Tip of the Iceberg.

When news like this actually airs on the MSM it is usually a "sacrificial lamb." This makes it appear as the "government" is doing its job. Nice that they caught them but in reality it is a "pin prick"...

The only way I see change coming is for people to start respecting themselves. To say enough is enough and take action, any action JUST FRIGGIN' DO SOMETHING. Afterall, we did something to create this situation... WE SAT ON OUR HANDS WITH A BAG OVER OUR HEADS.

Opollog,You are right of course. To turn this country(including the health care system)around. Is to revolt legally.e-mail your representatives everyday.Get your neighbors and friends to e-mail too. Flood their offices with mail.Make copies of these reports,tack them up in local hospitals,doctors offices. e-mail local news,newpapers,CNN,MSNBC,FOX. While you're at it let them know about your feeling about the economy and oil prices all in one e-mail.Too much trouble, you say. It'll be alot more trouble when you are dieing and find out you're in a third world country with no health care.I'm always hearing. "My message means nothing to anyone and does no good" Well if you think your needs are worth something.Get off your duff and send 100 messages.Work for something. Stand for something.Meanwhile you better get serious about herbalism.

Sorry, i meant patriot not opollog.

I get involved everywhere I can when I can.

I agree lets get back to herbalism.

This is too important to herbalism and medical institutional people to let slide down.

Anyone notice any medical people answering their views on this thread. Wonder how come.

The story referred to one hospital, not many hospitals, and they are being taken to task by the right people and will pay for their mistakes. Are you suggesting that no one who's into herbalism ever does anything wrong?

lucy, you should read the article. It
specifically said three hospitals. Lets not forget hospitals in NY that dumps patients out on the streets with IV.s still in their arms. There was a picture with that story. And of course the woman who died while waiting for two days in an emergency room while staff and security guards walked around her like she was a dead chicken. There was a video on that. Than there was the woman in LA who died in the same manner also caught on video. Of course there are bound to be more that did'nt come to light.

If you'd read the article you would have scrolled down to read the article linked that told of many people having to wait at least an hour for heart attacks, diabeties complications, and strokes. because so many people canot any longer afford health care in the USA, and have to wait untill They have an emergency they have to see a doctor and end up in the emergency room.

Also if you'd read the article. You'd seen that the FBI is taking care of the situation. And yes they are the best people to take care of and take to task the horrible hospital people. The FBI IS THE BEST. GO GUYS!!

Nolucy, i've never even heard of a rumor about any herbalism people being even close to that disgusting. Have you? Of course there is always the people who made millions giving illegal chelation treatments which some consider alternative medicine. Oh i forgot that was a doctor and an RN. Darn! medical people again.

Since you are a Canadain. What do you know about American hospitals?

OK, you're right, I didn't read the whole article (must have seen a video clip somewhere else), and the stories are horrifying, though I've seen versions before and I definitely agree about the chelation (though I guess I'm surprised you do). What I know about U.S. medicine? Well my father's bro., now retired, taught at Harvard for years while practicing in N. England, and his son is now a highly respected oncology specialist (I won't go into more detail now). My cousin's a senior nurse practitioner with her own practice in a large CA hospital and I (wonders will never cease!) actually read on occasion, having the same access you do to any news from anywhere both online and off. And that's apart from having worked with researchers from all over the world myself for years and years. So I don't know everything, but have picked up a few tidbits here and there...

So your family is a part of the failed medical system i America. I would'nt admit it. Course i have a neice who's a nurse practitioner. She teaches nurses in Arkansas university(U of A) Of course she belongs to a cult and does witchcraft ,She also gets mad at her dog,loses her temper and bites her dog.So much for the nurse practioner type. I do agree that Harvard
medical school is the best and Boston hospitals are the best. But thats only one of how many.Better say i know where Harvard is.

Why in the world would i approve of chelation or be intrested in it? It is very much against the law and is given by the dregs of the medical society.

i doubt seriously if you have access to All the reading sources i do and one could say i've worked in a sense with researchers for a long time also.

By the way, your response was much better than normal. Proud of you. You can make this forum a better place.

I wonder how many years you went to Nurses training. I'll bet it was 3. It use to be a 3year program. Than when the information they needed to know was quadtrippled. the amount of years for a degree went down to 2 years. That makes so much sense. My A&P instructer told me that all RNs should be required to take a refresher course every 4 years as the amount of info needed changed that much in A&P alone.The electron microscope had just come into use at that time.

Not a nurse, so no training there.

I lacked 4 months getting my RN degree when my DH had a major heart attack and by-pass surgery. Naturally i quit to take care of him and never regretted it.Was also an EMT for several years. I have been many things in my life and some as a consequence of another job. I very seldom give medical advice, mostly nonadvice. For your own sake i suggest you give less medical advice too. ; )

Hmmm, bypass surgery performed by the evil medical profession? I am always amused by how quickly those who despise the medical community count on it when the sh** hits the fan. Why didn't you call an herbalist when your husband had a heart attack? We both know why. Does your husband curse the medical community after they saved his life?

Evolution has a history of sorting these things out.

He did curse them later. as usual they screwed up and he was permanently disabled. And he died of another heart attack caused by a reaction to dye used in stress test 5 years ago after they had been told he'd had a reaction to said dye.I have no reason to be thankful to the American medical business for anything. If we had gone to Cuba or anywhere else my DH WOULD MOST LIKELY BE ALIVE TO DAY.Thank you very much!!!!!!. Note it is the AMERICAN health business i have no use for!!!!! I noticed in an article the other day That there is a grassroots movement gaining a lot of momentum to demand better health care at less cost like the rest of the third world countrys!!!!!!!
Evolution has a great way of sorting mules out also.Don't they? They cant have offspring.
Thanks for letting me bump this up again.

mule....y, Do you ever post more than once on any forum you're on? I did'nt see anyplace you had.

