While I think the government wants to be fair to everyone regarding how they choose to live, whether or not they agree with some of the ways people choose to take care of themselves, it would be enormously difficult to 'outlaw' anything but specific individual remedies which had been shown to be harmful to people on a consistent basis. Where would you begin to outlaw things? Herbalism can cover a lot of territory (the way it seems to be used by people on forums like this one) as it seems to cover everything from making dandelion tea using backyard plants, to things like acupuncture and completely untested 'drugs' (whether plant based or not) from other countries... e.g. 'herbalism' seems to equal 'alternative medicine' to many people, and you can't outlaw dandelions!. Unfortunately the 'powerful lobby' in DC has not done much at all about marijuana and cocaine, though marijuana is much less harmful than cocaine and has been shown to have medicinal uses. I also think though, that it is intelligent to monitor what's out there, as people with very good, but misguided intentions and a lack of education cannot be left to their own devices when it comes to treating children who have no say in the matter. It's one thing for adults to try untested 'medicines', but another to very possibly put children in danger by giving them things based, often, on nothing but testimonials in magazines. You know, Oaklief, people learn by sharing ideas, different opinions, various ways of doing things, and by telling (not even asking!) people who may disagree with you not to respond to your opinions (but begin their own threads), you are exhibiting a closed mind, not amenable to learning from others and not amenable to growing... is that really what you want for yourself- a closed and static mentality? How sad!

"I don't see why us herbalism people can't do our herbal things and the medical people do theirs"

This is an exclusionary view of herbalism - that it should be apart from, and antagonistic to mainstream, evidence-based medicine. On the contrary, many people practicing and studying herbalism believe it should be complementary to mainstream medicine, so that people can enjoy the best of both worlds.

"If herbalism was doing any real harm. Would not the Medical industry outlaw herbal use."

The "medical industry" (whatever that is) has no power to do anything like this, assuming it would want to. The supplement industry used its lobbying power to create DSHEA, the law banning effective regulation of "dietary supplements". It has big-time friends in Congress like Senators Orrin Hatch (whose son made large sums of money as an industry lobbyist) and Tom Harkin. What individual physicians and health groups can and should do is educate the public on the benefits and risks of herbs and supplements (including the risks of abandoning proven therapy for treatments of unknown benefit or outright quackery). Individual herbs causing damage to health and/or having potential for abuse (i.e. ma huang and aristolochia) have been pulled off the shelves, but for the most part the supplement industry has been left to police itself. And we know how well that works, especially with imports of unknown quality and safety coming into the marketplace.

I'm sure shamans get along with their patients better than some doctors. And we could learn from certain aspects of that relationship. We also have to ask what goals we have from seeking health care and how they should be prioritized.

Here is a link that might be useful: Fostering a good doctor-patient relationship

Thank you for responding.I apoligise for asking not to get a medical opinion response. It was truely very sweet of you to point that out.
Are you very sure the goverment has our best interest at heart? Some how that point seems to escape me as i read the news and watch c-span.: )
Oh which government were you refering to US or Canada? Tho they're both probably similar.
The med lobby has done something about coke and maryjane. They have taken the problem and pushed it off on the prison system, (Which is also now a privately owned business)thus we taxpayers can pay for them. The USA has the largest prison-jail population in the world.bar none. Most of the prisoners are drug offenders and the mentally ill. Can you imagine a schizaphrenic individual arrested for loitering.Not knowing what was going on because of inherited genitic chemical imbalence,unable to help himself, screams in his cell. The police response is to drag him and tie him down and point a high pressure water hose on him. When he should have been in a medical hospital being treated for a disease he did'nt ask for nor wanted.But mental illness is a hard and arduoas time consuming treatment, thus the medical industry and insurance industry will not address it. Better to treat them as crimnals. Lucy, Have you considered that just maybe all the people who have been shot by these random shooters could have been prevented by an adequate medical system? I wonder about it. specially since a couple of them went to mental health facilities for help and received none. But it is so much easier to blame a gun than to try to change a medical mental health attidude.That is really sad lucy and i feel like you are warm hearted enough to at least partly agree.

