Thanks! It seems to me that the soil my cyclamen came in is very heavy when it should be fast-draining.

Soil is something that confounds me. How would I go about mixing a fast-draining soil for my little cyclamen?

I bought bags of Miracle Gro Sphagnum Peat Moss and Perlite, and Scott's premium potting soil, but I've since learned that commercially mixed soils seems almost universally despised and I should mix my own.

I'd be happy to if I had any idea where to start.

Commercially prepared soils are far from being universally despised, and I'll explain why. First, if we're going to lump all commercially produced soils into a group, we need do do some objective qualifying. Every commercially prepared soil isn't the bane of every plant, but an extremely high % of them (almost all) make it more difficult to grow in than need be.

There are two reasons I can see ..... well, three really.. The first is, many are very simply unaware there are much better alternatives. The second is the convenience factor. I'm forever talking about soils, not because the subject represents a single small topical (sp intentional) island where I'm comfortable, but because it is the topic representative of the largest leap forward most of us could (or did) take on our journey toward something closer to excellence in our container growing endeavors. Some people DO understand that the highly aerated soils represent a significant potential for improvement over heavy, water-retentive soils, but are unwilling to move in that direction because of the additional effort involved. That isn't to say that those who place a higher value on convenience are wrong, they simply order their priorities according to what is most important to them. It's easy to see that the busy mom or someone holding down 2 jobs ..... the busy executive, (a long list) simply may not have the time or inclination to chase down the ingredients and make their own soils. Different strokes ....... The third reason is that someone actually believes that the commercially prepared soil they use is better than what they could make themselves. It isn't. You can see these commersoils are not universally despised and they do satisfy a want - of the grower though, more than the growee. I would hope that before anyone gets upset with those statements, they examine them closely to see if they are not true, or perfect in their logic.

Mixing a fast-draining, well-aerated soil that won't collapse (refers to the structure of the soil) within the interval it's reasonable to go between repots isn't difficult. With just a little education about the ingredients 'out there' and available to make these soils, along with redirecting your focus to the concept that your soils' structure should be by far and away the primary consideration when it comes to choosing or building one, you'll be well on your way.

Because I've literally seen the results of so many people touched by the same message I just delivered to you, I can say without blinking that if you get an understanding of how soils work and how to make a good one under your belt, it will almost certainly represent the largest step forward that you could make in your search for proficiency.

Everyone wants a pretty plant that grows well, but that goal isn't reached by starting at the top. You have to start at the bottom, at the roots, to achieve that goal. It's simply not possible to have a healthy plant with a compromised root system.

If you're interested in learning about soils, just say the word & I'll point you in the right direction.

Best luck, Wolfey.

Al

Thanks Al! I'm definitely interested in soils, and I've started following some of the discussions you've started here, but much of it right now--with my limited experience--is too technical for me to follow. Do you know of any resources that can break things down simply for someone who doesn't know the differences between peat, bark, perlite, soil, sand, crushed granite, all different composts, etc., and the minerals/nutrients in each?

First lesson: Growing in containers is strikingly different than growing in the ground. In the ground, the axiom that beseeches us to feed the soil instead of the plant rings as very true. In containers, we should be thinking about the soil's structure first; that is to say, the ability of the soil to hold a favorable amount of both air and water for whatever would be the reasonable interval between repots. So if you think about a soils STRUCTURE first, you're on the right track to the easiest way to keep plants healthy, consistently. Wanting to know how many minerals and nutrients are in varied soil components before you build a soil, would be paralleled by the need to know how many grains of sand on the beach before you build a sand castle - it's just not important. You can provide all the nutrition your plants need in regular applications of one fertilizer - problem solved.

I'm not going to spoon feed you every bit of information you need (not said in a snotty or indignant way, at all). If you're willing to do some reading, I'll provide you with an understanding of how water behaves in container soils, which as you can see from what I wrote in my previous post is something that represents a very significant forward step.

