Do the leaves look like Alocasia sanderiana?
Thanks for the help!

We have a similar plant at work, given to my boss. The tag that came with it says Alocasia Polly but the leaves look just like that. I assume the Polly is in the name because that is the "plant store brand" maybe? Kinda like Exotic Angels for Hoyas....ya know?

Heres a photo, and the more I look at it and compare to those in google with the name "Alocasia sanderiana" I think they are the same plant, especially when you look at the smaller leaves at the base of the plant. I hope others chime in. :)

Ashley

Polly looks good...but so does African Mask....

I'll post pics as the plant adapts to its new soil.

Josh

Josh

Handsome plant.

Miami postman Salvador Mauro created the plant as a cross of two related Alocasia variations of the same species through hybridization in Miami in the 1950’s. Alocasia longiloba is the only true parent but cultivars now known as synonyms A. watsoniana Hort.) x Alocasia sanderiana Hort were the parents he used. The word Hort. indicates a horticultural name rather than a scientific name. The plant is highly variable and takes on different shapes as a result.

It is also often sold as Alocasia Polly but the original name was spelled "Poly" and was changed by the tissue culture company in Florida that now markets the plant. Alocasia Amazonica and Alocasia Polly are one and the same plant with the only difference being Alocasia Polly does not grow as large. This is a result of variation only. Alocasia Poly (the original name) was found in a group of plants at a nursery in Miami owned by Denis and Bill Rotolante.

Interestingly, Alocasia Amazonica does not and has never grown naturally in the Amazon. All Alocasia originate in the Southeastern portion of Asia or the islands near the area. There are plants now living in South America and Central America but only as imported plants. The name "Amazonica" came from the name of Salvador's nursery, which was the Amazon Nursery. It is also sometimes referred to incorrectly as Alocasia x Amazonica.

In communication with Rafaël Govaerts, a researcher with the Royal Botanic Garden Kew in London, he has elected to indicate the name Alocasia x amazonica is an invalid name while the only possible valid name in a scientific paper for the hybrid would be the unplaced (non-accepted) name Alocasia mortefontanensis, a name used in a single botanical paper for the same cross was created in the 1800's by a pair of Jesuit priests in France.

Alocasia species often have a gene that causes them to go dormant and there is really nothing anyone can do other than to wait out the time the tuber elects to spend underground. Despite the offerings of many, all Alocasia grow from a tuber, never a corm nor bulb. Once it goes dormant just slow way down on the water and it will eventually come out of dormancy again.

The soil needs to be porous and drain quickly. Keep the plant in bright light near a window if grown indoors with the soil evenly moist.

Although I realize most will not be interested in how this plant came into being, since it is one of the most popular of all house plants a few may find the info below of interest.

Sorry if some find this lengthy post boring, I simply fell in love with learning about the plant several years ago.

Steve

This plant was re-potted into bark, perlite, and a small part of peat-moss.
The plant has been outdoors since re-potting, on a western deck, beneath oaks.
I am very glad that I convinced the owner to use a bark-based mix.

Josh

Steve

Do I get any points???? ;>)

Was such a pretty plant too, I would have liked to keep it; dramatic & graphic in appearance.

Quite a tease of me to post without pics....
but I will get some in the next few days.
The newest leaves might even be opening by then!

Josh

Through a private note I was asked to explain why I said Alocasia only grow from tubers. The uncomplicated answer is a bulb, a corm, a tuber and a rhizome are all scientifically different but all are just stems that grow either underground or run across the surface of the ground. Which is which depends on the way the starch storage structure is constructed. A good example of a bulb is an onion. Slice into it and you'll see fleshy layers.

A gladiolus or the underground banana stem are great examples of corms.

Rhizomes just run across the surface of the soil like ginger plants, most Iris and some aroids but tubers are like a potato. The link below to the University of Illinois explains this with diagrams.

Unlike when I write, it isn't complicated either!

Steve

I am really glad that we switched out the old soil for a soil-less mix.
The only trade-off is that it needs to be watered a little more often.

Josh

I'll have to see how this mix performs over the winter.
I suspect it'll be a big improvement.

Josh

War-shields..and masks.. a good way to describe it. :)

JoJo

That makes 7 new leaves since we re-potted this Spring! I suspect there might be more, too....

