well just so you know i can be a bit arrogant at times to (not meaning to but confident sometimes comes across that way) as i too am comfortable in my own skin and it overlaps sometimes and i become a bit arrogant...so we can just be arrogant at times together lol. I think it comes across that way sometimes when your comfortable in what you know well. you know the old saying "cocky but confident"...but you find the older you get some of the more confident things head south lol. You dont have to in any way convince me of being genuine i believe you are. And just so you know it may be a personality flaw but you kind of always know where you stand with me...so i am glad you are the kind of person that likes that :)...cause i would never intentionally hurt anyone's feelings. just wanted to point out from experience that often what comes out in text is not always the way someone meant to say it, and if in person the expressions on someone's face would have told the person they were interacting with that. so i think you may just get a bad wrap sometimes from some peeps and on the other hand probably get hounded a bit when you deserve to also...i think it all works out in the end :) the funny thing is i think you like the hounding and debating of it all, so it works for you. i was two and a half years prelaw before nursing and all my coworkers say i would have made a great lawyer as well lol...i work with a bunch of heifers :)

what i do know is i think and can see from posts i have read that what you use to grow your plants in works well and i want to learn more about it. I also know that i am going to be a mix of someone who wants the best for my plants but also i want the convenience for me. So there you have it i am going to be a selfish plant loving gardener, that is who i am lol. but i am very interested in learning more from you and from everyone else on the board...i think the mix of all you guys work.

as for the link...i loved it. again i have noticed that many of your plants does not seem to be in pots that have drainage and that confused me a bit. i was thinking the soil was primarily for good drainage and aeration and how can that be without drainage holes in the pots. then it intrigues me cause as you know i to have many plants in non draining pots, so i am curious as to your thoughts on that!

The kitten is beautiful...especially in the third pic you see how cute. i have four cats and yes i am running a zoo here lol. between the wildlife and the plants it like being on safari :). so sorry to hear of your best friend i know how that feels...i think i became close to my animals after two of my three children left the house. real empty nest going on, although i did not even realize it until way down the road.

i thank you for all you have taught me thus far and plan to learn much more from you and the rest of the crew here if you guys will have me :)...thanks bunches for not looking up my ip address and coming and choking me lol

Al:

Shadow was a beauty. I am sorry for your loss. My 16-year-old German Shorthaired Pointer, Olivia, died nearly four years ago and it still hurts. I know what you mean about the kitten helping. We had other pets ... and now a new Shih Tzu boy, four-month-old Russell.

Still, there will never be another Olivia.

Linda

Linda - thank you. I never would have dreamed how I would be affected by the loss. It's still hard to even TALK about it.

I'm glad we found something in common, and sad about what it is. I used to breed & train GSHPs as a younger man, and I love that breed - so even tempered and smart - anxious to please, devoted, great with kids ..... much like a Lab or GT in temperament. I think the GSH would have always been my favorite breed if I hadn't found such an exceptional example of the standard poodle in my friend, Ticen. He literally smiled at every visitor and sucked up their attention (pets) without ever being cloying. He just had a very gentlemanly way of making everyone seem like an important part of his life. I hope there's a heaven for pets if they're not waiting when we get there. Thanks again.

YM - I mentioned above that I deleted what would have seemed like me trying to explain away the 150 post thread comment. Much of it centered around the difference between self assured or confident in what I'm saying and arrogance. I think the reinforcement I've received from thousands of members here and in the outside gardening community, plus the level of the information from which my understanding comes (from university level texts and from regularly and actively rubbing elbows with some pretty horticulturally savvy people as opposed to having read a few vanity press published plant books), joined with the fact that I know what I DON'T know, instills the confidence that many take for granted is arrogance. If people just look away from the sometimes bitter exchanges they see me in, and that they are limited to only a very few people, they'll see the side of me that has the same feelings as everyone else. They'll see a person that takes honest criticism very well, and even welcomes it. If it's heartfelt, you can say it. I really don't mind.

You can call me arrogant, and tell my why, and I'll listen, try to see it from your perspective, evaluate what you said, and try to use it to be a better man if it fits; and I won't ignore it if it's uncomfortable (it's not). Does it seem like I'm angry with you for calling me arrogant, or that I'm cooking up a scheme to get back at you? ;-)

I have no use for people who antagonize because they lack the ability to compete, who snipe & throw stones from the sidelines without ever really getting into the discussion. You would think it would occur to them to mention WHY they carry their message and let the chips fall where they might, instead of trying to pull off making someone else's position look faulty with tactics like poisoning the well and setting up straw men so they can huff & puff & knock them down.

