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Cider Vinegar for weight loss?

Posted by
Jennifer
(jenn_l_h@hotmail.com) on
Fri, Jul 21, 00 at 22:06

I was recently in a health food store and I overheard a conversation regarding the use of cider vinegar tablets to aid weight loss. I remember my grandmother telling me that if you drank a glass of cider vinegar that it would help you lose weight.
Is this true or is this an old wives tale? Are there any side effects to this?


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: Cider Vinegar for weight loss?

Well, yes. If you drink a glass of cider vinegar on a regular basis, you might barf enough to lose some weight. Also, the potential damage to your upper gastrointestinal tract from the acidity might contribute to weight loss. But the bottom line is that vinegar of any kind is not going to have an appreciable effect on your metabolism.


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RE: Cider Vinegar for weight loss?

Prolly depends also on whether or not you're talking 'bout raw vinegar or the pasteurized stuff from the grocery store....

You DO mix it w/water - drinking it straight is what Victorian or Edwardian ladies did to achieve a fashionable 'pallor'.


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RE: Cider Vinegar for weight loss?

  • Posted by
    Traute the BioGardener
    (My Page) on
    Sat, Jul 22, 00 at 21:04

This is a case where more does not mean better. You are not supposed to drink the cider vinegar. You are supposed to sip it, 1 teaspoon of vinegar per glass of water sipped over a period of hours. Take one sip at a time. The enzymes in the raw vinegar improve digestion and prevents food poisoning, even if you eat tainted food. This method also counteracts bladder infections, because it normalizes the pH which causes the infections. If you are new to this method, you may not be able to cure an infection, but a daily sipping will prevent infections. I used to get them all the time and have not had any now for years.

For weight loss, this sipping method is supposed to be accompanied by kelp and vitamin B6. That is what the tablets contain, cider vinegar, kelp, and vitamin B6. It is a method which has been used for decades.


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RE: Cider Vinegar for weight loss?

Organic Apple Cider Vinegar is one of the healthiest things you can take. It not only helps with weight loss but has sooooo many other beneficial qualities to it.

My grandfather has taken 2T of vinegar with 2t of honey his entire life. He is 88, never been on antibiotics or in a hospital. He is incredibly healthy. He has tried for years to get me to take it. Finally, after also reading "Cider Vinegar" by Cyril Scott I decided to do this. You should only use ORGANIC APPLE CIDER VINEGAR with a special ingrediant called the "mother" in it. Store vinegar will not help and can be harmful do to the process they use. The best vinegar I have found at health food stores is Braggs Apple Cider Vineger. They have a webb site I believe. Its not expensive. I have been doing this for 2 years now and have done much research. There are MANY reasons to take it, fountains of health benefits.It is absolutely great for sore throats, sinus, high blood pressure and loosing weight.

I couldnt name all the rememdies this is good for. It cleans the blood, helps with hormone regulating, helps regulate the body's ph, heart burn and dozens of more things. Also great for mosquito bites! The pill form does not work as well do to the fact the body must break down the pill first and by then it has passed the intestines. It is best to take this upon rising, on an empty stomach. Its also great to curb appetite when used with honey. Actually, it is advised to use honey with it.

This is some of what the book "Cider Vinegar" by Cyril Scott. I will paraphrase occasionally.

" Hoeny has more valuable elements than we realize. Hoeny contains many of the B vitamins. B1 which is found in husks of cereal grains, and is therefore lacking in white bread. B2, riboflavin, Vit. C panthothenic acid and many more. "

"Honey pssesses all the elements essential for physical well being. Moreover it retains those elements indefinately, which is more than vegetables and fruits do, which lose theirs in cooking. The minerals in honey are even more important than the vitamins. They comprise ptassium, calcium, mag, iron, copper, chlorine, mang, sulphur, and silica."

"Nor must we forget that honey contains enzymes which aid in digestion. Yet honey itself requires no digestion. "

"In short, honey in its raw form, is a perfect food, it contains no harmful chemicals, truely, it is a food for the gods."

"Taking all this into consideration, two teas. of honey at the least should form part of the daily diet of ailing persons who wish to get well and of all well persons who desire to maintain their health. Honey added to herbal remedies, and vinegar, greatly enhanced their efficacy, as it acted as medium to promote better assimilation. Thus, the action of the ACV can be improved and speeded by the honey. In addition to all the other things it ccomplishes, the ACV and honey combination is in many cases most helpful in promoting sound healthy sleep."

I did not include all the benefits, but hopefully you see the benefits of honey from this little bit.

Just some FYI~


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RE: Cider Vinegar for weight loss?

Gee, Eric, I sure have missed you! How are you doing?


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RE: Cider Vinegar for weight loss?

Happy New Year, Ruth.

I'm full of vim and vinegar (so to speak). ;)


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RE: Cider Vinegar for weight loss?

I dont know about the ads, but Im living proof of some of the benefits. I swear by it for sore throats, arthiritis, and many more. I love it. :)


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RE: Cider Vinegar for weight loss?

If you want some interesting reading on apple cider vinegar and honey and you can get hold of it - the book is 'Folk Medicine by D.C. Jarvis. I bought it many years ago second hand and it has never been far from my side since - and the remedies do work. But always remember regarding natural remedies - they do not always work for everyone.


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can't get organic ACV

  • Posted by
    paulapea
    (My Page) on
    Sat, May 5, 01 at 6:49

If I have no access whatsoever to organic ACV, can I still use the store-bought variety? Will it still achieve the same results?


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RE: Cider Vinegar for weight loss?

PaulaPea,
It's not recommended to take regular store brand vinegar. it's acidity is too high. It needs to have something called the 'mother' in it. Please don't drink the grocery store brand. You can order the stuff off of the net at www.bragg.com.
Hope this helps.
andrea


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RE: Cider Vinegar for weight loss?

  • Posted by
    paulapea
    (My Page) on
    Sun, May 6, 01 at 6:58

Thanks Andrea. The bottle that I have from the store says that it is diluted with water to reduce the acidity. Also, I'm currently living where I cannot order that and receive it without waiting possibly 2-3 months and also paying an arm and a leg for shipping. Will it hurt to use the store bought for just a few weeks until I get moved back home?

Paula


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RE: Cider Vinegar for weight loss?

I followed a plan for the use of apple cider vinegar and honey to lose weight...It worked..I lost nearly 45 pounds, feel better and have improved energy. My grand father always swore by it for arthritis too!!
Gramma Brown


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RE: Cider Vinegar for weight loss?

My grandmother swore by this method, and she never had a weight problem.

And yes there is a way you can use the store bought Cider Vinegar and reap the benifits....I purchased an good organic vinegar, non pasturized a long time ago and it was expensive! I took 1/4 cup of that and put it in a gallon of store vinegar and let it set for about 2 months. The store vinegar then had a good healthy mother growing in it! When I am about 1/2 finished with my gallon of vinegar, I purchase another gallon and add a little of the old vinegar to the new. I use this vinegar to make salad dressing using a good grade olive oil and home grown herbs. I make herbal vinegars. I also drink a little in a cup of water with 1t of honey daily. It does help my arthritis, and it seems to help with colds and asthma. I have yet to loose weight from it..but I have a thyroid problem, and nothing is going to work on me as it should for weight loss. I do know that it helps to improve my overall health and that it gives me an energy boost. I believe that the mother is what causes the benifit, and I drink the mother along with the vinegar.

This will not hurt your stomach, it will actually aid your digestion. It will not make you barf either!! I suggest using the real vinegar, not the pills. If you are going to add something, add a sublingual B complex and a Kelp pill.

Eric, I would like to know upon what you base your opinion about the vinegar. Have you tried it? Do you know of anyone that drinking vinegar has hurt thier stomach of digestive track? I have ulcertative colitis and the vinegar actually helps that condition!!(I had the colitis long before I began drinking vinegar) Just would like to know where you get your facts!!


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RE: Cider Vinegar for weight loss?

What is the difference in Malt Vinegar? I love it on my fish.


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RE: Cider Vinegar for weight loss?

If you are experiencing weight loss, you are "losing" weight not "loosing" weight. I am tired of seeing this spelling error.


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RE: Cider Vinegar for weight loss?

Hello Al, Who do you think spelled losing in error? I ran the entire thread throught spell check and did not see the word losing spelled in error at all.
Since your a tired of spelling errors why did you not notice the other 5 words that were?


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Reminder

Apple Cider works, as it's supposed to - for some people. What a lot of people seem to fail to under stand (some in this forum as well) is that no remedy works the same way for seperate people. 2 seemingly identical people will react differently to the effects of Apple Cider vinegar. The same holds true for those two people and Chemo-Theropy, or Tylenol or anything out there.

My personal experience with Apple Cider? I actually like the taste of Vinegar. At one point I was drinking 6oz every day. Not just Apple Cider either. White, Malt, Red Wine. They are all good :) (taragon is not so good)

While I was drinking these wonderful fluids I was a peasely 115 pounds (my height is 5'9"). Once I stopped drinking Vinegar I gained weight (about 30 pounds - which, coincidently I should be, anyhow). I really don't know if the Vinegar had anything to do with it, but my eating habbits are the same from what I can remember.

My reasons for cutting Vinegar out of my diet? I got married, and while I don't understand it a LOT of people aren't to thrilled when you even open a bottle of vinegar, let alone take several hefty swigs at the dinner table :)

Just remember to keep an open mind and that ACV might actually help someone, if not everyone.

Benjamin


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RE: Cider Vinegar for weight loss?

Ben, the major difference between pharmaceutical drugs and unresearched herbal drugs is that the pharmaceutical drugs cannot be approved if they unpredictably work on an occasional basis. They must show a reliable effect in the great majority of people who take them.

Some herbal medications have been the subject of well-controlled research and also have this track record.
Unfortunately, cider vinegar is not among them.


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RE: Cider Vinegar for weight loss?

My mother has hypertension, and her blood pressure would get dangerously high, She read that a Tbsp. of vinegar a day would help her blood pressure , so she began taking it faithfully everyday, and her blood pressure and cholesterol are near normal levels now. She has been doing this for about a year and a half now

ta
Rhonda


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RE: Cider Vinegar for weight loss?

Our family swears by sipping vinegar in ice cold water for the first signs of viral illnesses such as colds and flu. In reference to the previous post on hypertension remedy,
my question is what are the effects on your ph in long term use?
Thank you


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RE: Cider Vinegar for weight loss?

The body's methods for balancing pH are so efficient that long-term vinegar consumption shouldn't have a significant effect in this regard. You'd pretty much have to inject it intravenously (NOT recommended) to alter body pH. More realistically, gastrointestinal irritation is something that would have to be considered. For example, constant reflux of stomach acid back into the esophagus predisposes you to development of an altered esophageal lining that is more susceptible to cancerous changes ("Barrett's esophagus"). I have not heard that the acid in vinegar can cause this change, but it's another reason for caution.

Undocumented personal testimonials aside, vinegar has not been shown to control hypertension or cholesterol levels.


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RE: Cider Vinegar for weight loss?

Hi. I was curious if ACV can cause bloating, puffiness in the face or water retention?


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RE: Cider Vinegar for weight loss?

I have been very tempted to try the ACV tablets from the nutrition store. I have just started an exercise regime (cardiovascular and light weight-lifting). Has anyone had pretty good results from these two combined???


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RE: Cider Vinegar for weight loss?

The exercise will help with weight loss. The cider vinegar tablets will not. Put the money you would have spent on the tablets in a jar and use it to buy yourself a reward every week if you were good and actually stuck to the exercise schedule.


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RE: Cider Vinegar for weight loss?

Eric apple cider vinegar is not a herbal medication, it is a food. Barb


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RE: Cider Vinegar for weight loss?

Why thank you, Barb. As it happens, I did not say it was an herbal medication. The subject was brought up in the context of herbalism, and I pointed out that cider vinegar does not have the backing of clinical research, which does support the efficacy of some herbal medications.


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RE: Cider Vinegar for weight loss?

Hi all,

I'm new here. My name is Ray. I was just poking around after my dad recommended Dr. Jarvis' potion of vinegar and honey. I don't have much to say about that (I've drank it with him quite a few times, and it doesn't seem to do much), but I want to comment about clinical trials and so forth. (I'm not criticizing he general idea of expecting scientific proof before taking something, especially if it even might be harmful. I'm just giving reasons why that proof might not always be there.)

In order for someone to make health claims about a product they are SELLING, there has to be considerable expensive research done. If that product is a commodity, like the vinegar in this case, there is zero commercial reason to spend that money. Even if vinegar could do some of these things proposed, we'll never see it tested unless we change our laws to somehow give testing some commercial motivation. (I don't know how to do that. I'm not in favor of just letting them make claims, either. I want to see the experiments done and the results published.)

What I can give you for discussion are two examples of cheap commodities that had real health benefits, but also had groups that would be out of business if those benefits became known. In the first, vitamin C was discovered by the Brits during the age of sea exploration. They apparently thought it was better to not let other countries know how to prevent scurvy on ships, and kept it under wraps for a long time. In the second, prenatal fluoride has been known to prevent cavities for about a hundred years, but it is still being fought by the profession that profits from cavities.

The vitamin C story is fabulous and since everyone involved is dead the story can be told. Unfortunately I don't have it handy, but I can give you the references. If someone else doesn't dig it up, maybe I will. The quick (and eloquent) story is told in a book about how some inventions spread quickly and others are somewhat suppressed:

Rogers EM. Diffusion of Innovations, 3rd ed. The Free Press 1983. (Vitamin C - scurvy story on page 7.)

If you want more detail and a much longer version of the vitamin C story, see:

Mosteller F. Innovations and Evaluation. Science 1981; 211:881.

The prenatal fluoride story is very current. It is still unfolding and you can find people today playing the roles. Some of you will get edgy just reading about it, so I don't recommend it for everyone. The part of the story I have here handy is a set of questions I had written for a friend taking a statistics class. (I never did get answers, and would still appreciate them.)

(For more details there's a new book about prenatal fluoride by Dr. FB Glenn: How to have children with perfect teeth. I know they have it at Amazon. Most libraries won't have it, but I think they can get one on interlibrary loan.)

The table below will probably get all screwy, so I apologize in advance. I'll just dump in this Word file and see what happens. Happy reading. Thanks. Ray

Glenn - Stats fun.
First a little background about the general research into prenatal fluoride (PNF). The idea is to start fluoride supplements as soon as the teeth start growing, which is pretty early in pregnancy. There is virtually no reason not to. All of the side effects have been very positive (reducing prematurity, etc.), and the cost is either free (if the fluoride is just another nutrient in vitamin products) or very low ($10 per pregnancy for a separate prescription.)

Basically the dentists have been fighting PNF for years. In 1966, after about a dozen popular prenatal vitamins added fluoride for free, the dentists had it made illegal by the FDA. There were no safety problems, but the dentists said it wasn't proven to help.

The dental lobby has always been able to find some reason to criticize every study on PNF that was ever published. If they accepted ANY benefits at all, they would have to let it be legalized. The point is that there is a lot at stake when the dentists decide whether or not to accept a study. And part of accepting a study is accepting the way the statistics were done.

Below is a quick table of the studies, including the bottom one which is the one the statistics brouhaha is about. (This latest study was designed by the dental lobby themselves, who were probably getting to the point where they could not just keep rejecting studies without doing one correctly.)


Prenatal Fluoride (PNF) Studies

Lead author, journal , citation Number of children in study Age when checked(years) Percent reduction in tooth decay
Feltman J Dent Med 1961 16(4):190-198 228 7 96%
Hoskova Cesk Pediatr 1968 23:438-441 78 4 93%
Kailis Med J Austral 1968 2:1037-1040 50 5 82%
Pritchard Austral Dent J 1969 14:335-338 176 7 70%
Schutzmannsky Dtsch Stomatol 1971 21:122-129 100 9 36%
Percent with no sign of tooth decay
Glenn Am J Obstet Gynecol 1982 143:560-64 117 5 97%
Leverett Caries Res 1997; 31:174-179 398 5 92%

When the last study was first released, it showed some benefits, but not enough for significance. That is when the fun started.

Here's a quote from Dr. Glenn. (She is the strongest proponent of prenatal fluoride and has been criticized the most).

"Even though the PNF was associated with twice the amount of caries reduction that had been calculated as necessary for statistical significance, since there was a relatively limited incidence of caries in either group, the p value was 0.08 rather than the conventional 0.05. Since the exquisite cariostatic effect of F has been universally recognized for over 50 years, a directional hypothesis with a one-tailed test would be more appropriate, and this study would then achieve traditional statistical significance.*

(So C question one for the stats class C is this valid reasoning?)

The dental lobby seems to have thought so. Yikes! So next they changed the data. Here is a quote on that:

The article by Leverett et al [1997], concerning their prenatal fluoride (PNF) trial, reports the mean dfs for the 5 year olds as 0.50 for the controls and 0.45 for the PNFs. Whitford [1992], Glenn et al [1992], and Stephen [1993] have reported these results as 0.55 for the controls and 0.30 for the PNFs, without any comment or correction by Eastman or the National Institute of Dental Research (NIDR). .."Having the PNFs gain 50% more caries while the controls shed 10% of their decay is doubtless the result of using Poisson regression models in Fleiss power calculations." **

(My main statistics question C is the above joke about the Poisson models just what it seems C a jibe that the presence or absence of a disease is not usually affected by how you do the statistics? Or is there a deeper level joke about the statistics? If I understood what Poisson regression models and Fleiss power calculations were, would I get an additional chuckle?)

