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Taxonomy Nerds: Chlorophytum fire flash

Posted by FrugalFanny 4 (My Page) on
Thu, Feb 14, 13 at 20:47

Hello. Does anybody know what the scientific name of Chlorophytum x fire flash is? I found two plants for sale on glasshouse works that look like fire flash to me: C. amaniense and C. Orchidastrum/ orchidantheroides. What is the difference between them and which is commonly referred to as "fire flash", or do they both go by that common name? Anyone?

Here is the page I'm mulling over, if it helps at all: http://glasshouseworks.com/trop-c.html


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: Taxonomy Nerds: Chlorophytum fire flash

I am not an expert, but I would expect it is probably some kind of hybrid


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RE: Taxonomy Nerds: Chlorophytum fire flash

The "X fire flash" in the name indicates it's a hybrid. But I don't know between which species of Chlorophytum.


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RE: Taxonomy Nerds: Chlorophytum fire flash

I would think the guys at Glasshouse Works would know as much as about anybody else. If you call, I'm sure they'd talk to you, I've met them both, very nice guys.


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RE: Taxonomy Nerds: Chlorophytum fire flash

I see no indication that this is a hybrid. I 'think ' that this is Chlorophytum amaniense which has been given a trademarked name of Fire Flash. Heck, that name might not even be trademarked. C. Orchidantheroides is just a synonym for C. amaniense.

The name would probably read : Chlorophytum amansiense "Fire Flash".


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RE: Taxonomy Nerds: Chlorophytum fire flash

  • Posted by dsws none (My Page) on
    Sat, Feb 16, 13 at 10:36

Here's a page that seems to say that C. amaniense is a subspecies of C. filipendulum: http://eol.org/pages/1086779/details.

Here's a page that lists a bunch of synonyms for C. orchidastrum: http://arctos.database.museum/name/Chlorophytum orchidastrum

And this page has an image for C. orchidastrum: http://eol.org/pages/1086855/overview

Here is a link that might be useful: Eol page for C. orchidastrum


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RE: Taxonomy Nerds: Chlorophytum fire flash

Wow! Thanks everyone for weighing in! I suppose I should contact the ghworks folks and see if they can help. Really, I am just curious.


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RE: Taxonomy Nerds: Chlorophytum fire flash

To be quite pedantic (which is what taxonomy is all about, LOL).

Rhizo_1, when someone adds "X fire flash" to the genus name of a plant they are claiming it is a hybrid. If you yourself believe that plant to be a species, then that's a different matter. But it doesn't change the fact that the retailer claims and has labelled it as a hybrid.

Now, on a different issue, Chlorophytum amaniense Engl., Bot. Jahrb. Syst. 34: 157 (1904) is a synonym of Chlorophytum filipendulum subsp. amaniense (Engl.) Nordal & A.D.Poulsen, in Fl. Trop. E. Afr., Antheric.: 59 (1998).

In taxonomy Chlorophytum orchidantheroides doesn't exist neither as an accepted name nor as a synonym.

And Chlorophytum orchidastrum Lindl., Edwards's Bot. Reg. 10: t. 813 (1824) is an accepted name, synonym is Chlorophytum orchidastrum var. simplex (Craib) Char., Thai Forest Bull., Bot. 7: 68 (1973).

Now, how's that for nerdy taxonomics?


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RE: Taxonomy Nerds: Chlorophytum fire flash

Well done, tropic. I would only add that "...doesn't exist neither as...nor..." is a double negative. The "doesn't" cannot precede neither...nor.

"...doesn't exist as ...either....or...."
"exists as neither....nor..."

If English is not your 1st language, I apologize in advance since this is rather arcane, and not really germane to the sense of the conversation. If this were an actual oral conversation, I would dare to neither correct nor admonish anybody. Since I am not visible, I can either correct or admonish without suffering the polite glares from the audience for my boorish behavior. :>)


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RE: Taxonomy Nerds: Chlorophytum fire flash

lol thanks nerds:)


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RE: Taxonomy Nerds: Chlorophytum fire flash

i think all this info just confused me more lol. it's all so complicated! oh well. someday i will find something that resembles my impression of what a c. fire flash is, and it shall be mine:) in the end, it doesn't matter.


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RE: Taxonomy Nerds: Chlorophytum fire flash

Evidently 'Fire Flash' is not a cultivar (hybrid or otherwise) but simply the "nickname" (or common name, if you will) of the Chlorophytum orchidastrum species .

tj

Here is a link that might be useful: Came to me in a Flash


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RE: Taxonomy Nerds: Chlorophytum fire flash

tsugajunkie: thank you for the straightforward answer! phew! i was under the impression that it was a common name, and possibly a cultivar, but had trouble hunting down details, since each reference seems to have its own story.

thanks everyone for the input and resources!


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RE: Taxonomy Nerds: Chlorophytum fire flash

It's as was said earlier...the trademarked name. Like a common name only protected.


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RE: Taxonomy Nerds: Chlorophytum fire flash

  • Posted by dsws none (My Page) on
    Sun, Feb 24, 13 at 20:12

As long as we're in a nerdy topic --

"Doesn't exist" certainly can precede "neither as ... nor ... ." It just needs a punctuation mark in between. I'd be ok with either a colon or a comma.

And if "when someone adds "X fire flash" to the genus name of a plant they are claiming it is a hybrid", then my niece's extraordinarily precocious first word was "axolotl", referring to the neotenic salamander Ambystoma mexicanum. In each case, the person produced what in other circumstances would have been a symbol with a meaning. In each case they were completely oblivious not only to what the meaning was, but probably to the fact that there might even be a meaning there. In only one of those cases, however, did the person involved have a good excuse.


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RE: Taxonomy Nerds: Chlorophytum fire flash

dsws. As long a hairs are being split, of course "doesn't exist" can precede anything with a punctuation mark that forms a clause, either dependent clause with a ' ; ' or an equivalent clause with a ' : ' . It can be in another sentence too, another paragraph or whatever.

That reminds me of a riddle that says you can change any of the parameters to make it right. How can it be a riddle if the original conditions can be anything you can imagine.

So far as the X, no matter what the person who writes it thinks, using it has meaning. It does not make it right because the person does not know the meaning: it is not a relative thing, it already has an established meaning. And using it for anything other than denoting a hybrid is incorrect. As you may already know, the genus epithet preceded by a capital X means it is a hybrid between 2 genera, and after the genus name means it is an intrageneric hybrid.

X Graptoveria means a hybrid between Graptopetalum and Echeveria, 2 different, related genera.
Echeveria 'Perle von Nurnberg' can also be called Echeveria x hybrid since it is a cross between between Echeveria gibbiflora 'Metalica' and E. potosina. (Written with a lower case x, E. gibbiflora x E. potosina).

People do understand other uses, but since we are splitting hairs......


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