I'm not saying this to attack anyone. I truly love harmony on the forums. I'm hoping that anyone reading this will take note of how we conduct ourselves, and if guilty, hopefully see what I and others see. I don't think anyone can find fault in my reasoning, but I'll sure talk to them in an adult manner - seem fair?

I conduct myself on the container forum in the same way I conduct myself here. I have disagreements with people there all the time, but I haven't had tempers flare since 1 (that's one) member disappeared. Before that, the forum was bedlam for over a year because of that person's continual and intentional antagonism.

On this forum, we have a similar situation. Every time I post something, one person always seems to disagree. One person. That in itself is no problem, but when it happens, I feel compelled to make sure that whomever I'm talking to is indeed getting the right information, so I offer additional proof to support what I said. I ALWAYS do this in a direct straightforward manner and give an excellent account of why I disagree, relying only on facts and logic. The reply is usually argumentative with no substance and more inaccurate information that often has nothing to do with the topic.

The end result is the person who won't even bother trying to explain why a suggestion or advice was given goes into a wounded bird routine, and several friends cluster around in defense and start a character assassination because there is nothing wrong with the facts or presentation.

We all have our strengths & weaknesses. I don't get too involved with 'identify my plant' or 'what's this pest' or many other questions asked where the OP can't be helped unless it requires some technical knowledge. That's my strength and that's what I concentrate on. I think I'm very, very good when it comes to advice pertaining to soil science and things related to physiology and energy management of the plant. How many people regularly disagree with me in these areas? ONE. You would think it would be a person who is very strong in these areas and because we're both strong we would be disagreeing on minor points. Instead, it's a person who is very weak in these areas and disagrees on virtually every point.

I don't want to argue, and I don't ever go looking for trouble, but on threads where I'm trying to help. I work hard to see the OP gets facts that are rooted in reality. Everyone owes it to the forum to try to minimize strife by supporting your position with something that allows the OP to evaluate the information. By all means, let's debate, but let's also try to recognize our limitations to avoid unnecessary debate, confusion, and conflict.

OK - you want a mix that is the best of both worlds - like everyone does. First - all my pots have drainage - wouldn't be without it. You CAN grow in pots w/o drain holes, but if you want your plants to remain healthy you need to be really careful about how you water and what you water with. We'll save that for another day unless you're interested.

How about giving me some direction as to what you expect from a soil, and we'll see what best to do?

I owe you for the venue to speak from my heart on a thread that isn't confrontational (except for you calling me arrogant!). ;-) I hope that others don't see this as me taking an opportunity to take a backhand swipe at the forum or a member of the forum. I honestly want the best for everyone, especially those here for help. If anyone thinks they can do a better job helping on a thread I'm participation on - go ahead. If I think I can do a better job, you know I'll try my best. If you know in your heart that you can't do a better job, please don't argue with anyone that can. Think of something else supportive to say. There are tons of times I see people giving wonderful advice, and lots of times I might not agree 100%, but darn, that's close enough and no one's going to be hurt by a minor error. Please keep in mind that if I disagree, it's because I think what was said has the potential to diminish the growing experience of another, or give undue false hope. So there is no confusion about what I meant by false hope, I'll use an example that no one has used. If a plant is in tatters, and someone advises the grower to change fertilizers or dose it with Ironite, that is offering false hope. If it's pointed out as not being helpful, it doesn't mean the person wasn't trying to be helpful, it means that the suggestion wasn't helpful. I'll say why it's not, and if there isn't GOOD support for an alternate position, PLEASE let it rest. It will REALLY help this forum settle down.

So sorry for the length of this. I hope we're ok using this thread to clear the air. If it's not ok, please say so, if it IS ok, then I hope anyone interested will offer their thoughts.

Your turn, YM. Thank you for acknowledging the loss of my buddy. I think I too became much closer to my pets after the kids were gone. I thought my last GSHP would always be my favorite dog, but then there was Ticen. Maybe it has something to do with turning 60? As I get older, the enjoyment I get from nurturing plants and the people who nurture plants grows, so it's logical to imagine the connection with pets would become a greater source of enjoyment or joy, too.

Best to everyone. Sorry if I offended anyone, but this is how I feel. I hope it's a help & not a hindrance.

Al

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Al:

I met Shorthairs when my future husband and his Gretchen joined the advanced obedience class I was teaching. Thirty years later we have four elderly Shorthairs (12 years old in June). They are the product of my one and only foray into breeding a litter since I kept them all! Gary grouse and woodcock hunts in Michigan and Wisconsin. I also had poodles from 1969-1995.

On the subject of critcs: I've never criticized your mix or your methods. I have even (gasp) frequently agreed with you. :-)

But it's like I've said to you privately: I think we (including myself) are all guilty of forgetting we are dealing with real people who can have their feelings hurt by the way we fashion our words.

