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greenman28

Elephant Ear (?) ID (pics)

Hello!

I was hoping for an ID on this plant.

The plants shown belong to a friend, and they've been grown without sufficient light...until recently.

Do the leaves look like Alocasia sanderiana?

Thanks for the help!

{{gwi:84952}}

{{gwi:84953}}

Comments (136)

  • exoticrainforest
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Toni, I learned a long time ago that repetition is the key to truly learning.

    Can you post closeups of the top and bottom of the leaf of the second plant? A good photo of the petiole and the base of the plant where it enters the ground may be useful as well.

    Alocasia have a collective vein but no geniculum

    Steve

  • jojosplants
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Hi everyone!
    Toni~
    Yes still here, barely. lol.. Hubby is home underfoot and wanting puter too. ;-)

    I appreciate your help up thread.

    Rosella's, sorry I wasn't more specific earlier.
    Yes, beautiful birds. But, no they don't talk, but have an amazing song/whistle. Need lots of room to fly too!

    Plants don't summer too well or for very long out here. The heat is brutal, the sun harsh, and monsoon season is rough storms at times.

    They can go out for a spell in the spring, but July-Oct. is rough. ;-)

    The room will be well vented due to having birds in it. Two screen doors to keep other critters out. ;-)

    The window is about 12" wide and almost 3'tall. No room for a table, there's a sink under it.

    I saw one like Josh has pictured. was the name ever narrowed down? lol.. I need to re read the thread. ;-)

    I appreciate your help/concerns with the paint.. but no worries.. I know what I am doing, raised birds for years.
    I probably won't be getting them until March when we have the huge bird show/expo.
    Saving pennies. lol.. My taste in birds espicially finches is not cheap! lol..

    yes, I got your email, sorry I haven't had a chance to reply, sun. was an all day family day.

    I saw a plant like you just posted as needing a name for and it looks like the one I saw called Alocasia 'Stingray'.

    The fountains are nice, thank you for posting them. They're what I had in mind for size. I've been shopping for awhile now. Besides plants, the room will be my crafting area, so the fountain is partly for my wanting/soothing.

    I have a rock/waterfall one on the patio, but I don't think I will be able to get it through the door of the house. lol! It holds about 10 gallons.

    Thanks again,
    JoJo

  • greenman28 NorCal 7b/8a
    Original Author
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Greetings! Stopping in after a busy day.

    JoJo, Alocasia Amazonica is the name we're going with! ;)

    As for the birds....no, not a chance of a bird for me, I'm afraid. They might harm my cats!
    I've raised birds (chickens, ducks) and rehabilitated many different varieties - from Blue Jays
    to blackbirds to Mourning Doves - but I don't keep animals inside the home anymore.
    Strictly speaking, I don't even think the human animal ought to be kept indoors....
    but that's a philosophical discussion for another time ;)


    Josh

  • jojosplants
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Hi Josh!
    I hope it was a good day! :-)

    Thanks for the name of the plant! ;-)

    I used to have a bird that liked to land on my dogs heads and tease.lol..

    JoJo

  • tapla (mid-Michigan, USDA z5b-6a)
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago
  • jojosplants
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Now that's a funny looking Elephant Ear. LOL!

    Al,
    If you keep flaunting those little beauties, I'm gonna have to come steal them, lol...
    Are you working with them now, or is it still to cold/nasty weather?
    JJ

  • birdsnblooms
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    When learning, repetition is very important. In 'basic' plant books and online articles, common names are used repeatedly. That's probably one reason most indoor gardeners use common names.
    Steve, maybe you missed the part where I said the mystery plant lost its leaves so I tossed it, be it Anthurium/Alocasia. If I'd have suspected it might have been an Alocasia, it'd still be around. I tossed it.

    Jojo, you need a second 'puter, lol. One computer in our house, among three, would cause chaos. lol

    Sorry Jojo. So many people buy birds, don't know what they're in for. It's not as simple as Pet'sMart employees make it out to be. People are clueless. Apparently you know your birds, don't need my advice.
    I worry about birds, in and outdoors. We even feed wildbirds. lol. A huge Hawk has been hanging around our yard. He/she is mazing. My favs are Golden Finch and Hummers..

    I've seen pics of Alocasia stingrays..the woman who sent the plant is well-learned; perhaps she guessed this one. I'm leaning towards stingray.

    The larger fountain was purchased from HD. 'Gift from my son.' The smaller came from a place called Collection, Inc. Collections, Inc, was local, a humongous warehouse, now they strickly sell online.

    Josh, I'm 99.9% sure your plant is Alocasia Amazonica. The only other Alocasia I've seen that resembles yours has much wider, round, short foliage.

    You had a real zoo, wow. Funny, a bird might harm your cat..lolol. You're joking, but you'd be surprised how agressive larger macaws can get.
    I know what you mean about housing birds, but we also keep cats and dogs indoors. I feel bad for all pets. It's confusing.

    Steve, I have another plant I'd like you to see..lol..I have NO idea what it is. Posted a pic on Name that Plant a couple times..ppl came up with Dracaena, Yucca. Will explain how it came to be, and include pics..

  • jojosplants
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Hi Toni~
    No, don't need a second puter. This one is enough trouble. lol! Hubby's work has been slow, so he's around a little more than usual.

    Sorry if I made it seem I didn't need your advice. Not really the case. Was trying to say, I appreciate it, but know what i'm doing. Not something you could know until it's been offered. It's very important and useful advice you've given..
    I actually found homes for about 100 birds, so I could take care of all the work needed in their room and aviaries.

    I know what you mean about people buying birds and being clueless.
    I've worked in several pet shops and it's scary how many people think there's nothing to owning a bird.
    Thanks again,
    It's good info you've shared, and it's out there for others to learn.

    We have Red Tailed Hawks around here. Amazing birds!

    My Favorite is the Lady Gouldain Finch. I will have a pair someday! :-)

    I also adore birds like the ones Al posted.. Sometimes the most simple are so beautiful!

    Stingray is a really cool looking plant.

