese, yogurt, etc. for a couple of wks to test that?), and/or fiber in general ... beans, corn, etc, or a gluten allergy (quite common). But you need to check with your MD about it, and not go randomly 'grasping at straws'.


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RE: Acid Reflux

Laxatives such as those used for colonoscopy bowel prep won't cause "enzyme imbalances" because they don't significantly affect the lining cells of the gastrointestinal tract. Whatever native flora (bacteria) of the gut are lost via "clean-out" are restored quickly with normal diet.

"And when I attended a swing dance (vigorous movement activity) at a point in time 3.5 days after the colonoscopy, the aerated belching flow coming up was extraordinarily constant and completely prodigious. No pain or discomfort, just completely prodigious! The more movement, the more belching."

Not to be unsympathetic (and I hope your problem resolves soon), but this sounds like it was a memorable event. Just be grateful the gas headed north instead of south. ;)


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RE: Acid Reflux

I've been tracking this post for a long while, and I've finally decided to register and add my input.

After drinking heavily one night (my first hard hangover), I noticed a few unsettling changes about me. I began coughing, which led to throwing up. I developed some kind of lactose intolerance. I passed gas ten times more than I ever have in my life. Clearly, something went amiss in my body. And clearly, a good number of those things are typical of GERD sufferers.

Of course, I cannot, nor do I assume, that there is a connection between my first hangover and my getting GERD. It could have been coincidental. But I will reference that as the "starting point" of the turn into one of the worst eras of my young life.

I began reading up on everything I could to change things up. I was looking for the proverbial "magic bullet" that was mentioned in this thread. Nothing I found at first led me to what I wanted. All I read was "lifestyle change this, diet change that, swallow a PPI along with a whiffle ball bat". Mind you, I don't exactly eat poorly nor abuse what some believe are "trigger foods" (coffee, nightside plants such as tomatoes, etc.). Also, the prospect of being dependant on a pill for the rest of my life didn't sound too inviting. Why should I take pills for the rest of my life when I'd otherwise be healthy? Much like the men and women who live to be 80+, only at the expense of consuming unbelieveable amounts of pills. Daily. At high expense.

I did find the magic bullet though. The infamous apple cider vinegar cure (ACV), better known to the swear-by-science group as a well respected member of the "snake oil" cures. Let me say that, despite my lack of reference to respected documentation regarding GERD and ACV as a cure for it, I can testify to the invaluable help that ACV has been in my fight against GERD. It has worked for me.

My GERD was at its peak point before I started taking ACV. I would eat at a restaurant, stand up, cough because of a mysterious tingle at the back of my throat, and run outside immediately to throw up. Sound familiar? This is typical of the "vomit" side of GERD sufferers (as opposed to the "heartburn" side; both occur to GERD sufferers but one more than the other I've found). The only relief I had was to sit for a while and let my stomach rest. If I was lucky, I'd get a few burps in. That only reduced the chances of me throwing up from 9/10 to 8/10. Of course, those figures are abstract in good humor.

So, I did what most people do. I saw the doc, they gave me a PPI (Aciphex), and called it a day. It hardly worked. And like I said, the thought of the beginning of my dependancy on drugs was distressing. No thank you. And I wasn't about to wait out my stomach and burp my life away, just so I didn't have to throw up. Nope.

After stressing out, asking others, and reading up on the subject, I finally found this post for the first time, and located me a bottle of apple cider vinegar at a local Walmart. Took a tablespoon, undiluted. It tasted as bad as my vomit, and I'd venture to say that the only thing that would taste worse than that was my vomit mixed in with 3-day old cat poop and then covered in a boiled cabbage. But lo' and behold, I did not suffer the rest of that day, and only had one minor instance the day after. And I didn't take any the day after!

A week later, I diluted it in a water bottle. Drinking it was the hardest, worst 3 minutes of my life. But, I was spared that entire week with minor occurances during the last 2-3 days, which then I proceeded to have one of the best weeks of my life. Magic bullet? Nah, a miracle. Hallelujah.

And then it occured to me.. What about the theory that ADDING an acidic substance (ACV) to an already-acidic environment (stomach) would actually aggreviate the condition (GERD)? It didn't make sense at all... until someone mentioned that GERD can occur from the LACK of acid! And then it all clicked.

Food in my stomach must not have been digesting as quickly as it used to. Because it was stagnating, it was causing all my "gaseousness". Before that damned hangover, I couldn't even burp on PURPOSE, and pretty much only burped after chugging a Coke in less than 10 seconds. And here I am, a gas factory at full capacity. What the f happened to me, I'll never know. But I know that I won't be trying a 2nd hangover.. next time I might be dealt blindness and leprosy!

Now for my personal "explanation". When I burped, I noticed that it gave me a sense of relief, and actually relieved me from throwing up if I did it enough. What if the stagnation of food, coupled with the too-slow digestion process, generated enough gas to bloat my stomach, in which eventually enough pressure built up to compel the release of my stomach contents through the esophageal sphincter? I'm no doctor, but it made sense. More sense than any doctor's explanations could offer me, because that Aciphex was about as effective in treating my GERD as a glass of water.

The addition of the acid may be enough to expedite/augment the digestion process, thereby allowing the food to be removed from the stomach quicker, which avoids the build-up of gas and eliminates the potential to reflux the contents of the stomach.

As for the guys who scanned this post, looking for any scientific/medical value, I say this. There are nay-sayers in every crowd, simply because our life experiences are different. Much like how an agnostic/atheist person is more likely to be found sitting comfortably on his microfiber sofa in his home, sipping on a freshly-made mocchiato, enjoying the 9 o'clock news, which headlines a major mortar attack on Balad during Ramadan. Without opening religious discussion, I can say that people who are deployed into harms way NEED God, and therefore BELIEVE in God.

Just like I NEED a cure, and therefore I BELIEVE ACV works. And it has. Much like how God, some would argue, has delivered people from Iraq, in uniform, and not in a casket.

That's my only response as to why I feel I don't need medical field-related credentials nor scientific explanations to back my belief in the ability of ACV to cure, if only even temporarily, the effects of GERD. I have tried it, it has worked for me, and I am now happier because of it.

I would rather swallow a teaspoon of ACV, than hurl a pound of food. I spent $3 on a good amount of it, I don't have to see a doctor indefinitely for a check-up, I won't have to see a pharmacist to fill the 45th anniversary of my aciphex prescription, and I don't have to embarass myself or my girlfriend by pausing on the sidewalk to hurl sushi I ate not five minutes ago.

To the nay-sayers, I also say that a lot of the credentials you require for a respectable argument are MOOT POINTS to those seeking alternative medicine. A lot of these guys' premise to their beliefs regards conspiracies in the government, a belief that ailments should be treated "as a whole" vs "common cause and symptoms only", and so on. And clearly, PPIs and other related acid suppressants don't work for everyone. I'd say that since this is the case, the GERD playing field is open to anything that works.

Good luck GERD sufferers, and let your experiences be your guide in finding a cure. If Nexium works for you, then by all means. But if you're a little more ambitious than the rest and believe that there is more to curing GERD than popping a Prilosec, go for gold and ignore the tools who wave their medical journals around like it's the bible. They're usually just as ignorant as the TRUE snake oil crowd. Yes, I acknowledge that there really is such a thing as a "snake oil cure". ACV isn't one of them!

As a closing note, I have no affiliations with any businesses. I'm just a poor Airman in the Air Force who wears a flak jacket and kevlar helmet, and prays that he doesn't get sniped in his Humvee while driving the perimeter of Balad Air Base, Iraq.

I only wish I brought some ACV with me. ACV isn't exactly of demand at the exchange here!


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RE: Acid Reflux

So you tried it and it worked for you. Others (including posters on this forum) tried it and it didn't work, and/or made them sick. So which type of personal testimonial should we believe?