And, to paraphrase a very wise Forrest Gump: That's all I'm going to say about that. :-)

Best,

Linda

Thought these might bring back some memories:

Joe (CH Stones River Yankee Clipper, JH, NRD) at eight weeks:
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"DD" (Dual Champion/Amateur Field Champion Stones River Destroyer, MH, CGC): Joe's late Daddy (and the best bed buddy in the world) at 14:
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...And Therapy-Dog-in-Training Russell ...who is panting because he's in front of the woodstove.
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Al, I'm so very sorry to hear about the loss of your Ticen. I know that he was your constant companion.

I didn't know u cooked? Multitalented with the knowledge u already have and u cook to boot...impressive lol. Nah not worried bout u being mad about the arrogance comment...I pointed out one brief insert of text only to show what we write can be misinterpreted...that's all! If u was cooking up a scheme to get me back...game on lol us country girls hold our own well ;) lol

I will be taking advantage of your offer for help and it is whole heartedly appreciated. Can u tell me your thoughts on foliage pro vs. Osmocote plus? Lowes don't have either. I will ask further questions as I get this mix made and feel comfortable using it. I have noticed that there are other amendments made other than the basic 5:1:1 or gritty mix, but feel it is best I get comfortable with basics first. I am a one step at a time kind of girl. When I cook I measure although getting better bout not being so precise....Dang OCD lol.

The mix I want for outside containers would allot me the ability to be away for four or five days and a good soaking before I leave and maybe sucker someone into watering once while I'm gone. Would be a outside mix only. Not worried bout inside stuff they would be fine, but mid summer days in a clay pot full sun can get ugly quick without proper watering. I love my flowers but I have other interests as well, and not willing to give any up :)

I am so jealous over your winged friends...what a peaceful and relaxing picture...thanks for sharing...I love it!!!

Wonderful pictures...kind of fond of the last lil furbaby :)

Linda says "I have even (gasp) frequently agreed with you." Now there's a novel thought. I could use a little of that around here. ;-) Hopefully you have a little better understanding of why I'm not equally upbeat with all, now? I don't treat everyone equally, in part because I'm not treated by all equally. As I noted, people who are direct & sincere can be dealt with, but when people want their pound of flesh more than they want to see other's helped, it's difficult to smile while the pound goes missing. ;-)

It's difficult to NOT look like you're the problem when you have several people haranguing you. No matter how hard you try to stay on track, when you're trying to defend both yourself and your position against several fronts, no matter how right you may be, or how golden your intentions, you're not going to come off well. Essentially, you either let go of something you know inside is right and good and get shouted down, or you do your best and hope you get rescued by the OP or by pressure from others that see what's going on.

Two handsome dogs & 1 that's cute. Joe's dad was getting that look wee hate so much - like it's not fun any more. That's a tough thing to see. If I ever make it to heaven, I promise I'm going to try to do something about getting us pet owners a lifetime warranty. It just ain't fair. Ticen was 15-1/2 when it was time. Gulp.

Hi, Dori. Thank you for the expression. It's sincerely appreciated. I don't know what else to say but Thank You. It's not that bad now - time does heal ..... still, when I talk about him I have to swallow a lot. ;-)

Y - since the second sentence is at me, the first about cooking has to be, too. Yup - I'm the cook around here. I've shared a LOT of recipes with friends at GW, too. I've been married (counting) 34 years come Aug, and my wife has cooked less than 10 meals in that time. I'm also a CCW instructor and certified to teach multiple firearms disciplines and hunter's safety classes, too. (Hear that, Linda?)

Osmocote+ vs FP 9-3-6 .... I like the control that comes with the requirement to fertilize frequently, and the fact that you can withhold fertilizer when temperatures get really hot - can't do that with a CRF. I like the NPK %s of the 9-3-6 a little better too, but it's not a difference that's significant - almost a wash, there. I suppose in the end, it comes down to asking yourself whether you want the freedom of not having to fertilize regularly over the control and slightly better ratio.

Are you saying you'd be gone for 4-5 days with a watering in the middle? Sounds like the 5:1:1 mix with some vermiculite or Turface fines should get you through 3 days.

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Al

the comment about not knowing you cooked was a joke regarding you talking bout cooking up a scheme to get back at me lol (and i never thought you was doing that at all btw)...my husband cooks to but we both do, however i cook better :)...shhh don't tell ;)

okay you are gonna have to give me specifics about how much of one or the other. just say if i was mixing a small batch then i can adjust according, but will give me a idea of how much i need. yes 4 or 5 days with a watering in the middle.

that's one fat happy bird!!! awesome picture!!!

btw why do i have to change subject line or my message gets rejected but noone else does...am i in trouble for something lol

If you post two posts close together in time or two posts in a row, you'll need to change the subject line ...... usually, not always. I can't figure out the hard rule.