    I get the catalog for Collections. ;-)

    I have 3 dogs right now that sometimes think theyre cats and a 20lb cat that's convinced he's a dog. LOL!

    Have a great night everyone!
    And thanks for your help, and narrowing down the name. When I get a plant, I will try and remember to get back here and post a pic. :-)

    JoJo

  • birdsnblooms
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Steve...Name This Plant... :)

    My brothers MIL got hold of the mother 25-yrs-ago. It supposedly was shipped from Poland, hence its name, Polish Plant.
    In 1994/5 she gave me an unrooted cutting. It went in water, rooted, then potted in soil.
    To this day, I haven't any idea what it is.

    Description. New growth is white, when mature, medium to dark green. Leaf edges are jagged, similar to Pandanus.
    Young plants, under 1' grows upright, when larger, a vine. Babies and air roots grow from the vine.

    The mother plant is 20+' long, attached to a circular trellis. I don't understand how they managed training this monster since mature stems eventually turn woody.
    My guy would be much larger, but I've given way too many shoots away.

    Pictures:

    {{gwi:85008}}

    {{gwi:85010}}

    {{gwi:85013}}

    {{gwi:85016}}

    {{gwi:85019}}

    Any ideas? It burns is full sun, does best in medium light. Toni

  • exoticrainforest
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Glad to try to help with any of them. I am 100% sure Josh' plant is Alocasia Amazonica. This is a highly variable hybrid and takes on many shapes but the basic characteristics are all the same.

    All, thanks for the photos. I've tried a bunch of times to tame wild birds and never got anywhere but I have done well with South and Central American birds. In total, we've kept more than 30 species, but often on a temporary basis while the birds were up for adoption. Some of them were very traumatized by very harsh treatment and it is very correct people need to study up on what they are getting into before they buy or accept one. Some can be very tough!

    Just post good photos and always try to show both sides of the leaf so the veins can be counted and the point where the petiole inserts into the leaf blade can be clearly seen. If you can good detailed photos of the underside of the leaf so I can count the interprimary as well as see the shape of the small tertiary veins I can sometimes key them out. That is especially true of Anthurium and Philodendron since there is a great Key on The Royal Botanic Garden Kew's site, CATE Araceae. The program is called LUCID and I've taken the course four times now.

    The more information the closer we can come to a good ID with the exception of hybrids. Then it is just a guessing game. In those cases I rely on LariAnn Garner kn Miami since she is the best I know at identifying hybridized plants.

    Been reading all day and my eyes are about to shut down! I've been in a big discussion most of the day about a plant that is commonly sold on eBay as "Philodendron Silver Queen". It IS NOT a Philodendron and is almost certainly a Monstera but since it is sold in the juvneile stage we have been trying to identify it for years. I think we are now getting close!

    Steve

    PS: I often read fast and it is not uncommon for me to miss details in a post. If I do, just remind me to slow down and read it again! Identifying aroids has been fun for me for years but if you read some of the oder threads on this forum you'll find a bunch of people think I am crazy and don't know what I am doing!

    They certainly may be right!

    Oh yes, just remembered. Almost all Bromelia only produce a single inflorescence and then the parent dies. The offsets fond at the base of the plant then use the same hold fasts (not roots) and grow into adults. The hold fasts do not conduct moisture or nourishment, they just hold the plant in place. It does zero good to water them!

    And yes, the big Billbergia in the corner of the atrium produces a bright red blooms every spring and then grows two new plants that form at the base of the old one. Once the inflorescence is spent the parent dies, I often have to give them away since they are BIG!

    Harry Luther identified it for me as Billbergia pyramidalis var, concolor. He says it is not common in the wilds of northern Brazil but I don't know if that means "rare".

    Now if this is filled with typos, just forgive me. I'm not drunk, just tired!

  • exoticrainforest
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Sorry for misspelling your name Al. It is too late and my eyes want to close.

    Steve

  • greenman28 NorCal 7b/8a
    Original Author
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Howdy, Steve, Al, JoJo, Toni!

    Toni, I've known enough of these birds to know how dangerous they can be! Truly!
    My cats are scaredy-cats, anyhow...they'd freak out if some great big Mayan sun-god
    looking bird happened to appear before them! Haha!

    Al, I'd say those birds are worth, at least, two in the bush... ;)
    (sorry, had to). My bird feeder is rampant these days, and I've noticed
    the Grey Squirrels are out and about again, as well. I'm keeping water trays
    available, and breaking the ice for the birds.


    Josh

  • jojosplants
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Hello Josh!

    Two in the bush...LOL! Less T.V. ;-)

    Yes, the big birds can be dangerous. You really need to know birds to own the parrots.

    JoJo

  • birdsnblooms
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Steve..there's a nursery in IL that sells Billbergia. Think I'll get one come spring.
    Their flowers are lovely. Never saw a Bill's flower before, even online. The nursery in Il displays a picture, but it's a drawing. lol.
    The only Brom I had luck getting to flower, 'from off-shoots' was A. fasciata.

    It sickens me how chain-stores, and numerous private stores, keep their birds caged 24/7, neglects feeding and water..one bird at Petco couldn't turn without his tail hitting the cage and bars. 8 months later, the poor guy hadn't been adopted, still in the same small cage.
    One day we went to Petco. One clerk convinced a couple to purchase a Blue & Gold..While he went to get paperwork, I walked up to the couple, had a little chat. Excused myself, explained I overheard their conversation. Because the clerk made caring for a macaw sound like Disneyland, I gave it to them straight. The birds needs. The clerk never mentioned birds need veggies, fruits etc, training, avian vet care, and lots of love and attention. They couple thanked me, walked out. When the clerk returned, discovered the couple gone, the look on his face was priceless. lol..Innocent Toni, shrugged her shoulders. lol.
    'where did they go??' That guy literally ran around the store looking for them. Thank God, they left the store, attempting to hunt them down. Thankfully, they left.