Still with me and still interested? If not, I won't go through the effort of repeating information most have heard more often than they would prefer. To start, I'll leave you 2 links that I think will help immensely. There are pictures and discussions to be found in the threads that should fill in most of the gaps. After reading through the threads, you can ask questions there, or here.

If you decide there is more to soils than you care to master (it's easy), or if you decide you would rather utilize something based on its convenience, I can show you to a thread that will help you work with soils that might be more water-retentive than you prefer. I'll let you decide, but in any case, I can direct you to something that should be helpful if given a hint as to your direction.

I think that if you follow this link first, it will provide the most help.

But, this link represents a very good discussion about soils on this, the 'Houseplants' forum.

Finally, you'll find a lot of good information directed at houseplant beginners below. This may actually be the best place to start.

Al

Here is a link that might be useful: An overview for beginners or less experienced houseplant growers

Note from a serial cyclamen killer:

I've popped the latest two into the gritty mix, with fantastic results!

The one that's been with me longest was a gift from my S.O. nearly a year ago & it has re-bloomed (a serious milestone for me!), which prompted me to buy another this fall from the mark-down rack at the grocery store.

Both are doing very well in a S-facing window & the gritty mix allows me to meet their thirsty needs without risking rotting the corm. They seem to come in a really heavy peaty mix that just leads to rot.

GB

I'm glad, GB - mostly for your success, but also for the timely example of where the effort was (hopefully) justified by the reward.

It's interesting that in looking up the address info for the links I left above, I came across one of your comments that brought a smile to my face. I'll mail it to you.

Al

:D

Everybody seems to be quite happy in their new conditions Al!

Maybe I'll try ferns again someday...

No spoon feeding required -- I'm a big girl! I've been doing quite a bit of reading and have been drowning in the sheer volume of information here on GW. Things that are second nature to many of the people here, so not usually broken down to the most basic level, are completely new to me. The links you provided were very helpful though, and put a lot of what I'd been sifting through into context. I have a much better grasp of soil mechanics now, though I still have some questions.

From what I understand, my cyclamen soil is probably very peaty and the roots are rotting. It won't help to add perlite or sand, because of the pudding analogy. (because adding perlite in pudding still acts like pudding, yes...?)

It seems like I should repot with my own gritty mix, which is where I next run into trouble.

The recipe for houseplants listed at one link seems to be the same as the recipe for your gritty mix, which I think GB references. As this is what I'm working off of, please let me know if this ISN'T healthy sounding for my cyclamen:

1 part uncomposted screened pine or fir bark (1/8-1/4")
1 part screened Turface
1 part crushed Gran-I-Grit (grower size) or #2 cherrystone
1 Tbsp gypsum per gallon of soil
CRF (if desired)

I really want to save my cyclamen. I want to give it and my other plants a good, healthy environment to recuperate and get big and strong in. However, the lengths I am able to go to in order to achieve this are limited by my 40-50 hr work week, lack of a car, and living in Brooklyn. Given these limitations, I want to know how to best approximate the gritty mix above.
Turface: seems pretty hard to find around here. I've seen that people used Napa Floor Dry 8822 or Carquest 8033 to substitute, and I've also seen pumice suggested. Napa Floor Dry seems to be the most accesible for Brooklynites, with one location at 797 4th Ave in Gowanus (phone is 718.965.2220).

Crushed granite: I'm a little stumped here. I haven't been able to find accessible distributers for Gran-I Grit, Manna Pro Poultry Grit, or #2 Cherrystone (my preference) in Manhattan, Queens or Brooklyn. Part of it is that I'm not really sure what kind of vendors would sell these things. They have to be around here, right? Has anyone found these? What about acceptable substitutes? (The Supplies by State/Region thread is unhelpful for the car-less in this instance.)