Or would it be better to look at large studies under controlled conditions where results are much more trustworthy, and all the defects of testimonials are avoided?

From this article:

"We all tend to believe what others tell us about personal experiences. But separating cause and effect from coincidence can be difficult. If people tell you that product X has cured their cancer, arthritis, or whatever, be skeptical. They may not actually have had the condition. If they did, their recovery most likely would have occurred without the help of product X. Most single episodes of disease end with just the passage of time, and most chronic ailments have symptom-free periods. Establishing medical truths requires careful and repeated investigation -- with well-designed experiments, not reports of coincidences misperceived as cause-and-effect. That's why testimonial evidence is forbidden in scientific articles, is usually inadmissible in court, and is not used to evaluate whether or not drugs should be legally marketable. (Imagine what would happen if the FDA decided that clinical trials were too expensive and therefore drug approval would be based on testimonial letters or interviews with a few patients.)"

Hope you come back home safely after your tour of duty, nightwinddrifter.


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RE: Acid Reflux

Others, and I'm referring to the same group as you, have tried ACV and it has worked for them. The type of personal testimonial you should believe is ALL of them, both in favor of and against ACV. You should also believe that results typically aren't typical (pun intended) but are worth trying. In other words, if it works for some, it MAY work for you. Hell, isn't the blanket "it may work for you" line used by doctors when they wave around their PPIs and antacids? They know it won't work for everyone! Strangely enough, it's usually their first prescribed treatment. Anyway, you shouldn't discredit something that some of us can vouch for!

A certifiable degree, a citation to a respected journal or study, holds little, if any, credibility with me. This is because the medicine community is strangely volatile. One study is disputed by another, but supported by yet another, and so on and so forth. The quest for knowledge doesn't involve participating in high-level clinical trials. So you got together with some major medical think-tanks and pharmaceutical company know-hows, woohoo. IRRELEVANT! to MY HEALTH! Knowledge, especially for a field that is very big and ever-changing, should value personal experience! Stop institutionalizing/industrializing medicine and make it "open source"! (so to speak!) ACV works!

And looking at the cited example of a large study under controlled conditions where results are more "trustworthy" is a little less inviting than a personal, "I've been there, done that MYSELF" testimony. For all we know, those studies weren't conducted by independant third parties. For all we know, the companies conducting the study probably have external interests. But at least we know that if I said, "IT WORKED FOR ME", then you can say, "it worked for him!" And, it may even work for you. Because you may be able to identify with my symptoms. Bet'cha can't identify with 200 study patients taken from half a world away in a study conducted 2 years ago, whose results are probably skewed in favor of a positive outcome.

Medicine isn't a science, but more an art. My point? EVERYONE, not just the "masters", can play. If you prefer abstract art (in this analogy, your "studies"), good for you. But I was drawing a more coherent picture when I was 10, and even still today I reckon I would enjoy my artwork much more. Maybe I like it more because I did it? Maybe I like it more because I can relate to it better? Bias you say? Doesn't matter; it worked for me. Everyone can play!

Allow me to disect your article;

"We all tend to believe what others tell us about personal experiences. But separating cause and effect from coincidence can be difficult. If people tell you that product X has cured their cancer, arthritis, or whatever, be skeptical. They may not actually have had the condition. If they did, their recovery most likely would have occurred without the help of product X."

Actually, the public tends to believe the medical studies more than anything. If I told you that, assuming there was no air, a car and a feather falls at the same rate of speed in terminal velocity, you may not believe me. Probably because I sound like an alt. medicine fanatic, with no amount of general medicine knowledge, and is in the military and not at graduate school. But if you learned that in physics, of course you would believe the fact. Someone with a BA/Masters told you that!

And of course you should be skeptical, of EVERYTHING! By no means am I saying go in blind, or to NOT refute a personal experience. I welcome your arguments, although I do prefer any experience you can directly relate to, over anything you can quote. I'll get to more on that in a second.

"Most single episodes of disease end with just the passage of time, and most chronic ailments have symptom-free periods. Establishing medical truths requires careful and repeated investigation -- with well-designed experiments, not reports of coincidences misperceived as cause-and-effect. That's why testimonial evidence is forbidden in scientific articles, is usually inadmissible in court, and is not used to evaluate whether or not drugs should be legally marketable."

You honestly believe that a "medical truth" can be established? That is somewhat naive, please don't take offense. These "medical truths", I'm sure, are amended, replaced, and revoked all the time. I honestly wish I could give you some examples, unfortunately that isn't my area of expertise. I am skeptical, as you can tell. Why? The same "truths" you refer to, have only aggravated by condition. Maybe I have another condition, very similar to GERD? Sure. But a Master Sergeant independant medical technician (IDMT) with over 20 years functional experience came up with the same conclusion that someone with a PhD in a civilian clinic did: I have GERD and I should take an antacid/PPI. Woohoo. How about this plot-thickening possibility: I -DO- have GERD, but PPIs and antacids aren't exactly curing the cause?!

(Imagine what would happen if the FDA decided that clinical trials were too expensive and therefore drug approval would be based on testimonial letters or interviews with a few patients.)"

Some would say that the aforementioned fictional scenario is EXACTLY how the FDA approves drugs. The FDA has approved some funky drugs, there's no denying that. Heck, some of these drugs have more potential side effects than the amount ingredients listed on a bag of potato chips. ANAL SEEPAGE? Nah, I think I'll stick to insomnia. (joke!)

But back on topic, the general public, I believe, isn't given access to the same documents and trials that the FDA refers to when approving a drug. We're on the receiving end of things. "In a private clinical trial, 100 women with breast cancer were administered a prototype drug that could cure them of it. Of those 100 women, 89 were cured. The control subjects (another 100) were given a placebo, and all 100 still had cancer." How did each of these patients respond to their treatment? In what other studies were the involved medicine(s) tried? Does this study's finds correlate to another study involving a less potent medicine intended to do the SAME EXACT THING? Here's the simple truth: the public is lazy, the FDA can easily exploit that, and some would argue that they already do. Hence my skepticism. And hence why the public is willing to believe the good old FDA.

The FDA is also unusually strict on "alternative cures". While I do understand the risks involved if these alternative cures were unregulated, why is it that they should be labeled "not intended to treat X, Y, or Z", yet a drug with well-known and adverse side-effects, gets away WITHOUT that label? Why are most ketchups not allowed to list lycopene in its ingredients list, while Heinz (one of the biggest ketchup manufacturers) does so, seemingly exclusively? There has to be big bucks being thrown around somewhere in here. Whether you believe me or not, and whether you can provide evidence against these possibilities or not.. at least my skepticism is reasonably justified.

Thank you for your hope! I hope I return safely too, as well as the countless Marines and Soldiers that were here before me, and will remain here after. God Bless America!


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RE: Acid Reflux

You're the #1 reason people should just listen to their M.D.'s and not everyone out there with admitted ignorance of science and medicine!


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RE: Acid Reflux

You're the #1 reason people should just listen to their M.D.'s and not everyone out there with admitted ignorance of science and medicine!

You are the #1 reason why people simply listen to their M.D.s. From this simple post I can derive a few things:

1. You have no idea what we're/you're talking about. "Everyone out there", yeah, listen to them. But good grief I didn't ask you to take their words like its the gospel. You're a poster child for the fact that common sense IS NOT COMMON.

2. You're antagonizing and insulting me as a result of your lack of awareness.

3. You don't value the truth for what it's worth. Yes, I admitted, without being questioned first, that I'm not in-the-know when it comes to conventional science and medicine. Did I ever steer anyone on this board wrong? In my post, did I not state that my lack of medical knowledge regarding GERD and its standard treatment should be the very reason why I might deserve some sort of credibility based on my personal experience with ACV? Furthermore, why not graciously accept the truth that I've provided. I did not CLAIM to know anything about science and medicine at all. Instead, you label it ignorance and make me look like I'm the enemy of all medicine.