Duh - I wondered how the heck you knew I cooked! I feel silly. I'm really tired today. I looked at the comment on the thread where I got accused of prostituting myself, for the longest time! I went up and down the thread trying to figure out what I missed & who might have said anything about a prostitute. Lolol - then it dawned on me! ;-)

OK - If you're lucky enough to come up with bark that looks like what you see at 3, 6, or 9,
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you could try 5:1:1:1, bark:peat:perlite:vermiculite or Turface fines (good way to use 'em up). If the bark is larger or smaller, you'll need to adjust for that. Obviously, a year's worth of experience is valuable when trying to decide how much water retention is enough. The water retention comes at the price of aeration, so how badly do you want it? (is the question you ask yourself)

In all honesty, if you're going to pack the soils with small particles to increase water retention, you might be just as well served to use a soil from a bag. Once you get up to around 25% small particles, the flow-through rate (drainage) and degree of aeration won't be much different than in a peat-based soil.

That's the point a few refuse to acknowledge or are unable to understand - you can't add BBs to pudding and expect it to drain well or be well aerated. In like fashion, you can't add bark & perlite to peat soils to get them to drain well or be well-aerated, or reduce the ht of the PWT. You CAN add peat and perlite to large particles (bark) and retain great aeration and flow through rates, WITH the added benefit of a minimally high PWT.

There is just no getting away from the fact that if you want to take advantage of the increased aeration/drainage/reduced perched water, you're going to have to water more frequently. I mean - the soil holds less water because that's what it's supposed to do - or not do ..... you know what I mean. ;-)

I had some hunting acreage up on the shore of Lake Huron. I had managed to hand tame about 50 chickadees, maybe a dozen nuthatches, a few tits, and a brown creeper. The chickadees were absolutely fearless. They would land on us with no hesitation at all. They were very polite, too. If I had sunseed in the hollow on top of my hat, or in my hand, only one bird would land at a time, but they would come in rapid succession, one after the other. Even when we were walking & talking, they would be steeling seeds.

The nuthatches were different. Where the chickadees would land on you anywhere, the nuthatches would never land on you. You would have to lean against a tree or be within inches of a tree so they could land above on the tree, then hop down the bark & then onto your arm or hat to search for a treat. The tits were hardest of all, but were like the chickadees, and the brown creeper, a bug eater, would only take hulled sunflower seeds in the winter.

I had a 12x16 tree house built 3/8 of a mile off the road. The floor was 15' above the ground, and it had 2 small bedrooms with bunks, a little kitchen, a bathroom of sorts, and a little 4X4 porch we could stand or sit on and feed the birds. Imagine how peaceful it would be to be up in the trees, alternating between a good read and communing with the birds ......

One of my pet trees that grew there - the 'teacup tree', we called it.
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Al

"In all honesty, if you're going to pack the soils with small particles to increase water retention, you might be just as well served to use a soil from a bag. Once you get up to around 25% small particles, the flow-through rate (drainage) and degree of aeration won't be much different than in a peat-based soil"

I might agree with that point except one other fact holds true is that my soil tends to compact which cannot be good for aeration... so I am also looking for something that is not going to get hard as a brick and due to the bark i dont think there is any possible way for it to. so increasing the drainage but lessening the compactness of the soil, but also making a bit water retentive seems to me to be a lot better product than i have. May not be your idea of optimal but it is so working for me in my mind right now. The houseplants i will do a bit different but then again there is not 100 degree weather and direct sun on the houseplants and it is temperature controlled so watering needs are considerably different IMO...tell me your thoughts?

just another thought...i water almost daily when it is hot outside, i enjoy that and will watch closely as i said when i am home it is not a problem. okay back to my thought lol i found myself watering frequently as well with the soil i was using it seems to get hard and what i think happens is alot of the water runs off as opposed to soaking in, so when the soil compacts your not getting what you need to begin with so anything in my opinion is going to be a step up...baby steps over here lol.

the teacup tree is awesome and rightfully named.

i can understand you being tired...prostituting is hard work * haha i'm on the floor over here, you stepped into that one and i could not resist *, you just gotta laugh sometimes and not take the internet to seriously, it is so far from reality in a considerable number of ways. its like drinking and being 10 foot tall and bullet proof, you can say what you want and really who is going to do anything about it. so big deal your prostituting soil and fertilizer...come to think of it i think that is a federal offense in at least 10 states i can think of off the top of my head lol...i am so funny in my own mind ;)

a1 where is my daily food for thought? hope my lil joke above did not upset you :( was meant more to lighten the mood than poke fun :). anyway i was awaiting your thought on my above post, so hope i have not offended you as i really would like a answer to my thinking. was also wanting you to look at the soil mix on my bulk flower pot thread and see how much you actually cringe :). lmk

Nooo - I hope you're not in a rush and you'll be patient for a day? I took awhile at that other thread and my (grown) son is here watching hockey, and I should be keeping him company. Besides, hooking is hard work .... a guy needs his rest. ;-)

Al

I would have called it a Mad Mama Tree. Or Scolding Wife. :-)

rhizo,

As in 'One arm akimbo and saying "If you think...."'?