She goes on further with another set of statistics about the beneficial side effects:

"PNFs had a 16% reduction in prematurity, a slightly longer pregnancy, an increased birth weight (although this was partially hidden by adjusting the weight for the length of pregnancy C definitely a no-no), and 20% more controls had caries than did the PNFs (36/400 vs. 30/398).Although some of the parameters are related, none are related absolutely, therefore the overall superiority of the PNF children is statistically significant with p=0.03.

(Next question for the stats class C can you jump to that p value by just rattling off 4 out of 4?)

* The first quote is from: Glenn FB, Glenn WD, Duncan RC. Letter to the editor. J Dent Res 1992;71:175.

** Glenn FB 1997. Personal correspondence on Leveretts PNF statistics changes.
Cites from within her quote:
Leverett 1997 see in table above
Leverett DH. Clinical trial of the effect of prenatal fluoride supplements in preventing dental caries. NIH-NIDR-NO1-DE-32441; April 1992.
Stephen KW: Systemic fluorides: Drops and tablets. Caries Res 1993;27 (suppl 1):9-15.
Whitford GM: Dietary fluoride supplements , in Workshop on changing patterns of fluoride intake. Chapel Hill, Univ of N Carolina. J Dent Res 1992; 71:1249-1254.
Glenn 1992 is the letter to the editor just above.

Here is a link that might be useful: Fluoride in even earlier pregnancy


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RE: Cider Vinegar for weight loss?

There's no reason for anyone to research and test acv because, being a natural product, they can't patent it. If, however, someone were to make it into a pill somehow (and how natural is that?)then promote it based on the reputation that ACV has earned. These people are no better than scam artists.
there has been some talk about "the mother" - you'll not find her in a pill. Save your money and just buy the real stuff


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RE: Cider Vinegar for weight loss?

Interesting that Dr. Jarvis' name has been mentioned regarding the supposed health benefits of vinegar.

What hasn't been discussed here is the folk (and unfortunately, quack) tradition of regarding vinegar as some sort of cure-all. Here's one link that talks about Dr. Jarvis and his popular book: http://www.acsh.org/publications/priorities/1101/arthritis.html

As for the argument that certain "alternative" remedies remain untested because they are not patentable - this is hard to buy. Wouldn't companies that currently market vinegar want to prove and promote its supposed health benefits so as to dramatically increase sales?

Here is a link that might be useful: vinegar, patents, and health fraud


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RE: Cider Vinegar for weight loss?

Has anyone considered that this column may be tomorrow's "folk medicine" and do you think anyone here has money to gain from contributing ? Jogging-in-a Jug, like the vinegar pills, is a processed product and I imagine these people make a lot of money from the products processed from ACV -


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RE: Cider Vinegar for weight loss?

"...do you think anyone here has money to gain from contributing?"

If you're referring to the National Council Against Health Fraud, they provide information on the website as to their board of directors and aims, including the following statement:

"Other than the common bond among those who believe that medical care should be based on science, NCAHF has no organizational ties to either organized medicine or the pharmaceutical industry. Nor has it ever received financial support from them. In fact, NCAHF is openly critical of the failure of organized medicine to take a more proactive consumer protection role and believes that medical discipline needs strengthening. NCAHF is also very critical of drug companies that market supplements, homeopathic products, and herbal products that are worthless, questionable, and/or unsafe. When pharmaceutical companies have marketed these products deceptively, NCAHF has exposed such activities and incurring the wrath of vitamin trade groups."

On the other hand, if "do you think anyone here has money to gain from contributing" refers to contributors to this forum, I doubt that's true in the case of cider vinegar. There have unfortunately been instances of commercial product promotion here by people affiliated with the company, which is against forum rules. This gives us all the more reason to carefully check out products and websites enthusiastically promoted by individuals who may have a monetary motivation (for instance, franchise sellers).


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RE: Cider Vinegar for weight loss?

I don't know anything about cider vinegar and weight loss, but I have a good friend who swears by it as far as keeping him from catching whatever cold/flu is going around.

He buys it from the health food store, and takes two TBSP a day. He says he's tried to get his wife and kids to try it and they've all turned up their noses. He is never sick. They are always sick. Interesting.


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RE: Cider Vinegar for weight loss? ps to Benjamin

PS: Note to Benjamin Lehman... I don't doubt your story about drinking vinegar, however, why don't you save some wine bottles to put your vinegar in? Who would question your vinegar drinking habit at dinner that way? Further, I'd kind of like to know what would happen if you started drinking it again. Wouldn't you?


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RE: Cider Vinegar for weight loss?

Here is my recipe, mostly adapted from my dad's:

Have a container to pre-mix the honey and vinegar. I use a plastic peanut butter jar. The big opening makes it easy to pour into.

Mark the jar with a magic marker. If you want to go 50-50 (the original from Dr. Jarvis I think), make a "Vinegar second" mark close to full, then half way down make a "Honey first" mark. (You pour the honey in first, then fill with vinegar.) I made mine about a fourth honey. Dad says he started 50-50, and is now about 1/8 honey.

Vinegar: It is supposed to be apple cider vinegar. Apparently 99% of vinegars have labels that LOOK like this but are not quite it. The fake-out is a fine print "flavored". (See the posting above about adding the real vinegar with the mother into the fake stuff and converting it - I haven't tried that. In my store the real one is available and the price is fine.)

I put honey in the microwave to make it pour better.

Daily dose: (My dad does it once a day - I think the original was 3X. I've been doing it at meal times, with the meal. I like the drink.)

My dad's mix: In drinking glass pour about 1/4 cup of the jug mix, then apple juice about 1/4 cup also, then "some" of any other juices that might be around. Then fill the glass with water. Swish it a little and drink it.

I tried about the above amount (by eyeball, about an inch or two in a glass), but it tasted pretty strong, and felt like it would dissolve my teeth. Since I drink it leisurely with a meal, and about twice a day, I mixed mine weaker:

In a tall drinking glass, pour about a 1/2" of the honey-vinegar mix. Then fill with whatever else you would normally drink. My favorite so far is orange juice. Water is fine also.

Benefits? I'm not looking for any in particular. It does seem like my digestion is a little better and cleaner. I'm mostly doing it because my dad has sworn by it for years and years. He is as healthy as a horse, but always was. I've come to like the taste quite a bit. It is a most refreshing drink.

The only negative I can imagine is the acid on my teeth. I had always had trouble with cavities until I started taking fluoride pills. That got it 99% under control. Now I have fluoridated water, and drink tea fairly often, and only take a fluoride pill every few weeks. When I started on the vinegar I upped that to about twice a week just in case.

The pills I use are a high quality calcium and fluoride combo, Monocal. I ask my pharmacist for them, and he just hands them to me.

I'm going to test the vinegar thing for at least a while. I've enjoyed the last two weeks or so on it.

Ray


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RE: Cider Vinegar for weight loss?

anyone heard of a drink that hay mower's used to drink that is made with vinegar? Something like swishel?


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RE: Cider Vinegar for weight loss?

Three quick notes

1. The old word for this kind of drink is switchel, or "hayman's switchel". There are lots of hits on switchel if you want to look for fancier recipes. Many have ginger also.

2. Cavity prevention Here is the winning combo: Get Monocal pills ask your pharmacist, they are sold "behind the counter". These are a calcium-fluoride-phosphorus pill. They taste sorta like bone meal or something. The ticket is to brush your teeth normally after the meal with the vinegar drink. Then, last thing, take a wee nibble off of a pill, like 1/5th. Chew it lightly and leave at least some of it in your mouth. Gotta be good for raising pH in mouth, remineralization of teeth after the acid attack, and maybe raise pH in digestive track a little, too.

3. Honey in microwave I now get / keep my honey in a bottle that is too big for the microwave. Soooo it will pour easily enough at room temp. Then microwave it in the mixing jar before you add the vinegar. It will dissolve much better.


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RE: Cider Vinegar for weight loss?

I'm relatively new here too and the original question was if vinegar to lose weight was a wives tale or if there were any side effects. I don't know if there are side effects or not and some peole claim to have lost weight with vinegar.

However, there are couple of no cost tried and true methods for losing weight. Cut the consumption of overall calories, cut the consumprion of empty calories, (this means push yourself away from the table, forget the junk food-have an apple instead) and get of your butts and excersise consistantly, and working up in difficult or endurance at least 5 days a week. You will lose weight, it doesn't cost a cent, it's not an old wives tale and is backed by scientific studies as being effective.


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RE: Cider Vinegar for weight loss?

Oh, Eric, I couldn't read every single posting here I don't have enough time but we have been here before on this issue (the thread with the gal looking to know why vinegar and some other bulk fiber product should work to reduce weight??) You are intensely against apple cider vinegar and I am going to just flat out ask what is was or what it is that turned you so vehemently against it and what research you have to share regarding the negative implications for using it in any way? I have just spent an hour looking for CLINICAL research on this subject and found nothing but positive results thus far. Lets talk. Raven


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RE: Cider Vinegar for weight loss?

Raven.

I don't have anything particular against cider vinegar. It's just one of a multitude of supplements billed as a wonder cure based on testimonials instead of scientific evidence.

Makers of drugs are required to show through clinical trials that their products are effective before claiming that they are medically effective; they can't get away with demanding that others prove that the drugs don't work. Promoters and marketers of supplements and herbal remedies should live up to the same standards.

Please share any clinical research data you've found that backs up the extravagant claims made for cider vinegar.


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RE: Cider Vinegar for weight loss?

Makes me wonder what in the world you're doing in an herbalism forum???
Among all the things vinegar is touted to be good for, add; ridding Roses of the fungus Black Spot and keeping them healthier than proven chemical remedies. Should rose growers/dieters not try Cider Vinegar because a pharmacutical company hasn't spent a year and a million dollars proving that it works?
Get real.


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RE: Cider Vinegar for weight loss?

Barb, I suggest you look into some books on rational/scientific herbalism, including works by Varro Tyler, a respected herbalist who recognized that bringing herbal remedies into greater prominence requires use of the same scientific methods insisted on for conventional drugs. And you may be interested in trials being performed by the NIH on herbal drugs, which don't require large-scale investments by drug companies.

If we really want to gain acceptance for useful herbs and supplements, we need to weed out the ineffective treatments and quick-buck promoters.

Trying a vinegar solution on roses is one thing*, but chugging it or taking vinegar pills in hopes of weight loss while neglecting exercise and sensible diet is potentially harmful.

*you might want to look into baking soda-based sprays for combatting fungal disease in roses. The organic rose growing forum is one source of information.


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RE: Cider Vinegar for weight loss?

It sure seems to me that Eric is a bit antagonistic in his posts. I've noticed him adding not-so-subtle and inaccurate nuances in re-stating others' opinions and thoughts.

I'm watching to see if anyone has any more interest, much less luck in getting him to discuss the issue calmly and objectively.

And I'm really curious as to how he manages to have so many sign-ons here. Thought we were supposed to limit ourselves to one...?

(Oh, wait a sec, the popcorn's just finished! ;-)


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RE: Cider Vinegar for weight loss?

breathe, regarding objectivity and accuracy: I've invited those who claim benefits for cider vinegar to post evidence of research studies backing up those claims. I have managed to state my opinion here without generating unfounded innuendo about those who disagree with me. I encourage you to do the same.

I'm not sure what you mean by multiple sign-ons. You can certainly post more than once to the same discussion using the same subject line, though if you attempt multiple responses in a short time period you'll be prompted to change the subject line. Nothing sinister about it. ;)


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RE: Cider Vinegar for weight loss?

I was told by a friend that taking the ACV would help with my severe migraines I have them at least three times a week if not more for years now. Since I have started which has been around five days I haven't had one. I relize this is a short amount of time but with my regular diet I have also lost 5lbs in 5 days. I am interested if anyone who has taking the pills or the AVC liquid could tell me what benefits they have had and including weight loss I am new to this and have heard of rave reviews from weightloss, headaches and such. Is it better to take the pills or the liquid? I am on the pills for now. Plese anyone e-mail me with your stories IF YOU USE IT I am not interested in anyones opinion I want to know If you use it and how and what it's done. thank you for your time deedahx8@aol.com


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RE: Cider Vinegar for weight loss?

Hi, my name is Sara and I've read all the forums so far and realized that the old wives tales do work better than this new technology of pill forms. I've tried the vinegar pills for 5 months and it never really took affect and if it did I never felt the changes in my system. On the other hand I've been on the real ACV/Honey for the last 2 days and feel a huge difference. Example: My hair feels and looks healthier, my skin has improved because it was always dull and dry, my sinus headaches are not as bothersome as they were before, and over all I feel so much better. My brother-in-law told me about this for weight loss and I wanted to try it, because he has been on it and lost 25lbs. in 3 weeks and believe me I seen his results. It does work. I asked him was there any special diet along with that and his comments were he could eat anything he wanted. So don't let anyone kid you not about the old wives tales because they do work!


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RE: Cider Vinegar for weight loss?

Thomas Edison said "There is no substitute for hard work". The truth is that the only way to lose "good" weight, (weight that will stay off for more than a week or two), is to lower your caloric intake and increase your energy output. It is that simple. I have struggled with my weight most of my adult life and I was alcoholic for last seven years. I gained 70 lbs in my addiction. I have been sober for 15 months and have lost 50 lbs. I have tried all of the so called "quick diets" with potions and pills and some of the "restricted food" diet's such as Atkin's and the grapefruit diet. Where some of these were effective for losing some weight, it came back rather quickly when eating even limited quantities of "regular" foods. A lot of the weight lost on these "super, no exercise, eat all the bacon fat you want" diets is water that has been stored as a result of too much caffeine, sodium, and saturated fat. I am not saying that you cannot lose weight without working out. Diets such as Nutrisystem, Jenny Craig, or Weight Watchers do work better. The advantage of these Jenny Craig /Nutrisystem diets is that you are eating real food. May not taste great or be in large quantities, but too much food and great tasting fatty stuff is what made us overweight to begin with. (I know, some people have conditions). Safe, effective, long term, something to scream about, weight loss occurs with 1/12 to 2 lbs a week. (First week is always a little more, the water thing again.) And to keep it off requires that the body to not get sedentary. You don't have to be Charles Atlas, but some walking, biking, swimming, or some sport, is not too much to ask for most of us. Let's face it. Americans expect a pill to cure all of our woes, but the fact is dieting is hard work. Alcoholics say "50 miles into the woods and 50 miles out" when trying to get our lives back in order in recovery. The same goes for dieting. It took a long time to create that spare tire or set of Jell-O thighs. It is not going to go away in a week. Dieting is not, and never truly is, easy. That's why I was quoting Thomas Edison. Hard work, but your body will love you for it.

As far as the folk remedies, I have never tried vinegar. I have Crohn's disease so I would have to talk to my doctor before taking any vinegar. I have, in the past, used folk remedies that really did work. I know why they call them folk remedies, but some of them could probably give these greedy pharmaceutical companies a run for there money


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RE: Cider Vinegar for weight loss?

REALLY.... IS THERE ANYONE WHO CAN TESTIFY THAT THIS HAS WORKED? I NEED A PERSONAL TESTIMONY!!!!!!!!!!!!


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RE: Cider Vinegar for weight loss?

Here is a personal testimonial... On New Years I couldn't
fit into my suit pants (36 waist) because of my Christmas
belly... I was 230 lbs. the most I've ever weighed. My self
esteem was down and I felt FAT. I'm not as active physically
as I used to be and I could hardly bend over to tie my shoes. I am not a dieter and don't pack lunches. In four weeks I lost 20lbs. and my goal is another 10 lbs. I have not changed my life style but I have changed habits. I take
one apple cider vinegar every morning and a men's power vitamin. I do not eat past 7:00 pm and I eat til I'm satisfied not full. I am feeling more energetic and healthier than I have for years. All I can say is that these
changes I've made work for me. Please no negative rebutals.
Frodo


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RE: Cider Vinegar for weight loss?

I'm not a big fan of prescription drugs. Many, such as antibiotics, do have value, but others are quite overused. They also tend to treat the symptom without addressing the "why" of the problem. The "independant research" that is done on a drug, is done by a third party who is FUNDED by the drug company. I'll trust my health with the "folk cures" that have been handed down for generations, because they work, before I trust most drugs. Just my two cents. :)


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RE: Cider Vinegar for weight loss?

I would just like to say that everyone seems to be a bit hard on Eric...He is just voicing his opinion and he has every right to do that...I have heard many things about ACV and checked here before I started trying it for weight loss and I am now glad I did...He said a lot of things that I never really considered before and everyone that has said they lost wieght with ACV has also said they have changed their eating habits in someway also so who is to say what is causing the weight loss...
I would just like to say if you think it is working for you then that is great keep it up...But dont judge someone else for having a different view about what is causing the change...
I am glad that I made the choice to check things our first before I started anything...I am not saying I wont try it or will but am still looking into it...
Hopefully everyone gets good results from there use of ACV regardless of what they are using it for...


