Evidence is mixed on whether vinegar has significant health benefits. For example, there's a possibility that daily ingestion of vinegar might aid in weight loss (but a study cited in support of this was done in mice, which are a wee bit different from humans).
And while vinegar has been touted for anti-diabetes effects, a recent study found that it did not improve oral glucose tolerance in type II diabetics.

As part of an overall health diet with sufficient exercise, vinegar (the ordinary household type) is fine (though shot glasses full of it sound blech - it'd be tastier with salad). But don't expect it to be the cure-all some believe, or that it's a miracle supplement that will have you living to 95.

Eric:

I can only add that IF a person uses vinegar, after 3-5 days they should take a break. 3-5 days of anything is a mean average that I've found is a good, safe time frame.

The best determining factor I've found for when to take or NOT take vinegar is to listen to your taste buds. If you find that the vinegar really "hits the spot" (taste-wise) for a few days, but then starts to be a real turn-off, then stop taking it. Common sense! (Where can I buy some common sense, you may ask!)

On the other hand, if you start with vinegar and you just can't stand it . . . , then don't take it. It's your body's way of telling you that it may not be good for your particular, physical make-up.

HerbDoctor

the sour flavor in general increases the tone of tissues and prevents fluid leakages (so it preserves fluids)....ie, tissues become less flaccid and retain water. this action is helpful to some folks, detrimental to others. ACV is especially problematic for those with rheumatic/arthritic conditions, these clients report a worsening of symptoms when using apple cider vinegar on a regular basis.

herb doctor's admonition to listen to your body about such things is right on imo

If sour flavor increased tissue tone, lemon juice producers would be making a fortune selling anti-aging products.

It's intriguing though to hear that apple cider vinegar supposedly worsens arthritis symptoms, seeing that ACV enthusiasts claim exactly the opposite.

The truth of the matter lies in the middle - ACV is inert when it comes to arthritis. The Arthritis Foundation has a good article on food myths. In addition to ACV mythology, it debunks claims that tomatoes and other nightshade family vegetables are bad for arthritis sufferers (false - tomatoes contain lutein, which might actually be beneficial) and advice to abstain from citrus fruits (also wrong, seeing that vitamin C likely has a mild protective effect in arthritis).

granny always said that if you wanna know how ignorant someone is just wait a minute and they'll tell you.

granny was always right.

Eric, I think you may have misunderstood. Kaliaman, correct me if I'm wrong, but weren't you referring to, for instance, schizandra berries and other astringing, sour herbs? (That's just a "for instance.") Even though Kaliaman talked a little in general, it's none-the-less true.

For anybody else who's interested in more information on therapeutic properties of herbs according to taste qualities, you can look up taste preferences of individuals based on their constitution according to the 5-phase theory. Though not exactly connected to the above topic, it's still interesting subject if you want to learn about the science of Chinese herbology.

HerbDoctor

It'd be intriguing to hear how "sourness" could possibly have a tissue-firming effect.

Sourness is basically a taste sensation that detects acidity.

Acidity does not make tissue firmer. And in any case, you can't acidify your body's pH through foods or supplements, since normal homeostatic mechanisms maintain pH in a very narrow range to allow biochemical reactions to take place.

Further explanation here.

My husband sipped on this drink all day with a little cayenne pepper added and lost weight. Howard Stern's sidekick Robin lost a ton of weight on it. Anybody use this method?

Eric:

Do you wish to re-word your statement "Sourness is basically a taste sensation that detects acidity"? Sourness can't detect anything. It's a taste quality, not a procedure.

Do you have any scientific evidence to back your claim above?

Thank you.

HerbDoctor

yes herb doctor, i was generalizing to relate to this audience but referring to sour flavored food and herbs having these properties....this has been known and systematized in the east for millenia. flavor/taste forms the basis of medicinal herb classification in many traditional systems including chinese and ayurvedic herbal medicine. the chinese recognize 5 flavors, ayurveda splits hairs and so recognizes 6.

and yes the sour flavor does have these properties mentioned above. the doubtful rantings of a clueless person won't change that.

I think Eric's just a little sour. (Sorry, Eric about making you the brunt of my pun. I just couldn't resist.)

Kalia, I never studied Ayurvedic much. I can barely get through my studies of Chinese herbology. When it comes down to it, those 5 or 6 tastes pretty much cover about everything we experience in tastes.

HerbDoctor

HerbDoctor

"Do you wish to re-word your statement "Sourness is basically a taste sensation that detects acidity"? Sourness can't detect anything. It's a taste quality, not a procedure."