I hope I am making a good argument for this bark-based, gritty mix... ;)

Josh

Did you find that you needed to fertilize more often with this faster draining media?
THanks!

When we mixed the soil, we included the recommended amount of Osmocote 14-14-14, 4-month slow release.
It might have been fertilized once or twice this Summer, with Miracle Grow (mixed at 1/2 strength).
If this were my plant, under my control, I would increase the pot size slightly and I would fertilize
1/4 or 1/2 strength every two weeks during the growing season.

This plant is drip-irrigated once a day, although it probably doesn't need it. I don't have any
control over the watering since this is my buddy's plant and it's at his house....which is one of the
reasons why I wanted to get the plant into a fast-draining mix - to minimize possible consequences of
over-watering. During the winter is when this mix will really show its worth.

Josh

Did you find the roots real delicate? I have only worked closely with Orchid roots before this so I was scared to rip too much.

Josh

I hired a temporary worker to help in my atrium about one year ago and he did not like roots hanging in the air. I found him cutting large root systems that we had cultivated for years, some hanging 7 or 8 feet from over head tree. To me they are part of the beauty of a natural rain forest. Roots hang from every tree in a rain forest and more plants grow in the air than in soil.

His employment ended quickly.

I've never figured out how to post a photo here but I also refuse to use Photo Bucket for personal reasons. I'd love to show you a photo or two illustrating what I mean but the best I can offer is to ask you just click on our homepage and look at a few photos. Never fear, there is not an advertisement on the site other than our recommending growers join the International Aroid Society since I am an officer.

We don't sell plants. The Exotic Rainforest is just a large collection of plants, mostly aroids.

Josh, I'm trying your mix on some plants as well.

Steve

It's very nice to have an experienced grower here to offer advice and anecdote.
Plus, what a thrill to have you experimenting with this gritty, bark-based soil!
In the interest of full disclosure, I modified this mix according to principles
I learned from Al (Tapla). I have found it to produce exemplary growth and vitality
for a wide variety of genus and species: hot peppers, Christmas Cacti, Japanese Maples,
Conifers, Citrus, Castor Beans, Aralia, Oaks, Willows, Ailanthus, Avocado, Agave, Gardenia,
Peace Lily, Hoyas, Dieffenbachia, Pothos, Wandering Jew, Creeping Charlie, Birches, Ferns,
Chinese Pistache, Horsetail Rush, Tomatoes, and more.

Oneleaf, great job! I forgot to tell you that you have a beautiful plant, by the way.
I'm glad you diagnosed the bark size-issue before it could become an issue.

Josh

According to the link that Steve posted, these plants like to stay quite moist.

It's watered every day by drip-irrigation, so I would consider it constantly moist.
This might be too much water, but the plant has spent the summer on a deck with a Western exposure.
I think that has mitigated any over-watering concerns.

You'll be the best judge of your plant, but I would advise keeping the mix moist, too.

Josh

i find i will likely be watering it every other day during the summer, at least until the bark and sphag breaks down a bit more and starts to retain more water. I hope this media can last a couple years but I do not mind an annual repot. I used to be afraid of root pruning and repotting but after doing this one and my hoyas, I am itchy to do the rest of my plants!

2006
I loved this plant so much when I saw it I could just picture it in a my combo pot. I have a shady porch that I do a pot combo for every year and this plant was perfect. I brought it inside for the winter and it did not survive. I did not know it would go dormant.

2007
Brought another plant and used the same pot just added fresh soil on top and planted the new one. Again as soon as I brought it in for the Winter it lost all its leaves and I thought it was dead.

2008
Refuse to buy that plant again. Planted Begonias and Caladims in the porch combo pot.

2009
Could not resist brought it one more time. This time I did not use it in the combo pot when winter came I put it on a table beside the radiator in the sunny window. It surived the winter with 2 leaves.

Summer 2010
It is beautiful and growing. Now the amazing thing. The 2 that I brought in 2006 and 2007 is now growing in the combo pot with the begonia. It appears they have been dormant for
3 years and now they are growing. (scratching my head) How could they have laid dormant all that time and now grow back. This has been the hottest and most humid year we have had in several years. Perhaps all this heat and humidity has awaken the dead. I do not know.