Pine/Fir Bark: Someone suggested Aged Pine Bark Fines from Enrich at the Gowanus Nursery. On the off chance that they don't carry this, what do you all think of substituting Better-Gro Orchid Bark (link below)? Does anyone have other substitutes and supplier suggestions (if not specific to the NYC area, then the types of places I should call around to)? I would like to avoid the expensive petstore alternatives.

Gypsum: Is it true that most hardware stores sell gypsum? What form does it come in? How is it applied to the mix?

Most importantly, based on your experiences how would you amend the 1:1:1 recipe for a cyclamen? Is it fine as is, or should the proportions be slightly drier or wetter for this plant?

My cyclamen is now completely drooped and shriveling. The leaves aren't totally yellow, but neither are they the deep green they were. The flowers are shriveled. Most of the stems aren't mushy, though it is probably just a matter of time.

I figured I couldn't hurt it more than it was, stuck in that wet pot, so I took it out and shook off all the dirt, and repotted it loosely into a drier pot that used to house a cactus. There didn't seem to be many roots, but the corm still seems firm. This isn't an ideal situation, obviously.

I've read here and there about keeping distressed plants in clear plastic bags while they recuperate. Might this help with my cyclamen? I haven't tried it because their leaves are supposed to stay away from water... And should I remove the leaves and stems? They don't easily detach with a sharp tug so I left them on, but now I'm thinking that maybe the leaves and flower stems are siphoning off much needed energy that should go towards root repair.

Assuming I can get all the components this week, I'll be able to repot earliest on the weekend. Hopefully I won't be too late!

Here is a link that might be useful: Better-Gro Orchid bark

W - I'm going to sort of follow your post and add my comments as I go, based on the order of your questions, so my reply may seem a little disjointed. First, if you considered yourself a beginner not long ago, it sounds like you've made a LOT of progress. Based on feedback not only from forum settings, but from groups I regularly address, I can say that an understanding of how soils work, and how to determine what is/isn't a good soil choice will serve you very well in all your container gardening endeavors, and you seem to be well on your way.

MI has had an unusually warm winter & I have cyclamen blooming in the garden now. They like dry shade (outdoors) and thrive in cool temps. Indoors, they like cool temps, bright indirect light, and a soil that drains freely and doesn't hold perched water. The gritty mix at a 1:1:1 ratio does fit that bill very nicely, even allowing me to water ALL my succulents along with most of the rest of my plants (even in winter) on a 3 day schedule with no problems with root issues.

Cyclamen often take a rest & die back after blooming. When they do, just allow them to rest in a dry soil & when things cool down, start watering them again, and fertilize when you see new growth. Repotting when they are resting is a snap.

There is a thread over in the Container Gardening forum in which a lady mentions she found Turface & grower grit, and the company delivers for a small fee. You might try contact her or post to the thread.

You can substitute the calcined DE (floor dry) for Turface if you want, just use a little less. You can also sub coarse, screened and rinsed perlite (rinsing eliminates much of the fluoride in various compounds associated with perlite) for granite if you can find it. If you do, let's talk briefly about changing the ratio of ingredients to adjust for perlite's added water retention (vs granite). I'll sort of stand by & wait to see what you come up with.

Many wonder to themselves if making a soil could possibly be worth all the trouble. Most of the issues usually center around the frustration of locating the ingredients. After you locate your sources and have a supply of ingredients, it's a piece of cake to mix a batch of soil. All I can say is it is sooo easy to grow in the gritty mix, and most of the problems associated with compromised root systems will simply vanish. The downside, I guess, is that most of us who so enjoy helping others will have to find something else to do. ;-)

Size is important when it comes to the gritty mix. If the fir bark in the bag you pictured is 1/8-1/4 (ideal), or even just a little bit larger, use it.

We can talk more about the gypsum/Epsom salts after you decide on what fertilizer you'll use. Why not make it a moot issue and go with Foliage-Pro 9-3-6? It supplies all the essential elements at the ratio in which plants use them, and doesn't utilize urea as it's N source, which helps keep plants bushy and compact. It takes all the guesswork out of nutrition other than application timing.