4. Nothing in your post is truly relevent to the discussion at hand, be it answering any one of my arguments, supporting Eric's, or most importantly, addressing ACV and/or GERD. Your response is riddled with ignorance. You may say that mine are as well, but at least I can appeal to common sense to stay relevant and stay civil. Get on topic, or get out of here please.

Anyway, to clear up something... truth is, I believe that medicine has done a lot for people. And MY belief is, that medicine isn't always done in the best interests FOR people as of late. As is the case of PPIs vs ACV. PPIs aren't intended to be taken beyond 3-4 months consecutively, yet doctors recommend essentially "life time plans" ALL THE TIME. PPIs, as some of you may not know from context, inhibit the production of stomach acid. If an alkaline condition truly is the cause of some types of GERD, the LACK of MORE stomach acid will aggravate the condition. Assuming this is the case, how would ACV -not- work?

The only end-all to this possibility would be to prove whether or not GERD(-like) conditions can surface due to alkaline conditions in the stomach.


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RE: Acid Reflux

nightwinddrifter certainly has good common sense and excellent communication skills. Thanks for writing. (Thanks for serving, as well.)

I, too, have been down the same path as so many others. The different levels of Rx. Ranitidine helped for a while (I think) then the diarrhea problems started, then Nexium, and more of the same. And that was attributed to side effects, altho test for h pylori etc all were done. manometry. Barium swallow. etc. etc. Been thru the scopes (endo and colon) etc. When the doctors couldn;t figure out anything else, and after 2 GI specialists, the conclusion was Nissen fundoplication. Not one doctor ever asked me to keep a food diary.

The reflux burn to the area around my larynx is a major problem for me, as a singer.

Have tried some other explorations, while postponing the surgery that was a last resort because no diagnosis really fit. Am trying some NAET and acupuncture. Any ACV users get any help from this?


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RE: Acid Reflux Try Wheat Free Diet Too

Hello,
Vinegar does work for me, and it doesn't have to be Apple Cider vinegar. Any works, and it works right away and so much faster than any of the pills the doctor gives me.

I've been told that the reason it works is that the problem with our stomachs is that we don't have enough acid in them and that vinegar is giving our stomachs what we actually need, and that is why it works.

I went on Atkins once, lost 30 pounds, and my acid reflux totally disappeared. It returned when I added pasta or bread back to my diet. It was the wheat.

I came to realize that the slightest amount of wheat in food wreaks havoc on my stomach.

What does the American diet have in it more than anything else? Wheat!

Wheat is in nearly any food that isn't raw. It's in fried chicken. It's in hot dogs. It's in Jo Jos potatoes. It's in macaroni and cheese. It's in Spaghetti and pizza. And pie and even some colas. It's in so many food items that you could never count them all.

If I eat the slightest amount of wheat, I have heartburn for days, and IBS.

My bronchial tubes stay sore for days and my asthma kicks in, and my heart rate goes up, and it's all because of this horrible reaction to wheat.

I truly think that many people with Acid Reflux and IBS have this problem, but they many never discover it unless they totally remove even the slightest amount of wheat from their diet.

One can develop allergies to any food if exposed to it long enough.

In China, wheat allergies are rare. Rice allergies are common. Why is that? Because they eat a lot of rice and very little wheat.

I would never have pin pointed what was wrong with my stomach if I hadn't eliminated all wheat from my diet, and no doctor ever brought up this subject.

Of course, no pill can ever cure a wheat allergy, which explains why my acid reflux and IBS would come back immediately after resuming a wheat diet.


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RE: Acid Reflux

No one should expect much from a personal testimonial of any kind - no matter who it's from. That's why the best treatments come as a result of controlled studies and clinical trials to look at safety and effectiveness.

"After two hours, my heartburn was completely gone (with ACV)."

That's often been my experience with heartburn when I don't take anything at all. It goes away within minutes if I take antacids or Zantac.


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RE: Acid Reflux

Star - what you have is called a gluten intolerance... it's not so much an actual allergy, but in any case, there are special diets, ingredients, etc. you can get to substitute for wheat products, and you should look into it more closely - and your MD certainly should have picked up on it - it's not rare!


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RE: Acid Reflux

I've just stumbled across this forum while searching for information on stomach problems.

I don't have acid 'reflux' as such but periodically get problems with my stomach. When I go to bed my stomach will start gurgling very loudly and churning so much that it is impossible to sleep. My doctor said that I was producing too much acid - but antacids and the medicine and pills he gave me do not work (they have absolutely no effect on the gurgling and churning, which doesn't even lessen to any noticeable degree).

I have not tried cider vinegar but have discovered my own 'miracle' cure which should not logically work. I have always avoided alcohol when having these spells, because I read that this can aggrevate the problem. But one particularly bad night when I was desparate for some sleep I downed two glasses of red wine in the hope that this would knock me out. The gurgling immediately got worse ('what have I done!') but then within fifteen minutes the gurgling had stopped and I had my best sleep for a month. Now whenever I have problems I drink a glass of red wine at the onset (one is usually enough) and have a peaceful night.

I have no idea why this should work unless it works like the cider vinegar: perhaps I don't produce enough acid, rather than too much, and my stomach is gurgling and churning to try and digest my food. Anyway, I am now going to try the cider vinegar to see if that works (it would probably be better for me than knocking back wine at two in the morning!)


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RE: Acid Reflux

I find exercise has been a great help with stabalizing my night time symptoms but definitely wait a few hours before exercising. :) I find it is more food and diet that affect me than anything. Actaully i recently read an article on pharmdaily.com about acid reflux and my holiday diet. With so much yummy bad food around it might help some of you as well! http://pharmdaily.com/Article/5544/Tempting_Holiday_Treats_Can_Be_Hard_to_Swallow.html?CategoryID=15&Search= Good luck and happy holidays!


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Silent Reflux

I was told my my doctor that I have silent reflux because I have no heartburn, just never ending postnasal drip, coughing and constant throat clearing. After a CT scan I found out my sinus are fine and I had allergy testing and all I am allergic to is Cypress Trees (none are within 20 miles) Seems like it does not matter what I eat I get all the same reaction. I have tried prescription Prilosec and Protonix with very bad reactions to both. EXTREME fatigue and confusion, both which went away immediately after I stopped taking them. I tried the usual Zantac and Tagament with no luck. I just started prescription Pepcid 6 days ago and it doesn't seem to help either so far. I have stayed away from all the foods and drinks that I have been told aggravate reflux but it doesn't make a difference.. I'm at my wit's end. Any ideas? This tread seems very informative but I haven't seen anything on silent refulx ... Thanks for your help.


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RE: Acid Reflux

Thanks everyone for this great thread, and a special thank you to vinegarman for the research and nightwinddrifter for your service, well-considered and expressed argument and for being hysterically funny. Decades of occasional gut troubles became excruciating a couple years ago when I endured a course of prednisone in an attempt to quash insufferable new allergic asthma. Since that time, bearing in mind previous naggings by naturopathic physician and dad the pharmacist etc. etc. etc. I've tried every OTC or script antacid available in the US and NONE WORK. AT ALL. UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCE, DIETARY OR ATTITUDINAL MODIFICATION OR EXERCISE OR PRACTICE ETC. This morning I could hardly drive from pain and dizzyness of it and last night's flat stomach looked like I needed to pass a basketball. A friend emailed me about the vinegar which I'd forgotten about(!), I drank it and IT EVEN TASTED GOOD (as desperately needed things will do, eat your greens), the basketball began deflating immediately and I am thrilled.


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RE: Acid Reflux

All those things you're all trying and being unsuccessful with may have only incidental relevance to what's really going on, which could simply be a genetic predisposition to gastritis, which you can only treat by staying away from the 'wrong' foods, but can't cure it - you have it, and must live with it (as I do!). Nothing you eat or don't eat will change the basic reality of it. You need an endoscopy by your MD (a snap - totally painless, you're lightly anesthetized and awake within an hour, go home within two).