If you would like to see pics I will take pics tomorrow of it growing in the combo pot. The leaves are small.

I think the trick with these plants, if there is one, is proper soil mix.

By the way, I saw the plant yesterday....a new leaf is spiking up!

Josh

2006 in the combo pot.

2010 growing in the begonia combo pot.

2010
This is the the plant that lived through the 2009 winter. As I said I did not plant it in a combo pot. I grew it alone in its own pot.

Now, an update on the plant we've been following.
Yesterday, I received a text at work, telling me that the Alocasia was flowering!
This morning I squeezed in some time to get photo documentation.

Wishful thinking....? Or dare I hope for a fruiting body and spathe?! ;)
Steve, I believe it was your web-site where I saw an image of the "flower."
Sorry for the crappy pics; bad time of day for lighting, and I was in haste.

Yet, again, I couldn't be more pleased with this mix.
My buddy thanks me every time I stop by... ;)

Josh

I got another text, Friday, letting me know that the flower was open!
I missed the grand opening, but I did manage to snap a few shots the following day.
The sun had come around the southside of the house, so there was some harsh glare.
Regardless, I am incredibly happy with the outcome.

Four months after re-potting, the Alocasia blooms!

If you've followed this Thread, and you weren't convinced before,
I hope that you'll now give a gritty, bark-based mix a try......
or at least mention it to other growers, if Elephant Ears aren't your cup of tea.
After all, I don't grow them, either ;)

Marquest, I couldn't detect any scent.

Xuan

This has been a great discussion about this plant it should be saved somewhere. When I first brought it there was no info anywhere and you have done a awesome pic documentation.

Thanks, Marquest!
I think I see what you mean - I didn't miss much the first day of the bloom.
Looks almost exactly the same from when it first blooms to when it fades.

I'm very glad to have documented the process, as it was a real learning experience.
I had faith that this method would produce results, but one always takes a risk
when handling other folks' plants.

The final stage - and probably the most important - will be over-wintering.


Josh

Just remind him if it goes to sleep do not put it in the trash.

Josh

2009 bud

2008 bud

Notice both years, Alocasia budded in Nov?

Hasn't bloomed 'yet' 2010. It's usually summered outdoors, but was kept inside this past summer. Wonder if being confined set back this years bloom/s or won't flower period. It's still too early to tell, since in the past it's bloomed as late as Feb.

Does anyone know if Alo is a once a year bloomer or more?

Kitty, it'd be great if Alocasia Amazonica was as hardy as Arum..Arums thrive in z5/6. Alocasias would freeze their bulbs off, well corms.lol..

BTW, if Alocasia leaves die back, folks, don't toss it. Whether or not foliage yellows and dies depends on care/temp. If this happens, allow dormancy. 6 or so weeks later, you'll see a little, green sprout peeking from the soil. Most winters my Alocasia remains green, other times every leaf yellowed then withered away.

This could happen to us northeners, don't know about warmer climates. Toni

If you check the post dated July 27th, you can see a full pic of the container -
I know it's just a visual reference, but I don't know the exact measurement of the pot
offhand. I'm going to guess that the pot is about 7 inches wide at the top,
and about 6 inches tall - fairly small for such a large Alocasia.

When we re-potted, we root-pruned, as well, and still had to squeeze roots into the pot ;)
We used Orchid Bark, Pumice, Perlite, and a small fraction of the original peat-based mix....
basically, the old soil deep amongst the roots that we didn't want to remove.

Fertilized a few times over the Summer, and watered just about everyday on drip-system.

Josh

Wonder how big AA's get growing under-ground. Your leaves are huge in a pot, Josh.
BTW, there's another Alocasia w/identical markings. The differences are, Amazonica has long but narrower leaves, the other has shorter/rounded, but very wide leaves.

It's impossible for me to see an online pot pic, and be able to tell its size. Often, a 4" looks like an 8..lol.

I'm embarrassed admitting how long since my Alo got freshened soil..too long. Plus, last summer, nary a plant was fertilized due to surgery. Hopefully, next spring and on is different.

Josh, I also have a Colocasia, 'Black Velvet.' That guy spent summer outdoors..the leaves grew so big I ended up removing bottom stems/foliage..got way too big. I think Colocasia's are easier growing indoors than Alocasia.
Though Alo's have prettier leaves. a seller on Ebay sells hundreds of Alo's, one is nicer than the next..