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RE: Cider Vinegar for weight loss?

You know, I BELIEVE in herbs...I really do! But I think that the only true way to lose weight and be HEALTHY is to exercise and eat right... I never understood people's need for a quick fix. Anything of value comes with work, and I know, probably more than a LOT of people how much work exercise is...but truly, it is the ONLY way...The best way to lose weight is to get off your behind, go outside and WALK some! sheesh! I have more health problems than 90% of the population (guaranteed!) and I still MAKE myself go out and walk...and because of it, I have never been fat, except from side-affects from medications. You feel better... exercise is a GREAT anti-depressant! Promotes the bodies natural painkillers, and you just feel great... And I don't know about vinegar, but I just can't see how it can top exercise as a way to feel good and look better!
xoxoRobyn who has lived years past the doctors expectations DUE TO EXERCISE!


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RE: Cider Vinegar for weight loss?

Hey Frodo Baggins! Congratulations. I am interested in your program of course without the men's power vitamin. I need something to kick start my weight loss program in combination with my excercise program. I am interested in an update as to how you feel now and if you were able to drop the remaining 10 pds. If you've got the time, I'd appreciate it. Thanks


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RE: Cider Vinegar for weight loss?

cider vinegar on it's own wouldn't help check it out first!


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can any ladies confirm ,,

Hi, i was wondering that does ACV really work?? My sister is desperate to loose weight.So if any1 could tell me about this method it would help.thanx.


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RE: Cider Vinegar for weight loss?

Ssyms , (I think I spelled that right)I would like to know , how much vinegar you use and how much honey? Do you buy yours at the health food store , or do you buy it from the grocery store? What is the MOTHER everyone is talking about?


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RE: Cider Vinegar for weight loss?

Last week I was at a seminar on natural feeding for dogs. I am also on the Atkins diet. My dogs' diet and mine are remarkably similar, except their meat is raw and mine is cooked.

Apple cider vinegar was mentioned. The vet giving the seminar said that ACV as well as lemon juice will effectively reduce the glycemic rate of carbohydrates, keeping them from being absorbed too quickly and then stored as fat. He recommended an organic ACV called Bragg's. I figure if it would work for the dogs, it might help get me out of my current plateau.

ACV alone won't make you lose weight, though. The old "diet and exercise" advice is really the only thing that works.

Tina McG


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RE: Cider Vinegar for weight loss?

Hi there people!
I had no idea a forum about ACV would be in a place about gardening but I'm happy to see this discussion.
A few observations,if I may.

I'm not a big fan of the pills.Doubtless there is some sort of heat used in the manufacture of most of these products,which equates to pasteurization,in my book which is a no-no for quality ACV.I also don't like the pills because there are darn too many people out there marketing promises that they just can't keep,nor don't.Anyone who has had experience with ACV for weight loss knows that it takes 3 weeks(more or less depending) for ACV to "load up" in your body to become useful as a weight loss adjunct.True there are other benefits that kick in more rapidly(like shiny hair,detoxification, and loss of aches and pains etc.) but a lot of people just don't have the patience for the three week cycle-thus,they take the pills for a week,nothing super spectacular happens and they give up.The marketing actually sabotages,in part,peoples ambitions,but,the people are accountable too,because they haven't stuck with it for the minimum amount of time for it to become beneficial.Instant gratification has become the downfall of modern society.We have become a generation of "pill poppers" who believe in most everything we read,hear,or watch on TV.The best way to get ACV in your diet is to USE ACV in it's natural liquid state.It takes a bit of getting used to,I know,but once the benefits kick in,I believe you'll become a life long fan.
And,to the detractors of using ACV for losing weight,I ask you this:Have you ever tried it for yourself or,are you just kicking in with the rest of the naysayers just to be cool?Have you ever given yourself the chance to find out just how wonderful life can be with ACV in your diet?
Give it three weeks and beyond-MAKE A COMMITMENT and you just might surprise yourself!


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acv - the sequel

"We have become a generation of "pill poppers" who believe in most everything we read,hear,or watch on TV."

I'll buy that.


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RE: Cider Vinegar for weight loss?

hi am wanting to lose weight and have heard alot about the vinegar and honey was wondering if works. I have been on slim fast now and i lose and gain and when i gain it is always more than what i have lost. have a order form for apple cider vinegar plus tablets and was wondering if any have tried those. u can reach me throw email, computer is slow and sometimes can't do anything put check emails.
mschvs75long@wmconnect.com


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RE: Cider Vinegar for weight loss?

Can anyone tell me how much ACV is to be consumed per day to promote weight loss? I'm not talking about "pill" form, I'm wanting to know how much of the liquid form is needed per day.


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RE: Cider Vinegar for weight loss?

Well they don't say an apple a day keeps the dr. away for nothing you know?


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RE: Cider Vinegar for weight loss?

My grandmother always told me that vinegar "cleansed" your blood. She used to make us drink pickle juice. Of course, back then, there was no store bought vinegar in her house. She made her own.


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RE: Cider Vinegar for weight loss?

i would also like to know how much you need to drink per day to lose the weight? and does it really work?


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RE: Cider Vinegar for weight loss?

It DOES NOT WORK!

The classic "weight loss" recipe is mix a teaspoon of cidre vinegar in a glass of watre and drink it: one glass before each meal.

NEWS FLASH: plain water will have the same effect.

If there is any effect at all, it's because the water makes you feel a bit full and you eat a bit less, leading to the weigfht loss. Also, many ovreweight people are slightly dehydrated (and paradoxically retain fluids) and it helps them get rid of excess fluids and makes their intestines work better.


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RE: Cider Vinegar for weight loss?

I have used apple cider vinegar tablets to help loose wieght, and I lost 14lbs in one week!!! It also made me feel good and did not make me crave junk food. Apple cider vinegar tablets are also known for helping out with autheritis,pains, slow aging,etc. It did not make me feel sick at all;-)


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RE: Cider Vinegar for weight loss?

Hey I think I will have my hubby try the ACV for his high BP!


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RE: Cider Vinegar for weight loss?

Hello everyone! I am so surprised to see this subject come up as well, but delighted none-the-less. LOL

I drink what is called the "Mother" of all vinegars, or Kombucha Tea. It's a tea that ferments with a mushroom on top. The mushroom that sits atop the tea works symbiotically feeding off the sugar and in turns produces many beneficial viamines, hormones, etc.

Here's an excerpt:
KOMBUCHA, an ancient oriental fermented tea remedy, can be traced back to 414BC. It is known by 60 other names in various parts of the world. Over time it has been consumed by millions including emperors, a czar and even an American President.

The Kombucha mushroom or fungus, is in a gelatinoid membrane form shaped like a flat disk and is a symbriosis of yeast cells and different bacteria. Most researchers agree the culture contains saccharomyces ludwigii, saccharomses apiculatus varieties, bacterium xylinum, bacterium xylinoides, bacterium gluconicum, schizosaccharomyces pombe, acetobacter ketogenum, torula varieties, pichia fermentans and other enzymes.

The culture usually floats on top of sweet black or green tea that is perhaps 50% sweeter and stronger than normal drinking tea. During the fermentation period of 8 to 14 days the culture transforms the tea into a mixture that contains 0.5 to 1.0% alcohol, useful enzymes, glucuronic, lactic, carbonic, oaxaloic, usnic and amino acids. Other products are produced including substances with antibiotic, antiseptic and detoxifying properties. This refreshing microbiological drink also includes B1, B2, B3, B6, B12 and C vitamins. Three 8 ounce glasses a day is generally considered sufficient to produce the desired results.

It is a powerful detoxifier and immune booster. Many experience increased energy levels. Others report improvement in arthritis, migraines, less pains, better digestion, allergy relief, cleansing of the arteries, leveling out of blood pressure and glucose and faster healing. Some also report improved mental health and less anxiety. Many diseases and conditions originate in the bowels and some medical treatments cause the digestive system and bowels to not function properly. Hippocrates is credited with the saying "death sits in our bowels". Kombucha is very beneficial in rebuilding colon flora.

Kombucha is not a cure all but does work at the cellular membrane level to aid the body's systems to return to a more normal state. Any benefit obtained from Kombucha is a result of a system or function whose improvement allows the body to heal itself. Improved immunity and disease resistance is generally attributed to Kombucha's ability to create a hostile environment for pathogens and the strengthening of the body's systems.

Calories in Kombucha are difficult to determine but an average would be 3 grams of simple monosaccharide sugar per 100 grams of liquid. This can increase or decrease depending on many variables including length of fermentation, temperature in room, age of culture etc etc. The tea is not recommended for lactating women.


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RE: Cider Vinegar for weight loss?

"Here's an excerpt:"

An excerpt from what? The package label?

Are there any citations to back up those cure-all claims?

And does it taste good? :)


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RE: Cider Vinegar for weight loss?

It's a synopsis for doctors.lol It's from the website that I ordered my shroom from! ;O) As we are not allowed to give website addresses here, as it's considered advertisement...I didn't place the link. The taste is horrible lol, but with time it's supposed to get better and you up how much you intake. I do get the increased energy level from it, but haven't been taking it long enough to reap the full benefits of drinking the tea. It's said that in China (I beleive), it's custom to give the baby mushroom to a friend as a sign of friendship and for good health. And that's how these are originally supposed to be gained...Not bought. I have an extra one Eric if you'd like me to send it to you so you can give it a try for yourself to see what you think, free of cost to you? I can also include you some directions as well. :O)


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RE: Cider Vinegar for weight loss?

On further review, I think I'll pass on your offer.

There have been a few studies in rats suggesting possible health benefits of Kombucha tea. There are apparently no such studies in humans, though there are reports of liver and other toxicities associated with consumption of the product, which is being marketed via mail order as an immune booster and general health aid.

From a recent scientific journal article written by a complementary medicine specialist:

Forsch Komplementarmed Klass Naturheilkd. 2003 Apr;10(2):85-7. Related Articles, Links

Kombucha: a systematic review of the clinical evidence.

Ernst E.

Complementary Medicine, Peninsula Medical School, Universities of Exeter and Plymouth, UK. Edzard.Ernst@pms.ac.at

AIM: Kombucha has become a popular complementary remedy. The aim of this systematic review was to critically evaluate the evidence related to its efficacy and safety. METHODS: Computerised literature searches were carried out to locate all human medical investigations of kombucha regardless of study design. Data were extracted and validated by the present author and are reported in narrative form. RESULTS: No clinical studies were found relating to the efficacy of this remedy. Several case reports and case series raise doubts about the safety of kombucha. They include suspected liver damage, metabolic acidosis and cutaneous anthrax infections. One fatality is on record. CONCLUSIONS: On the basis of these data it was concluded that the largely undetermined benefits do not outweigh the documented risks of kombucha. It can therefore not be recommended for therapeutic use.

There have also been warnings of Aspergillus contamination of Kombucha tea, which could cause disease fatal to people with suppressed immune systems, and documented cases of cutaneous anthrax in India, again via contamination. One source notes that the original tea recipe contains high levels of caffeine and sugar, which could account for any "energy boost".

Given all of this, I wouldn't be eager to try Kombucha tea, especially an imported product whose purity could not be assured.

Further info is available through a PubMed search.


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RE: Cider Vinegar for weight loss?

Eric, lol...I didn't get mine imported from India! LMAO! I got it from within the United States. I don't think they are contaminated with Aspergillus or anthrax, nor do I believe I will gain liver failure or metabolic acidosis. LOL

Best Wishes,
RE


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RE: Cider Vinegar for weight loss?

Well, if you feel confident about getting quality health care products from some guy in Shreveport who bills himself as "Cajun Ernie", hey, go for it.

I especially enjoyed this passage from his website:

"By the time the tea arrives at its destination it will most likely be a bit strong tasting and most likely would need to be diluted somewhat if intended for human consumption.

Other uses include:

Manufacturing purposes
Veterinarians for pet and livestock treatment
May be used by Spas and Health clubs for therapeutic baths and served to patrons as a pick me up drink after a workout."

Brings back those patent medicine days of yesteryear - "Good for man or beast".

Wonder what "manufacturing purposes" the stuff is intended for.


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RE: Cider Vinegar for weight loss?

Lead induced oxidative stress: beneficial effects of Kombucha tea.

Dipti P, Yogesh B, Kain AK, Pauline T, Anju B, Sairam M, Singh B, Mongia SS, Kumar GI, Selvamurthy W.

Defence Institute of Physiology and Allied Sciences, Lucknow Road, Timarpur, Delhi-110054, India. rnprasad32@hotmail.com

OBJECTIVE: To evaluate the effect of oral administration of Kombucha tea (K-tea) on lead induced oxidative stress. METHODS: Sprague Dawley rats were administered 1 mL of 3.8% lead acetate solution daily alone or in combination with K-tea orally for 45 d, and the antioxidant status and lipid peroxidation were evaluated. RESULTS: Oral administration of lead acetate to rats enhanced lipid peroxidation and release of creatine phosphokinase and decreased levels of reduced glutathione (GSH) and antioxidant enzymes (superoxide dismutase, SOD and glutathione peroxidase, GPx). Lead treatment did not alter humoral immunity, but inhibited DTH response when compared to the control. Lead administration also increased DNA fragmentation in liver. Oral administration of Kombucha tea to rats exposed to lead decreased lipid peroxidation and DNA damage with a concomitant increase in the reduced glutathione level and GPx activity. Kombucha tea supplementation relieved the lead induced immunosuppression to appreciable levels. CONCLUSION: The results suggest that K-tea has potent antioxidant and immunomodulating properties.


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RE: Cider Vinegar for weight loss?

From my earlier post: "There have been a few studies in rats suggesting possible health benefits of Kombucha tea. There are apparently no such studies in humans, though there are reports of liver and other toxicities associated with consumption of the product, which is being marketed via mail order as an immune booster and general health aid."

Lots of drugs show promise in tissue culture or rodent studies, but never enter general use because they are ineffective in humans and/or too toxic.
Anytime one sees a drug being marketed as providing miraculous results for an extremely wide range of diseases - preventing cancer, relieving pain, "clearing out" the arteries, restoring immune function, improving libido etc., and all without any side effects whatsoever, warning bells should go off - con men are on the loose.


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RE: Cider Vinegar for weight loss?

yes. vinegar works well but add a garlik and 1 table spoon honey in 1 table spoon of vineger.

thats work well for slimming because decreases cholesterol level and also great for joints and heart.


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RE: Cider Vinegar for weight loss?

I have just recently started sipping 2 Tbls. ACV (Braggs, with mother) along with 2 Tsp. raw honey in 2 Tbls. hot water. I sip it through a straw to protect my teeth. Within ONE week, I lost 5 lbs. without doing ANYTHING else. I decided to try ACV with honey because I heard it helps with sinusitis, which I suffer from all winter long (which is LONG in Rhode Island!). Losing the weight has been a welcomed side benefit! I would strongly recommend using only ACV with mother, as the pill form is obviously not a natural way to ingest this product, and the kind sold in grocery stores is too high in acidity and should NOT be taken in. Also, my Aunt (who was extremely healthy all her life) swore by this remedy, as others have mentioned. At first, I shuddered at the taste, but then realized that only the first sip is difficult. After that, I actually like it! It definitely gives me energy, so I have it at mid-afternoon as a pick-me-up. Happy sipping!


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RE: Cider Vinegar for weight loss?

I just read through all these posts. Since Apple Cider Vinegar diluted in a glass of water won't kill anyone, won't even harm anyone-go for it. Give it a try. See if it works for you. If it doesn't, try something else. Then, move on to something important in life. Help your neighbor, donate to a reputable charity, commit a random act of kindness. Peace out.


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RE: Cider Vinegar for weight loss?

"I just read through all these posts."

But think of all the time spent that could have been used for random acts of kindness! ;)


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RE: Cider Vinegar for weight loss?

Hey There,

I have been taking ACV for about 2 years now and have lost over 50 lbs and I am back to my ideal weight for my body type (which is about 125). My skin is always very soft and blemish free (I had acne problems that stopped the first week I took ACV), I have more energy, and over all feel and look better. ACV contains cholesterol-reducing pectin and the perfect balance of 19 minerals, including potassium, phosphorus, chlorine, sodium, magnesium, calcium, sulfur, iron, fluorine and silicon. In fact, apple cider vinegar contains 93 different components that can help you body. It is scientifically proven that all these components that make up ACV have positive effects on your body. Plus I am proof of this. I definitely wont stop taking it and I know many friends who swear by it, including one that has lost about 60 lbs in 60 days. We take the bragg brand and never have taken the pills but I don't recommend them since I believe the liquid is much easier for your body to break down.
Anyway I hope this helps,
Audra


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spam from Bragg?

But did it improve mental alertness and make your teeth whiter? ;)

That's two endorsements for the same product in the last week and a half - both from newly registered posters.


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RE: Cider Vinegar for weight loss?