Are you stalking Muley?

Also w\what evidence do you have that a dye could cause a fatal heart attack after 5 years, most things work their way out of your system by that time.

Brendan, much as I admire your posts and viewpoints here, I think this time Oaklief needs an apology. Read her note again and the story about the 5 years - she said that 5 yrs after the (hospital?) had been told of her husband's allergy to dye he was given more of it, and then succumbed, not that he succumbed as a result of the original dosage 5 yrs earlier! In defense of the medical community in general however, I just want to remind people that while everyone involved with patients tries hard to do the right thing all of the time, humans being human (and tired) can and probably always will make mistakes. Doctors don't do it on purpose because they don't care, and/or are only waiting for their paycheck, it happens because maybe too many people are involved at any one time in a patient's care, all trying to 'cover' some aspect of care, and the chain of information may break at any one place on a given day. Sometimes the patient themselves, or the family needs to speak up and remind overtired techs about something like a life-threatening allergy. Of course in an ideal world the techs should have caught the 'caution' in the old chart. Maybe the charting procedures needed to be overhauled (big red stickers on the front of the charts apparently not being applied properly, or the chart just wasn't looked at by the stress lab people, who knows, but until humans become robots, such things, horrible as they are, will always happen and Oaklief's husband was just terribly unlucky that day. But it's not a reason to blame the entire well intentioned medical community of a country, much as doing so by the family is more than understandable. Do you think such things don't happen in other countries? That's pretty ridiculous! Anyhow, Brendan, do take a second look at OL's note, and Oaklief, I am very sorry about your husband, but bitterness against the entire medical establishment isn't going to do much now but continue to feed your unhappiness, so if you can manage to forgive, if not forget (that won't and shouldn't happen, of course) it just might help you to get on with life.

Dearest oaklief:

1. Your research on my postings on other sites has provided you with blatently false information. In fact, it was my postings on another forum that got me invited to check this forum out. Think about that the next time you are researching something or someone. The truth can be elusive. Especially if you don't look very hard.

2. What is the point of your question? Does it make any difference and is it any of your business? Why did you bother to look me up?

3. Are you suggesting that Cuba has a more advanced medical system than the US? If so, why do we not hear of the masses of people heading there for medical procedures? Do you know people in Cuba? I do. They can't wait to leave. Which third world county will you go to if and when you are faced with a terrible disease? Africa, where they use witchcraft to treat the AIDS epidemic? Evolution at work again.

4. Do you wish to impress me with your knowledge of mules? Good luck. How many do you own?

Thanks for your interest in me.

I'm sorry, I did misread the post. Like medical workers and aircraft mechanics I am prone to missing things on occasion too.

Cuban medical workers make erroneous moves as well it should be noted.

Oh, also Mules do not always lose out in a darwinian sense. Kin selection is a viable evolutionary force. Mammoth Jacks are a breed that was created and sustained for the purpose of making mules. Cornish rock crosses are meat birds that have major health problems, essentially its the mule problem, however cornish game birds are kept in healthy numbers to maintain a breeding stock for these useful mule like chickens. Steers also have the same problem, no ability to reproduce, but many breeds of cattle are maintained for the sole purpose of producing steers to produce steak. Like many other traits, the propensity to form mules may be bad most of the time, but at other times it can positively make the difference between extinction and continued existence.

Oh, also the wheat we eat is mostly from rare mutated mule strains, the yield is many times higher because of this, and because they formed a mule wheat the strains that lead to that initial mule have now ensured their own survival on in perpetuity, parent stock for f1 sweet corn is surviving in the same way as the mammoth jack once did as well.

(American) people are not heading to Cuba because your government won't allow them to go, or at least only those with money and know-how about getting there in convoluted ways do ever do so. Being Canadian however, has some advantages, e.g. our gov't is quite happy for us to come and go at will, and many of us vacation there routinely, as well as use their medical system when needed. NOT all Cubans want to leave by any means, and certainly those that do either did not manage to transit from the old system under Batista that allowed a handful to be very rich at the expense of everyone else, or else they just would like to be able to make more money now for whatever they do - and last time I looked, that wasn't a crime. Their medical system is fine (look up survival stats of newborns there vs those in the U.S... they're definitely doing better).

THIS NEEDS TO GO THROUGH AGAIN.

Good heavens i owe lucy another apology. I very seldom read these threads. There are such rediculous statements made by the medical groupies. But Lucy is right. Cuba is ranked right next to the USA in health care but goes ahead of us in the cost of it. Gee!! We're ranked right up there with a third world country. Is'nt that special.

Maybe our medical health care system is'nt as good as our banking system was.It was'nt ranked 3rd world. Of course it's ranked no world now. Is the health care system to follow? Same greed going on tho.

Isn't Cuba a 2nd world country?

Even if Cuba is a second world country (which i've never heard of) USA Health Care is still ranked 3rd world.
Are'nt you proud to be part of the 3rd world?

BTW, I heard on BLOOMBURG that the USA Health Care Industry is going to be the next to fail.What a blessing to mankind!!!!
Better get your ducks set up in a row.

If you look at the average health care treatment that a US citizen gets then we are near the top of the first world, the reason we are ranked so low is that our health care is not evenly distributed, those who can pay for it are the ones who get it in the US. Despite the fact that we eat more and are just as inactive as the British if you remove all car accidents and murders where the patients die before medical responders can reach them (keeping in mind that our responders are faster and get more training) then you find that the American lifespan is longer than that of the very similar British.

If you get Cancer you are more likely to survive in the US than in Canada.

If we are third world then so is the UK and so is Canada.

Also Cuba is a2nd world nation, I'm guessing that you have no idea what the terms first world, second world, and third world mean.