Toni, I'll measure the pot as soon as I can. Stay tuned.

I hope you'll consider a mix like the one used for this growing season.
I know you have Orchid Bark and Perlite.... ;)


Josh

I will not show you a pic of mine you will want to have a funeral for the poor plant.

Marquest..whatever your Alo looks like, don't discard.
What type of light is yours in?

Summers my guy were outside, there were leaves galore, BUT, leaves that grew huge w/long stems were too heavy and eventually bent.
Some winters leaves remain, but the last few years, 2-3 leaves remained..but always bloomed.

My guy has been in the same pot for years. It could use fresh soil. How often do you repot? Toni

I hope you'll try it! The results are phenomenal.


Josh

I can't even count the number of plants. lol. Between 300-400. I gave a few to family, and come spring, I decided to give a girl who can't afford plants, some of mine. Pots/soil, too of course.
So, nope, not fond of watering..

Last time I watered, 2 plants fell on my head, and mud scattered all over the floor..ah, that was fun..lol..Toni

That's nice of you to extend your collection to the less fortunate.
(It's a good way to lighten the load, too!)


Josh

But no matter what mood I'm in, I wouldn't want to water daily..oh Lord! Perhaps if I had few plants, 50-100, it wouldn't be bad watering everyday.

Oh daily interaction...that's during misting/showering. A great way to check for bugs. OR on the positive side..flowers... :)

During the Summer, I water my peppers, citrus, ferns, and maples every 2-3 days.
My avocado and my pachira are watered every 3-5 days depending on conditions.
Then there are the succulents....they get watered every 5-14 days (on average).

I just got back from a nice walk in the rain....low 40F's here today.
Upper 20F's overnight. Last night we got a light dusting of snow!


Josh

I was surprised that it is doing so bad it did so good last winter in the same spot in the Sunroom. It could be our very cloudy cold weather making it under perform this year. I am down to one half dead leaf now.

Josh just asked privately for info on Alocasia Amazonica so I gave him the link to my site which is easy to find on the net. The plant was inbred with two variations of the same species (Alocasia longiloba). The answers are complicated so I won't even waste your time.

Toni, don't want to be over technical (I know, I always am) but it isn't a corm either, it is a tuber. No aroid grows from a bulb or corm, only tubers. There are technical differences in all three. There are a few corm-like tubers in the aroid family but the distinctions are very complicated to explain.

I know, no one really cares but I keep trying to explain.
Just in case anyone is interested I am posting a link that explains the differences along with other questions about aroids.

Steve
www.ExoticRainforest.com

Nice walk in the rain @ 40F???? lol..at 40 I hybranate..lol
My hair, which is semi-long, would friz like Bozo the Clown. lol.

Marquest. Hope you didn't think I was ordering you around when I suggested not tossing your Alo. Sorry if it sounded that way.. I agree, your plant is probably going dormant. Oddly enough, this time of year, my Alo flowers..'one bud,' lol..Still, better than nothing. For some reason it hasn't. It could be lack of sun, 'even though it's in the same spot it's been the last 'X' yrs.'

Steve, you're right. I should know the difference among bulbs, tubers, corms. Most of my plants are roots, except for Scillia, sp, Amazon Lily, and one Alocasia, but it's no excuse not to read which is which.

Steve, you might know the answer. Have you ever heard of a Hilo Beauty? It's usually coined Alocasia. I once posted a pic on another forum, and someone said, it's not an Alo, it's actually a Caladium. Then, a second person debated with the first, and a third person joined in..lol..The end result was, no one, 'including scientiests,' knew if Hilo was an Alocasia or Caladium. Toni

I enjoyed our discussion, and the Latin/terms link was very helpful.

Toni, I just got back from a jog...no rain, but it's a nice brisk 39F out ;)
I wear shorts, a sweatshirt, and a down vest to keep warm. Gloves, too...
long black medieval gauntlets, actually. I wonder what folks think as they
drive by? Ha!

I do grow a few different maples, yes. They're potted, but they're not quite bonsai...
bonsai in training, let's say. I have three Trident Maples and three unknown Maples.
I also have a Coral Bark Maple - 'Sango kaku' - but it's planted in the ground.
It's stems are very red right now...it's lovely.