If your corm is firm and you repotted into a near dry soil, I'd bet you're going to be fine.

Plants are shedding organisms. If a plant part is using more energy than it's producing, the plant recognizes this through the chemical messengers that are by-products of the plant's metabolism and will shed the parts on its own. Often, plants that are dying are having their nutrients and usable bio-compounds harvested from the dying parts & translocated to other plant parts - in the case of your plant, likely to the corm; so I would just let nature take it's course until the parts are so dry you know there is no more water moving to carry the harvested nutrients/compounds.

Clear plastic bags would work ok for plants that have severely compromised root systems and can't move water to the foliage. Repotting large plants or removing large fractions of their root systems out of season, especially deciduous plants, is where you most often see tenting employed - as a propagation aid for cuttings (no root system), too.

I hope that covers most of your questions. If you have more ...... don't be bashful.

Al

Here is a link that might be useful: Turface & granite in NYC - Queens, I think

Wolfy, I've used Floor-Dry & also subbed pumice for the granite, & robbed from my partner's perlite bags too... Repti-Bark from the pet store works in a pinch, although the $20 bag from PetSmart is smaller than the $20 bag of orchid bark I bought at the SunShoppe in Ballard...

As for trying to detach mooshy cyclamen stems, it is GRODY! Especially when the stem smushes in between your fingers and slides along the stringy core - eeeewww!

GB

Three days and some diminished eyesight later I think I'm beginning to get a handle on it!

It would probably be best if I stuck to the original formula, so I called up the one place I found (Animal Feeds Inc, in the Bronx) and learned they use a large and small size of National Pigeon Grit, made in Massachusetts. I can't find a website or any discussion of it online, but the fellow told me that he noticed it contained calcium and a few other vitamens on the bag.

This place is over an hour away, but I can make it there if this sounds acceptable.

I'm still waiting to hear back from the thread you linked me, but I've spent hours now trying to track down places I can commute to and if this brand doesn't work I think I'm out of luck.

In the event that I'm out of luck on the grit, would the Miracle Gro perlite I already have be an adequately coarse substitute (after screen and draining)?

I'll take your advice and go with Foliage-Pro 9-3-6.

For gypsum, is all gypsum created and sold pretty much equally, or should I be on the lookout for a particular brand(s), avoid others?

Thanks for the link to the supplies thread and your continued patience!

Gravyboots - thanks!

When you sub the pumice and perlite, how do you do it? Ratios? Special prep (particularly for the pumice)?

I hear you on the grossness of de-steming too! Ewwwwww...

You won't need the gypsum with the 9-3-6, or the Epsom salts. Skip any grit that has additives or is made from shellfish. If you substitute perlite, it should be larger than what fits through a standard size kitchen strainer and up to 3/16". Usually, the MG perlite is going to be too fine. The pumice will work great if you can find it fine enough.

If you need enough of any one or two ingredients so you can make/try the soil - just let me know & I'll be happy to send along enough to get you started. Normally, if it was during a part of the year when I could send live plants without them arriving as plantscicles, the request would net you a number of unusual plant starts as well. ;-)

Don't worry about the patience part. For anyone with a little enthusiasm and a desire to learn, I have tons; especially so when it's obvious you're working hard at it and getting most of 'it' through your own effort.

Al

Good to know on the gypsum. By additives, do you mean the vitamins this fellow mentioned, like calcium, or are those standard? In the painfully-noob question vein, I assume I should only be looking for perlite that DOESN'T already have added fertilizer, correct?

Thank you for the generous offer of supplies, but I'll see what I can do about the perlite and pumice before I hit you up for that!

*sigh* plantsicles. I totally just killed my brand-spanking-new wandering jew a couple of nights ago when I deliriously opened the window in the middle of the night. Looks like boiled beets right now - not a green stripe left...