    Craigslist has tons of unwanted birds..one of many places.
    I feel like crying, seeing these beautiful abused creatures.
    Reporters went to one private petstore in Chicago. Either Trib or DN. They snapped pics. Roaches, filth, empty bowls, tiny cages. This store is still opened for business.
    Steve, did you debate with the Ebay seller? LOLOL. Good luck. I think I know who you're talking about. If it's the same guy, he coins false plant names quite a it..he's not the only seller who does this.
    One guy admitted he makes up names, by looks of a plant. lol
    Some sellers get ANGRY or just don't care.

    Josh, did you care for injured or parent-less birds? Is that how you got hold of wild birds? If so, you'll be rewarded.

    Sorry, don't mean to offend anyone..I'm Anti-hunter. How can anyone shoot any animal..the poor deer. Afterall, they were here before us, or something that looked similar to today's deer. They survived.
    There's huge forest around here. Once a year, they hunt, kill hundreds of deer.
    It might be true, maybe there are too many, but there are people, mainly men, who think killing an animal is macho.
    Does anyone remember the story about the buck either severly injuring or killing a man? Up north.
    This may be un-Christianly, but I hurrayed the deer. An eye for an eye.

    Steve, told you I made stew yesterday..Pork and Beef. It's hypocratical..the beef and pork didn't grow in a garden. I've really cut back eating meat..yuck. just thinking about it makes my stomach turn. Toni

  • greenman28 NorCal 7b/8a
    Original Author
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Hey, Toni!

    Yes, I've raised young wild birds that were found in a nest that had crumbled.
    Some babies were dead on the ground, but three were still alive. My family raised
    them until they could fly, and then we set them free in the same wild area they'd been found.

    I raised a baby Blue Jay, as well, and for nearly two months after it learned to fly,
    it would return to hang out with the family - and pilfer scraps of food. It was great.

    I've rehabilitated Mourning Doves, Blue Jays, and some unknown birds with injured wings.

    I am a hunter, however, and proudly so.
    Humans are animals, and we have followed game for hundreds of thousands of years.
    It is our ancestral birth-right, and I consider hunting to be one of the rituals
    (a re-enactment of Sacred History) that allows us to self-actualize and to realize
    our status as a part of nature. I'm a conservative, and a conservationist - I believe
    in the management of wild herds (including humans) for the health of the individuals.

    When I see pictures of folks posing with Wild Cats or Bears at zoos and such,
    I cringe. Treating wild animals as tamed creatures for entertainment is one of the
    most irresponsible things we can model for the next generation. Animals are wild.
    And humans "go wild" faster than any other creature. I think we need to keep that in
    mind at all times.



    Josh

  • jojosplants
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Well put Josh..

    I'm part of a hunting and fishing family.

    We have a great deal of respect for it and the laws.

    I see nothing wrong with hunting for food, but don't get me started on the hunting for trophies. ;-)

    JoJo

  • exoticrainforest
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Toni, I had to call in the troops on your plant. No answer yet but I am searching.

    I understand your problem with many pet stores and also feel most birds should be taken in from an adoption agency since they will screen and teach the owner what to expect. As for hunting, I'm not a hunter but my dad and all my uncles were as are all of my son-in-laws.

    There is a long history of hunting in this country and most of it is done by people that really love nature but also understand the need to control the population in some areas. One of my son-in-laws studied this in college and wanted to work for the State of Arkansas in animal protection. He does work for the state now but in the Governor's office! I really have no idea what he does!

    Steve

  • tapla (mid-Michigan, USDA z5b-6a)
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Having spent many thousands of hours in the remote outdoors, a good part of them hunting and fishing all across North America, I consider myself an avid and accomplished outdoorsman and conservationist. As you can see from the pictures I posted upthread, I truly enjoy communing with nature, not killing animals. Still, I'd rather eat a deer, pheasant, or rabbit that was taken humanely with a single clean shot, than 'hunt' the supermarket aisles for animals raised and slaughtered by the thousands under absolutely horrendous conditions, or think about what they endured before they were neatly packaged so we don't have to dirty our own hands.

    Though tempted, I won't comment about whether or not I think that celebrating (hurrahing) the loss of a man's life as the result of an encounter with a wild animal might be unchristainly. I think the loss of any man's life under any circumstances is a sad thing, and never cause for gladness.

    One of the hunting-related disciplines I teach is hunter safety, and I spend a great deal of time trying to instill ethics and respect for the game the future hunters will pursue.

    {{gwi:85021}}

    Al

  • greenman28 NorCal 7b/8a
    Original Author
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    A couple passages that come to mind.

    Matthew 6:26 "Look at the birds of the air; they do not sow or reap or store away in barns,
    and yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not much more valuable than they?"

    And from John Donne's Meditation 17:

    "No man is an island entire of itself; every man
    is a piece of the continent, a part of the main;
    if a clod be washed away by the sea, Europe
    is the less, as well as if a promontory were, as
    well as any manner of thy friends or of thine
    own were; any man's death diminishes me,
    because I am involved in mankind.
    And therefore never send to know for whom
    the bell tolls; it tolls for thee."


    Josh

  • birdsnblooms
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Guess I'm outnumbered on the hunting issue..lol..Still, I personally could/would never kill an animal, (unless it was self/loved-one-defense,) and as stated above, the last few years, maybe longer, I've gradually steered away from meat.
    My family are meat eaters, so I prepare, a once, living animal 'almost' daily.
    I admit a 1/4 Pounder tastes pretty good on occassion. It's been years sive I've eaten a good, lean steak. Way too much fat. Yuck.
    Reading Dian Fossy's Biography was upsetting, the movie had me in tears. I realize hunting and poaching are entirely different, but seeing an innocent deer get shot, (like the late tv show) little Bambi, or ape/moose/bird, haunts my dreams.
    I once saw a documentary about birds. A farmer in Austraila was shooting Cockatiels to protect his crops. I understand the man is undergoing a dilemma, but my guys sit on my shoulder, AND...........boo hoo.

    It's probable a person born and raised in a large city has a different outlook on hunting and fishing.