The tree above was a sugar maple. This one is an ash with a large burl.
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Expanding on the 'mother' theme .....

I hope this thing arrives soon!

Once you get to around 20% fine particles, the aeration at container capacity diminishes very quickly because the fine particles filter in around the large particles and it's nearly as though the large particles aren't even there. A soil is at 'container capacity' after it has been fully saturated and has just stopped draining.

If you remember the pudding example where we added BBs to pudding until there was an improvement in aeration, it's easy to see that the BBs need to be a very large fraction of the whole (85% or more) before there is improvement in aeration. That's why you can't effectively amend a soil comprised of fine particles. If you need to add 80% bark and 10% perlite to peat or a heavy soil to ensure your plants will get the benefits of better aeration and a reduced PWT height, you're not adding 80% bark to the fine particles, you're adding the fine particles to the bark. No matter how you describe it, the maximum benefits are seen when the large particles are by far the largest fraction of the whole.

Your job would be to determine how much water retention you want. You can always add the peat you think you need, and use a wick to help drain excess water while the planting is immature. Later, when it has matured or before vacation, you can pull the wick, which will increase water retention.

Food coma here - can hardly stay awake. Braised pork tenderloin medallions in a caramelized onion sauce, mashed potatoes with parsley, mustard & horseradish (don't turn your nose up - they're fantastic), fried apples, dumpling squash with butter & nutmeg, steamed broccoli, and roasted, maple glazed baby carrots. Oink! No desert & no rolls.

Hava good evening.

Al

looks as though the other thread got removed...probably just as well i did'nt see that going anywhere good and it is a new day, so on to new things.

when you say fine particles i am assuming you mean everything but the pine bark fines? i will think of more things to ask but working four twelves at work and been crazy busy. just wanted a lil me time so hopped on here a few :)

Most often, when I think of fine particles, I'm imagining things like most bagged potting soils, peat, compost, coir, sand, topsoil/garden soil.

The gritty mix eliminates them entirely, which is why it offers such wonderful aeration and durability; and the formulation of the 5:1:1 mix was settled on purposely, in an attempt to keep fine particles to less than 20% of the soil's volume ...... just so there was no chance of the fine particles filling in around the larger particles and eliminating the entire reason for using the large particles in the first place.

Get some rest. I know I will. I strained my neck lifting a heavy piece of plate glass at work, so I took a muscle relaxer & a pain pill. I'm about half awake. Time to go read until sleep finds me .....

Al

a friend of mines bought a sansiveria plant ( aka - snake plant / mother in law tounge ) and was wondering after buying it from the nursery if it could be planted in the 5-1-1 mix or the grity mix and if the soil that the plant comes with should be taken of ( rinsed - washed ) to use it in the mix or can it be left on ? dont know if taking it off would make any harm or stress on the plant or does with either of the mixes could it make a happy medium transition ?

T - Yes, please bare-root the plant before transitioning it into a dissimilar soil. If you mix soil types, especially if they are radically different, one part of the soil will always be either too wet or too dry. Sans tolerate being bare-rooted very well - just make sure the plant gets no direct sun for at least 2 weeks after the repot.

Another thing you'll learn, if you stick around, is that our houseplants need regular repotting, which is different than simply potting up into a larger pot. Repotting includes removing the old soil and pruning off many large roots that serve no purpose other than to act as conduits.

I hope the crosstalk is OK, Y. I hoped you wouldn't mind, since the thread already skips through topics like a kid through spring puddles.

Al

no problem Al ; ) , posted it on both cuz both seemed appropiate for the question , and besides that i keep learning : ) , i sent u a message to your inbox did u recieve it ?

have a nice day gardening : )

Conrado

I'm at work on break right now so knock yourselves out garden chatting lol. Yeah a1 my threads will be all over the place not always good at staying on task lol

Ymaddox, just out of curiosity....are you aware that "Al" is Tapla's real name?