Is it true that I should not drink the 2 Tbls straight and then follow with a teaspoon of raw honey.....would it not work as well? Im doing it for health benefits.

Does it work better to mix with water? What if I drink a glass of water afterwards and rince my teeth with water too and then brush so as not to rub the vinegar into my teeth more?

I appreciate any help you can give me, thanks Sandra


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RE: Cider Vinegar for weight loss?

hi,

can someone point me to the discussion on why avc works? i have tried really hard to find it with no results.

by the way my story is that i have reflux that i take a 20mg prisolec for everyday. i didn't like the idea of inhibiting pump receptors and also the fact that there is no long term studies really of the effects of these pills.

so i started searching until i found references to AVC. i was hesistant to take something that was acidic for my reflux but finally said what the heck. i did and amazingly it works. i am taking the supermarket brand that says diluted to 5 percent acidity. it's now been a week since i stopped the pills and no reflux. now to find something for my gastritis.

2 side effects of AVC that i must warn about. i used to have a problem with gall bladder stones so i am very familiar with the symptoms. i had my gall bladder removed 2-3 months ago and it was the best thing i could have done. anyway, drinking avc seems to stimulate bile production because i get a tiny little pain in the area where my gall bladder used to be. i am thinking the bile duct is probably contracting. so if you suffer from gall stones, i would think twice about using this. it might make you flush them out and there is the risk of one getting stuck in the bile duct. if you really want to flush out stones, i recommend you research a special diet that softens them up, and then try to flush them out.

the 2nd side effect is due to perspiration. i went to the gym to run my usual 8 miles on the treadmill and by the 3rd mile i was smelling a powerful unpleasant odor. i thought someone wasn't using deodarant. it finally dawned on me, that it was coming from me!!!!! I sweat a lot when I exercise and my shirt gets soaked. Apparently my perspiration concentrated like that was mixed with the vinegar and didn't smell good at all!!!!!

thxs.


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RE: Cider Vinegar for weight loss?

Hello, new to this site, and saw this thread. I drink ACV mixed w/ water and have seen great results with nails, hair and skin, not much with weight loss, though. I used to mix with honey but after the first day I would get sinusitis like symptoms. This happens every time I start using the honey mixture. I'm wondering if maybe I'm allergic to honey?? Wondering if anyone else has had a similar reaction?


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RE: Cider Vinegar for weight loss?

Hi - Does anyone else find it fascinating/interesting that this thread has continued for over 5 years? I'd love to hear thoughts about why it seems to be so enduring...


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RE: Cider Vinegar for weight loss?

because so many people want a miracle cure... they probably look up "weight loss" and come on this thread. What I'd like to know is, if apple cider vinegar works, why not just apple cider? vinegar is just fermented apple cider, is it the mother of vinegar? and in that case, then ALL vinegars should work!
There's always the placebo effect... if you think it will work, it will!


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RE: Cider Vinegar for weight loss?

As to why the thread has continued for so long:

Cider vinegar, particularly after its revival as a folk remedy decades ago by "Dr." Jarvis, has been touted as a cure for practically everything. Once weight loss got added to the miracle cure list, it's natural people would wonder about it, especially when supplement companies have picked up on it and started selling their own "exclusive" tablets and formulations.

Some of those same dealers apparently have been spamming this thread, which keeps it alive.

heathen is right about Internet searches likely leading to this discussion, and the role of the placebo effect.
The problem with placebo effect is that it takes place only in a small minority of users, and tends not to be long-lasting. Once people gain back weight which they lost, they tend to blame themselves rather than whatever popular diet or bogus drug they took, and we don't hear back from them.


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RE: Cider Vinegar for weight loss?

...I am on day 30 of the "Master Cleanser" I have lost 31 lbs, it has been no problem, and I have had plenty of energy. I have read and researched many things on the internet, and have consulted with physicians,nutritionalists, etc. I have done plenty of reading and can say that there are many amazing benefits to many things that we have in nature and that eating organic and using unpasturised foods is going to benefit us all in the long run..Do take the time to research and, why not take your own experiments!?..plenty of people do!..weight loss is the whole point of this thread, and I can recommend that you get the book (about 6 bucks) from your local health food store and give it a read...

I have this to add however, I would not recommend the use of honey as it is a predigested animal byproduct, and is only slightly healthier than sugar..in other words it is still bad.. I would use Maple syrup instead, Organic of course, and number 2 grade (second run) as it is a balanced sugar..read Stanley Burroughs and you will understand!..

I intend to be on the cleanse for 45 days, as I have done it before. The reasons are related to the last 5 years of my life, and not eating properly. I intend at 43 years old now to start eating properly, and consume more healthy oils that contain Omega 3 etc ie. salmon oil,flax seed oil, hemp seed oil, and many other great oils, and as one might guess making salad dressings with these oils, that is why I will indeed use natural organic vinegar to add. I am sure that this will be beneficial any way you slice it!...and by eating more greens...well Gee do you think! lol.. If you made it this far in the thread, good for you! and good healtrh to you all! stay healthy.eat lots of fruit and nuts,read more, ..and stop eating OVERATED MEAT !..
Peace from Vancouver Canada


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RE: Cider Vinegar for weight loss?

There are hazards associated with being a guinea pig in experiments with unpasteurized foods.

Severe illness and deaths in children have also been associated with drinking unpasteurized fruit juice.

You get no greater nutritional benefit, but a heightened risk of bacterial contamination.


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RE: Cider Vinegar for weight loss?

..Oh dear Eric ...yes the APPLE JUICE story!..we all read it and or heard about it in Seattle!..I am trying make a point and it has been of course turned into the comments that you have made...I sincerely doubt that using the ACV in it's form as mentioned in many of the statements is going to do any harm in it's unpasteurized state. What about wine?.. I suppose you would not consider drinking it as surely there might be some ill cause!..The link that you included relates to milk, which if you did any valid research is something that is not good for you for many reasons! again do some reading/research on Mucoids etc..etc. only during infancy is the human body able to process it's benefits. Use common sense for the sake of unpasteurized foods..think about raw foods, is what I mean before you open up that can of Campbell's slop!..lol

Bactrial Contamination!...yes scary words indeed, we are so over stressed about bacteria that we have soaps, sprays and everything else we can get our hands on to rid ourselves of this deadly threat..Our society is now having to take More drugs with every day that passes due to Super Bacteria, and Super Viruses that grow and mutate at every turn!..
People have been on this planet for quiet some time now, and made many mistakes, they have also discovered many great things as well.....Think about the people who sat down and decided to pick the cherry pits out of a monkey feces, crush the pits, and pour hot water over them and drink that!...Yes coffee!..hah!..the most expensive at that!..lol

Again whaen it comes to pasteurized products, choose the ones that have been reserched and proven to be beneficial. certainly there are things that are not , and they are, yes I suppose in some ways a potential threat to one. Again the more you read the more you know!..or hope you can know, as not all we read is true!

..The benefits of microflora and many other things are lost in the pasteurizing process of vegetables..and these are a greater nutritional benefit!

There are many bacteria and other good things in the body and I am sure you eat foods that contain bacteria all the time...cheese?..what about fungus?..mushrooms anyone?

The real point of this thread was to do with weight loss, and that is why I posted My answer to that, which was to read the book on the Master Cleanser, and go from there!..as I mentioned I see no harm in using the ACV mixed with the various oils to make delicious and healthy unpasteurized salad dressings, to go on a nice healthy plate of Organic vegetables and be eaten on a daily basis..I guarantee that you will be eating a nutritional and healthy meal in doing so, and if done on a daily basis you might even loose some weight....

Or.. you can keep drinking milk, eating cheese, and have that steak!..don't call me when you get sick!...lol

....MODERATION....

We often wait too long to find out what made us unhealthy, and sick..

P.S. don't drink the juice!...eat the fruit...get it!
Almond milk, and coconut milk instead..


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RE: Cider Vinegar for weight loss?

I don't understand why people can't just eat right and exercise... why does there always need to be some miracle cure.... people just CAN'T do it the hard way? That's why it never works permanently... no one wants to change their lifestyle...
People'll try fasts, cleansings and what have you... but until you eat right and exercise, yer just gonna gain it all back.


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RE: Cider Vinegar for weight loss?

I'd certainly agree about eating more fresh vegetables and fruit. And vinegar of various kinds helps make a good salad dressing.
And to take the liberty of repeating lazygarden's advice in the current thread on cholesterol (since it also applies to weight loss):

Try exercise - a half-hour of brisk walking a day.


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RE: Cider Vinegar for weight loss?

Exactly Right!...I only did the cleanse as it is a tried and proven way to rid the body of toxins and fat in a very fast and effective step , in a very short period of time. And I could not agree more , you must exercise and eat right!

'I don't understand why people can't just eat right and exercise... why does there always need to be some miracle cure.... people just CAN'T do it the hard way?..(from heathen)....perhaps this may help you to understand why at 3 in the morning in the 11th hour of your work day...that Hot Lasagna that just got put on the 'Crafty' table might seem like the right thing to do!

I work in the film industry, long hours and a very bad food environment!...there is 'Craft Service' which is a table set up with all kinds of foods...and it is often too easy during the course of a 15 hour day to walk over and pick up some food/snack that should really not be eaten! Not to mention our catered lunch.. It is way to easy for one to overindulge!...Know any Teamsters?..lol

I walk around the lake that I live around twice a day, however it is hard after the 15 hour day to make room or plan much more exercise than that especially when you add the walk, 15 minutes x 2, half hour plus the actual get up/dressed period and travel, say another half hour!...thats Roughly 16/17 hours of My day!..Sleep anyone!?

I am on day 33 of the master cleanser and my weight is 158..from 190 and I can say that I feel energetic and great!. As I stated before I am looking forward to much more eating right! I have done this to change my life, and I will continue to post here for others to see My long time results ! and perhaps advice/insight..

Keep positive, and take a good look at what you put in your body!

Here is a link that might be useful: iforgotyou.com


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RE: Cider Vinegar for weight loss?

You have to wonder if it wouldn't save a lot of time (and money) to set aside 15 minutes a day for exercise, which in conjunction with a basic lower-calorie diet would help people lose more weight (and keep it off longer) than by performing the mind-boggling array of fasts, "cleanses", "detoxifications" and "flushes" being promoted today.

Here are a few of the players out to convince us of the need to eliminate "toxins" with their products.


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RE: Cider Vinegar for weight loss?

..Let me try this agin!...saving time by setting aside 15 minutes!?...did you read my post?..what spare time ....oh maybe the 15 minutes I allow myself to check my e-mail..!lol...or be on the computer...
YOU on the other hand, have an abundance of time , to post all over this sight, and I am sure others, and are able to exercise , are not overweight , and in perfect health ....do tell !!

MONEY...lets see, lemons, maple syrup, and cayenne...water..yes thats it!...and this costs...well...not that much at all...what money are you sugggesting I save.?

...Why don't you google, The Master Cleanser, and spend some of your spare time reading about it..it's simple, inexpensive, healthy, and it works..It has been around for a long time, and I am proof of the fact that it does work..I am not here to sell anything.
..I am going to continue my walks with my dog, go to Yoga whenever I can, and am going to eat a much healthier diet, calorie reduced of course!..I just wanted to show the you can loose a significant amount of weight in a short period of time, in a healthy way if you need to do so. As far as keeping it off, I have stated my intentions.
If you think that it's Mind-boggling to find "those players" out to convince us of the need to eliminate "toxins" with their products, take a Long hard look at the "Others" that are out ther trying to sell you Vitamins, Herbal supplements, and the like. trying to convince you of the need for these!

..My time for the day is up!.. I have taken the time to post my own personal web site..not that you care!, I am a real person..I would be interested in how healthy you are, and what you eat, as well as how much you exercise, and what you do for work!
You and Heathen 1, have many things to say, and have posted all over the place, I am sure you must have some positive insights and advise to give, other than the obvious, and commonsensical.

You don't have to wonder, you just have to realise, that the "Diet" industry is a Billion dollar industry, and that people are often lazy!


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RE: Cider Vinegar for weight loss?

Well, I posted a huge long post, it disappeared. I talked about how, when I was younger, I worked 60 hour weeks... still jogged 50+ miles a week (this is excessive, I know, but it helped me with the stress) ... course I made a decision in my life that all that stress in my job wasn't worth it...
I don't know what other kind of advice to give. I got a friend of mine to drop 80lbs... it took us a year, and it was a combined effort, AND she lives in Mississippi, the land of fried foods. She had to change her entire outlook on food. She also had a high stress job, and one of the things she did was get another one... that took 2 years. But she has kept the weight off for almost 3 years now... She has tried to get some of her new coworkers to do this strange thing, exercise and eat right, but she says they always have excuses. She says they actually wanted to buy a step machine for the office, while she said why bother? You have 3 flights of stairs to get here, just stop using the elevator! but they refuse.
I mean, I think I am lucky, I am the daughter of a nurse who specialized in nutrition, so I was brought up knowing that soda and chips are not real food. And I know that our culture is one of "Self-spoiling" (treat yourself, buy this)
But really, without changing your outlook on food and what it is, no one will ever lose weight and keep it off, and yo-yo diets will be the death of us.
It is hard for us, who work our behinds off to stay healthy and fit, watch people seek, day in and day out, for miracle diet pills. It tends to give us (or maybe just me) a rather, how shall I say it, unpositive look on people looking for miracles.
I have another friend, granted, she's a bit of an overachiever, but still... takes her new baby with her to the gym! :o)
The problem as I see it is, we've lost the knowledge that nothing of value comes easy.
If you've read my other posts, you'll know the huge health battles I fight all the time... I even have ASTHMA! I still jog... as much as I can.
So anyway, I think this is why maybe it has come accross as cranky or whatever... you make the time for what is important to you...there is no miracle, it's all hard work.... there is no other solution to obesity.


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RE: Cider Vinegar for weight loss?P.S.

I forgot to say, my friend takes her new baby to the gym at 5am in the morning before work.


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RE: Cider Vinegar for weight loss?

..Congrats to the both of you!..keep it up!..
I love the work I do, the 75 hour weeks are tough, I am not stressed, as my job is rewarding in many ways! However it is a bit of a challenge to add more time for exercise, I do get it from my work!..Weekends are used for that as well.

I agree with you on all your points,there are no miracles...just hard work! You did have good fortune from your upbringing!..hey, I am curious! how much Dairy product would you say you consume on a daily/weekly basis ?

Sadly, many of my mornings begin earlier than 5am, so that makes my gym chances slim..lol..good thing I live by a lake!..


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RE: Cider Vinegar for weight loss?

funny how so many people think they know what will work or not work for everyone else. For those of you who think that eating and exercise is the weight loss remedy for everyone...i have to tell you...you are not only wrong but quite self rightous. I for one, ate 100% raw...did strength training 3 days a week..elliptical and hour a day five days a week for 8 months. I lost 4 lbs. I am extremely overweight..not like i only had 4lbs to lose. I have been to an endocrinologist and they say my metabolism is fine.
So my conclusion is that the holistic gurus are correct. It is a mind thing and for some reason after all these years of healing, i still need the fat for protection. If it is a mind thing....maybe it works for those who believe it will.
It would be so nice if everyone would spend their energy figuring out what they need to do to improve their own life and health instead of deciding what others need to do. Maybe if everyone did this, it would change the energy in the world for greater healing for all. How discouraging to come to a sight where one would think people would be more open minded than the general public to find this.


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RE: Cider Vinegar for weight loss?

Well, why, is this mainly an American problem? Obesity is really not found nearly as much where people have to work hard to stay alive. Why not 40 years ago? Why is obesity a fairly new problem? I may be wrong, and closed minded, but I have been around the world a bit, and Americans are KNOWN to be obese... maybe you just need the fat for protection from being American?
My Grandfather ate a doctor's nightmare... artery clogging food from hell,and portion control was unheard of, but he had no running water or electricity and worked on his farm into his 90's. My whole opinion is not what you eat, nearly as much as how much time spent on one's ass.
Tell yourself whatever you want... I used to hear the "slow metabolism" story quite a bit... by people sitting on the couch.
YOu didn't lose much weight, probably because you were gaining muscle! You probably didn't have much before that... muscle weighs more... and like I told my friend who changed her diet and exercised and lost 80lbs, don't get on the scales, measure the inches!
But hey... excuses are excuses... and if I don't buy it, because I am old enough to remember before everyone was obese and before Xbox was invented.....
Sure... have a french fry on me!


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RE: Cider Vinegar for weight loss?

Or maybe i need protection from mean people like you...who have obviously never been in these shoes. Maybe americans tend to be self rightous and mean and people in other countries tend to be more in tune with earth, God and family. And by the way...i am old enough to remember too and old enough to remember when i could eat more healthy and not even exercise and lose weight. I never said anything like..."exercise and diet will work for no one". I'm just sick of people assuming that all i do is sit around and eat and watch TV, cause it works for some. Certainly there are people who sit around and stuff there face and certainly when i was younger i did that and got into this situation but habits can change and body size may not. but you go ahead and continue to put out that negative crap and see where the world goes from here.


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RE: Cider Vinegar for weight loss?

