That is kinda cool i guess

Did it make any sense to you teen?

Would love to hear your input on this...what did you take from it?

Teen?

You still there???

Well.....I would welcome anyone else's opinion as well,yaknow. :P

I think the vid tells it how it is and when you get done watching it's kinda like something you sorta always knew in your gut but it's pretty nifty to hear it said.

In all seriousness,..Is this just too heavy for people to respond to?

I don't think so!

Oooo, something philosophical. I have not heard this idea explained using agriculture and cages as a metaphor before, so I enjoyed it. I personally don't agree with a couple things, but still a cool video.

Don't worry asleep, it's probably because not a whole lot of people can spend that amount of time on a video and to others it might not be their cup of tea.

THANK you for posting!

What did you disagree with?

Obviously there are no wrong answers here...I'm just happy to get other people's input on this!

I welcome death. Not like i go looking for it or anything. But if i were to die or have to die. I would accept that. I dont feel controlled by it nor do i feel enslaved by any person place or thing. Interesting video though

Personally I don't think I would be willing to accept it...I mean OBVIOUSLY one day I will HAVE to but in the meantime I can't seem to wrap my head around it...just doesn't seem right that I should only live for so many years and then keel over...but one day I will. Frankly it's my belief that it is the motivator behind most everything we do...running around like crazy trying to get things done because we only have so much time and we are trying to experience a "full" and :well lived" life.

Of course the whole bit about how death makes us controllable is just the first five min(if that) of the video. So much more to discuss here...assuming anyone is willing. :)

I always tell myself i will live forever yet i know i wont

What did you take from the vid,teen?

Asked you upthread but I'm guessing you missed that.

I'm beginning to wonder if anyone is actually watching the video passed the first few minutes. :/

edit: Auron22 being an exception. I appreciate it too! :)

This post was edited by asleep_in_the_garden on Thu, May 16, 13 at 18:20

you got me!!!!!!!!!!!! i had to go to class. in school!!!! LOL!!!ð©ðÂÂÂ

Okay then. Sorry I bothered ya. :)

Its okay

OK, AITG, I watched the whole thing. I would not call it cool. Very heavy. And very dark. And very true, I'm afraid, except that...
truth/reality is not one thing, like a flat piece of paper, it's more like a faceted jewel, and each face that you gaze through shows a different perspective of reality.
At the end it says see the cage, and break free.
I think a more meaningful piece might have considered a number of means of breaking free, and destinations to be found after that.
Really, there's enough stuff to talk about here for hours and hours. This video is all about the dark and terrible, but the light and constructive also exist, so I think it finally comes down to the reality you construct for yourself, since there's very little you can do about the mega-world, except to be the best you can be in your own context.

"There is very little you can do"

Yes...I sincerely agree. At the end the narrator says that to see the farm is to leave it,,,but where to go,right?
To be independent of the grid entirely would be next to impossible but I'm assuming that this is what he is suggesting.

Now as to being the best you can be in your own context,I can see that needing a little more elaboration as to who's perspective is valid,surely one's own should be most important but I know that we are influenced by outsiders to a large disagree.

....Was it really that dark? hmmm...

Yes, I thought it was dark. Anything that sees the motive force of human evolution as the fear/threat of death, and the history of human culture as the exploitation of the many by the uncaring few, and the dissolution of all society as the inevitable and imminent doom -- yea, I'd say that's pretty dark. Not to mention all the images of death, slaughter, torture, etc. But then, I'm a woos. (wus? woose? wuhs? don't think I've ever seen that word written down.)

But as to being the best you can be, I think that ultimately that is a quest each person must undertake on their own. Religions offer rule books, which work for some and not for others. I think it requires great consciousness, self-examination, and honesty, and the path is often unclear - being the best you can be if you're an honest hard working logger in California is probably going to be in direct opposition to being the best you can be woman dedicated to saving old-growth redwood.

I personally have to believe that life is an incredible gift, and should be lived so as to cause as little harm to other living things as possible.

I also believe that among all the errors and faults to which human kind is prey, fascism is among the worst. And since that little video was about nothing but fascism supreme - the power of might over every thing and everyone, from the past, in the present, and for all of the future - yes, I would say it was pretty dark.

It makes for some good discussion, though.

The word is wuss...and I do not think that you are one. :)

I don't know that I would describe the video as fascist as much as instead pointing out how the many are controlled by the few and always have been in one way or another...which is to say that it doesn't by any means say even once that it is the way it should be. quite the contrary actually...at the very beginning there is the mention of how you can finally be free...but again at the end when he says that to see the farm is to leave it,I'm not 100%sure what the narrator is getting at...unless he means adopting a survivalist mentality and living under a rock somewhere.

WUSS! Couldn't find it in my dictionary (old fashioned paper, probably is on the ether version) "learn something new every day" is my motto...now I can go back to bed.

But seriously, when I say fascism, I'm using the word in its broad, socio-political meaning, not as a name for a particular political movement. Maybe fascistic would be a better term. As such, it is exactly the control of the many by the few through the use of threat and violence. So I stand by calling the piece "fascistic," because it seemed to me that was what the author was portraying.