Josh

hey Josh : )

Hello, good Doctor! ;-)

Josh

a simple question ; ) , in basic soils moist soil is tested by finger , in the gritty mix or the 511 is there a way to determine when to add more water : ( ???? cuz dont wanna depend on when the plant looks droopy or sad to water it : (

The finger test is only effective for fairly shallow pots. When using heavy soils, the top several inches can feel dry to the touch, even though deep in the pot the soil may be very soggy. Better, is a wooden skewer stuck deep into the soil. If it comes out looking dirty, or damp/cool on your cheek or the inside of your wrist, you should withhold water. When using the gritty mix, you can feel the soil at the drain hole to test for moisture, or use the skewer test. Since there is very little danger of over-watering when using the gritty mix, there is a much wider margin for error. I even water on a schedule, a definite no no when using heavy, water-retentive soils.

Note though, for a week or two you should water more frequently after you first repot into the gritty mix, especially if the roots only reside initially in the top 1/3-1/4 of the soil mass.

Al

I'd love to give this gritty mix a whirl on my jade plants but after seeing the recipe, it appears I have to go to some out-of-the-way places in hopes of finding them. Hmm...

My eyes are still spinning from all the endless threads about this gritty mix. hehe.

Where do you live (city)? Since Gran-I-Grit is mined in NC, it shouldn't be a big trick to find a rural feed store that caters to owners of farm animals; and Turface isn't usually all that difficult to find (you can even find it in NYC), and since southern yellow pine is the source of most of the pine bark, you should be able to locate that too, or fir bark, with little difficulty.

It's up to you - what effort you're willing to make, but I think you would find it well worth it, once you see how well your plants take to it and how easy it is to maintain them. It's a very forgiving medium.

Al

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Dragonstone, I was able to find Turface at a seed store. John Deere retailers carry them, but the local retailer was all out when I called in December.

I was able to find Gran-i-Grit at a farm supplies store. I think it's considered chicken feed (???), so any place that sells supplies for farms should have them, or something similar. They knew exactly what I was talking about when I said "grower's size." (They asked how many chickens I had, and I said it was for my cactus. They said a lot of people bought it for that purpose.)

The local HD/Lowe's doesn't carry pine bark fines, but there's a large nursery in my area where they promote pine fines as their #1 recommended product for mulching your garden.

All these stores were all within 30 minutes of a major metropolitan area. I think they might be even easier to find in a rural area.

I'm not in any rush - yet. It's sad that there's been spring-like conditions for over a month now and my plants are growing. I feel the itch to re-pot everything and make new beds but holding off since a lot can happen between now and the official 'spring' date. Some part of me is waiting for winter to finally come rushing in and kill everything.

I have a batch of jades as well as a ginseng ficus bonsai tree that I want to repot. How does thanksgiving cacti respond to this mix, has anyone tried?

I recommend a bark-based mix for jungle cacti like Thanksgiving cactus.
I use screened Fir bark, screened Perlite (coarse grade), and a little grit - pumice, scoria, or turface.
Very similar to the 5-1-1 mix, sans peat/potting soil.

Josh

Josh, how does one get "coarse" perlite? The perlite that I get is usually pretty coarse. Are there different grades out there?

You purchase the product labeled "coarse."
There are several grades available. If you buy the fine, dusty Perlite, you'll end up losing a great
deal when you sift and rinse the product.

I purchase Sunshine brand in a 4 cubic foot bag.

Josh

okay so i bought the foliage pro paid 21.69 for 32 ounces...is this a good deal? could find it nowhere in my area, went four or five places today while in town looking...of course the fact that it is february could have something to do with it.

greenman yes i have figured out tapla's name is al, was a lil on the blond side for a bit, but i got it...thanks ;)

i should'nt be up this late but i had a puppy with a stuffy nose lol... just have to keep watch he was'nt eating cause he could'nt breath through his nose. so i been picking doggy boogers lol and made the bathroom into a sauna for the lil guy :)...he is just lil over 3 weeks old :). just the topper after the four twelve hour shifts i had at work...then puppy sick which really stresses me out!!! crazy how quickly u can get attached to something. anyway gonna keep a eye on the little fella for a bit till he has eaten well.

Ymaddox, that's a fine price for Foliage Pro!
In fact, that's almost exactly what I pay at the local hydroponics shop. Nice score.

Good luck with the snuffly puppy :-)

Josh

This is another one of those areas that might require a review of what perspective the answer comes from. Compared to the price of other 3:1:2 ratio fertilizers, at first glance it doesn't look like such a hot deal, but when you consider it contains ALL the nutrients essential to good growth, and doesn't get its N from urea like most other soluble fertilizers, it softens the (price) blow considerably. Is it a good deal in comparison to other entities that sell the same product? It's probably pretty good - a little better than the middle of the pack. A quick search showed one place that sold it for $19/qt, so it's not like you got skinned. ;-)

..... BUT, from the plant's perspective, it's a great deal - all you could ask for in one package. Plus, combining the use of FP with the fast draining soils you're entertaining the use of takes almost all the guesswork out of when to water and fertilize, which brings us full circle to that 'easier and greater margin for grower error' thing.