Well, you may call me mean... that may work for you. I just feel that I am so sick of fad diets and people looking for miracle herbs to help with weight loss... I don't feel that my looking at things honestly and saying "Just stop giving yourself excuses" is negative. In fact, the way you seem to have given up seems more negative to me. I am not flaming YOU and calling YOU bad names... I am just tired of so much diet whining... and people diving into low carb diets and such that never work.. getting fatter as the days go on. I have gained weight.. I am normal, BUT I TRY to stay fit, and I tell ya, I have a hell of a lot more health problems than you do, and I don't make exscuses for myself. I have HIV/Hep C, menopause, arthritis and asthma... and I at least try to walk everyday! Sheez! And one of the reasons that I am not obese, in a family that tends to fat anyway, is because I keep trying to get some exercise. I have seen my mother cry, because she is more active than most at her age, and she is still overweight... but she refuses to get more aerobic exercise... so, that's her choice. So, you can know that I come from a family that tends to overweightness.
I was thinking about having my friend who lost 80lbs come in here and testify... she used to call me and tell me that she couldn't give up her chocolate, because she LIKES it... and I would say, okay... but you won't lose weight. I like a lot of things, but doesn't mean I can have all of it. MODERATION. Anyway, she feels the same way I do... all of her obese coworkers who come up with excuses when she and another friend walk during lunch... you make excuses... that's fine, but don't look for a miracle cure to lose weight... there is none... it's just all hard work. So, if this is negative... sure, I'll wave my magic wand, that's probably more positive for you.


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RE: Cider Vinegar for weight loss?

I can see how my words seemed mean to you and i appologize for that. I'm not really into details and maybe i left some important ones out to state my point.
What exactly am i making excuses for? I eat healthier than anyone i know and i exercise daily. I didn't say it can't work for some people i said it doesn't always work and for people to think they know the habits of someone because they are overweight is a societal problem we have that is not always true. I lost 93 lbs in my 20's by exercise and diet....i dont need your friend to give a testimonial..obviously she is one that it worked for. I don't see why you would lie about that. Your friends experience is not in question here.
this time when i gained weight, it wasn't from over eating, it was from a medication i was on and 70lbs packed on in 3 months. More details to make my point...when i went on this strict program to lose the weight...i did already have a lot of muscle. The personal trainer at the gym had to go up from where he started on weights with me by 50lbs in most cases except the preacher curl but that would be amazing for a woman that wasn't a body builder to start out at 90lbs on the preacher curl. I only lost 1.3 % body weight in the eight months and 4lbs.
Again...maybe the holistic gurus are correct and it is more of a mind thing than we like to consider. It might help you to check it out since you have all these problems. I completely healed my arthritis and bone spurrs through emotional healing and breath work. They were ready to cut me open and i wouldn't do it...i found a better way. so, for me i will continue to work on being less sensitive and changing my thought process to overcome this problem of weight. In the mean time if one person changes their judgements on fat people from this post, the world will be a better place for all people to live in harmony.


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RE: Cider Vinegar for weight loss?

I have taken many meds that made me gain a lot of weight, but luckily for me, I got off them. So, I know what you are talking about. You are totally missing my point. I have nothing against fat people. What I have angst about is the fad diet industry that caters to people who don't really want to do the work to diet. I have also seen people who would rather choose to die of AIDS than possibly get a little bit of exercise. Literally, they'd rather die than exercise. You may be one of the few who work hard at it, but not many of the ones in my personal life. There are obviously a lot of people who would do anything to not change their lifestyle, because why would there be so many diet pills advertised on tv?
I use yoga breathing to help me through menopause, and I have used lots of herbs for allergies, asthma and my menopause, but sometimes in some situations, the best thing to do is to try to get at the root of the problem,and for obesity,mostly it is diet and exercise. I see all the time on the news, countries which have been influenced by American diets have started having trouble with obesity. So, you really think an herb will help them? Or breathing?
I even think that just being FIT is better than being thin. The medical industry keeps pounding us with the importance of at least getting 20 minutes of aerobic exercise 3 times a week... and still people can't even do that. So, yes, if someone's obesity is due to bad diet and lack of exercise, and they want to lose weight. The ONLY healthy way to do it and to KEEP it off is to change your way of thinking about food and get some exercise. I don't see possibly how you could change my opinion. Maybe this is closedmindedness, but to me, it is just reality. They say the same thing to people about quitting smoking... when you want to do it bad enough, you will do it, irregardless of all the aids there are to help you quit. Same thing with losing weight for the common type of obesity... when you really want to lose weight, you will do it the right way. But you have to WANT to. Drinking vinegar won't do it for you. If you take in more calories than you burn, it will turn to fat.


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RE: Cider Vinegar for weight loss?

..Well..phew Sorry to catch up to some unhappy reading, Just thought I would check in. It is day 49 for me on the Master Cleanser, and I have begun the rebuild steps. I have lost over 40 lbs, and am expecting to gain back 5 or so as I begin back on solid foods, and begin muscle building. I anticipate about a 10lb increase overall, this is realistic. I really would encourage both of you, to if nothing else give Stanley Burroughs book a read, and more importantly encourage you to try the cleanse!..It has been around for a long time, many people sicker than yourself have had amazing results! It's been around since the 1940's

Is it a Fear that you have to try it?..I would love for you to give it a go, and post your findings here. It sounds like Both of you have never tried it, and there is nothing for you to loose in doing so!

As it sounds to me, Both of you are on medications, and I would encourage you to consult your Physicians before starting it, If you really feel that it can't help you, then proove me wrong, DO IT, and post it here.
I will continue to post updates for others to see in my positive way!

heathen1. Two of the things you state you suffer from are arthritis, and asthma, I asked you a few posts back how much dairy you consume!? This is something that I am curious about and still researching.

I am not trying to sell anything, I just want you to read a book!..it's probably at the library!..as I said it's been around since the 1940's

In the past couple of months I have come into conversations with people that I work with, two people recently told me that they not only do the cleanse on an annual basis, but conveyed stories about their friends who had amazing stories. One had a brain tumor that has now shrunk to a size that is considered non life threatening 60 days on the cleanse, no medications! The other had Cancer which has now gone. I am sure that there are many other stories out there, and equally as many doubters!...Perhaps one day there might even be a Website of results if someone had the time. Until then it is up to you, try it!

..The higher the Vibration, the healthier the Soul!
it's no Fad diet..IT WORKS...and the book has many things that "cosmiccornucopia", you will no doubt agree with! It is all about life change, and sounds like you both could use it!

..I send my good thoughts to you both, and the others that have read this far!..I feel great and will continue to post here for proof sake! lol


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RE: Cider Vinegar for weight loss?

From this site on nutrition quackery:

"Testimonial evidence is by definition biased and unreliable. Scientists report their studies in reputable journals, where their work is reviewed and evaluated by other scientists prior to publication. Controlled experiments that can be confirmed by repeating the study are the best way to document the truth of the information."


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RE: Cider Vinegar for weight loss?

Sunkist... I don't consume much dairy... my sister and my Japanese BF are both lactose intolerant, I have milk in my coffee and that's about it. I love cheese, but don't eat it much as it gives me phlegm when I jog. :o) My Dad had very bad asthma as a child, back when they just kept you in bed. So I inherited it. I betcha though, if I didn't live in California's polluted air, my asthma would be better. If there was better healthcare in small towns, I'm so outta here! :o)
I don't really need to lose much weight... maybe 5lbs. And with my diseases, it's more important that I eat healthy than I stay skinny. Which is another reason why fitness is so important to me... there are studies with AIDS patients that just some simple mild weight lifting can boost their immunity. You might understand why fitness is so important to me. So much health information around me. I am a new convert to nettle tea for asthma, I used to drink a ton of mullein tea... definitely works, but nettle lasts longer. But I don't drink it for a long time, due to it's side affects.
Eric: Nutrition quacks promote false and/or unproven nutrition products or services for a profit. Quacks can be sincere and misguided individuals, as well as charlatans and frauds. Quackery is successful because we want to believe in something "magical" that can improve performance more than hard training or a prudent diet. :o) This is my mantra! :D But... people so want something magickal, as you can see by my banging my head against the wall. Specially here in the US, where EVERYTHING is supposed to come easily.
Quackery is a harsh word... and you have to take into consideration the "placebo effect". now the placebo effect wouldn't work if the brain wasn't a powerful organ that controls the body. I think that a lot of placebos might work, but only temporarily... just like any "fad diet" because people get on these diets and cleanses, but they don't stick with them... one HAS to change one's life permanently, you can't do a diet or a cleanse or a magical potion for awhile, then quit and go back to your old lifestyle... it's doomed to failure. You may lose weight... but when you stop, you just gain it back all the faster.
But this is already known.. .everyone knows this and just keeps doing it... I think that as long as the culture of the US is a culture of excess, we will just keep getting fatter.


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RE: Cider Vinegar for weight loss?

....Hail the GREAT ERIC OH !

From this site on nutrition quackery:
"Testimonial evidence is by definition biased and unreliable. Scientists report their studies in reputable journals, where their work is reviewed and evaluated by other scientists prior to publication. Controlled experiments that can be confirmed by repeating the study are the best way to document the truth of the information."

Yes once again backing into your safe corner of backed scientific proof!!..lol
E=MC2...that was good until proof of a "Blackhole" in space!

..Another sponsered link you post..yikes..do you have a life at all!?..I asked you many posts ago, what good insight you have etc. you have posted and offended many all over the sight, however, I hear you have a nice garden, and some nice pictures!...Again You must be in perfect health, and have much to share with us ...do tell !..and You have Never tried the Master Cleanser, so why don't you ?..

science (s?'?ns)
n.
The observation, identification, description, experimental investigation, and theoretical explanation of phenomena.
Such activities restricted to a class of natural phenomena.
Such activities applied to an object of inquiry or study.
Methodological activity, discipline, or study: I've got packing a suitcase down to a science.
An activity that appears to require study and method: the science of purchasing.
Knowledge, especially that gained through experience.

Once again think of the young grads from Harvard putting together their Master thesis etc. on some study like, Drinking coffee everyday is not harmful!..yes..you here them on the radio all the time...

Look Eric we all can agree that the scientific community is the proofing ground for many things, yet we must all agree that you can't beleive all that you read, or hear!..You spend hours and hours I would venture to say, on the internet, and at this web site trying to argue your point from an arm chair, so to speak.

What schooling do you have Eric!..and why is it that you are so negative in your posts?

"Controlled experiments that can be confirmed by repeating the study are the best way to document the truth of the information.".....Sure... that reminds me of the Electric Shock Therapy that was used in mental facilities...well Eric was that a good proofing by the Scientific Comunity !?

Here is some more reading for you Eric, as you love to be so Correct !
* Definitions

(Every article, book, paper, etc. should always include definitions as well as a bibliography or reference section.)
Introduction to the Scientific Method


The scientific method is the process by which scientists, collectively and over time, endeavor to construct an accurate (that is, reliable, consistent and non-arbitrary) representation of the world.

Recognizing that personal and cultural beliefs influence both our perceptions and our interpretations of natural phenomena, we aim through the use of standard procedures and criteria to minimize those influences when developing a theory. As a famous scientist once said, "Smart people (like smart lawyers) can come up with very good explanations for mistaken points of view." In summary, the scientific method attempts to minimize the influence of bias or prejudice in the experimenter when testing an hypothesis or a theory.
I. The scientific method has four steps

1. Observation and description of a phenomenon or group of phenomena.

2. Formulation of an hypothesis to explain the phenomena. In physics, the hypothesis often takes the form of a causal mechanism or a mathematical relation.

3. Use of the hypothesis to predict the existence of other phenomena, or to predict quantitatively the results of new observations.

4. Performance of experimental tests of the predictions by several independent experimenters and properly performed experiments.

If the experiments bear out the hypothesis it may come to be regarded as a theory or law of nature (more on the concepts of hypothesis, model, theory and law below). If the experiments do not bear out the hypothesis, it must be rejected or modified. What is key in the description of the scientific method just given is the predictive power (the ability to get more out of the theory than you put in; see Barrow, 1991) of the hypothesis or theory, as tested by experiment. It is often said in science that theories can never be proved, only disproved. There is always the possibility that a new observation or a new experiment will conflict with a long-standing theory.

II. Testing hypotheses

As just stated, experimental tests may lead either to the confirmation of the hypothesis, or to the ruling out of the hypothesis. The scientific method requires that an hypothesis be ruled out or modified if its predictions are clearly and repeatedly incompatible with experimental tests. Further, no matter how elegant a theory is, its predictions must agree with experimental results if we are to believe that it is a valid description of nature. In physics, as in every experimental science, "experiment is supreme" and experimental verification of hypothetical predictions is absolutely necessary. Experiments may test the theory directly (for example, the observation of a new particle) or may test for consequences derived from the theory using mathematics and logic (the rate of a radioactive decay process requiring the existence of the new particle). Note that the necessity of experiment also implies that a theory must be testable. Theories which cannot be tested, because, for instance, they have no observable ramifications (such as, a particle whose characteristics make it unobservable), do not qualify as scientific theories.

If the predictions of a long-standing theory are found to be in disagreement with new experimental results, the theory may be discarded as a description of reality, but it may continue to be applicable within a limited range of measurable parameters. For example, the laws of classical mechanics (Newton's Laws) are valid only when the velocities of interest are much smaller than the speed of light (that is, in algebraic form, when v/c << 1). Since this is the domain of a large portion of human experience, the laws of classical mechanics are widely, usefully and correctly applied in a large range of technological and scientific problems. Yet in nature we observe a domain in which v/c is not small. The motions of objects in this domain, as well as motion in the "classical" domain, are accurately described through the equations of Einstein's theory of relativity. We believe, due to experimental tests, that relativistic theory provides a more general, and therefore more accurate, description of the principles governing our universe, than the earlier "classical" theory. Further, we find that the relativistic equations reduce to the classical equations in the limit v/c << 1. Similarly, classical physics is valid only at distances much larger than atomic scales (x >> 10-8 m). A description which is valid at all length scales is given by the equations of quantum mechanics.

We are all familiar with theories which had to be discarded in the face of experimental evidence. In the field of astronomy, the earth-centered description of the planetary orbits was overthrown by the Copernican system, in which the sun was placed at the center of a series of concentric, circular planetary orbits. Later, this theory was modified, as measurements of the planets motions were found to be compatible with elliptical, not circular, orbits, and still later planetary motion was found to be derivable from Newton's laws.

Error in experiments have several sources. First, there is error intrinsic to instruments of measurement. Because this type of error has equal probability of producing a measurement higher or lower numerically than the "true" value, it is called random error. Second, there is non-random or systematic error, due to factors which bias the result in one direction. No measurement, and therefore no experiment, can be perfectly precise. At the same time, in science we have standard ways of estimating and in some cases reducing errors. Thus it is important to determine the accuracy of a particular measurement and, when stating quantitative results, to quote the measurement error. A measurement without a quoted error is meaningless. The comparison between experiment and theory is made within the context of experimental errors. Scientists ask, how many standard deviations are the results from the theoretical prediction? Have all sources of systematic and random errors been properly estimated? This is discussed in more detail in the appendix on Error Analysis and in Statistics Lab 1.

III. Common Mistakes in Applying the Scientific Method

As stated earlier, the scientific method attempts to minimize the influence of the scientist's bias on the outcome of an experiment. That is, when testing an hypothesis or a theory, the scientist may have a preference for one outcome or another, and it is important that this preference not bias the results or their interpretation. The most fundamental error is to mistake the hypothesis for an explanation of a phenomenon, without performing experimental tests. Sometimes "common sense" and "logic" tempt us into believing that no test is needed. There are numerous examples of this, dating from the Greek philosophers to the present day.

Another common mistake is to ignore or rule out data which do not support the hypothesis. Ideally, the experimenter is open to the possibility that the hypothesis is correct or incorrect. Sometimes, however, a scientist may have a strong belief that the hypothesis is true (or false), or feels internal or external pressure to get a specific result. In that case, there may be a psychological tendency to find "something wrong", such as systematic effects, with data which do not support the scientist's expectations, while data which do agree with those expectations may not be checked as carefully. The lesson is that all data must be handled in the same way.

Another common mistake arises from the failure to estimate quantitatively systematic errors (and all errors). There are many examples of discoveries which were missed by experimenters whose data contained a new phenomenon, but who explained it away as a systematic background. Conversely, there are many examples of alleged "new discoveries" which later proved to be due to systematic errors not accounted for by the "discoverers."

In a field where there is active experimentation and open communication among members of the scientific community, the biases of individuals or groups may cancel out, because experimental tests are repeated by different scientists who may have different biases. In addition, different types of experimental setups have different sources of systematic errors. Over a period spanning a variety of experimental tests (usually at least several years), a consensus develops in the community as to which experimental results have stood the test of time.

IV. Hypotheses, Models, Theories and Laws

In physics and other science disciplines, the words "hypothesis," "model," "theory" and "law" have different connotations in relation to the stage of acceptance or knowledge about a group of phenomena.