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RE: Acid Reflux

Posted by heldewski,
nightwinddrifter certainly has good common sense and excellent communication skills. Thanks for writing. (Thanks for serving, as well.)

Thank you for your kind words. Don't forget to thank yourselves, too. We're all fine people!

I've also had just about no success with PPIs and OTC antacids. Tums do taste good though, so at least I can justify that cost.

Posted by vinegarman,
It appears some posters don't know very much about vinegar, and I am not going to get into a large debate about it, I will just say, that drinking vinegar will cure acid reflux. and the reason is quite a simple one, for some people to understand, yet difficult for those, that deny the facts!

This is a wonderful conclusion, and I hope that it is indeed true. What you're saying makes perfect sense to me, and brings closure to questions of why vinegar is so effective for me.

Unfortunately, I don't take too well to drinking diluted vinegar. I tried it once - mixed it in 50/50 with water. The only thing I can remember is that I was so horrified at the taste that I shriveled in pain and became blinded by tears. Guess I'll try a 70/30 ratio next!

starrlaura said,
Vinegar does work for me, and it doesn't have to be Apple Cider vinegar. Any works, and it works right away and so much faster than any of the pills the doctor gives me.

Another one for team vinegar-does-work! Thank you for emphasizing the fact that it doesn't have to be apple cider vinegar. I didn't realize this. Assuming vinegarman's argument is true, you're absolutely right. Thank goodness; finding apple cider vinegar in the vinegar isle is like looking for Osama in Afghanistan. Or maybe I'm just lazy?

Eric said,
No one should expect much from a personal testimonial of any kind - no matter who it's from. That's why the best treatments come as a result of controlled studies and clinical trials to look at safety and effectiveness.

First of all, I'd like to thank Eric Oh for his continuing presence in here. Despite our different viewpoints and experiences, I want to make it clear that I can at least "agree to disagree" with his conclusions on this tricky matter.

Back to the topic at hand: if conducted in an open-source manner that facilitates integrity (IE: open study), I can agree that you are able to derive your best solutions from controlled trials. As you may have noticed, however, I believe that pharmaceutical trials are anything but honest. I won't rehash the argument here for the sake of relevancy (just re-read my post if you care), but know that this is my belief.

It's just too easy to exclude valid testimonials because they "didn't participate in this obscure, ambiguous controlled study conducted with 23.5 year old women in New Zealand after giving birth, which should be about three days prior to the summer solstice." The only thing I expect from a testimonial is just that - a person's experience. I can identify with that far better than said study, and it's much easier to dismiss individual results than medical science's feeble attempt to organize a big, random, diverse cluster of people into a few coherent variables.

Just like if you told me that PPIs work for you, I can agree that they did and give PPIs a benefit of a doubt on the grounds that they worked for you, which you said here:
That's often been my experience with heartburn when I don't take anything at all. It goes away within minutes if I take antacids or Zantac.
(In regards to heartburn going away)

I wish I could say the same was true for me. Believe me, just like the rest of overmedicated-America, I want to be able to pop a pill and have it go away. Unfortunately, it isn't that easy (for me). I already tried. Now that I think of it, there's a funny quote along the same lines of what I just mentioned. It's a little old, but it goes like this:

"In the 60's, people took acid to make the world weird. Now the world is weird and people take Prozac to make it normal."

jewel_2006 said,
I have no idea why this should work unless it works like the cider vinegar: perhaps I don't produce enough acid, rather than too much, and my stomach is gurgling and churning to try and digest my food.

I would tend to think that wine's effect is similar to vinegar's. You've come to the same possible conclusion I have: either our stomachs aren't producing enough acid, or (with vinegarman's twist) our stomachs are producing acid that's too heavily concentrated and that vinegar/wine has an alkaline effect on the concentration. Of course, if the latter is the case, then you'd think that water would have the same effect. Sounds like a call for more discussion.

jessicsd posted:
I find it is more food and diet that affect me than anything.

I concur.

refluxsnf, you said:
I was told my my doctor that I have silent reflux because I have no heartburn, just never ending postnasal drip, coughing and constant throat clearing.

Actually, I have the same thing most of the time. Now, heartburn and vomiting are rare. I've been deployed for about 4 months now, and I attribute the change of intensity of my GERD to a change in diet. I still get it but it's relatively mild.

tomatozilla writes,
Thanks everyone for this great thread, and a special thank you to vinegarman for the research and nightwinddrifter for your service, well-considered and expressed argument and for being hysterically funny.

Thank you for reading and considering the "dark side" of the house. Your mention of driving reminds me of one of my own experiences with GERD. I was driving to see my grandpa in Rochester. The whole time I had an itching sensation at my throat. As I neared my exit, I suddenly had to hurl. Not car sick and I didn't eat, but I had to throw up really bad. It was so bad that I drove straight into the painted divider between the continuing highway and exit. I slammed the brakes, threw my hazards on, opened the door, and threw up. It was so instantaneous that I managed to hurl on a part of the car. Good thing it was a rental. A cop car passed behind me during the whole ordeal and didn't even slow. I guess he's familar with GERD!

I was so angry. I took an Aciphex an hour prior to that trip just to prevent a mishap like that on the road. It was like an unanswered prayer. People with their self-assuring, depth-lacking, feel-good knowledge like "lucy" had me convinced that it was the answer to my troubles. Not so much.

I also know of this "basketball stomach" you speak of. Back when my GERD was bad, my girlfriend took the strange pleasure of pressing on my stomach to encourage me to pass gas. I was a human air pump. She thought it was funny, but I hated the idea of being a balloon for the rest of my GERD-gaseous life. Fortunately, my GERD has calmed down significantly, which encouraged me to try working my abs out again (I thought working out my abs was aggravating my condition). Looks like I passed the ball for the (seemingly) last time!

And lucy (sigh) writes,
All those things you're all trying and being unsuccessful with may have only incidental relevance to what's really going on, which could simply be a genetic predisposition to gastritis, which you can only treat by staying away from the 'wrong' foods, but can't cure it - you have it, and must live with it (as I do!).

In a past post you wanted an reasonable (or scientific) explanation. You get one, along with several personal accounts. Yet once again, you're beating around the bush. I didn't expect you to acknowledge my post, but I also didn't expect you to continue your irritating holier-than-thou attitude without addressing the successes that I and many others have had with vinegar. Stop labeling these people and me ignorant. Your blanket statements and treatments might be acceptable inside a clinic, but your prejudices don't apply here. These people throw up, can't sleep, and are hurting. I think they know what's "really going on".

Maybe this realization will blow your mind: not everything a doctor recommends will work for everybody. Your Prelief works for you. Vinegar works for me. Two speakers on opposite spectrums, and what makes your suggestion any better than mine? Nothing. SURPRISE! Are you a pharmacist? RN? Or are you just like me - a crusader against what we believe to be misleading? Regardless of what you are in life, one thing's clear - you're not acknowledging the successes on this board that people have with vinegar. And being a pharmacist/RN/doctor doesn't exclude you from addressing these people who have proven that going "against the grain" isn't the evil that you make it out to be.

You also once recommended seeing a doctor instead of a "chat line" for GERD advice. Once again, these people aren't ignorant, and here's why: the power of the internet to proliferate and compound knowledge is limitless. Stock trading is no longer exclusive to high society. Running a business doesn't have to cost overhead anymore. And my favorite - basic medicinal knowledge is available even to the average Joe. Welcome to the internet. Sorry, but you don't even need an Associates to comment on how well a medicine worked for you. Whether or not you believe what you read online is your choice, but it's hard to discount someone's personal experience just because they contrast with your conclusions, which are probably based on Eric's biased clinical trials. Honestly, I think it's more fun to watch paint dry than to sift through thousands of pages of fabricated junk which was produced under the name of capitalism.