My name is Alan A. -------- - no middle name, just an initial. At the hospital, after I was born, my parents still couldn't figure out what to name me. The label in my dad's underwear was Alan A. Scott brand, so they figured the Alan A. worked well enough as a handle, so that's how I got named. I guess it's better than Sue ..... ;-)

How my brother and I got our Indian names is quite a different story.

Al

Now THAT is some inside information, Al! ;-)
Of course, I must ask....what is your Indian name???

Josh

i could go on a tangent with all this info. lol. but i'm with josh, sounds like a story to be told to me. dont peak our interest then bow out, that is so not right ;)

i just did not know how much everyone gave for it. but you know what my inclenation is going to be. just as soon as it comes in, i have all my ingredients and i am going to want to start repotting stuff lol. i know that is not the best idea until spring, but would it really hurt? be one thing i'm ahead of the game on :)

thanks josh, we are off to the vet at 1:45 i was up till after 330 just keeping check on the lil fellar and back up 830...had to weigh, worm, and clean up after the lil guys and gals. anyway the one im worried about is only pound and a half and the others are two or over. sure that is not such a big deal if he was eating good, but we will let the vet concentrate on that as i have extended my knowledge out and short of bottle feeding which i may have to supplement, i just want confirmation all is well. worth the money to me and they all need a checkup anyway, have not been to vet yet...so it all works out, just wish i was going to vet with no issues just for routine exam. would not give a million dollars and see one of them hurt or feel bad. they are so snuggly, loveably cute :)

First, let's hope the sick pup is ok, and the ck-up turns out fine for the rest of the litter.

I haven't a politically correct bone in my body, and I do think that 'Indian name' is much better for the yarn than 'native American' name, so that's what I'm using.

I do think how I got my Indian name is sort of anticlimactic to how my brother got his; HIS story has traveled the world. It's better told in person or on the phone, but if you promise to put your imagination to work in places, I'll do my best to do it justice in its writing. I swear on my life that the story is entirely true.

A group of about 5 guys that hunted and fished together regularly, somehow, over the years, came up with Indian names for each other that came into being as a result of some occurrence or combination of occurrences that happened while afield. For example, my son's Indian name is 'Two Deer Spook Me'. He got his Indian name because he fell backwards off the ladder he used to climb into his elevated deer stand when two small bucks appeared as he ascended - then subsequently descended in an unceremonious pratfall.

I was saddled with my Indian name one day on a wild river while fishing for steelhead trout. About 2 miles downstream from where we had set camp, I began to experience some pretty severe abdominal distress. I found myself in sudden need of getting the waders that were nearly up to my neck, somewhat lower than another important body part that is a major player in times of this type of distress. I probably don't need to explain any further, other than to mention that my waders were poorly positioned for desperate times. Just knowing that my Indian name will forever be '$hits His Boots' probably allows you to fill in all the blanks and picture that awful day.

Ok - those were cute, but now to the main story. I think 4 of the 5 of us were together, hunting on some vacant acreage I keep for that purpose near the Lake Huron shore the day my brother got his Indian name. It was opening day of the MI rifle deer season, and as is our custom, all the guys had exited the woods after dark and were gathered at the front of the property in a clearing by the main road. We were relating the day's experiences, telling lies about how big and how many the deer were. Imagine the group talking quietly as they borrowed warmth from the hissing Coleman lantern that cast lively shadows against the backdrop of the dark woods.

There were two guests that day, so 6 people. One of the guests, Jim, the BIL of one of the regulars, had a severe stuttering problem; the more excited he would become, the worse the stuttering. Now I said you had to help me out by using your imagination, so as I spin this story, you have to imagine the look on Jim's face and the escalation in his stuttering and gesturing. I'll do my best here.

Everyone had told their story at least twice, and were prolly starting on the third go 'round as new embellishments were thought up and added. My brother Fred, nickname Fritz, Indian name 'Glove Finder', had noticed that Jim was only wearing one glove. FWIW, it was an el cheapo brown jersey glove. My brother casually reached into his pocket and came up with an exact match to Jim's solo glove. He grinned a big grin and held it between his thumb and index finger, swinging it side to side like a hypnotist's watch on a shortened chain, and with a smug look on his face that accused Jim of being foolish enough to lose a glove on such a cold day, he chided, "Hey Jim, did you lose something!? I found it by the trail in (to the woods) this morning."