An hypothesis is a limited statement regarding cause and effect in specific situations; it also refers to our state of knowledge before experimental work has been performed and perhaps even before new phenomena have been predicted. To take an example from daily life, suppose you discover that your car will not start. You may say, "My car does not start because the battery is low." This is your first hypothesis. You may then check whether the lights were left on, or if the engine makes a particular sound when you turn the ignition key. You might actually check the voltage across the terminals of the battery. If you discover that the battery is not low, you might attempt another hypothesis ("The starter is broken"; "This is really not my car.")

The word model is reserved for situations when it is known that the hypothesis has at least limited validity. A often-cited example of this is the Bohr model of the atom, in which, in an analogy to the solar system, the electrons are described has moving in circular orbits around the nucleus. This is not an accurate depiction of what an atom "looks like," but the model succeeds in mathematically representing the energies (but not the correct angular momenta) of the quantum states of the electron in the simplest case, the hydrogen atom. Another example is Hook's Law (which should be called Hook's principle, or Hook's model), which states that the force exerted by a mass attached to a spring is proportional to the amount the spring is stretched. We know that this principle is only valid for small amounts of stretching. The "law" fails when the spring is stretched beyond its elastic limit (it can break). This principle, however, leads to the prediction of simple harmonic motion, and, as a model of the behavior of a spring, has been versatile in an extremely broad range of applications.

A scientific theory or law represents an hypothesis, or a group of related hypotheses, which has been confirmed through repeated experimental tests. Theories in physics are often formulated in terms of a few concepts and equations, which are identified with "laws of nature," suggesting their universal applicability. Accepted scientific theories and laws become part of our understanding of the universe and the basis for exploring less well-understood areas of knowledge. Theories are not easily discarded; new discoveries are first assumed to fit into the existing theoretical framework. It is only when, after repeated experimental tests, the new phenomenon cannot be accommodated that scientists seriously question the theory and attempt to modify it. The validity that we attach to scientific theories as representing realities of the physical world is to be contrasted with the facile invalidation implied by the expression, "It's only a theory." For example, it is unlikely that a person will step off a tall building on the assumption that they will not fall, because "Gravity is only a theory."

Changes in scientific thought and theories occur, of course, sometimes revolutionizing our view of the world (Kuhn, 1962). Again, the key force for change is the scientific method, and its emphasis on experiment.

V. Are there circumstances in which the Scientific Method is not applicable?

While the scientific method is necessary in developing scientific knowledge, it is also useful in everyday problem-solving. What do you do when your telephone doesn't work? Is the problem in the hand set, the cabling inside your house, the hookup outside, or in the workings of the phone company? The process you might go through to solve this problem could involve scientific thinking, and the results might contradict your initial expectations.

Like any good scientist, you may question the range of situations (outside of science) in which the scientific method may be applied. From what has been stated above, we determine that the scientific method works best in situations where one can isolate the phenomenon of interest, by eliminating or accounting for extraneous factors, and where one can repeatedly test the system under study after making limited, controlled changes in it.

There are, of course, circumstances when one cannot isolate the phenomena or when one cannot repeat the measurement over and over again. In such cases the results may depend in part on the history of a situation. This often occurs in social interactions between people. For example, when a lawyer makes arguments in front of a jury in court, she or he cannot try other approaches by repeating the trial over and over again in front of the same jury. In a new trial, the jury composition will be different. Even the same jury hearing a new set of arguments cannot be expected to forget what they heard before.

VI. Conclusion

The scientific method is intricately associated with science, the process of human inquiry that pervades the modern era on many levels. While the method appears simple and logical in description, there is perhaps no more complex question than that of knowing how we come to know things. In this introduction, we have emphasized that the scientific method distinguishes science from other forms of explanation because of its requirement of systematic experimentation. We have also tried to point out some of the criteria and practices developed by scientists to reduce the influence of individual or social bias on scientific findings. Further investigations of the scientific method and other aspects of scientific practice may be found in the references listed below.

VII. References

1. Wilson, E. Bright. An Introduction to Scientific Research (McGraw-Hill, 1952).

2. Kuhn, Thomas. The Structure of Scientific Revolutions (Univ. of Chicago Press, 1962).

3. Barrow, John. Theories of Everything (Oxford Univ. Press, 1991).

describe: to understand the nature of something in the universe and define it in a manner that allows it to be studied and communicated.

fact: a theory that has been validated close to certainty.

hypothesis: a tentative or working assumption which scientific study has yet to validate.

For instance, I can make the hypothesis that fire is hot. I put my hand into a fire and find it is hot. Now it is a theory. If it is validated by many to the point of certainty then it is a fact. Technically, there is nothing that is 100% certain. For instance, I could be existing in a dream world where fire is hot while in my real world fire is cold. Though this is highly unlikely, it still could be so. But when something seems to be confirmed by every reasonable method, then we can call it a fact.

law: a characteristic of the universes that seems fundamental to the workings of he universe.

part: any component of the universe.

Science: the field of study which tries to describe and understand the nature of the universe in whole or part. The field of study or discipline that we call Science is spelled with a capital "S" as it is a proper noun in this use while science with a small "s" is the application of this discipline.

theory: a hypothesis or group of hypotheses which have been validated but not to the point of near certainty.

universe: that which exists and in its entirety. This includes all that exists whether it can be perceived or not.

whole: something that permeates the universe at large. e.g. gravity.

Note: The definitions used here and in the article above are those of the author's unless otherwise referenced.


**In addition to the above definitions of hypothesis, theory, fact, and law, below is an example of their appropriate use.

Let's say that I form the hypothesis that fire is hot. I then put my hand into a fire and find it is hot. Now it is a theory as it has been verified. If it is verified by many to the point of certainty then it becomes a fact.

Technically, there is nothing that is 100% certain. For instance, I could be existing in a dream world where fire is hot while in my real world fire is cold. Though this is highly unlikely, it still could be so. But when something seems to be confirmed by every reasonable method, then we can call it a fact.

A Law on the other hand is not a fact, but rather it is something that seems fundamental to the workings of the universe. As we have seen, Laws are subject to revision (as Einstein did to Newton, and Siepmann has done to Einstein6).

References

1. Bridgman PW, "On Scientific Method," Reflections of a Physicist, 1955

2. "Ignorance reveals itself through arrogance." JP Siepmann quote 1997

3. http://teacher.nsrl.rochester.edu/phy_labs/AppendixE/AppendixE.html

4. Excepted from The American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language, Third Edition 1996.

5. JP Siepmann quote 1998

6. Siepmann JP, "The Laws of Space and Observation," Journal of Theoretics, April/May 1999, Vol.1-No.1.


I suggest you read all this, and again imagine that you probably do have some valid and worthwile things to say, it is Fear that keeps skeptics like yourself from trying to make change!..


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RE: Cider Vinegar for weight loss?

Sunkist! aaaaah, wow... okay... I think that you just stated the EXACT reason, when there's a new study out, I tend to withhold judgement until there's another to back it up... I am a HUGE skeptic. I think that both "herbal" and "scientific" studies can be flawed. For example, I am skeptical at the new study that says echinacea doesn't work. Well, why'd they tell AIDS victims not to take it, because it stimulated the body to put out INFECTED t-cells? So... were they lying? So, I am skeptical about that...
but then I am also skeptical about new herbal miracles... I just can't believe in "miracles". Maybe because people who are open with their status get bombarded with emails on miracle HIV cures from 3rd world countries.... "How the government is keeping secret this plant that I've never heard of is curing AIDS (where?) in 3rd world coutries...(WHERE? I thought they died FASTER there) if I just send $$$ they will send me a sample" I have a friend who buys into EVERYTHING... he still thinks that oxygenating himself will cure stuff.... This is the stuff that I consider quakery. I WISH that Western Medicine and Herbalism will get together and work together so that "belief" won't enter into it... we will KNOW. so that we won't have people shutting out one for the other. I think that it's as just as ridiculous to shut out western medicine as it is to shut out herbalism.... but to me, healthy skepticism is healthy.


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RE: Cider Vinegar for weight loss?

It's sort of weird to be told that I'm spending too much time on the Internet, by someone who then goes out and posts one of the longest, most complicated messages ever seen in this forum. :)

Much of it looks like it was cut and pasted from some other site, in which case it would be nice to know the author.

For those of us with limited time to spend, could you summarize the parts that have to do with the alleged effectiveness of cider vinegar and the "Master Cleanse" in promoting weight loss? (minus unrelated personal attacks, please).


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RE: Cider Vinegar for weight loss?

..Limited time to spend.....lol
..Easy..Google the definition of science!...done that, then google The Master Cleanser..If you had taken the time to do so several posts back you would have the information as it relates to weight loss..

..here, this might help you..
http://www.answers.com/topic/science
http://www.journaloftheoretics.com/Editorials/Vol-1/e1-3.htm
http://teacher.nsrl.rochester.edu/phy_labs/AppendixE/AppendixE.html

The reason I posted the Definitions of science etc. was due to this post of yours..

"Testimonial evidence is by definition biased and unreliable. Scientists report their studies in reputable journals, where their work is reviewed and evaluated by other scientists prior to publication. Controlled experiments that can be confirmed by repeating the study are the best way to document the truth of the information."

.....................another link as stated, to a "Sponsered Site"..! ?

How does it relate to this forum of discussion on weight loss?..it doesn't ! it is more an attempt of yours to discredit any testimonials made!..aka personal attack !

Instead you have not posted any personal experience with regards to weight loss pertaining to the effectiveness of the "Master Cleanser", nor have you given any answers relating to the questions regarding personal experience, education, or your own personal health, notice how others here are using their own personal experience as a guide to perhaps a better understanding, and place from which to learn and draw experience from.

As on most of your posts you love to be the "Armchair Philosopher", and would have us beleive that you have all this advice to give, however much of it is founded on your time spent on the internet, and the links along the way !

http://www.sciencedaily.com/cgi-bin/apf4/amazon_products_feed.cgi?Operation=ItemLookup&ItemId=0963926209
http://curezone.com/cleanse/bowel/master_cleanse.asp

I have posted and given my personal experience with regards to the effectiveness of weight loss as it relates to the master cleanser, and how I have intended to use the Unrefined Natural Cider Vinegar combined with Various oils, as part of a greater dietary plan to continue a healthier program of eating. Yes..it includes exercise !

"I'd certainly agree about eating more fresh vegetables and fruit. And vinegar of various kinds helps make a good salad dressing.
And to take the liberty of repeating lazygarden's advice in the current thread on cholesterol (since it also applies to weight loss):
Try exercise - a half-hour of brisk walking a day. "

Vinegar of various kinds..be careful here, do take the time to read about vinegar, as some of it may be made from a derivative from coal tar. This was a good bit of advice Eric, please do post the link to that thread on cholesterol, as the last time I started looking I ran out of time, however I managed to read all about.................. coconut oil,.... thanks ! ;)

....Ahhh heathen1, thanks for all that you have contibuted !..most of the information was for Eric's benefit...He has been posting on this forum for over 5 years, and never attempted to post any personal experience as it relates to this forum. You know the type!..Refuses to answer any personal questions..etc..

"I WISH that Western Medicine and Herbalism will get together and work together "...I hope so as well, thats why I wanted us all to understand the definitions and method...as we all are a part of..
.."The observation, identification, description, experimental investigation, and theoretical explanation of phenomena."
here is something for you regarding "EIB" (asthma)

http://debunkbigpharma.blognation.us/blog/Lungs/_archives/2006/1/10/1634359.html

..I have run out of time for the day !..


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RE: Cider Vinegar for weight loss?

Okay... Just to confuse things more... no one has ever answered my question. Here it is... I make wine, so, I know also how to make vinegar, some which is made by mistake! So, here's briefly how to make it.... I copied this off a site...
The following steps must be followed to make a high-quality cider vinegar:

Make a clean cider from ripe apples.

Change all of the fruit sugar to alcohol. This is called "yeast fermentation."

Change all of the alcohol to acetic acid. This is called "acetic acid fermentation."

Clarify the acetic acid to prevent further fermentation and decomposition.

So, you take 5 gals of cider and ferment it, then turn it to vinegar... So what in this would make you lose weight? The apple cider? the mother of vinegar? the alcohol yeast? If it's not the cider itself, then why can't you drink wine vinegar and lose weight?
I'd really like to know, before I condemned it or promoted it.


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RE: Cider Vinegar for weight loss?

...Hope this helps you, please go to this site and read the information.

http://www.aafp.org/afp/20041101/1731.html

I would not recommend the use of ACV for weight loss..However I do suggest using it along with many of the healthy oils to make a healthy dressing ;)
..Do read up on the many oils..as mentioned earlier. :)

(It is ironic that at the bottom of this page, as you post,..all of the Yahoo sponsored links pointing to ACV are there !..lol)


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RE: Cider Vinegar for weight loss?

"Instead you have not posted any personal experience with regards to weight loss pertaining to the effectiveness of the "Master Cleanser", nor have you given any answers relating to the questions regarding personal experience, education, or your own personal health, notice how others here are using their own personal experience as a guide to perhaps a better understanding, and place from which to learn and draw experience from."

This statement about testimonials reflects a common misunderstanding.

Due to the anonymity provided by the Internet, anyone can post on this forum about how wonderful a particular remedy is, how it helped them to lose 50 pounds, gain back their libido, cure all manner of diseases and grow hair (in wanted places). Aside from all the deficiencies of testimonials (such as whether the person ever really had the stated condition in the first place), the central fact is that none of us really know just who the people giving these testimonials are, and what their motivations might be. We've had numerous supplement spammers on this forum disguised as ordinary posters - as one example, not long ago there was a poster preaching about the alleged anticancer activity of a particular fruit, and linking to his website, which characterized him as a supporter of research and development of product(s) based on this fruit. It was only after months of posting that he finally admitted that he ran a supplement company.

Regular posters to this forum know me to be an MD. Rather than expecting people to take my word for it, I provide links to reputable sites and bona fide research articles. People can make decisions, if they wish, on the basis of science and clinical trials, instead of commercial hype and anonymous testimonials.

There also is a mistaken notion that questioning an idea and asking for evidence constitutes some kind of assault that permits a poster to volley back with personal insults. Beyond that, some folks apparently hope that if they can generate a flame war, the confusion will cover up a lack of such evidence.

Looking at the links sunkist provided, we've got general descriptions of scientific methods, a book review and more testimonials. Since there are no research studies showing that "cleanses", purging with laxatives etc. are effective and safe means of losing weight and keeping it off long-term, forum users will have to decide for themselves whether to rely on proven methods (including diet and exercise) or accept testimonials for products that offer appealing shortcuts, but have not been shown to work.

As to the argument that "you've got to try it yourself first before saying it's no good", there are limits to which any of us can be expected to be a guinea pig. For instance, on the CureZone site to which sunkist linked, there are a bunch of people devoted to drinking their own urine for supposed health benefits. That one can be debunked without any need for going on a personal urine-drinking binge, thank you very much. ;)


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RE: Cider Vinegar for weight loss?

For those who find testimonial evidence convincing, here's one story you might find interesting.

British health regulators have also begun an investigation of claims made for "cleansing" diets. This follows a BBC program in which several doctors agreed to be guinea pigs and go on "detox" programs. While this sort of thing makes an entertaining stunt, in reality it's just more personal testimonial evidence - somewhat more reliable than an anonymous blurb on a website, but still no substitute for a well-conducted clinical trial.

It's interesting that the British system requires licensing based on proof of safety and efficacy, before a supplement seller is permitted to make medical claims. Regulations are much looser in the U.S., meaning less protection for consumers.


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RE: Cider Vinegar for weight loss?

AHA! Eric, you are an MD.... what KIND of MD are you? I partially blame the medical industry for this "magic bullet" problem... after the discovery of penicillan, most doctors have been what I call "pill pushers". Just take a pill for this, just take a pill for that. It's only been recently that some of the younger doctors are BEGINNING to come out of that and are realizing that their pill pushing has caused problems. I have seen for example, instead of recommending diet and exercise for high blood pressure... just take a pill! and on and on. For example, at my clinic, there's the gynocologist... this woman is amazing, she's also a pharmacist. She treats women's gynocological problems in a "whole body" way. And she's kinda considered a MAVERICK.
I have found myself arguing with SOME docs about myself and pills, I know my body best.... I don't care how much schooling they've had. I was always right. :o) Now, I just choose doctors for their open minds, Yer out of medical school now, you can THINK for yourself. (I told this to one female intern once, who told me there were NO nerves in the cervix??? WHAT? are you an idiot?)
This is one reason why people distrust Western medicine. A LOT of doctors don't bother taking the patient into consideration when diagnosing and prescribing. They kind of have themselves on a pedestal, dispensing medicine in a god-like way, forgetting that they are offering a service and the customer is always right. :o) I had a doc go off, write me a prescription, hand me the tag and walk off, all irritated when I made him come back and tell me the side-affects of said medicine. And take my word for it, some HIV meds have INTENSE side-affects. I guess I was just wasting his time.
Okay... end of my grump. :o)


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RE: Cider Vinegar for weight loss?

..AAHH the Doctor is out of the closet!..

I have posted my own website for all to see, several posts back...feel free to contact me..