    Indeed, hunting has been around before man. 'whomever was here first..chicken or egg?' No Taco Bell, Cracker Barrel. Animals hunted for dinner. No Purina Dino Chow in aisle 5. LOL. And there would have been many unclothed people running about.
    Like Jojo, I couldn't stand seeing a deer/moose head mounted on someone's wall. Shrunk, human heads are so much more conversational. J/K'ing..Gross.

    Steve, you're funny, call in the troops. lol. Hope you find someone who can ID the Polish Plant's identity. I first thought it was succulent, but it's a huge drinker and prefers medium light..It burns in full sun, including IL's spring sun..after acclimation. The original plant, 'when my brother's MIL had it,' was kept two rooms away from an east window. In other words, many, many moons of deep shade. I appreciate your help. I pretty much gave up asking/looking, but after meeting you, "Everything You Always Wanted To Know About Plants, but Afraid To Ask." lol, figured I'd inquire..Thanks, Toni

  • exoticrainforest
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Well, it worked. My good friend Leland Miyano in Hawaii just said this is a Pandanus species. Leland is one of the top plant experts in the world but I don't know any info on the plant. If you can't find anything let me know and I'll turn to some of the science books.

    When I get stumped, and I often do, I send notes to a bunch of botanists and experts and almost always we get lucky provided it is a tropical. In this case I did a quick check and the genus is from Madagascar so it is very tropical.

    Steve

  • jojosplants
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Well,
    Actually Toni~
    I don't have a problem with Animals mounted on walls, as long as they were hunted for the meat too.
    I don't care for animals being hunted for fur or just trophy.
    Like big cats and such.
    I come from a family that hunts to eat. ;-)

    My husband actually does taxidermy.

    Josh,
    Nice quotes. :-)

    Al~Hello!
    That's my favorite bird. :-)
    His colors are so soft and soothing.
    And some great points on the supermarket!
    JoJo

  • tapla (mid-Michigan, USDA z5b-6a)
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    People too often let emotion get in the way of reason when it comes to the subject of hunting. As I mentioned, I've spent thousands and thousands of hours afield, often sitting or moving quietly and unnoticed by wildlife for hours on end. I can attest unabashedly that the large number of deaths I've seen perpetrated, animal on animal, were anything but peaceful or merciful. More often than not, the 'natural deaths' I've witnessed were animals being torn and eaten alive by other animals. A well-placed bullet or arrow by an ethical hunter is a merciful end in comparison - no matter what perspective it's viewed from.

    That white tail buck we all like to think of as cute and cuddly will often gore and kill an unreceptive doe if he's ready and she's not yet receptive; and if his buddy buck is between him and a receptive doe he'll kill him, too. That goshawk perched in the branch of a neighboring tree would think no more of plucking and eating your cockatoo than he would the birds at the table you set for him - your bird feeders. Nature isn't the fairyland utopia so many of us view it as. One of the few things that separates man from other animals is the fact he has instituted some self-imposed limitations on nature's law of survival of the fittest. Animals recognize no such sensibility, and almost always die a violent, not a peaceful death.

    Quite a measure off the OT, but judging by Josh's response, he's not minding too much. ;o)

    Al

  • birdsnblooms
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Steve, you're amazing! You've met quite a few interesting and knowledgable people. Mind if I ask how this came about? If it's personal, disregard the question. Oh, the answer might be on your website.

    So, my Pandanus is tropical? Would you happen to know if all Pandanus are? My other Pandanus, bought at HD, Jan, 1999, 'temp 0F,' grows upright. Same thorny leaf edges, 'not a hint of white.' Now that I think about it, the green/red edged Pandanus also suffers in extreme heat and direct summer sun.

    {{gwi:85022}}

    Notice the difference? Thanks for the offer, there's some Pandanus info on Google, but if I run into any problems, I know who to ask.
    Please thank Mr. Miyano for me, Steve.
    Wish I lived in HI. :)

    Did you know there's an edible Pandanus? I've received emails from ppl who saw my Pandanus pics, asking if I knew where they could purchase the edible type, P. 'amaryllifolius.' An Asian dish. Foliage is cooked and eaten. Sorry, no recepie, lol.
    Steve, thanks so much..you've been very very helpful.

    Jojo, nothing wrong with hunting/fishing to eat. Killing for sport is another thing.
    I know people/men who enjoy hunting for the sake of killing, w/o eating what they murdered. One is an uncle, 'by marriage,' who enjoys seeing any living being suffer. 'including his son.'
    I met a woman, 'bought a bird from her,' who's husband is, imo, very sadistic. Their house if off the Fox River.
    One afternoon, a buck was munching on their, weeds, whatever it is, surely not the perfect lawn..Her husband came home, saw the buck, got his rifle and shot him. He left the poor animal to suffer, watching until it died. After hearing what this man did, with her approval, I stopped talking to her. This happened 3 yrs ago. He didn't kill the deer to eat, nope, he watched it suffer until death. Left the corpse on the ground.

    I believe, if an animal is injured to the point it can't be saved, the best thing is, put it out of its misery. I am pro mercy killings.

    Of course, animals kill. They can be terribly vicious. Mostly out of protection of their young, dinner, and when breeding. And 'just' for sport.
    It's their instinct.
    That's nature. Like I said before, there aren't any wildlife stores they can shop for dinner.
    There is a differece between animals doing the killing opposed to a human killing for a head to mount on their wall.
    We have our own opinions. I've expressed mine. I'm not trying to convert anyone here to my way of thinking. To each his/her own. Toni



  • birdsnblooms
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Steve, you're amazing! You've met quite a few interesting and knowledgable people. Mind if I ask how this came about? If it's personal, disregard the question. Oh, the answer might be on your website.

    So, my Pandanus is tropical? Would you happen to know if all Pandanus are? My other Pandanus, bought at HD, Jan, 1999, 'temp 0F,' grows upright. Same thorny leaf edges, 'not a hint of white.' Now that I think about it, the green/red edged Pandanus also suffers in extreme heat and direct summer sun.