As to what the author was getting at, we're not sure, and he(or she) is probably not sure either. As has ever been the case with anarchists (don't you love all these big words.) Problem is, when you get a group of animals together - people, wolves, buffalo, parrots, ants, doesn't matter - someone has to be in control.

Anarchists want to replace the control of the many by the few with the control of the many by none. Won't work, Has been proven not to work (look at any revolution you like.) Can't work, because we are group/pack/herd animals. We're at least a couple of evolutionary changes away from being able to maintain a viable society without having someone or group of someones in charge.

The real question, it seems to me, should be how to turn the tools of control away from the threat/violence/pain/death types to more benign practices. I don't think the profit motive is necessarily a bad thing, and it seems to be at least as strong in humans as the fear of death, if not stronger. Replacing fear/threat with profit/threat of loss of profit seems to be a good interim measure as we as a specie struggle away from our worst, most destructive inclinations.

Whoa, the going is getting pretty heavy here. This is what, a plant forum? Just proves, again, how strange plant people can be.

Speaking of your "cool video," it starts with the premise that the fear of death was what separated humans from other animals. I don't think that's what it was at all. Larger brains = increased language/abstraction capabilities, maybe. Any thoughts?

Someone has to be in control,...but greed and corruption are intrinsic human nature. We need resources to survive... therefore we do everything in our power to attain them,but soon we find that survival isn't enough,we have to "thrive" and the moment we see someone with something we don't realize we "need"(don't have yet) yet we go after that as well. There is no such thing as too much money. If an opportunity presents itself to "get ahead" of our neighbor we jump at it. Just human nature...animal nature...all life is in competition for survival...but back to the point... People need leadership but leaders are only human and they will succumb to corruption time and again.

Anarchy ...
hmmm...
There is always control. Ultimately those with the power make the rules. When the people feel that the powerful are oppressing them they tend to rise up and pull their governors down...and then instal their own people who will eventually end up doing the same thing all over again because it's in us to abuse power.

A profit motivated system,eh?
Well...
I think I covered that somewhat a little earlier...again you can count on corruption screwing any chance of that working up in a heartbeat. And as for our most destructive inclinations go,this is also just business as usual. The "farmers" will allow some of the "livestock" on the payroll thus insuring that the upstarts will turn on their own. And who could blame them,right?...We would sell out in a minute for the right price. Meanwhile the pursuit of more and more money is just as much a fear of death as anything else. We secure ourselves as much as possible in an attempt to escape it or put it off as long as possible with medicine and whatever else we can buy that promises(often falsely)a longer lifespan.

I am a plant person.
I am weird.

There.
That felt good! :)

Sophisticated language skills are what separates us from the animals and is likely why our frontal cortex has evolved the way it has. So as we began to be able to communicate abstract thought,we then began to question death and the answers never were easy to swallow when we realized that it was waiting around the corner for each of us. So we go through life pretending it isn't there to the best of our ability....but it's the motivation behind everything we do.

Looks that way to me anyway.

little late to the party here. but wanted to say good for you for posting this information on here. i also did not watch the whole thing but have certainly given this topic much thought.

someone has to be control - who controls a flock of birds? there is actually some research into how groups of animals are constantly voting with various verbal and non verbal behaviors and then when a consensus is reached action is taken.

greed and corruption are intrinsic to human or animal nature - i do not believe this to be the case. these things are very much taught. i would suggest this is a major reason children are pushed into school and sports prior to the age of six.

the other thing is...i am not a dog, giraffe, monkey or any other animal. while we have some things in common, just by the fact we are participating in conversation, thoughts like this etc we can see there is something fundamentally different about humans. we (at least here in us) are in no way in a position where we are fighting for survival.

and even if we were in that position, darwins book mentions the word "love" close to 100 times and the term "survival of the fittest" twice.

we are way past instinct. but we still love to give our power away to whatever we can. external saviors - jesus, obama, science, it just my nature, whatever the case may be. takes all the responsibility off of our shoulders and we stay stagnate waiting for someone to save the day.

SR.....
Hi. Glad you jumped in. I'd forgotten all about this interesting exchange until your comment appeared in my email.
I saw a thing the other day talking about how recent brain studies have shown that all incoming information is processed through the limbic sytem, a very old part of the brain, that categorizes according to the basic response needed - fight or flight. In other word, basic emotional responses that all animals share.
The essence of humanity, I think, is using our ability to categorize with words, to overcome basic emotional responses, and find the rational and constructive responses.

Sr,
I agree that we are way past instinct,..but certainly you'd agree that we still respond to them and to some extent they still control us.
Waiting for someone to save the day is as simple as domesticity itself. Humans are no different than the other animals in that we as children are some much like other mammalian young,..dependent on our parents. A domestic animal is provided for and therefore stays a dependent by remaining in it's juvenile state of mind...if that makes any sense.

FW,
"Overcoming basic emotional responses" That's interesting.
Like to hear more on that.

This post was edited by asleep_in_the_garden on Tue, May 27, 14 at 19:03