Yes - perlite sans fertilizer is best. By 'no additives' I meant nothing added (like vitamins or Ca) or there by default. Crushed granite, quartz, quartzite (cherrystone,) silica, in the right sizes are best choices. I think I mentioned before that size is important?

Al

Wolfey, is this your first Cyclamen?

Cyclemens are considered short-lived plants, but can go on for years.

It's normal for Cyclamen leaves and flowers to yellow and die back. 'That's the reason they're called short-lived plants. After flowering, most people toss them.'

After flowers die, usually a second or even third bunch pop up. Then they go in a dormancy 'sleep' period.
Once this happens, withhold ALL ferilizer, reduce water and let them rest. Remove spent blooms and faded, yellow leaves.

They rest from 3-6 weeks, depending on the Cyclamen. Soon, new leaves grow in.
Apply half-strengh fertilizer. I normally add an All Purpose fertilizer (for leaf growth) until it's nearing their next flowering season. Around Sept they get flowering fertilizer.

That's about it.

Three important facts.
Cyclamen do not like too much heat. They prefer a cool room.

An excess amount of artificial heat will cause flowers to fade quicker..In some cases, Cyclamen Mites will attact this plant. Check for webbs.

Last, I bottom-water my Cyclamens. They're in saucers a little deeper than standard types.
I allow water to sit in a second container 24-hours or until room temp.
I fill the saucer..After 30 minutes, excess water is discarded. Never allow water to sit in a saucer.

That's about it. I wish you luck, Toni

Beware that Pigeon Grit!!

I bought some & it was covered in what looked to be the same material as those tasty red salt blocks for livestock.... I popped some in my mouth & it was salty :(

I rinsed it for a few days (to "get my money's worth"), but I don't think it is a good substitute! I did have to screen the pumice; I used in the same ratio as the granite, since it not absorbent like perlite.

GB

Damn! Had a reply all typed out, but it never posted...

Hopefulauthor: It is indeed my first cyclamen. Been slightly traumatic, watching those beautiful blooms and leaves turn to mush... How can you tell the difference between the natural dormancy cycle and true death? I might just be freaking out, but it went downhill just this week after I doused it. And there were new blooms.

GB: Thanks for the info. Looks like National Pigeon Grit is a bust.

AL: HOWEVER! When I went to return my MG bags I stumbled upon something called Pearl Stone Decorative Soil Cover, which is really just a silly name for some irregularly shaped rocks. The particle size ranged from 1/8" at the very smallest to just a little bigger than 1/4". The bag doesn't tell me the kind of stone, but it probably wouldn't have additives.

The Mosser Lee website says, "Mosser Lee Pearl Stone represents the finest in quality rock bedding. The small particles are perfectly designed to loosen heavy soils and provide excellent bases for any gardening or craft project. Pearl Stone�s rich grey color and small dimension are designed for creative creations."

Would these work?

Well, I guess the point of the granite is that you know it holds water, and this might not. I also found lava rocks though, and other decorative rocks from Whitney Farms. Does anyone have any positive experience with these?

If not, I'm officially throwing in the towel on grit and turning to pumice and course perlite.

City gardening is *inconvenient*!

Here is a link that might be useful: Mosser Lee Pearl Stones

I would keep the pearl stone in the back of my mind as a last resort if you can't find the grit or coarse perlite, and the lava rock/pumice proves too large.

BTW - the only water granite holds is in the surface irregularities and on its surface. Its purpose in the gritty mix is actually to reduce water retention as a product of it's lack of internal porosity.

Al

Wolfey. Each Cyclamen differs to a degree. Through my own experiences with Cyclamen, pink flowers last a little longer than white or other colors.

Some flower once for, let's say a month, others bloom consecutively..'while first flush are fading, another pops up, etc.'

Cyclamen lets us know when they need rest by yellowing leaves.
How long have you had yours? Add the time you had it plus time it sat in a store/nursery. Toni

But, it's Normal for flowers to fade and leaves yellow and die back.
The plant is telling you it needs its dormant period.