This site;
http://www.thedietchannel.com/quack.htm
Hardly a reputable site !
More a Giant site for all the Diet sponsers.! get real!
This site I posted, I am sure the doctor can understand
http://www.aafp.org/afp/20041101/1731.html

......"Regular posters to this forum know me to be an MD. "
..So you Claim! lol.. Post your own web site for us!..if you have one.

"the central fact is that none of us really know just who the people giving these testimonials are, and what their motivations might be. We've had numerous supplement spammers on this forum disguised as ordinary posters - as one example, not long ago there was a poster preaching about the alleged anticancer activity of a particular fruit, and linking to his website, which characterized him as a supporter of research and development of product(s) based on this fruit. It was only after months of posting that he finally admitted that he ran a supplement company"

I notice that you use the plural "we" and "us"...who is it you are refering to ?..Implying ownership !? Sounds to me like a "paycheck !"..Who is it you work for ?

We should wonder what sort of a Doctor has the time to be at this gardenweb site, and that they would probably hate this site
http://www.gcnm.com/

I am surprised a "Doctor" has never heard of the Master Cleanser. Walk in to any Health Food store, and I am sure you will find it, and someone will know about it. You can and will find people that have tried it , talk with them, ask them about it, then you are dealing with real people. First hand proof is exactly that..
..Just for the heck of it..here is a site where lemonade was used as a treatment!..lol
http://www.jurology.com/article/PIIS0022534701656593/abstract
..Then again," Doctor of Medicine" would be more apt to offer you drugs!

..Knowledge is wisdom, and reading is a part of that !

Here is a great start point for any of you..http://www.answers.com/topic/raw-food-diet

............For the benefits of a "Cleanse" see this site
http://www.cleanse.net/mucoid_plaque.HTM
It does not have to be about loosing weight !..thats just a bonus ;)

"Regular posters to this forum know me to be an MD. Rather than expecting people to take my word for it, I provide links to reputable sites and bona fide research articles. People can make decisions, if they wish, on the basis of science and clinical trials, instead of commercial hype and anonymous testimonials."

As far as Scientific proof goes I leave you with this..
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2003/05/030522083022.htm

...What good that research did !...nuf said !

In conclusion, I think that ACV is not wise to consume as an intended method to loose weight. I would hope that you all would read and research/consult with professionals if you are looking to loose weight. I would also say that I have posted some good starting points for you to help in making a life change towards a better way of eating/health.
People should make their decisions Not just on the basis of science and clinical trials.Get out and talk with real people as well !


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RE: Cider Vinegar for weight loss?

heathen, there are many good, caring and responsible MDs - and then there are other MDs who prescribe pharmaceutical drugs as well as herbs and supplements with insufficient regard for their safety, effectiveness, and interactions.
There's a big ad in a nationally distributed newspaper today, featuring an MD who's promoting a "Super Prostate Formula" with all sorts of promises about how great it works (with the usual small print disclaimer that the product "is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure or prevent any disease"). There are no references to any studies or proof that it works, just testimonials. This in my view is not the responsible practice of medicine.
In part, it's up to us (members of this forum and all health care consumers, of which I'm one) to be careful about what we put into our bodies and research drugs of all kinds as much as possible (the Internet can be an excellent source of valuable information as well as worthless hype).

"I am surprised a "Doctor" has never heard of the Master Cleanser."

There are a zillion "cleansers" and "detoxifiers" on the market, none of which to my knowledge do much except fatten the wallets of their sellers.

"As far as Scientific proof goes I leave you with this..
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2003/05/030522083022.htm"

That linked article deals with the Atkins diet, not the "Master Cleanse", so I don't see how it proves your claims.


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RE: Cider Vinegar for weight loss?

Oh I know... but I also know that some caring doctor's are still pill pushers... just the generation they came from. Hence the over prescribing of penicillin. You STILL didn't say what kind of MD you are... I mean, can't you be a Psychiatrist and be an MD? :o) or you could be an MD who specializes in Pediatric Medicine.... or geriatric... just wondering.
Sunkist.... I have spent many hours of my life in Healthfood stores and never heard of it. :D Course I could be a bit oblivious.


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RE: Cider Vinegar for weight loss?

I'm a pathologist (laboratory-based physician). I write very few prescriptions, which means I miss out on those free coffee mugs and pens (not to mention the now largely defunct all-expenses-paid seminar in Aruba). :)

Of course, the above statement could just be a front for my real persona as a minion of the Medical-Big Pharma Cartel. You never know online - so it's best not to rely on who people say they are, but to evaluate their statements using the most reliable information available.


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RE: Cider Vinegar for weight loss?

oh... velly interesting... do you work in the morgue? Or do you feed chemicals to rats? :D
Sorry, not quite sure if you are sarcastic about Big Pharma Cartel... since I believe they are one of the big nasties in the US right now. Sorry if I don't think that doing research on a new Viagra is more important than research on a new antibiotic. And sorry if I think that it's great that we pay 5X more for our meds here in the US than anywhere else. Hey, healthcare isn't a right, it's a privilege for the rich, and if the working poor can't afford healthcare for their families, they should just shut up and be grateful they live in the US.


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RE: Cider Vinegar for weight loss?

Nope, virtually all of my patients are alive (and human).

I share some of your views about the health care system and the pharmaceutical industry; in addition, I am concerned about the practices and costs associated with the huge and ever-growing multibillion dollar supplement industry. Since they're the ones that market many unproven, badly standardized and worthless herbal products, they get most of my attention in this forum.


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RE: Cider Vinegar for weight loss?

Yes, I figgered it out... yer the one they send this biopsy to to see if it's cancerous or benign kinda thing, then you stick it under the microscope? Yes, I agree... BUT, as in centuries past... snake oil salesmen have always made money off of people's dreams. It has always been so. If gullible wasn't in the dictionary, there wouldn't be a term for Snake Oil Salesmen. But it makes people angry when you take their dreams away... So, in some aspects, having people make money off of other people's hopes.... well, it gives them a hope, so they ARE providing a service. I lived in San Francisco during the early 80's when people were grabbing CRAZILY at straws for SOMETHING to stop their dying of AIDS. Chasing after one herb after another. So, do you think it would have been kind to take that tiny little hope away from them? Even though common SENSE says that they wouldn't work...
I see your point, and it's sort of your job to help people... but sometimes, not always, but sometimes it's not helping.


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RE: Cider Vinegar for weight loss?P.S.

This applies to me too... see how angry people got when I suggested the best way to lose weight?


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RE: Cider Vinegar for weight loss?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pathologist

..which means you also miss out in talking with patients/people...too bad!

The reason I posted the "Atkins Diet" info, was to show how the Scientific community can be involved in a "Fad Diet"..unless you are an advocate of the diet !?

Information you posted from a 2003 BBC article, and the one posted in a nationally distibuted newspaper are sensationalism at it's best. I would admonish you that these sources of media are hardly reputable sources for information, as they are often lacking in fact deptartments, and editors with our best interests at heart!

Here is what one of your favorite sites has to say about the Master Cleanser, as you where unable to correctly type it in the search.
http://www.quackwatch.org/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/dictionary/mdl.html

You can find the book at the library, however you will have to fork over your hard earned cash to the grocer for the Organic lemons, Organic Maple syrup, and the cayenne pepper, the water I leave up to you....Ohh those sinister grocers with their fat wallets !..lol

It is doubtful that the funding for research for scientific evidence for this cleanse would be readily available, due in part to it's components. I doubt the Medical-Big Pharma Cartel would get involved! $$ ?

You would think that something that has been around for more than 40 years would have had more information about how bad it was, if that where really the case.

I notice you don't have much to say about the other sites I posted such as this, which does pertain to ACV
which I feel is valid for this forum.
http://www.aafp.org/afp/20041101/1731.html

Or this, which I think is also good information
http://www.answers.com/topic/raw-food-diet

And forget about products and do some reading at this site, which has plenty of reference material where you can further research and brush up on your "Knowledge"
http://www.cleanse.net/mucoid_plaque.HTM

Heathen1.. don't give up ! try one of the health food stores that has a book section, and talk to the person who usually staffs that particular area.


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RE: Cider Vinegar for weight loss?

...P.S.
I had asked you if you would be so kind as to post us the link to the following
"And to take the liberty of repeating lazygarden's advice in the current thread on cholesterol (since it also applies to weight loss):"

..still waiting!


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RE: Cider Vinegar for weight loss?

here is the link to the thread Eric was talking about... http://forums2.gardenweb.com/forums/load/herbal/msg0312420919514.html?12

Oh Sunkist... all you eat is lemons and sugar and cayenne? What about all the vitamins and micronutrients that your body needs for building tissue and other needs? Oh.... I wish I hadn't read that... I was HOPING that there was more common sense in there. In daily life, your body breaks down and rebuilds itself and to do that it needs all sorts of vitamins and nutrients and protein. So basically what you are doing is starving it of the building blocks it needs to function. Granted, you feel better when you have less weight on you, but I hope that you don't make yourself sick.
I hope that you are at least taking vitamins. :o( This kind of reminds me of the Grapefruit diet that was the craze in the 70's. Be careful hun, don't wind up in the hospital...
I believe that everything is connected... for example to properly turn protein you eat into tissue, you need vitamin C. To properly use calcium, you need magnesium... and on and on... and women need calcium! Our bodies are a mass of chemical reactions and if we starve them of some needed chemical, it can't make those chemical mixes that keep us alive. You could live on a desert island, eat just coconuts, lose weight alright and starve to death!


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RE: Cider Vinegar for weight loss!

..Thanks for posting that link heathen1, saves me a bit of time!

I finished the Cleanse on March 22nd, after 50 days.Lost a total of 43 pounds and feel great. There are many Vitamins, micronutrients etc. in the lemons, and maple syrup which is a balanced sugar filled with many nutrients read more here.
http://www.whfoods.com/genpage.php?tname=foodspice&dbid=115
http://whfoods.com/genpage.php?tname=nutrientprofile&dbid=44

I have been eating a fantastic diet lately, much of which I can't post in this forum as it does not pertain to topic in discussion, however I will give you a couple of sites here with some very good information in regards to a couple of things I have included in my new dietary intake, I think you might enjoy them. You should be able to find them as well !

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quinoa

http://www.ana-jana.org/reprints/ACF4D.pdf


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RE: Cider Vinegar for weight loss?

Yes, I have heard good things about both... Quinoa's been around for awhile (my mother the hippy was into it many years ago)... NOW, don't tell me that's ALL your eating. :o) And No, there's NOT a lot of vitamins and nutrients in lemons... well, let's say not NEARLY what you need to survive. But that's past.... you are eating better now.. .*Whew* :o) Okay now... I want to see you KEEP this weight off dear. THAT is the goal right? Personally, if you are primarily a vegetarian, who doesn't feel that donuts are a vegetable (:o)) you should have no problem what's so ever to keep the weight off. I mean, if you eat mostly fruits, vegetables and complex carbs with some protein thrown in, you should be thin and healthy as a horse! This is the diet of our ancestors and it kept THEM going.
So is the Wolfberry juice taste good? I have never tried it. Remember though... juice has almost the sugar calories of a soda... with some nutrients thrown in... They just said this on the news... that some people are drinking themselves fat.


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RE: Cider Vinegar for weight loss?

..lol..I shall keep posting here, and if you wish, I did post my website that has my personal information on it..I am a real person, and the 165 member film crew that I just finished a feature film with, witnessed my 190lb transformation over the 50 day period. I am in better condition than I have been, of that I can assure you.

I should have posted this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wolfberry

I choose to eat the whole fruit, as many nutrients and the important fiber are really the benefits!..that goes for any fruit ! I said this before and I will say it again
"P.S. don't drink the juice!...eat the fruit...get it! "...from an earlier post

..I buy the berries in "Chinatown" as they have huge amounts, very inexpensive..try using a small amount with hot water..aka make tea !.
I use them mixed with other dried fruits and nuts.

You did read the nutritional break down here did you not ?
http://www.whfoods.com/genpage.php?tname=foodspice&dbid=115
http://whfoods.com/genpage.php?tname=nutrientprofile&dbid=44

..Also do get the Quinoa, it's great that you have heard about, especially learn from your mother.. try it ! I am sure even the good Dr. ERIC would agree !

..They give premature babies watermelon juice sometimes, to help them fatten up !..so remember that..lol


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RE: Cider Vinegar for weight loss?

Oh heathen1 here is some information for you that "Big-Pharma" just released
http://www.fda.gov/bbs/topics/NEWS/2006/NEW01344.html

In your spare time here is more information, and the good doctor should do the same, for all the sites I have posted recently!

http://bioagnews.byu.edu/newsrelease.aspx?id=126

http://www.fda.gov/ohrms/dockets/dockets/01n0548/01n-0548-rpt0001-04-intro-vol1.pdf

http://www.clinicaltrials.gov/ct/gui/show/NCT00298545?order=21

I will be going to an MD next week, full bloodwork etc., and will post the results if I can.


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RE: Cider Vinegar for weight loss?

...Oh and for the MD Eric oh, I recommend that you spend some time reading ALL the information here at this site: ( Some further info on Garlic for you ;) )
http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/full/70/3/475S

..and in addition to the wolfberry, I would suggest looking around for "Rosa roxburghii Tratt (cili)" Both of these fruits would be beneficial for you to add to your food intake, as I am sure you would agree.
Do you eat these fruits already ? How about Quinoa ?

I would strongly suggest that adding meat to the diet shows little benefit for health, especially considering this research !


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RE: Cider Vinegar for weight loss?

In response to heathen on the subject of snake oil salesmen and trying not to take away hope from people dying of a fatal illness:

I don't think many people (including doctors) would object to the idea of a patient at the end of the line, for whom nothing in mainstream medicine could any longer help, trying an unproven herbal remedy.

But what about a cancer patient whose last family savings are drained away by a Tijuana clinic whose potions and treatments are absolutely worthless?

Then there's a case I saw being discussed on an alt med forum, in which a poster asked for advice involving a woman with metastatic cancer who'd been through conventional treatment and at last had been told there was nothing more that could be provided for her than comfort care. It was suggested that this poor woman start a regimen that included handfulls of pills and supplements, megadose vitamin therapy (which would put her at risk for kidney stones and other problems), and drinking her own urine and (if I remember this right), using an electric "zapper" device to kill the imaginary parasites thought to be causing her cancer. So instead of being permitted to die in relative peace, she'd be subjected to an unpleasant, degrading, expensive and worthless "cure".

And there's the one-time poster on this forum who suggested that in the case of certain unspecified early cancers, that it would be a good idea to try "gentle healing" methods first before consulting an MD for standard treatment. End result - someone with a highly curable early malignancy wastes time with a worthless treatment and winds up with widespread or metastatic disease, and a much worse prognosis.

These are just a few of the situations in which it's necessary to speak out to prevent exploitation or misinformation from harming people.

If there are good and relatively safe methods for dealing with a particular health problem (such as dieting and exercise for weight loss), then it becomes even more important that promoters of alternative methods demonstrate that they are safe and worthwhile (through valid clinical evidence, not testimonials), and justify the expense and/or inconvenience associated with them.

to sunkist: I still don't see anything in any of your many links that shows that it's worthwhile or safe to go on massive fasting or "cleansing" regimens to lose weight. I appreciate your posting the link to the paper in the American Family Physician which had this to say on fad diet promotions:

"Over-the-counter dietary supplements to treat obesity appeal to many patients who desire a "magic bullet" for weight loss. Asking overweight patients about their use of weight-loss supplements and understanding the evidence for the efficacy, safety, and quality of these supplements are critical when counseling patients regarding weight loss...More than 50 individual dietary supplements and more than 125 commercial combination products are available for weight loss. Currently, no weight-loss supplements meet criteria for recommended use.

(The only info I can find about apple cider vinegar in that paper notes that there's no evidence it's effective or safe for weight loss).

Since you commented earlier about people who have lots of time to spend on the Internet, it would be helpful if you indicated the relevance of all the links you post (maybe with short excerpts to indicate what point you think they are making).


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RE: Cider Vinegar for weight loss?

..Talk about Blah Blah Blah...you do go on and on !

Let me see if I can hold your hand here,

"the relevance of all the links you post (maybe with short excerpts to indicate what point you think they are making)."
How about informative links to sites with valid information/knowledge of
A: Food
B: Studies on food
C: Clinical trials on certain foods

Gee thanks for the helpful hint about putting a short excerpt by the link, I notice you do that often.

...I love how you are unable to answer any questions that are postulated, and how you are unable to detach from the cleanse issue. The information I am trying to make available, to those people who have interest, is that of dietary concerns. This forum was started in regards to the issue of weight loss and ACV, we have seen it branch into much bigger and diversified topics, which is good. We all agree that there is no magic bullet, and I am simply giving people the opportunity to do some research into areas that may be of interest to them.Diet is a very complex topic, deserving much more than this arena to begin debate, however I think you are unable to expand your rhetoric to include any personal experience, or familiarity with any of the foods stated.