    {{gwi:85022}}

    Notice the difference? Thanks for the offer, there's some Pandanus info on Google, but if I run into any problems, I know who to ask.
    Please thank Mr. Miyano for me, Steve.
    Wish I lived in HI. :)

    Did you know there's an edible Pandanus? I've received emails from ppl who saw my Pandanus pics, asking if I knew where they could purchase the edible type, P. 'amaryllifolius.' An Asian dish. Foliage is cooked and eaten. Sorry, no recepie, lol.
    Steve, thanks so much..you've been very very helpful.

    Jojo, nothing wrong with hunting/fishing to eat. Killing for sport is another thing.
    I know people/men who enjoy hunting for the sake of killing, w/o eating what they murdered. One is an uncle, 'by marriage,' who enjoys seeing any living being suffer. 'including his son.'
    I met a woman, 'bought a bird from her,' who's husband is, imo, very sadistic. Their house if off the Fox River.
    One afternoon, a buck was munching on their, weeds, whatever it is, surely not the perfect lawn..Her husband came home, saw the buck, got his rifle and shot him. He left the poor animal to suffer, watching until it died. After hearing what this man did, with her approval, I stopped talking to her. This happened 3 yrs ago. He didn't kill the deer to eat, nope, he watched it suffer until death. Left the corpse on the ground.

    I believe, if an animal is injured to the point it can't be saved, the best thing is, put it out of its misery. I am pro mercy killings.

    Of course, animals kill. They can be terribly vicious. Mostly out of protection of their young, dinner, and when breeding. And 'just' for sport.
    It's their instinct.
    That's nature. Like I said before, there aren't any wildlife stores they can shop for dinner.
    There is a differece between animals doing the killing opposed to a human killing for a head to mount on their wall.
    We have our own opinions. I've expressed mine. I'm not trying to convert anyone here to my way of thinking. To each his/her own. Toni



  • exoticrainforest
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Toni, let me tell you what I ve been able to learn about Pandanus so far. The genus was published by botanical artist Sydney Parkinson (1745-1771) in his Journal of a voyage to the South Seas, 46 in 1773. Parkinson was also one of the botanical artists on Captain Cook's journeys on the Endeavour and was the first botanical artist to draw plants collected on the voyages. He was the first artist to set foot on Australia as well as to, to draw Australian landscapes. His first species was Pandanus tictorius Parkinson.

    As far as I can tell there are approximately 600 species of Pandanus but I can t be certain how many may be synonyms of other plants since none of the botanical info I have on file offers that info. The genus is said to originate in Madagascar.

    I once asked one of my grandsons where Madagascar was and he said "Blockbuster". Think about it!

    The island is a large equatorial island off the east coast of Africa so it would all be tropical. I have found mentions of species existing in the South Pacific but I don t know if those are endemic or imported.

    My knowing a bunch of the best botanists and plant experts is a result of my curiosity. Leland Miyano wrote a note to me in mid 2005 and we have been trading notes on an often daily basis ever since. He was trained by famed Brazilian artist and plant collector Roberto Burle-Marx and you should look him up Google!

    He is an amazing botanical garden designer, artist aroid, palm and cycad expert and has authored several books. I finally met him in September 2007 at the International Aroid Society Show in Miami at the same time I met Julius Boos. Leland, Julius and I had traded so many emails in the previous years I could publish them into a book on plants!

    Julius had no degree in anything but was once of the most incredible people I have ever known and died as a result of pancreatic cancer last August. If he read it once, he could tell you where, often including the page. Julius has a number of plant and insect species named in his honor. Look up both Leland and Julius and the internet! Amazing stories.
    Leland was also featured in Martha Stewart living a year or so ago when they featured his private botanical garden. He has designed many of the best public gardens in Hawaii and is now working on a major project for one of the largest botanical gardens on the planet. You can find a number of newspaper and magazine articles about him on the net.

    At about the same time I began writing to Dr. Tom Croat of the Missouri Botanical Garden and Tom has become a close personal friend. In late October he spent the night with us and I was able to pick his brain for almost two days. Tom is recognized as the top aroid botanist on the planet.

    I have also been privileged to meet and spend time with many of the world s top botanists as a result of being an officer of the International Aroid Society. Last September I spent four days with Dr. Scott Mori of the New York Botanical after several years of trading the occasional note. I ve been fortunate to have many of these guys (at least 9 botanists) contribute info to my website and often rely on them for good answers when people dispute what I try to explain. If you were to go back through the last 5 years on this forum you would find my info has been disputed many times and I always shoot off a note to one of these experts for clarification.

    People just don t like to find out some of their closely held horticultural beliefs are not founded in science but as I said earlier in this thread, I don t like to argue so if they want to believe all these experts are wrong, that is their option.

    I check everything I write in one of over 200 books and papers that are now in PDF format on my computer. I also own a fairly large library of scientific books and often scan them into PDF format so I can research them with only a few terms to search. I normally buy about 3 books a week, some so difficult to understand I have to drag out a bunch of botanical dictionaries. And yes, I guess I am a nerd!

    If I read something on this or another plant site that does not make sense in science I will spend days, sometimes weeks researching it while corresponding with the people I ve already mentioned. The point is not to prove anyone wrong but to help stop plant "rumors" before they become embedded in our brains. Read some of my posts on Spathiphyllum and Zamioculcas zamiifolia on this forum and you ll see what I mean.

    If you ve read much of my website or published work you have almost certainly run across this statement:

    "I am a serious plant collector so being able to understand the scientific treatment or description of a species is important. I need to know how to tell one species from another, a petiole from a stem and why a spathe is not a flower. Even though I am not a botanist I have received training courtesy of some of the world s top botanists and have learned that self-education and knowledge are the "tools" that can drive misinformation and ignorance from any human mind."