No, Charlie, I do not. Rather than playing grammar police, do you have anything to back your claims about sourness being therapeutic apart from 'my beliefs are very very old'? More specifically, do you actually think that we can manipulate our body pH to make it more acid (sour)?*

There are elements of "traditional Chinese medicine" that to this day endorse consumption of feces, urine and human body parts for their alleged health benefits. Does the fact that these practices date from ancient times make them valid?**

*this runs counter to the usual alt med belief that acidity=bad, and we're supposed to make our pH more alkaline, which is similarly impossible. These misconceptions can be remedied through a basic (sorry) course in human physiology, reading the link above, or checking out this article.

**"Flying squirrel feces is used to "invigorate" the blood and dry-fried to stop bleeding...The text Chinese Medical Herbology and Pharmacology notes that flying squirrel feces has a "distinct odor" that "may decrease patient compliance" with ingesting it."

It is believed to have uses for amenorrhea, menses pain, postpartum abdominal pain, epigastric pain, and chest pain. It is boiled in a decoction with other herbs prior to ingestion. If it is to be used in a formula to stop bleeding (dark purple uterine bleeding with clots, retained lochia due to stasis), it is dry fried prior to making the decoction. Flying squirrel feces has been associated with typhus fever."

How do your patients out in Glendale feel about squirrel poop remedies? ;)

(Oh, oh. There he goes.)

Eric, I asked you, first, to provide scientific proof for your argument. I beat you to the punch by asking you. You'll have to provide the evidence for your statement first.

What you're talking about is what I call the "filth farmacy (pharmacy)" which refers to remedies in the animal kingdom as opposed to just the herb/plant kingdom. In the context of our various sciences, we all have to be responsible and draw the line somewhere. But the principles of tastes of herbs within the context of Chinese and western herbology are sound science. Compared to the two hundred years of modern medicine, Chinese herbology has about 2-3,000 years of written documentation to back up their science. You'll have to do your own homework. I can't do that for you.

Glendale?? I'm a hundred miles from there. Where did you get Glendale? I live in the mountains. Don't care for the desert heat.

Grammar police? I'm just commenting on your own words. Just think before you type. I think you taught me that!

HerbDoctor

This post was edited by HerbDoctor on Sun, Jul 14, 13 at 9:41

Charlie, no one is required to prove you wrong. In making a claim, you are required to furnish evidence. They probably didn't teach you about logical fallacies at the Minuteman Refinishing School.

"The negative proof fallacy is where one assumes something is true if it cannot be proven false. It can also happen when one assumes that something is false if it cannot be proven true.

An infinite amount of silly statements might be declared and be completely unprovable, hence we cannot assume validity in the face of unprovability. This is what is known as burden of proof."

Eric:

Let's start over instead of trying to cloud the issue with what amounts to nothing more than intellectual babble.

You said "It'd be intriguing to hear how "sourness" could possibly have a tissue-firming effect.
Sourness is basically a taste sensation that detects acidity."

I say . . . Prove it even by your own standards, standards you presented in your previous post. And, by the way, please, PLEASE site information based on your own experience and not merely clicking and pasting on someone else's works. I've always had much more respect for someone who tried and made a mistake than for someone who never tried at all.

Respectfully,

HerbDoctor

"Let's start over instead of trying to cloud the issue"

Hmm, so maybe getting personal is not so much fun when you're on the receiving end?

As always, I suggest discussing herbs and related issues without personal attacks or making a faux issue of another person's language usage.

I repeat - it'd be interesting to hear just how "sourness" could have a tissue-firming effect. I am open to considering evidence on the subject, but it's not my job to prove an illogical assertion wrong (a fallacious demand), but for those who claim such things to marshal the evidence needed to support them.

Another fallacy is the idea that telling an anonymous or semi-anonymous anecdote on the Internet makes it believable - but citing a respected evidence-based authority is unworthy of respect.

Sorry, not buying it, any more than I buy the claim that ancient beliefs must be right because they're ancient.

I think Chinese herbology needed you, Eric, during its infancy just so you could show them the error of their ways.
But you can never be too late.

Eric, have you ever heard of the Wellhausen Theory of Higher Criticism? People who follow it like to intellectualize on matters with the end result of discrediting a particular issue. Problem is, all it would do is tear down and not build up. The old saying "Knowledge puffs up, but love builds up" is quite appropriate with Wellhausen's beliefs. But the flaw was . . . higher criticism makes statements based on an erroneous assumptions. Therefore, the whole theory has to be thrown out.

I noticed that you intellectualize on many matters. But it always tears down instead of contributing upbuilding, wholesome information. Why is that?

HerbDoctor

This post was edited by HerbDoctor on Sun, Jul 14, 13 at 21:13

oh for pete's sake. children, go to your rooms!

bwahahaha

This post was edited by kaliaman on Sat, Jul 27, 13 at 10:02