"(The only info I can find about apple cider vinegar in that paper notes that there's no evidence it's effective or safe for weight loss)."
....Thank god you figured that out...it's what I stated from the beginning of this forrum! You have been at this forum for how long, without posting something this relative ?

I suggest you do more reading, as it is apparant you spend too much time with invalid media sources as stated earlier.

As the merger of traditional scientific based medicine, and shall we say (Alternative) continues to happen it is important that we realise that both sides are armed with the ability to persuade us with "Scientific Based Clinical Trials"
Companies such as this;http://www.pharmanex.com/corp/index.shtml ..need to be monitored and I agree, thank goodness you are the only one here to save us DR. Eric
Then there are education facilities such as this; http://www.gcnm.com/
..Yikes !

Post some information showing how harmful it is to do a cleanse, clinical trials etc. According to the bible Jesus fasted for 40 days, on just water but hey!...thats just from a book based on some testimony...lol


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RE: Cider Vinegar for weight loss?

In any field of science, extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. People making such claims are generally expected to provide supporting evidence and not expect others to do the work for them.

People looking for help losing weight want something tried and tested, and which doesn't expect them to go on an extreme diet in order to drop weight, only to gain it all back (or more), which is what fasts, purges and "cleanses" generally accomplish, if people can tolerate going through with them at all. If these methods really worked long-term, what would be the need to keep repeating them at intervals?

If there's anything else you'd like to discuss on this subject, please do so without further insults and sniping - if you want a response.


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RE: Cider Vinegar for weight loss?

"In any field of science, extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. People making such claims are generally expected to provide supporting evidence and not expect others to do the work for them."

..Wrong ! Others do indeed do the work for them, test subjects, scientists, doctors, lab technicians etc.

Please see the definitions/ sites posted, regarding science/ scientific method.

Dear forum readers, any of you whom have read this far deserve a pat on the back ! As you can see from certain posters, it is often easier to avoid answering questions in an open forum, for many reasons, as stated earlier.

I leave you with the following advice/recommendation, if you get a chance try to find a book by "Christopher Wanjek" called "Bad Medicine" Misconceptions and Miuses Revealed, from Distance Healing to Vitamin O
ISBN: 04714399X

..There are many questions left unanswered by the self proclaimed MD, this should tell you something !


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RE: Cider Vinegar for weight loss?

I read all the postings. Sorry you lost me on those last couple of technical messages. I read in one of the magazines yesterday while I was at the grocery check out that 2 Tablespoons of vinegar at each meal would help me lose weight. They quoted some research, but I was skeptical. 2 Tablespoons of straight vinegar would turn my stomach and cause weight loss without a problem.

Right now I'm on 1500 calories a day. I'm trying to drop 20 lbs and it will take about 4 months. Last year my husband was diagnosed with diabetes and finally gave in to a calorie reduced diet (2000). He dropped 70 lbs without exercise and with days off for holidays, vacations, family get togethers, etc.

We had to shop around for a doctor who was not a pill pusher. John refused to take cholesterol medication because of the potential liver damage and he doesn't want to take diabetes pills (he takes them anyway). My dad is really into herbs and such so he recommended (brand omitted) fish oil pills. A year later John's cholesterol was well within the healthy range (dropped about 100 points, triglicerides dropped about 300 points). His sugar levels are also well within the healthy range (dropped about 200 points) and the doctor is going to cut back on the dosage of medication this next time around.

Bottom line, I'm not asking for a miracle cure, but it sure would be nice to speed up the process of weight loss. My sister is also a diabetic and dropped weight with a combination of diet and ACV pills. I'd prefer to do the pills, but I'm going to take your advice and go get the health food store variety of ACV, take a calorie hit for the honey, and try drinking it as a hot beverage with each meal. I used to do a drink like this with lemon instead of vinegar and it was pretty good.

I'll check back in three weeks and let you know what happened.


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RE: Cider Vinegar for weight loss?

jndcarl's experiment may involve inert pills.

According to a recent study (which included evaluation of esophageal damage due to ACV pills), such products may not contain any of the claimed ingredient at all:

"Apple cider vinegar products are advertised in the popular press and over the Internet for treatment of a variety of conditions. After an adverse event was reported to the authors, eight apple cider vinegar tablet products were tested for pH, component acid content, and microbial growth. Considerable variability was found between the brands in tablet size, pH, component acid content, and label claims. Doubt remains as to whether apple cider vinegar was in fact an ingredient in the evaluated products. The inconsistency and inaccuracy in labeling, recommended dosages, and unsubstantiated health claims make it easy to question the quality of the products."


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RE: Cider Vinegar for weight loss?

My sister became interested in vinegar for weight loss in October 2005. I do not know what kind, how much or any of the particulars. She's lost 50 pounds. Is it the vinegar? Or is the coffee she stopped drinking when she started the vinegar consumption? Each cup of coffee equals 3 tablespoons of sugar plus creamer. She brewed 2 pots of coffee everyday. What she did not drink hot, she chilled in the refrigerator. I think it's the coffee. She has visited the doctor several times during the past 2 months with bladder symptons and stinging and burning during urination. Her urine sample looked like tea or coffee. I think it's the vinegar! Just look at all of the built up dirt and grime that vinegar can cut through.


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RE: Cider Vinegar for weight loss?

Sounds like the woman is not drinking enough water... vinegar may not cut it. That bad of urine.... introduce her to sugar free cranberry juice. UTI's are painful and if they are recurring, either she's got something extra going on or she's not getting enough fluid... she shouldn't keep getting it back.


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RE: Cider Vinegar for weight loss?

heathen might well be right - dramatically cutting back fluid intake can predispose to or worsen bladder infection symptoms (coffee itself is regarded as a potential bladder irritant and excess intake as a risk factor for cystitis).
Depending on how much sugar and cream was added, the coffee could have contributed a significant calorie load, so it makes sense that cutting it out contributed to the weight loss.

I question whether vinegar intake could have much impact on the bladder, whether through effect on pH (minimal to zero) or as an irritant.


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RE: Cider Vinegar for weight loss?

I appreciate any feedback! I am very concerned about my sister's general health. She is 63 and as we get older things effect our bodies a little more dramatically. I was hoping for a solution to the recent on going problem. She drinks cranberry juice and water. She buys cases of water. Whatever is going on it's getting worse. Her doctor has changed the antibiotic several times. Leviquin, Avelox, Sulfa, Ketok. She has an appointment with a urologist the end of May.


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RE: Cider Vinegar for weight loss?

Oh good... hope it gets better, I know from experience that that is very painful.


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The experiment failed

I drank cider vinegar with the mother, 2 Tablespoons at each meal for 2 1/2 weeks. I also did not exceed 1500 calories a day and I did not exercise other than the normal housework and running up and down stairs. I lost 2 lbs. but I also experienced excessive urination and if I did not dilute the vinegar enough with soup or vegetable cocktail, it burned all the way down and burned until I drank or ate something.

Then I had to go out of town for a week. I did not drink vinegar and I consumed all the calories I wanted. I gained the 2 lbs. back.

For the past week I've kept the calories below 1500 but didn't drink any vinegar or increase my exercise. I lost 1 3/4 lbs. Normally on a diet I'll lose about a pound a week until I plateau, then I just stop for a couple months being careful not to over indulge so I don't gain it back. Once my body accepts the new weight as normal, I'll start again.

Conclusion: Cider Vinegar made no noticeable difference in my weight loss.


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RE: Cider Vinegar for weight loss?

I recently started to take ACV after researching its properties on the internet. I use it as a hair rinse, but never thought of drinking it! Recently I have had a bout of nausea which seemed to last for weeks, after a day of drinking it, the nausea disappeared and I had bags of energy. Another side effect is hair growth, but I have not been taking it long enough to report any changes. Any changes will be noticeable after about 8wks. I think this is a wonder food, that can cure many ills.

My stomach feels great and the dodgy wind I was experiencing is no more! If I can lose weight and improve my health just by drinking ACV then I'm very happy. Will keep you posted of any developments.


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RE: Cider Vinegar for weight loss?

You can add televangelist Pat Robertson to the list of people supplying testimonials for cider vinegar. It seems that the stuff is one of the ingredients in his "age-defying protein shakes" (not to be confused with his "age-defying protein pancakes" and "age-defying anti-oxidants"). Pat is quoted as saying that his secretary told him that cider vinegar helps you lose weight, and that's good enough for him.

More here. The article also discusses Pat's claim that at age 73 he leg-pressed 2000 pounds, which is about 500 pounds more than the official record (set by a decathlon athlete one-third his age). So in addition to everything else, cider vinegar may help make you into Superman as well!

There's no limit to this wonderfood. :)


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RE: Cider Vinegar for weight loss?

149 posts...I think 150 is limit and wanted the honor!


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RE: Cider Vinegar for weight loss?

I don't know if ACV is good as a weight loss tool or not, i do know it is good on food and as a condiment. It must be safer to drink ACV mixed with honey in water, than those dark colored softdrinks full of phosphoric acid lol.


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RE: Cider Vinegar for weight loss?

Just a bit of food for thought, the drug companies that are trying to get a "new" drug approved by the FDA are the same drug companies that are PAYING for that testing process. Quite frankly, I don't trust any of them.

Plants were created for a purpose, many of them do have healing properties that those drug companies some people put so much stock in would go to any lengths to keep people from learning about or believing in. Tell me, what would happen if the world was to find out that ACV could help with Acid Reflux and/or chronic indigestion? *Grins* Exactly. They'd stop buying "the purple pill" and start buying ACV.

Personally, I trust the products that God made before I'd trust those which are man made. ACV is made from apples. The "mother" mentioned in this thread are simply vital nutrients and minerals our bodies benefit from which are lost in the pasteurization process of the "grocery store" brands.

ACV is acidic by nature, but when your body burns it, the ash created by the process of converting it to calories is "Base" in nature, which balances out the body's Ph. There ARE health benefits of ACV, many. But you'll never see a "clinical trial" of ACV. Why? Well think about it. Who pays the bills in a clinical trial? What drug company would want it proven clinically that ACV does the same thing as their "wonder pill?" Not to mention many prescription drugs are based after that which occurs naturally in nature.

Personally, I have taken ACV for over 3 years now. I have gone from a jean size 24 to a jean size 8. But you must remember that no "weight loss" product, no exercise, nothing works overnight. It is a gradual process. My advice? If you're going to try ACV, then make a commitment to stay on it for at least 3 months. That's how long it took before I began to see results.

The first thing I noticed was that my craving for junk food began to wane. I began to crave healthy food. I began to drink more water, I began to get full faster. I had more energy, I felt better. But I've also not been sick in 3 years. I've had kids with bad colds standing over me while I'm kneeling down at work and coughing right in my face, and not gotten sick. No stuffy noses, no sore throats, no flu.

The only time I had a problem was when I stopped taking it for a few months. I didn't realize how much ACV doing for me until then. I was miserable, I just felt like crap. And within that 2 month time frame, I gradually began to go back to eating junk. Within a few weeks of going back on ACV, I felt much, much better. Most of the weight loss I experienced occurred during the first 6 months, mainly during a 2-3 month time frame. Within a few months, I'd noticed that my clothes were a bit big. 6 months after beginning, I went up and tried on clothes to find that I was a size 10.

Concerned that there might be another reason for my weight loss I went to the doctor, and was told that I was in perfect health. I stayed on ACV because I felt good, even though I felt I had reached a plateau. And then gradually I noticed the weight dropping off again. I will stay on ACV because I know first hand what it does to me.

All the clinical trials in the world won't tell you what a pill will do for you personally. They can tell you what they think it SHOULD do, but it doesn't always work that way. You still have to take it, try it for yourself.

But, I can understand why someone in the medical field would not want people to take ACV. If enough people start doing it, and start feeling better, where would all those jobs go?

I know first hand of 2 people who were taking medication for arthritis and another one who was on medication for high blood pressure. All three of them began taking ACV, and then came to a point where they went back to the doctor and was told that they didn't need the medication anymore.

Quite frankly, a $3.75 bottle of ACV is far cheaper than $60 in copays every month for drugs. Not to mention, once you start taking one prescription medication, the side effects of that one medication invariably lead to taking another one, and then another one, until you're swimming in pills.

*shudders* No thank you. You can keep your pills and clinical trials. I'll stick to what God created. He's got a better track record anyways.


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RE: Cider Vinegar for weight loss?

Hello All.

Very interesting discussion. Just want to add to the original thread. Back in the 70's my dad was told by someone at work that 1 tablespoon of vinegar in a glass of water before bed would help him lose weight. (He had quite a big gut). We were all horrified at the notion of drinking vinegar. Anyway, he dropped a lot of weight in a very short time. We were all amazed. My sister tried it and stopped after a few weeks because she developed some sort of skin irritation on her neck and cheek. She wasn't sure if it was the vinegar so she stopped taking it. But she too had a very noticeable drop in weight. I would think pH would be a problem but a few of the posts above say that's not an issue. I have heard that a teaspoon of baking soda in a glass of water is good for getting your body back to pH balance. The same baking soda remedy a couple times a day is supposed to cure gout as well. I've never had it so don't know.

I also would like to add my 2 cents about pharmaceutical companies. I don't like them nor do I trust them. I have heard recently that medications do not break down in your body and when you urinate, it goes into fish, etc. Is this true?

Good luck everybody.


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RE: Cider Vinegar for weight loss?

I'll say first ...I have enjoyed reading all the post on here, some made good sense,however, the part on herbs not being studied is not true,Herbs is in all Medicine.Every Herb that is known to man has been studied by Scientist,They don't give the effectiveness of them for the mere fact that medicine's are made up of them.The vinegar conversations are somewhat fact and fictional, it will help with weight loss if used with exercise and the right food,it will dissolve Kidney stones over a period of time,the same as lemon juice will.It is good for the digestive tract and for food poision, its not a cure-all.Its good for yeast infections, sunburns,insect bites,and hair,amoung other things, the list goes on.For anyone to know the true effectiveness of ACV they should try it themselves, that way they wont need answers from other people.It's harmless when taken right and many of us get a dose of it daily in salad dressing, mayo,Oh and ladies by the way ....Mayo makes a good night cream. and ACV makes a good rinse for pets to repel fleas and tic's.They might smell like a pickle but they love it.


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RE: Cider Vinegar for weight loss?

After reading through these post, it is a little sad to see grown people on here arguing as if they were teenagers. Most of you have claimed that you are "old enough to remember..." blah blah blah, yet you are the main ones on here feuding with each other about a health drink, really? I'm sure most of us that got on to this website did so to read up on whether this is a good weight loss addition or not. Not to read old people arguing back and forth. With that being said, I am a young person and can say that my personal experiences with ACV has been a positive one. My mother drank it for years and so have I. My PERSONAL benefits (which might not be the same for another person, because everyone is different) were more energy, weight loss(with a controlled diet and exercise) and overall improved health.

Everyone is different, so just because it didn't work for you doesn't mean that it doesn't work at all. Please be courteous to other people, whether you agree with them or not.

Oh, and most of you should know--If you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all :)

God Bless.


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RE: Cider Vinegar for weight loss?

I read this thread thru to the last post exactly 1 month ago. I started taking ACV with honey on 4/8 and I added garlic on 4/17. I also started walking one hour every day by not taking the train home and walking from the train station at night (30 mins) and walking both ways to a place that sells smoothies during lunch (15 mins.) I would say those are the only changes I've made but because of the appetite suppressant effect of ???, I just have not been eating the same.

Before, I really couldn't control myself as far as sweets, cookies, cake and candies. At night, I would eat and go to sleep because I'd be hungry and then exhausted after I ate. Since I started, from the first day, I noticed that I just did not have an appetite. At all...as in there was a pack of chocolate chip with walnuts (my absolute favorite) in the house and I just didn't want any. All last month, I have not eaten one cookie, which is unbelievable because I would normally eat 4-6 without thinking.

In total I have lost 21 lbs. I went from an 18 to a 14. The greatest change has been in my stomach, which hung over the waist of my pants, literally. I used to be able to LIFT up my stomach. Now, I have a pudge but my stomach does not hang at all. My sides have a shape again.

I also had a lot of headaches and always felt tired and hungry. ??? helped with all of that. I have not had a headache for so long that I can't really remember when the last time I had one was. I have not been to tired to walk at all either and like I said, I don't eat at night anymore and I am not hungry for junk food.

I H-I-G-H-L-Y recommend this for everybody that is trying to lose weight, is having headaches all the time or just feels generally sick every day. You will feel better and you will definitely lose weight. I keep putting ??? because I don't know exactly if it was the ACV or the combination so I recommend the combination. Put equal amounts of honey and ACV in the blender (I used 1 cup of each) and 8 cloves of garlic and then blend it. Store in the fridge and two or three times a day, mix into a cup of water and drink it. My sister is doing this now and my best friend did it with me. She lost 15 lbs but she LOOKS like she lost even more weight than I did because she did not have a big belly before.

I really, really, wholeheartedly recommend this and I think everyone should try it.


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RE: Cider Vinegar for weight loss?

Don't make the mistake of thinking the medical community wants you well! ACV does marvelous wonders for my health, including getting rid of sinus pain and helping with weight loss.


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