    "At first, I only wanted to find the "simple stuff" which was often found on garden websites or in a consumer magazine. The problem with simple information that is not scientifically written or verified is that much of it is incorrect, especially information published on numerous garden websites. More often than not that information is composed of little more than casual observation or downright invalid ideas written by a house plant grower that knows little more than the average hobbyist has already discovered. It is extremely regrettable that this misinformation then becomes "accepted" and is repeated again and again throughout the internet."
    I have included it in several articles along with my ""Much of what we believe is based on what we have yet to be taught. Listen to Mother Nature. Her advice is best."

    I would like to extend an invitation to anyone on this forum to meet a bunch of these experts themselves, the third weekend of September in Miami. Pete Boyce, one of the two world s leading experts in Alocasia and species found in Malaysia and Southeast Asia will be our guest at the IAS show and sale. Tom Croat and a bunch of other experts will also be there and it would be my pleasure to introduce all of you.

    Hope that helps, and I hope I didn't avoid answering anything!

    Steve

  • exoticrainforest
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    One caveat.

    It is considered proper in botany and science to credit others with their work. I began years ago to credit anyone that helps me understand something clearer either through personal email, a personal consultation, or in their published works.

    About one year ago I received what i considered to be a "dagger" blow when one individual I sincerely trust on another forum said I used the names of botanists, friends and experts to try elevate myself to their level. Nothing could be farther from the truth, but I am sure some on this forum think the same thing when I quote these people.

    I am not a botanist, I am not a trained scientist, but I do study this stuff all the time. I have never once even tried to imply I hold a degree in any of these subjects but anyone can learn the information if you are willing to try and read the scientific journals and texts. I just like to try as well as to share.

    If any of you feel I am trying to make myself appear to be an "expert", please understand I am not. I have said many times I am not an expert! I am just trying to share the truth of science as it relates to the plants we grow. If what I write offends you, I apologize, but I cannot stop writing it..........or sharing the sources of the information.

    In science it is considered very bad manners to not credit any scientist with his/her work.

    Steve

  • birdsnblooms
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Steve, sorry it took so long to respond.

    First, not once, while reading any of your threads/website, did I think you were trying to be something you're not, picking names out of the blue, nor did I deem any of what you've said, boasting.

    I feel you are proud of all you've accomplished throughout the years. People you've met, studying, experiencing, and doing. By doing I mean, plants you've grown successfully. No one on this planet is born with botanical or any other knowledge. It takes 'mucho' work, years of study.

    As you stated, you don't have a botony degree...you've learned by study and 'beating info, j/k' from people with degrees, scientists and published authors.
    Those reasons alone are great accomplishments. I could never meet, let alone introduce myself to an unknown, known. Too shy, for one. lol.

    I must confess, most of your information 'regarding science and plants,' is way over my head. I'm embarrassed admitting it, but it's the truth. :)
    Don't get me wrong. I understand what you're saying, Steve, but more often than not, have to check with dicionary.com or Google. Mostly botanical terms, which, thankfully are found on Google..
    So your explanations aren't going to waste or being ignored..It just takes me longer than others. I hope you understand, Steve.

    Second, I might have said it before, but I sincerely thank you for ID'ing my plant as Pandanus. You HAVE to know people, when you, yourself admitted, you had no idea of its type.
    I have posted the Pandanus picture on different forums, including 'Name That Plant.' People have come up with, 'some type of Dracaena or Yucca.' Truthfully, I was inclined agreeing with Yucca, but never heard of a trailing Yucca. lol.

    Steve, how old is your grandson? I haven't seen Madagascar, the Blockbuster movie, but my 9-yr-old niece has a copy. If that's what you mean by, 'think about it.'

    Without 'cheating,' out of all the names you mentioned, the only one that rings a bell, and totally conjecture is, Roberto Burle-Marx. His name and Philodendron come to mind. Again, a guess.

    Steve, going to send this, then restart. My computer is acting up..BRB with a different Subject of Posting


  • birdsnblooms
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Steve, one thing I find fascinating is that people took interest in plants, early in history.

    Have you ever heard of James Underwood Crockett? Author and host of the original Victory Gardens. You didn't know him, too, did you? LOl

    It was while reading Crockett's indoor garden book, '1978' it occurred to me how far back people took interest in plants, and how plants got their names. Reading his African Violet, (Saintpaulia) section made me realize, 'X' plants were named after their founders or someone affiliated. In AV's case, Saintpaulia was named after its discoverer, Baron Walter von 'Saint Paul' who came upon AV's in 1893.
    Thhe same with Clivia. Named after Lady Clive, granddaughter of Baron Robert Clive, who founded the Brittish Empire in the 18th century. Very interesting.

    It's interesting material, but does knowing the history help grow a plant/s? It might, but only for those who want to learn.

    Now, Let's Talk Science. :) Please don't take offense.

    For the Botonist, very serious gardener, or people who have a need to learn, 'like yourself,' learning the science is indeed important.
    Some terms, should be in anyone three and olders, vocabulary. Leaf, petal, root.

    Steve, do you believe, a person who decides to add a plant to decorate a corner in their new appartment, runs out, buys a Philodedron, need know every scientific term known to man? Especially people who would prefer artificial but can't afford to pay higher costs..doesn't even care to know its name?

    Or even, someone who enjoys plants, but their only interest is looks and how to prevent killing it.
    Some come to GW or other forums, ask a question or two..is given an answer/s, then goes on their merry way, never to be heard from again.
    Too technical scares some away. Or might prevent a person from buying a plant, thinking it too much work.

    I worked at Rentokil Tropical Plants, and Home Depot. You wouldn't believe the number of people who thought it too much work watering! Forget repotting or fertilizing. Instead of repotting, many would walk in, with or without a pot, and ask an employee to do the job. The same people who didn't want to 'ruin' their newly manicured nails.'
    When I suggest they purchase or borrow a library book about their new plants' care, so many would shrug their shoulders, or promise to do so, but 'you've got to be kidding' was written on their faces. Most refused free brochures. These people could care less about the science of soil, pH, fertilizer, sun, or watering.

    My point is, although people should learn as much as possible, on any subject, a person who has a few plants or a hundred, need not know every detail or term to keep plants alive.

    As long as a hobbyist is aware and practices the basics, correct light, proper watering, humidity, etc, they shouldn't come across many problems.