As to misguided and lack of education people cannot be left to their own devices when it comes to treating children. In some respects i agree.However Neither herbalism nor medicine can brag too much. Need i mention exorcism against herbalism and the star whose baby twins were given a mega dose of heparin. All nurses are trained to check and double check every med given. Why did'nt they. Could it possibly be because they were understaffed and overworked.Because Medical Industry will not pay for adequate staff so it don't cut into their profits.: ) Just a theory of mine.

lucy, please take this in a good way. It really does offend me to hear someone talk about anyone as uneducated. I have never really come across anyone who i considred uneducated. I like to say they may not have book learning but they sure have comman sense. Einstein has a quote on that subject that i'll try to look up for you. Openmindedness does not preclude a requirement for education tho it helps.LOL There are just as many well educated people out there who don't have a lick of comman sense and does as much harm as any socalled uneducated people do. The Nazis tried to protect people from themselves and others. Thank heavens they were stopped. What if they had'nt been?

On another subject- lucy, i've noticed you mentioned children being hurt by herbalism. several times. I've wondered if you've had or someone close to you have had a traumatic experience with herbalsm.If you have would you be willing to share with us.: )

Well i'm too tired to go on right now so i'll address eric tonight. You know i've got lots to say. LOL
oakleif

Hey, I'm almost starting to like talking to you Oaklief :-)! Thank you for not flaming here all over the place and trying to address points in a coherent way. I'm sorry you're offended by the 'uneducated' thing, but it's just what I meant - I don't mean 'stupid', low IQ, or anything else. Education can come from different places and once you're a certain age, it's up to you to decide if you want more or not - it's not something that "happens" to you - you choose it to a large extent and either take advantage of it or not. I totally agree that plenty of 'educated' people are dumb, with no sense whatsoever! No, I don't know (personally) any kids who've been hurt by herbalism, but I just get crazy when it comes to kids as far as they're being at the mercy of crazy adults - most of the time the parents (who are at the mercy of their own misguided ideas). I'm quite happy to help adults if they want or need it in any respect, but they have the ability to ask for it, know how to learn things and can choose what they want... children do not, and I just have no patience with people who use their kids like some experiment without really knowing what they're doing. See ya...

I hear you on going crazy over kids being at the mercy of crazy adults dang! here in the states its becoming an epidemic.In every way shape and form. As far as herbalism. What can we do? Rant?Turns them off to us? Rationalize? Falls on deaf ears. Report parents? Not against the law-usually. This is something that shamans could handle well or a pastor,Rabbi, whatever because where there is faith in a higher power. People trust and listen to the agents of their faith. Westeners no longer beleive in anything not even themselves. So everyone goes wildly their own way in total chaos. A good example is the laws of Moses.Wether they come from God or man.Look at the comman sense that saved the jews in a time when no one had a clue about hygene, but the jews were told to wash everyday,wash before eating etc.They obeyed these laws because they beleived it came from God. They would'nt have beleived that Moses alone could tell them how to live.

I love science dearly. But science offers no comfort and belief system that can bring people together. To teach one has to have someone to have faith that the teacher knows of what he-she says.Thats why i think one of the reasons harbalism is drawing so many people.They have learned science does'nt have all the answers. Neither does herbalism.But it is kinder to the populace and they feel they have more controll thus more faith. Plus it don't cost so much. LOL

I guess i'm a firm beleiver in, i am my poorer brothers keeper.How can kids today become educated when so many parents have totally lost it. I also think there are many people who cannot learn. ; ) be it mental illness, low IQ,and misguided adults brought up by their misguided parents and know no better.lucy, There really are people who don't have a clue about anything of this world except what they're fed on TV. That is their reality. How do we get through to them? Others who are poor and have been left out of our social structure. And do not trust anyone not of their own class. One can't teach them anything unless we can come down to their level and not judge but see to their basic needs as we teach. And heaven help us theres the mentally ill. We have failed them so badly.They need love, self assurance, taught to care about themselves and put on meds and seen to that they take their meds till they're well enough to help themselves, only then can they be taught anything.There are so many who are afraid to ask for help because they have been abused in one way or other when they asked for help since they were born. There's a big need out there.If i can help myself as well as some one else, What more can i ask.
take care
oakleif

Oakleif, welcome to the Revolution. Your eyes are open and your head is on straight. You are not part of the SHEEPLE. It's nice to see our numbers growing.

This government at the highest levels has NO interest in it's population except for it's money. It's nice to hear from others that can see through the BS.

I'm still trying to figure why there are so many "Big Pharma" representatives on an herbal website, got any clues?

Well, brendan said we were all supposed to be getting $50,000 a year. Promises, promises.

I'll just have to stick around for the good times and cordial company.

"You are not part of the SHEEPLE."

Baaaa, humbug. ;)

Oaklief, great site I'll spend more time there later. Large membership.

My! MY! How predictions can come true. Better prepare for the long haul. I have been for months.
Country folk will survive. I'm feelng for you.Good Luck