Oh and by the way, PPIs suck.

I ingested something you can buy almost anywhere at low cost. You ingested some over-engineered, profit-seeking medicine that seems to marginally "cure" the situation at hand. If pharmaceuticals were truly the cure you preach them to be, why does this thread even exist? A good lot of us have tried them, and still come back complaining about the same thing.

You also said,
Nothing you eat or don't eat will change the basic reality of it. You need an endoscopy by your MD
And if nothing, vinegar or PPI, will change the "basic reality" of this, what's an endoscopy supposed to do? Recommend a series of PPIs? But you just said...! Oh, nevermind.

Your poster will be on the wall indefinitely, I suppose.


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RE: Acid Reflux

Did you ever try bio-feed back. Radio Shack use to sell a simple machine you could buy and put together for about $15.00. It worked on a number of audio clicks that you by concentrating to bring it down to single clicks. It's not easy but it's do able. Have some fun. Wear it around other people and see who's affecting you the wrong way. At least it would start conversations with the right "bad" people in your life.


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RE: Acid Reflux

An endoscopy can diagnose gastritis (and a whole lot of other things), and once you have a diagnosis, you can decide on treatment. Otherwise, you can drink vinegar (or not drink it) til the cows come home, but will still have gastritis, but will have horribly worsened it if you do drink vinegar. That's all!


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RE: Acid Reflux

Well I stumbled on this thread as it seems many have, looking for information about acid reflux. I've had my symptoms for about 2 months. The worst for me is nausea followed closely by the burning in my stomach which started about a month into it.

I did the endoscopy with a GI doc and at first he thought it was something called allergic esophagitus, but biopsies of the area turned up negative. So he prescribed Aciphex and I've been on it for about three weeks now.

My esophagus is thankfully not irritated except for the tissue just above the opening to my stomach. The meds have helped some, actually quite a bit, but today my stomach is burning again, and I'm not entirely sure of the cause.

Chocolate is one thing that will set me off as well as tomato-based sauces, and I've been trying to watch those things as well as other obvious food no-nos for people who have this.

It's worked relatively well until today, and I really have no idea what might have caused this flare up.

I've always enjoyed excellent health, and consequently on the rare occassion I get some kind of ailment that drags on, I enter panic mode.

I let my mind run off on all kinds of wild tangents always imagining the worst scenario, and I know this doesn't help my stomach. Sleeping has become an issue too because of all this, and so I'm trying to get a handle on all this worry.

I'm not excited about the possibility of having to take a pill for the rest of my life, and so I'm looking hard at lifestlye changes (diet, more exercise, etc.) as I'm a big believer in those kinds of preventative steps.

I am also interested in trying the vinegar option though. My fear however, as someone else pointed out, is that it'll just light my stomach up. Maybe I'll wait until the weekend to give this a shot. Getting through the days has been a trial when my stomach is really bothering me, and I just don't think I can take sitting at my desk being miserable with a couple of shots of vinergar on my stomach if it doesn't work.

Even if it does work, I still plan to make the diet and exercise mods. I'm getting older (though still just 36) and I'm starting to feel the years. Being a little (or a lot) smarter about the choices I make in terms of preventative health maintenance won't be a bad thing for sure.


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RE: Acid Reflux

Chez - You said you have no idea what started the burning today... Well, what I was trying to say in my note (re gastritis and getting an endo.) is that if you have a 'congenital' condition, or predisposition to one, it's not going to be about an individual trigger on any given day, but that your body (still a mystery to everyone, including MD's and alternative docs) may just decide (for no reason we can trace) to go off on you and you, and then be fine the next day. There are very many chemical interactions taking place in our bodies all day, every day, and what sets off something today (obvious to you) may have started 3 days ago inside, and either you've forgotten that you had a bit of something that could aggravate the condition, or it's just a result of your body's inner busy-ness, and maybe your MD can put a name on it today or maybe he can't, but all we can do is be as careful as possible not to deliberately have something we're sure is a trigger, like chocolate or highly acidic foods. But it won't make the condition go away for good necessarily, just allow us to live with it reasonably well.


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RE: Acid Reflux

Well I couldn't wait until the weekend. I decided to just take a couple tablespoons of apple cider vinegar with some water and honey this morning.

My stomach burned late into the night and settled down a little just before I went to sleep. I woke up this morning with a little burning sensation so I decided I'd try it with some vinegar we had in the pantry.

At first I thought, "This was a huge mistake," as my stomach burned more and I started to feel a little nauseous. I could picture my worst fears of muddling through the day with the vinegar burning a hole in my stomach, but then after about 20 minutes it stopped. Completely.

The oatmeal I had prepared for breakfast before taking the vinegar actually looked pretty appetizing, and instead of forcing it down as I have done in recent mornings, I tore into it savoring every bite.

I'm not at all prepared to proclaim this a miracle cure. I'm a skeptic's skeptic, but right now I'm cautiously optimistic. I'll keep trying it and see what happens. If it works, fantastic. But I'll still be doing my best to make the changes I think are necessary.

Lucy's point about some people's bodies having a predisposition to these ailments is a good one. Sometimes maybe there is no "reason" behind why we feel the way we do.

Maybe I will never be completely "cured" and that, if that is the case, sucks. But I'll be doing all I can to cope and help my body try to manage it a little better.


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RE: Acid Reflux

I can remember sleeping with the dreaded bottle of Pepto by my bed since I was a child. Hundreds of years later it seems like I found the solution to my acid reflux. this was al a fluke to discover. Gere is what Ido.

I just dring unsweetened pineapple jiuce about a half a cup a day and no more tums no more acid reflux. When I first started doing this it caused more acid reflux for a few days and then it was all over. I noticed if I run out it takes about two weeks for the acid reflux to return.

This is probably not the best way to get rid of it but it worked for me.

Hubby in hurry for phone no time to spell check. Sorry.

Chris


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RE: Acid Reflux

Posted by lucy 5 (My Page) on Mon, Sep 25, 06 at 6:53

You're the #1 reason people should just listen to their M.D.'s and not everyone out there with admitted ignorance of science and medicine!

Yes....Blindly listen to people interested in keeping you sick. If you weren't sick, why would you need THEM? (doctors).

Posted by eric_oh 6a (My Page) on Sun, Sep 17, 06 at 0:45

So you tried it and it worked for you. Others (including posters on this forum) tried it and it didn't work, and/or made them sick. So which type of personal testimonial should we believe?
Or would it be better to look at large studies under controlled conditions where results are much more trustworthy, and all the defects of testimonials are avoided?

Eric, how do you think that these "studies" are funded? Why - I'm sure the manufacturers of Prylosec and Tums could tell you.

Too.......how do you think that the people conducting the studies come up with their "scientific conclusions"? Is it by using the "absolute pain and discomfort meter" they hook people up to that monitors every pain and ailment with a digital readout of undisputable data that definatively states a persons level of success or failure from a treatment?

The studies rely on the amount of success that the participants TELL them they have on PERSONAL TESTIMONY.

While everyone is entitled to their assessment of their own situation, I don't doubt that vinegar will have success stories and not-so-successful stories. Just like Advil, Tums, Robitussin, Advair, or any other prescription on the planet, prescriptions work for some that don't work for others. Why is it so "acceptable" to go to the doctor 7 times and get 12 different prescriptions and not acceptable to just TRY vinegar to see if it works for you or not??

My experience with vinegar came from desparation. I heard about 2 TBLS vinegar in 8 oz water with honey for migraines. I had migraines every 48 hours. I lost my job. My children suffered - I could not pay attention to them - I had to be in a dark room with the door shut an no noise. I contemplated suicide at one point. I was on everything known to migraine treatment that has come out of the reveared "clinical studies". Doped up, in pain, with recurring episodes. Yeah, some relief (insert sarcasm here).

Then came the vinegar ...thanks to the internet.