Jim fell completely apart. He laughed and coughed and wheezed as he tried to speak. He got "Oh my God" out ok, but the rest went something like this:

"I-I-I-I was ou-ou-ou-out in the wo-wo-wo-wo woods th-this m-m-mornin' ........ an-an-and I I I ha-had-had to t-t-t-t-t-take a sh-sh-sh-sh-shi-$hit, and and and I di-didn't h-have a-anyth-th-th-thing t-t-t-to w-wipe mys-s-s-self w-with, s-s-s-so-so I u-u-u-u-used my g-g-g-glove!!"

Then we ALL fell apart ..... except for poor Glove Finder, of course. He didn't think it was as funny as we did. I don't know why, but he gets soooooo ticked at me if I tell that story when he's around. It IS a perfectly good story .... I think.

Oh - I actually abbreviated Jim's stuttering. It took him much longer to actually get it out, than it took to type even the condensed version.

And that's how, that night, in that clearing, brother Fritz got his Indian name.

Al

That's a damned good story, Al!

Josh

that is great lol...may need to put the bunch of you on a bowel training program though...get with me haha.

all of the puppies but the one checked out good and nothing really she could find with him. she said sometimes there is just a fading puppy syndrome and a puppy wont make it. but she was pleased with him overall, other than him not eating and seemed to have a little lethargy, but no temp, lungs clear, no signs of dehydration. so i am giving him vitamins and feeding him supplements, he is eating well with a syringe and tries here and there to eat from mom. it has just been exhausting today...breaks my heart that he is having trouble. he is my sons birthday present, the puppy he picked...my son is 21 but still he has already grown attached to the puppy, as we all have...so praying all is well with the little guy.

this is Duke:
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He's a lil wet from his daddy cleaning the milk off of him from where he ate lol

Hi Ymaddox,

I certainly hope all is well with your little pup!

Hopefully you will bring this little one around with all of the wonderful care you are providing. I used to raise Minature Schnauzers and show them when i was young. It was so hard to have a new litter because i would always become attached to all of them

Good Luck with your litter and little pup!

Al,

My cheeks are hurting as well as my sides from laughing so hard!! i'm sure the people in the hotel room next door cant believe i am laughing out loud!!!

Those are great stories!!!

Thanks for sharing ...

(still chuckling... : )

Laura

{{gwi:71502}}

update on duke...he is feeding off mom again and right in there fightin with the rest of them for food...i love answered prayers!!! he is walking around and playing with everyone including us!!! here is the puppies at 3 weeks and 4 days...that's today lol. anyway i know this is off topic, but who cares it's fun and my thread :)

btw al did you say it would hurt if i got all crazy and replanted my flowers now instead of spring?

i have this soil called garden pro i got at lowes was just a cheap soil to do my wintersowing in when i looked at ingredients it says...natural soil products, aged pine bark fines, and perlite...it almost looks sandy with bark in it. wonder how good it actually is?

{{gwi:71503}}

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Here is a link that might be useful: says composted bark, peat and perlite

okay then night $hits in boots and everyone...have to work in the morn 5:30 will come early lol.

sorry i just had to...still laughing bout the whole story. so i ask for forgiveness now, but really who can blame me...you should have borrowed the other glove, that's all i'm sayin lol...night!!!

haha had to fix said illegal string of characters...my grandmother always said that was'nt a bad word we do it everyday (at least for the lucky one lol)...who knew ;)

(Indignantly) My middle Indian name is 'HIS'!

The soil really DOES look very water-retentive. By the pictures, it looks to be a very high % of find particles. Keep in mind the pudding & BBs illustration. A pint jar full of BBs would be wonderfully aerated, but adding even just a cup of pudding would destroy the aeration entirely and leave you with exactly the same amount of aeration (and drainage characteristics) you would have if the jar was entirely filled with pudding. This is why I keep explaining over and over to the very few who either don't understand or are in denial of the fact that you simply can't effectively amend a soil made of fine ingredients by adding some bark and perlite. If you want to take advantage of a soil that has superior aeration and drainage, the soil has to have a very large fraction (>75-80%) of particles larger than 1/10".

It's such good news about the pup! It's SUCH a helpless feeling when you see your kids or pets not well .......

Al

LMAO! The Glove Finder and SHP story are priceless! I can just envision both happening! And the stuttering!! Good Times for sure! Im still laughing!

Between the pictures of animals and the beautiful bonsai, I think I have a better grasp on the bark mix and will probably be telling myself that BBs and pudding do not mix the next time I am running around looking for good soil!

Great read!

Much respect to all of you here and thanks for sharing your stories and experience so others like myself can come read it later on!

:-)

The animals ........ I don't know if birds laugh, but I know dogs do. They smile with their eyes and laugh with their tails. Prolly one of the reasons you find man set higher on the evolutionary ladder is that his laugh is fit to the proper end.

Al