    My friends mother grew Christmas Cactus and African Violets in non-drainage, butter containers. My God, her plants were beautiful. She kept them alive for years. Actually, until she had to be put in a nursing home. But her AV's were filled w/flowers, CC bloomed in winter. She had other plants as well, most in standard pots...didn't ferilize and lived in a semi-heated, enclosed porch, east-facing-windows. LOL.
    At the time, I grew basic plants..I assumed age had something to do with having green thumb. lol. In my mind, this 'older,' older in her 30's, lol, woman could grow anything she desired.

    So Steve, I hope you understand where I'm coming from. I agree, knowing is important, but not needed for the general hobbyist, of course, it wouldn't hurt either.
    I believe, knowing and practicing proper procedures mandatory. I believe determining a tropical plant from a succulent from a cactus, important. And of course, like I mentioned above, proper care per plant. Many won't or don't care enough to learn simple rules. What can you do?

    Steve, one talant I possess is sensing people. Although we haven't met personally, I feel you are a well-read, conservative yet open-minded, can't forget good-looking gentleman.

    I hope I haven't offended you in any way, shape or form. Sure didn't mean to do such a thing.

    I may not be a scientiest, but feel my plants do well, pleasing to the eye. People have rang our doorbell, praising my plants. Because of my health, I haven't kept up with outdoor gardening like I once did..but before problems arose, my dh and I would catch people, neighbors and strangers, pointing out a plant, checking out all the bulbs, perrenials and annuals in our front and side yards. They couldn't see what was out back.
    BTW, I'm not bragging, please don't think bragging is my intention. It's just that plants and baking are two things I feel I do better than average.

    Anyway, it's been a long day...have a doc appt tomorrow morning..and still it snow falls, sigh.

    It's been wonderful talking to you, Steve..have a great night, well, you're probably asleep..lol..Toni

    Excuse typos..I'm exhausted..



    We dwelt with huge numbers, thousands of customers over the years.

  • greenman28 NorCal 7b/8a
    Original Author
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    One needn't know all the details to enjoy growing plants.

    However, the technical knowledge and the language of growing is essential, I think,
    to teaching others how to successfully grow plants. That's the crucial difference.
    When we understand the science and the terminology, we are better able to communicate
    information and translate techniques to a range of growers, from novice to expert.

    As the saying goes, Give a man a fish and he eats for a day; teach a man to fish,
    and he eats for the rest of his life. Growing/gardening is the same.

    Of course, as an English teacher and an etymology enthusiast, I'm a bit biased.

    Another thing I'd like to mention is the concept of Misconceptions.
    Misconceptions can actually impair or prevent future learning.
    Take gravel layers at the bottom of pots, for example. That belief
    can prevent a grower from incorporating future information about drainage
    and soil/water dynamics.

    Good growers are good learners in general. They observe, they compare, and they ask questions.
    They are able to take risks without fear of being wrong; they adapt, and they tolerate ambiguity.


    Josh

  • dellis326 (Danny)
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    For all those following this thread and any others Steve Lucas (Exoticrainforest)was been active in, I received an email from his daughters this morning informing me that Steve has past away Thursday morning. He had a number of health issues but he didn't allow them to get in his way and I admire him for that. Steve was a friend of mine and a great teacher and a great contributor to garden-web and a number of other plant forums. the following is a copy of the email sent to me.
    ___________________________________________

    To Steve's family, friends and acquaintances,

    We are sad to let you all know that our dad passed away yesterday morning around 6 am. It seems that he had a heart attack and was taken quickly. Thank you to all of you who loved and befriended our father. As most of you know our dad loved his plants. My husband sent a text to me today that said...I bet your dad is in front of God and Jesus right now negotiating the biggest Greenhouse in Heaven! I can honestly say that I wouldn't put it past him. :) It's funny how you can cry and laugh all at the same time.

    The funeral will be held this Sunday in Siloam Springs, Arkansas at the Backstrom-Pyeatte Funeral Home at 2. The address is 1401 E. Main Siloam Springs, AR 72761. In lieu of flowers we know our dad would appreciate donations sent to the Missouri Botanical Gardens. He loved this place and I know that he would much rather have your gifts sent there. Please pray for our mother Janice and brother Brad at this time. They have a long road ahead. We will send the mailing address for the Missouri Botanical Gardens in a separate email tomorrow.

    Thank you again for being a part of our dads life,

    Kari and Stephanie (Steve's Daughter's)

  • jodik_gw
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Well stated, Al, on the issue of hunting... and also on the issue of the violence of nature. Nature can be incredibly cruel, but it also has a very efficient way of balancing itself.

    I must also concur on meat sources/food sources. Americans in general, I feel, are way too far removed from their actual food sources. Most know little about commercial production, and I often wonder how many could survive without the modern conveniences of today. We have always hunted to put meat on our table, and we've always used everything we've taken. It's not a sport, but rather a method of survival, safety first, and always respectful and thankful that nature has such bounty to offer for our use.

    Back to aroids...

  • greenman28 NorCal 7b/8a
    Original Author
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Dellis,
    that is hard news to bear, but thank you for posting it here.
    I have little to say - I'm in a state of sudden shock, but I will remember Steve
    for the supreme gentleman and educator he was, and I will treature the time he spent with us.
    We were fortunate to walk with him in this Garden for a while.

    A sad day.

    Josh

  • meyermike_1micha
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    A SAD DAY INDEED!

    I am so sorry! He has helped me with many things, especiall my very stubborn ZZ plants and because of him it is happy. Everytime I look at it I think of him.

    Not only that I have been faithfully reading many of his letters, posts, links, and seen his kndness in it all.

    I am also very saddened and it is a SHOCK to me.
    This whole place was fortunate to have him and so were we.

    As Josh put it:

    A very SAD day indeed.:-(
    Our hearts go out to you

  • birdsnblooms
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    To Dellis, Kari and Stephenie,

    I've only known Steve a short time. During that time, I could tell he was an honorable, wonderful man, and I'm sure, everyone he met, loved him as well.