During my 4th migraine episode in a 7 day period, 4 hours after taking vinegar, the pain subsided to a manageble level.

I took a measured amount the next morning and have every morning since (about 2 months ago). I haven't had a migraine since.

Oh - I did experience one side effect. My occasional "heartburn" became non-existant as well.

I did tell my husband about it and he was so relieved. He was out of the country for several months and when he got back, he was amazed to find a whole, healthy wife with no headaches and migraines after 18 years.

Cure? I don't know. Miracle? YES.

Oh, and my husband started vinegar for his stomach. He's had colonoscopys, gastric tests, etc and popped Tums like candy. He no longer takes any "antacids". And he no longer suffers from "stomach problems", whatever they may have been "officially diagnosed" as.

So, to each their own. I prefer to find reason NOT to take medicines. If you prefer to treat Doctors like they know everything, well then that is your preference. Take the expensive pills and cover up the symptoms. I prefer to change what is wrong and fix the problem - therefore no symptoms because thhere is no problem.


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RE: Acid Reflux

Research studies are funded from a wide variety of sources, including foundation grants, government agencies, cancer societies and drug companies. Researchers are required to list affiliations that might pose a conflict of interest, so readers and reviewers can judge potential biases. It's not a perfect system, but it's the best we have.

It'd be nice to have clinical studies showing a benefit for vinegar in acid reflux patients, potentially biased or not, but they don't exist. Maybe the companies hustling cider vinegar pills (which have been shown in some instances to contain little or no vinegar) or more expensive vinegar preparations (such as those containing "the mother") could spend a fraction of their profits to fund some clinical studies. They could demonstrate that vinegar lowers acid production in the stomach, if that's actually the case. But don't hold your breath. It's a lot cheaper to present testimonials, whether real or imaginary.

It's nice that unlike some other folks, you feel your symptoms are relieved by vinegar. If people want to try some cheap vinegar from the supermarket for their reflux and know the risks to their esophagus of further acid damage, that's up to them. Instead of "Miracle" cures that are unlikely to have long-term effects, it's still better to undertake lifestyle changes and watch your diet rather than expecting to depend on any pill or liquid remedy for the rest of your life.


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RE: Acid Reflux

Doctors don't haft to keep us sick. Mother Nature makes sure to keep us on our toes. Doctors are not evil. There is no conspriacy theory there.


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RE: Acid Reflux

I have the same problem. My doctor prescribed Pantoloc and I'd been taking it every day for years. Works ok - but not always great.

My herbalist then recommended a regime of slippery elm bark and an herbal tea that actually tastes pretty good. I now alternate days - 1 day Pantoloc, 1 day herbal remedies - and I'm aiming to stop the Pantoloc entirely as the herbal stuff makes me feel better than the prescription medicine. Fortunately our health care plan covers herbal remedies.

If you want to know more, check out her web site at www.katolenyardley.com. (I hope it's within forum rules to post this URL - my apologies if it's not).

- R.


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RE: Acid Reflux

A quarter teaspoon of apple cider vinegar in a glass of water does wonders for acid reflux, heart burn or indigestion. It is best to use organic apple cider vinegar because apples tend to absorb a lot of pesticidie residue through their skins. ACV is also a good source of potassium and other minerals.

Acid reflux is often caused by interruption of the digestion process, that is, eating before the last round of food has been comletely digested. If a person eats whilst the digestion cycle is in progress, the cycle is thrown out of whack.


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RE: Acid Reflux

Here's a good overview of apple cider vinegar and what it's claimed to do.

"There is no scientific evidence that apple cider vinegar has any medicinal properties. While the folksy anecdotes from those who claim to have benefited from apple cider vinegar tonics may be amusing to read, they are simply that -- anecdotes.

Apple cider vinegar is anything but a storehouse of nutrients. A nutritional analysis of one tablespoon (more than the one or two teaspoons suggested to make a tonic) reveals that the golden liquid contains less than a gram of carbohydrate: minuscule amounts of calcium, iron, magnesium, sodium. copper, manganese, and phosphorus; and a mere 15 mg of potassium. The fiber, vitamin, and amino acid content is zero."

I would also have to disagree about reflux being due to "interrupted" digestion. What may help sufferers is to eat more small meals than a few large ones, and to avoid eating shortly before bedtime.


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RE: Acid Reflux

Eric, one can state one's opinion. That is what forums are all about. My opinion and experience are valid. Please keep that in mind, considering your tone, when you choose to disagree with somebody. There is no need to attempt to invalidate another person's opinion, when stating one's own opinion. Whenever someone tells me there is no scientific evidence to prove something, my response is that there is also no scientific evidence to disprove.

One can find arguments both for and against any subject matter on the Internet. When I do research, I always read both sides of an issue, or subject, and subsequently make up my own mind as to what I wish to believe. For instance, there are many web sites which state eyebright should not be consumed, only used topically. However, there are web sites which claim eyebright can be used internally, as well as topically.

I suffered from reflux for approximately one year. When I learned how the digestive process functions, and subsequently adopted a new routine of allowing my digestive process to complete itself before introducing anything else into my stomach, I never again had an incident of reflux. That was many years ago. No more reflux, even though I do eat before I go to bed because I am hypoglycemic. Personally, I need to have enough food in my system to avoid a sugar low whilst sleeping.

I have had heartburn or indigestion a few times in recent years. As I mentioned, apple cider vinegar in water immediately cures the problem for me. My elderly mother has not had any incidents of reflux since she has begun to use vinegar on a daily basis. (She has a hiatial (sp?) hernia, which her doctor stated is the reason she has reflux.) Mom often suffers from heartburn directly after eating. Her new vinegar routine also corrects that problem. She no longer takes Tums on a daily basis. (I am very glad of that, because antiacids rob the body of Vit. Bs.) It is my mother's opinion that any vinegar will work. She could be correct. She likes champaign vinegar, and she also uses ACV.


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RE: Acid Reflux

I don't mind if you disagree with me, though that also could be seen as "attempting to invalidate" the evidence I presented. :)

"Whenever someone tells me there is no scientific evidence to prove something, my response is that there is also no scientific evidence to disprove."

In any field of science claims need to be backed by evidence to be taken seriously. It's considered the obligation of the claimant to establish the necessary evidence.

Non-evidence-based herbalism relies on ad campaigns and testimonials. Many times, testimonials are either invented, contradictory, or posted by people who actually are selling the products in question. In the case of genuine testimonials, often people do not have the condition they are attempting to treat, or it's one of those disorders (like reflux) that comes and goes, so it's difficult to say on limited experience if something works. (my own reflux has been much better lately and I haven't been on any medication or taken any cider vinegar either. Go figure.)

If you search "cider vinegar" on this forum, you'll find a number of people who say it didn't work for them or made the condition worse. This kind of testimonial isn't very reliable either, so many people feel more assured dealing with products validated by well-designed studies instead.


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RE: Acid Reflux

One interesting correlation that's come up recently in scientific journals is the connection between GERD (overnight) and sleep apnea - they're trying to figure out which comes first, though it's not as important as dealing with the problems. OSA (obstructive SA) is a very serious condition that needs to be diagnosed properly with sleep studies and the GERD often resolves once the OSA is treated. If anyone with overnight reflux also has problems staying awake during the day, get yourself checked out... you could have blood pressure problems which lead to strokes, and could be in danger of traffic accidents caused by sleepiness. Sleeping more without treatment doesn't improve things, so look into it if you're in doubt.


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RE: Acid Reflux

I very much believe in probiotics. One needs healthy flora in the digestive tract for good function. Good quality yoghurt (no sugar in it) is probiotic.

I recently took in a very young abandoned puppy. Her little gut was totally upset. I fixed her up with a daily dose of yoghurt. Within a few days her stools were normal and no longer had a foul odor. I vetted her, too, of course. The vet thought yoghurt was a good idea to get her system in balance.

