Socialized medicine is however a political issue completely unrelated to herbalism, and since herbalism doesn't have much in the way of answers for diabetes I don't know as if this topic really belongs all that much, Cinnamon I guess.

Could you link to where I said that? Or post a quote from me? I distinctly remember saying something that didn't involve my motivation or wishes at all.

Also I will agree that I don't know much about herbs (I do know things like the fact that blueberry and bilberry are close relatives, and not herbs but berries off of a woody plant, doesn't mean that they aren't medicinal) what I do understand are things like microbiology, and mycology and the physiological processes occurring in much of the body. I also know how to read scientific literature (which is more of an issue with apolog than with yourself, I don't believe I've seen you link to any peer reviewed literature) and can as a result suss out things that other people miss. I also know a good deal about experimental design and statistics, and logic.

All I want to do is to use reason and logic and evidence to separate the wheat from the chaff.

Certainly, there is no place for politics here either! However, it's nothing short of scandalous that a country as wealthy as the US should have so little concern for the health and well-being of its people. I can be smug about it, you see, because I live in Australia where diabetics are very well looked after with all products heavily subsidised by the government.

But on the issue of conventional medicine versus herbal medicine for diabetes, let me try to inject a little balance.

First, Brendan, you need to arrive at some sort of definition for 'a herb'. Opinions vary, but broadly speaking, if a plant, or part of a plant, has any uses to humans for the following purposes, it can be classified as 'a herb': medicinal, nutritional, cosmetic, pesticidal, culinary. Many herbs have multiple uses, and many of those uses are outside these 'categories'. Think of flax, for instance, which produces seeds which have medicinal, nutritional and culinary uses - but other parts of the plant can be used for making cloth. Some herbs are used to produce dyes, or poisons (eg for killing fish making them easy to catch), or to produce musical instruments or building materials. So the term 'herb' is a very broad umbrella indeed.

The berries you refer to are not only used for culinary purposes, but they have also been well researched and proven to have beneficial medicinal effects. Let's face it, every doctor knows the medicinal function of certain components in foods (herbs) - vitamins, minerals etc. These are undeniable! These medicinal benefits were known long, long before the word 'vitamin' was invented!

Back to the question of herbs to treat diabetes. There are quite a few herbs which can regulate blood sugar levels, and/or help prevent macular degeneration, and/or boost the ability of insulin to metabolise glucose, and/or counter insulin shock, and/or increase production of insulin (in short - to help restore normal bodily function in people with diabetes in various ways). Some of these herbs are listed below:

Ginkgo biloba, watercress, banana, cucumber, dandelion, sage, starfruit, agrimony, parsley, blueberries, mandarines, grapeseed oil, mango, lychees, spinach, fenugreek, paprika.

The difficulty with using herbal treatments for any condition, especially a difficult one like diabetes, is finding the effective dosage for each individual patient while keeping in mind the multiple uses of any herbs included in the treatment regime. As with conventional medicine, care must be taken to consider unwanted side-effects, contraindications, interactions etc.

The greatest benefit of conventional medication is the comparative ease of giving beneficial dosages. It's also much easier to administer, and to monitor a drug, than a combination of herbs.

The difficulty for some diabetic patients, as Oakleif pointed out, is that the cost of conventional medicines is beyond the reach of 'ordinary' people in many cases; whereas many of the herbs useful for diabetics can be grown in any garden, or purchased at the supermarket at a reasonable and affordable cost.

It is sad that so many people cannot afford vital medications; and that herbal medicine is such an imprecise science. Here we have two methods of treatment - surely they can go hand in hand with each other, even when dealing with such a serious condition as diabetes?

You see, many medical practitioners are unaware that many (perhaps as much as 85%, but don't quote me on that figure) of the drugs they prescribe are derived from, or synthesised copies of components of, herbs (plants). And many people who insist that 'natural' medicines are the only safe way to go do not realise that the plants they are using contain many of the same chemical components that are in conventional medications.

THAT's what I think 'separating the wheat from the chaff' really means!

The answers to your questions are no doubt to be found in relevant research papers, and on the internet.

According to my specialist, Type 2 diabetes is infrequently treated with insulin. I would suggest that it would be common-sense for insulin-dependent diabetics to continue using insulin, and not rely entirely on herbal treatments, which may or may not be successful, depending on the severity of a person's condition.

Whichever treatment regime is offered, diabetes is notoriously difficult to treat, and there is certainly no cure for it.

As to your contention that "The greatest benefit of conventional medication is the comparative ease of giving beneficial dosages" and "There are quite a few herbs which can regulate blood sugar levels, and...help restore normal bodily function in people with diabetes", this gives the impression that herbs can do the same (or better)* job as prescription drugs in treating diabetes. I know of no good evidence that this is the case - in particular I'm not aware of any well-conducted studies that've followed diabetics over long periods and found that herbal treatment worked as well as mainstream therapies in controlling blood sugar and preventing serious and potentially lethal complications. Even if the condition involved is non-insulin dependent diabetes (thanks for acknowledging that you believe insulin can be critically important in treatment of some forms of the disease), it would be quite risky for patients to assume that various combinations of herbs will do the job, especially in the absence of careful monitoring of blood sugar and other evaluation by a physician.

This is not to say that some herbal therapy, in combination with standard proven methods, can't be used to help treat diabetes with proper oversight. And cost of treatment can be an issue (the answer there is not to substitute possibly cheaper but unproven remedies, but to make effective therapy available to all who need it).

*Not even diabetes experts would claim that normalizing blood sugar through diet, exercise and medication in addition to careful monitoring can completely restore normal organ function and prevent any long-term damage.

Regardless of the exact numbers, plants will continue to be a source of effective and exciting new drugs.

*debates of other contentions in Dr. Duke's article would make for one or more additional threads of interest in this forum.