    He was proud of his plants, friends and accomplishements with good reason.
    I am so very sorry, and will say a prayer for his wife, children, and grandchildren.

    This is shocking news, and very sad.

    Dellis, thank you for informing everyone. Hugs, Toni

  • jodik_gw
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Wow... sad news, indeed. I had only just found him and his wonderful jungle... he will be missed by many, I'm sure.

    He now enjoys the ultimate of jungles, unencumbered by earthly bounds... he walks among the beauty and bounty that we can only imagine...

    My thoughts are with his family...

  • jojosplants
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I too am saddened by this news.
    I was just getting to know him through this thread, and his love for plants, and teaching really shines through.

    I'm sure he was loved by many and will be missed.

    My thoughts are with his friends and family, may they be at peace.

    JoJo

  • marquest
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I am so sorry. What a lost for us and his family. Such a nice gentleman.

  • schila
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Waoo, this thread with pictures really teaches you a lot about elephant ear. I have one elephant ear at home which has been with me for almost 2 years. I haven't repot it at all. All I've done is water and fertilize it here and there. Somebody on another forum suggested me to go ahead and repot this plant to a bigger pot. I'm not real experience on repotting because not all plants are repotted in the same way. For example: recently I repot some orchids and I did got rid of all the sphag around the roots, then I repotted a Peace Lily and did the same, then somebody told me that you are not suppose to mess around with the roots. By the way, my peace lily is not looking good at all. Anyway, how do you repot an Elephant Ear, do you get rid of al the soil around the roots? What kind of soil mix is better for them? I read on this thread a mixture of bark - perlite. Won't a mixture of that type keep the plant too dry? Mine is right now in a pure soil mix. If you see the pictures you will see that one leave is on the way and I didn't know that this plant had flower. It looks like one flower is on the way.
    Pictures of my Allocacia Polly

  • oneleaf
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I found that my Alocasia can be root pruned and repotted without missing a beat. In fact did another repot in mid March and new roots have already started coming out the top and bottom of the pot (when I repotted, roots only took up the top third of the pot). It has grown a new leaf and has another on the way now.

    Next repot I am going to do a MUCH larger pot as I find the root growth to be vigorous if given the space.

    I use a mixture of Napa Floor Dry, bark, granite grit, coco husk chips, and chopped sphagnum. I water every other day and never let it dry out. I fertilize every other watering at quarter strength.

  • nebraskagardener
    11 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Hi folks, I'm glad I found this thread. It has a lot of great info on it. I have a mask plant I got a few years ago. I keep it in a bright window behind a curtain. It's currently potted in soil less mix and stays moist. It's grown a LOT and sent out a flower this year. However, the tips of all the leaves are browning and curling. This just started in the last week. I don't want to repot for a few weeks until I can take it outside to do it and I plan on using some of the suggestions here for potting medium. But in the meantime, can anyone tell me what might be happening? It looks like burning, but hasn't been in the sun, and has been consistently moist. Also, what fertilizer should I use? Could I use the same one for my orchids? Oh yes, it has about 8 large stalks now and they look raggedy where the old leaves have come off, plus some new babies coming up. What would be the best way to repot this? Divide, larger pot, etc?

  • greenman28 NorCal 7b/8a
    Original Author
    11 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Hello, Nebraska! Welcome!

    Can you post a pic? Two possibilities that jump to mind are salt build-up and/or root-loss from too much moisture.

    Josh

  • nebraskagardener
    11 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    This is what all the tips look like. Otherwise the plant looks healthy. We have hard well water and I don't fertilize often, I don't think this plant has ever been fertilized. It is outgrowing the pot and it's possible it's becoming rootbound. Could that cause this if it is too tight?
    Thanks
    Annie

  • Froggy41
    11 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Hello Oneleaf,
    Why do you chose to used non-soil mixture is it better for the plant or do you get best results?

  • greenman28 NorCal 7b/8a
    Original Author
    11 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Hey, Nebraska! I can't tell from this pic alone. Do you have a pic of the plant? From this browned tip, I'd go with my previous suggestion of root-damage, most likely from salt build-up or root-loss due to moisture levels in the soil.

    Froggy, these plants love moisture and love aeration, which makes a coarse porous mix a great choice. With fertilization, copious watering, bright light, and relative warmth, you will enjoy excellent results with these plants.


    Josh

  • fossypants
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Is this an Elephant Ear Philodendron? I have found a large peapod on it which i assume will soon be a flower. I had no idea this would flower. If i wanted to start a new smaller version of this plant how would i do so? I have two and they are just getting too big to winter inside. I also have a schefflera that i would like to make smaller to winter inside. I am in zone 5 I believe. About May we put outside in there pots until it starts getting too cool at night in the fall.

  • tropicbreezent
    10 years ago

    That's often called "Tree Philodendron", Philodendron bipinnatifidum (and sometimes incorrectly Philodendron selloum).

    They're unlike some other Philos in that you can't just cut up the stem and expect each piece to sprout a shoot and become an individual plant. If you take a cutting it has to already have a root system and then you can grow it on. The base of the plant with its own root system will reshoot. That's one way of getting it a bit smaller. But with the already well developed root system it will get big again faster than a small plant (smaller root system) would.

    Schefflera grow easily from cuttings. You can take the top off and treat it as any other cutting. The base will reshoot, but again, since it has a large root system the regrowth will be faster. If your weather is cold though that will of course slow it down.

  • Tiffany, purpleinopp Z8b Opp, AL
    10 years ago

    Nothing to add, just "blurting" a pic! (Edited to add Colocasia esculenta, to answer the question below w/o adding another post. It's almost full.)

    This post was edited by purpleinopp on Sat, Jul 13, 13 at 11:06

  • monet_g
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Nice, purple. I love the ones with large leaves. Is that an Alocasia or Colocasia?
    Gail

  • fossypants
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Tropicbreeznt thank you for your help. I guess I will just enjoy this season. Hope to find someone to take them before winter.

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