Pineapple and papaya have enzymes which are great digestive aids. The French use a liquor, a type of bitters, as a digestive aid. I've tried the liquor, and it does work. However, I wasn't too crazy about the flavor of it.


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RE: Acid Reflux

I'm unaware of any good evidence for probiotics helping reflux. Certain preparations may be useful in treating or preventing conditions such as diarrhea, but there are potential drawbacks as well. Some "natural" probiotic products have been found to not contain any living bacteria, or kind(s) that are not supposed to be in the product.

"There are a wide range of commercially available probiotic preparations that make various claims for their beneficial effects. As yet these are largely a marketing proposition rather than verifiable biotherapeutic effects."

Link.


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RE: Acid Reflux

I just came across this, and oh well, put me in the list of people who have found apple cider works. For me, that is. I was amazed. The reasons I gather it works pretty much match those describe by nightwinddrifter.

However, I am concerned about the effect of low pH on teeth enamel. I know some people mix it with baking soda to make it more neutral, but I wonder if that might invite other problems.


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RE: Acid Reflux

Correction: I meant to write apple cider vinegar, not just apple cider.


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RE: Acid Reflux

High acid content can erode tooth enamel, such as eating a lot of grapefruit or drinking a lot of grapefruit juice. (Some of you may remember a popular grapefruit diet during the late 60's.) It is the direct contact with tooth enamel, which can cause problems. Brushing one's teeth, or rinsing one's mouth out well, can prevent such problems.


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RE: Acid Reflux

Hello again, folks. I just wanted to chime in to see how this discussion panned out.

lucy, you said:
An endoscopy can diagnose gastritis (and a whole lot of other things), and once you have a diagnosis, you can decide on treatment. Otherwise, you can drink vinegar (or not drink it) til the cows come home, but will still have gastritis, but will have horribly worsened it if you do drink vinegar. That's all!

Nah, the cows came home and I've long since put the (vinegar) bottle down. I don't have gastritis, and it hasn't worsened. Conventional medicine once again bears its mark on you: you truly expected me to rely on some substance, drug or vinegar, to see me through for the rest of my life? I don't know about you, but I prefer drugs and the such to be temporary in use.

So Lucy, start moo'ing.

Eric said:
It'd be nice to have clinical studies showing a benefit for vinegar in acid reflux patients, potentially biased or not, but they don't exist.

Is the nonexistence of such studies your basis for calling mine, and others' experiences illegitimate? Welcome to the internet, where market conversations are no longer confined to studies backed by ulterior interests and fueled by billion-dollar pharmaceutical companies. You REALLY think they're more objective than the testimonial?

Maybe the companies hustling cider vinegar pills (which have been shown in some instances to contain little or no vinegar) or more expensive vinegar preparations (such as those containing "the mother") could spend a fraction of their profits to fund some clinical studies.

There's far more incentive for big pharmacy to fund these studies. Besides, why take a fraction of GNC's profits when we can take a fraction of Boehringer's, owners of Zantac? Now you're being ridiculous.

It's a lot cheaper to present testimonials, whether real or imaginary.

It sure is. After all, a market is a conversation, and this conversation best thrives when PEOPLE speak to PEOPLE. You sound like an educated man so I'll refrain from insulting you on the topic of marketing and why it usually fails in this day and age. Let's keep it simple: testimonials are POWERFUL, especially in an unmoderated medium not confined by the dollar sign. The internet and its many critics are perhaps the greatest obstacle to any successful marketing campaign, to include the great PPI-push. Ever check Rotten Tomatoes before seeing a movie? Ever read reviews on CNET about a smartphone before actually buying one? Ever read NewEgg's comments on a computer part before placing an order? Guess what ALL of these CREDIBLE sources have in common.

Here's two hints: 1. it's not an advertisement or a study, and 2. it begins with T and ends in ESTIMONY.

It's nice that unlike some other folks, you feel your symptoms are relieved by vinegar.

It's not just "nice", Eric. Don't use such quaint phrasing to describe what others would consider life-changing relief. Not only are you ridiculous, but rude as well. That doesn't suit you as you're clearly trying to engage in intelligent conversation.

Instead of "Miracle" cures that are unlikely to have long-term effects, it's still better to undertake lifestyle changes and watch your diet rather than expecting to depend on any pill or liquid remedy for the rest of your life.

Perhaps the most sensible thing you've said yet; it makes me assume that you're misunderstanding your contending audience or that you're confused about your alignment. The folks here don't want to be on PPIs for the rest of their lives. They want the miracle cure (who doesn't?) but probably don't want to be on that for the rest of their lives either. The vinegar works as temporary relief, but no one here fancies the idea of drinking it for life. Lifestyle and diet changes are indeed paramount.

Eric, I'm a bit familiar with the FDA drug approval process and the studies involved to validate FDA acceptance. You must be more acquainted with them than me, as you claimed in another thread to be a practicing physician. I wouldn't be surprised if you knew every drug that resides in the schedules. Anyway, we can talk about third parties/independent studies, blind, and double blinds all day long. At the end of the day, we're going to take advice from our buddy; the guy we can relate to and understand more than any thing.

You will continue to tell us about how ACV should wreck you more than help you. I will tell you that it wasn't the case with me. There are more in this thread that agree. What of your studies? Is it really that much easier to validate them and yourself by saying that we've been misled? I hope that you eventually decide to become more receptive to individual (read: unique) circumstances where cookie-cutter treatments and studies may not hold the answers.

So, let's talk about the burden of proof for a second:

1. We say ACV helps tame GERD symptoms
2. Eric says that's impossible because of what studies have said about PPIs (irrelevant, by the way)
3. Eric makes allusion based on studies, the nature of most GERD symptoms, and assumptions of vinegar: that it cannot possibly help treat GERD symptoms
4. We have provided proof that it does via "it worked for me" after trying it for ourselves
5. (this is where you assumed the burden of proof and have failed thus far)

Who's the authority when it comes from our word itself? Even a court proceeds under the assumption that both claimant and defendant are telling the truth unless proven otherwise. If you tell me you're a woman even though your name is Eric, I'll believe you. Why? There's no reason NOT to. You wouldn't lie about it - it's not a big deal. Catch my drift? I, we, have NO INCENTIVE TO LIE TO YOU period dot ellipsis.

Anyway, if you continue to try to tell me that my own experiences aren't genuine (don't waste your time), you have a GREAT burden ahead of you. That's like trying to convince me that it's not air that I'm breathing.

-

I haven't had a GERD "outbreak" (haha) since I've last posted on this forum. I give credit to ACV as an intermediate step, but I believe that my recovery is due in large part to a change in diet. For those who must know, I stopped eating microwave foods and drink WAY less (as in, I only drank once a weekend before and now I drink on blue moons).

On a closing note, I appreciate the attention that Eric has given to this particular thread in the recent months. It's a sincere privilege to address a medical professional and receive his perspectives.


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RE: Acid Reflux

"Is the nonexistence of such studies your basis for calling mine, and others' experiences illegitimate?"

Nowhere did I call your or anyone else's experiences "illegitimate", only that testimonials are a poor source on which to base treatment. The same goes for negative testimonials about ACV which we've seen in this forum. Are you calling those reports "illegitimate"? :)

"Welcome to the internet, where market conversations are no longer confined to studies backed by ulterior interests and fueled by billion-dollar pharmaceutical companies."

Yes, welcome to the internet - where ads disguised as testimonials are posted by people who don't tell us that they're working for supplement companies, sometimes as shills in multilevel marketing schemes. And this problem goes well beyond health care. In recent months, executives for numerous firms have been caught promoting their own products and blasting competitors, while posting in public forums under assumed names.

This is just part of the reason that large-scale clinical trials are a lot more convincing on efficacy and safety of drugs and treatments, as compared to anecdotes.

"There's far more incentive for big pharmacy (rather than supplement companies) to fund these studies."