I've had mine since the first week in December. I picked it up in full bloom at Home Depot, where the turnover is pretty high. I don't imagine it was there for more than a couple of days, since there were still plenty to choose from.

Thanks Toni

Wolfey, since your Cyclamen was in full bloom the first week of December, that's almost 2 months flowering.

IMO, it's going dormant.

BTW, did you repot? Repotting isn't a good idea when a plant is flowering, especially plants forced to flower.

If it's rootbound, the best time to repot is early spring or 6-8 weeks after dormancy. Toni

I didn't repot until it started to look like death, and then I did a haphazard job of it because I just wanted to get it out of its wet soil.

I'm planning to do a proper job of it this weekend.

How long will it stay dormant before starting to go green again? When will I know if it's in trouble?

Wolfy, if your plant gets techy after all this excitement & decides it's time for a rest, you'll know. As long as it still has a few leaves & the corm isn't squishy or crumbly, just keep attuned to when it wants a sip of water & it will bounce back! Anticipate that it will rest for sure some time this spring though, then come back refreshed in the fall.

After it was done blooming, my cyclamen corm lost all but a few leaves pretty quickly... I moved it to a well-treed west window for the summer months (plus, I'm on the east side of a hill!), where it held a few scrawny, sad little leaves & I watered as needed (those 4 leaves will be wilty when it's thirsty tho, just like when it's in good form).... it started putting on nice leaves again in the fall & has been blooming for several months now, still putting up new buds.

In an earlier post, Al mentioned that the FP 9-3-6 fertilizer promotes compact growth & I've certainly noticed that with the older cyclamen: the flowers are still nice & tall, but the leaves are quite stout, not leggy at all... it makes the newer one look funky & very stretched!

GB

PS - keep an eye on the dying flowers: if you get one that keeps a firm stem & starts to arc so the flower head is headed for the soil, it has seeds - they stuff them into the dirt!

Wolfy. When a plant is ill, any plant, repotting only adds more stress.
Of course, if the soil was drenched, especially if its container didn't have drainage holes, I understand why you repotted.
Otherwise, you should have stopped watering until soil dried.

Did you repot in the same size pot or larger?
Repotting while flowering is a no-no.

Remember I said Cyclamens differ by species?

Sometimes, 'after 'X' weeks,' new leaves grow in while the older leaves yellow and die.
Other times, all leaves die back, then after the resting period ends, new foliage grows.

When will you know is it's in trouble?
If tubers rot/mush and foliage never regrows.

Certain plants, especially short-lived flowering plants, need to be rootbound..Tight-fitting roots promote blooms.

You probably bought a Florist Cyclamen--C persicum.
However, there are dwarf Cyclamens, too. Dwarves and mini's need small pots...some are 6" and smaller.

Wolfey, do you have other plants, or is Cyclamen your first? Toni

I had this plant on oct2nd , 2012, healthy, with flowers. I was told to water it when the soil is dry, I did for 2 weeks but she started to get yellow leaves, the flowers are dying on me, the stems are becoming soft, and the little ones that were coming top from bottom are dry now! I read on a page to take the plant out and put her on the towel, I did but she's not looking healthy AT ALL. Please tell me what to do, I love this plant. Help me.

Persiangirl. Did your Cyclmen recently flower?

It's normal for leaves to yellow and die, but soon, 'give or take 4-6 weeks,' new foliage sprouts.

Once leaves yellow, stop fertilizing..let Cyclamen rest. Water less. Remove dead foliage as new foliage grows..
Cyclemen does not like hot rooms.

It's true, soil needs to dry between waterings, 'otherwise tubers will rot,'..When a drink is needed, bottom water.

Clyclens are usually purchased as short-lived plants, but with a little care, they can go on for years..
Truthfully, it's not your basic plant with minimal care. Good luck, Toni