Yes. That "incentive" begins with complying with the law. There's no such compulsion for supplement dealers. They also have a huge negative incentive for ponying up some of their profits for studies - the very real fear that their products will be shown to be useless. Much safer just to cite anecdotes.

"Let's keep it simple: testimonials are POWERFUL, especially in an unmoderated medium not confined by the dollar sign...Ever check Rotten Tomatoes before seeing a movie?"

Sure. Word of mouth is fine, too for lots of trivial things. My health is a different story.

"I haven't had a GERD "outbreak" (haha) since I've last posted on this forum. I give credit to ACV as an intermediate step, but I believe that my recovery is due in large part to a change in diet. For those who must know, I stopped eating microwave foods and drink WAY less (as in, I only drank once a weekend before and now I drink on blue moons)."

Good for you. It's unusual to see a poster in this forum give adequate credit to proven dietary/lifestyle changes instead to ascribing relief entirely to a magical alternative remedy that was being used at the same time.


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RE: Acid Reflux

And so is gone anyone else you're with I would imagine, rosebud....wow....all these takes on curing acid reflux is very interesting. I am going to try the DGL licorice as ACV didn't do anything for me (maybe I didn't stick w. it long enough). I am 33 and never ever had heartburn issues...I eat pretty healthy and not all that much at a time or too heavily.

Last 6 mos. I have burn/tickle/scratchiness in my throat. Some chest pressure and 'lump in throat' feeling from time to time. Some could be anxiety, but it's also a real heartburn or pressure in the throat that doesn't ever go away. Very frustrating. I'm trying all sorts of diet things (no more alcohol, etc.). I've read too many awful things abt. PPI meds and the harm they do to ever try them.


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RE: Acid Reflux

Ive been on Prilosec 20mg for 11 years or more. Somedays it works other days I need to take a Zantac at night also.Does the stomach get use to the Prilosec and start producing more acid over time even when on the drug? Will one have to take two at some point to control Acid Reflux? I hope not but do know my gets very painful. I usually get nausia and food stuck in the troat feeling more so then burning in the chest.. Funny thing is I find those Pepperment candies t6 seem to help mine at times and chewing gum..Someone also said Apples are good for it but can not say that works for me really..Love to here what helps people as some days are tougher then others with this issue.


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RE: Acid Reflux

Hi jess,
chewing on gum & apples, savoring peppermints generate saliva you swallow so tones down the acid it encounters; can't offer insight into drugs' suitability


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Acid Reflux

Been reading internet researching GERD and foods to eat, foods to avoid. Was in hospital emergency three times in several months, scores of antibiotics, thee scrips for prednisome, all of which were to treat me for what was a 'severe bronchial cough' possible pneumonia. Long story stort, wound up in yet another emergency room with severe coughing fits, referred to a lung specialist, diagnosed Acid Reflux .. what I HAVE NO OTHER SYMPTONS... no sick tummy, no pains in chest (other than coughing big time) but started monday with meds to see. Read foods and they are 'all' I eat..my questions: what do you drink daily? Love coffee, tea and diet sodas.. what now? I drink all day ... thanks


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RE: Acid Reflux

LindaMargaret:

I'm an Herbal Practitioner. I think I can help, but I have to warn you that I apply traditional Chinese herbology and it's a totally different way to view health than what is done in the modern medical world.

But first something has to be established. You have a condition which contributes to the symptom of acid reflux according to your own words.

I want to ask you . . . Do you have a desire to eat several times daily even if it's in small amounts? Do you have a larger-than-usual thirst? Are you a worrier? Do you have intense dreams?

If you answer yes to these questions, I'll give you the reason and a solution.

Charlie in Arizona
The Herbalist


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RE: Acid Reflux

I have been diagnosed with AReflux. Actually I did it myself and my Dr confirmed. I've had symptoms for 3 yers but thought it was a rib misalignment.
My Dr is a homeopath/MD: Her list of guidelines:
Avoid carbonated beverages and foods made of soy
Meal time liquids: no ice, limit to 1/2 c for a full hour around meals
After meals be upright, walk, even chew gum if possible (keeps saliva flowing)
Focus on and savor your meals, chew thoroughly. Turn off the computer, TV and phone.
Keep meals small or mid-sized, finish eating 3 hours before bed
Slant your whole bed: head of bed 1-4" higher than foot.
Minimize sweets, non beyond mid-afternoon
Filter your water to avoid chlorine ingestion.
Non-drug treatment:
First Aid: DGL (deglycerized licorice) gum: chew and swallow OR baking soda in water or liquid antacids (1-2 T at a time (Mylanta)
Lots of Water
2. Prevention: Priobiotics: In a word "LOTS". 3 different kinds, several times daily, between meals. After one week, if no improvement, add:
Digestive enzymes (Multizyme) after meals. After one week add:
Zypan (1-2 before meals)

Priobiotics include things like yogurt (good quality stuff w/0 sugar fruit); acidolphilus, kefir (you can make your own very easily)

BTW: The ACV works for some people due to the type of acid in the vinegar (Malic acid).
Lastly: stay away from processed foods; eat close to the ground (fresh dark greens, fresh fruits and vegies - raw if possible and chew); Local foods, Organic; Grow your own if possible. Meats - rabbit is the best due to the low fat content, high protein and many people can raise rabbits themselves.
AReflux can also be triggered by food allergies such as milk, wheat, sugar so leaving these things out of your diet might be a way to cure yourself as well.

If you are into mind-body connections: Louise Hay is a wonderful source in her book "You can Heal your life"
She mentions that Heartburn is a result of "Fear": clutching fear: REmedy: Put Joy back into your life. Fill your life with Joy and happiness, let go of past limitations from parents, etc, Let joy flow thru your body with ease.

Good luck on your personal quest for healing.


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RE: Acid Reflux

I have been doing the Probiotics now for two days and I can sleep thru the night LAYING DOWN, or on either side with NO PAIN. I do not drink during meals but drink a lot of water in between meals and keep the probiotics going.
One clarification on the probiotics: When you purchase them make sure they contain at least 3 different types and contain 5-8 billion probiotics. NOW Brand is good as are many others.
This was such a simple remedy. I hope others can benefit.


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RE: Acid Reflux

cellofool, Zypan combines pancreatin, pepsin, and betaine hydrochloride to facilitate healthy digestion. Betaine HCl is the most common hydrochloric acid-containing supplement. Same acid as your stomach produces, good for those with deficient stomach acid, a major cause of AReflux.

As for the probiotics, great that they're working for you. The gold standard probiotic is the heinously expensive VSL#3 a cocktail of eight live bacterial species: Lactobacilli, Bifidobacteria and a streptococcus strain "a lyophilized mixture consisting of eight different Gram-positive organisms (B. longum, B. infantis, B. breve, L. acidophilus, L. casei, L. delbrueckii ssp. bulgaricus, L. plantarum and Streptococcus salivarius ssp. thermophilus." You can look for reasonably priced probiotics containing most of those.


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RE: Acid Reflux

i work in an open to the public sliding scale herb clinic...acid reflux is a common malady we see there. we give equal parts of marshmallow root and fennel seed for making a tea, works great.

please don't use endangered plants like slippery elm folks! marshmallow is cultivated and plentiful and works wonders, please use it instead.


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RE: Acid Reflux

  • Posted by jll0306 9/ Sunset 18/High De (My Page) on
    Fri, Jun 28, 13 at 20:25

What has helped the Hub has been to raise the head of the bed 5 inches, per his MD' suggestion. Before that, he was using prilosec but two of the reported side effects are weight gain and hair loss...neither of which he needs.

Jan


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RE: Acid Reflux

The purple pill your doctor prescribed is the nexium which offers acid reflux relief for 24 hours.
The home remedy for acid reflux relief are - You can drink aloe vera juice daily and also drinking a cup of warm water with lemon juice would be useful.


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