Here's a link to a Thread on a couple of my Trident Maples and how I collected them:

Potted Trident Maple


Josh

No Toni I did not take it that way. You are to nice I would never take anything you say as a negative.

The article written by Dr. Wilbert Hetterscheid explains the species is relatively new to science and was never properly identified. It is also unknown where this plant originated in nature.

The correct species name is Caladium praetermissum and little is known about the species. All references to this plant being either an Alocasia or a Xanthosoma do not take into consideration the requirements to fit in those genera. The plant does however fit the genus Caladium.

This is going to be complicated so read it if you dare. This was taken from the Royal Botanic Garden Kew's site CATE Araceae also now has listed as Caladium praetermissum :

Distinguishing Features: Tuberous geophytes; leaves usually peltate, blade often variegated, cordate-sagittate, sagittate or rarely trisect, fine venation reticulate, inframarginal collective vein present; spathe strongly constricted, blade withering immediately after anthesis, tube persistent; spadix fertile to apex; flowers unisexual, perigone absent; male flowers forming a truncate synandrium, pollen shed in monads. Differs from Scaphispatha in spathe tube always convolute at anthesis, well developed sterile flowers between male and female zones, stylar region as broad as ovary (Caladium paradoxum has discoid, coherent stylar regions), placentas 1-2 (-3), parietal to subbasal.

Whew, that is a mouthful! If any of you are curious what those terms mean you can find most at the link below which Josh mentioned above.

I just realized I have not added all the terms to the list of over 300 terms yet but attempt to add the rest tomorrow.

I worked on this for over one year and had it checked by a top botanist for accuracy. My goal was to make it understandable, not mumbo-jumbo but if you find something hard to understand please point it out.

Steve

Are you affiliated with Birds & Blooms Magazine? I used to subscribe, but most plants/articles discussed hardy, z5 plants. Wish I'd seen the rainforest article. Think I stopped receiving this mag in 2006.

I'm going to add your site to favorites, then read articles when I have more time.
However, I scanned your Aroids; beautiful.

I have a question to ask but don't know if it should be asked in a public forum.
Let me put it this way. Do you remember Randy and Sherm? And did you once specialize in Philos? Other tropicals, too. Toni

The conures were wanting to breed and I didn't have the facility so they now live with a pro breeder near Little Rock.

I published one major article with Birds and Blooms on the atrium which ended up in their book on top articles of the year. Perhaps I need to contact them again.

Certainly, if questions are of interest to the growers ask and I'll do my best to answer. Who know, I'll probably learn some new things to as a result of the discussion. Otherwise, I welcome anyone to write to me personally and receive an inbox filled almost daily. The email address at the bottom of the homepage. Right now there is something just under 300 pages of info on the site plus I'm working on another 40 or so pages now. I do my best to research everything thoroughly and have a qualified botanist review the info before I put it on the net so many projects don't move quickly.

Some of the most frequently read articles can be found listed in the lower right corner of the homepage but other links are scattered around the same page.

Writing is a great way to self educate and that was and still is my original goal. The atrium is open to the public any time of the year, all we ask is you call first.

Glad you got it to open.

Steve

You might say I cut my teeth on aroids as I learned about the wonderful world of containerized plants. Philodendrons, Pothos, and the Arrowhead plant/vine were some of my very first houseplants... but that was a lifetime ago.

Eventually, my passion for indoor grown, containerized plants settled elsewhere... I'm a bulb freak! I grow tender amaryllids, for the most part... although, my interests do include orchids and a few other plant types.

This coming spring will be the first time I attempt to grow an Alocasia. I see them offered every spring as large softball sized tubers at the larger stores carrying bulbs for spring planting, but I've never tried one. I can see that I must!

Thanks for providing the link to all that enjoyment! I'm going back for more, now... :-)

Come anytime. All of you!

Steve

PS: Just follow Mother Nature's advice and growing an Alocasia will be easy, although there are a few species that are very tough to keep alive since they require highly mineralized soil! The one sold as "Alocasia rugosum" which is actually Alocasia melo is one of the toughest!

An ingredible site! It'd take a year to complete to read through, let alone learn, pronounce and spell names. lol.
I browsed, looking for botanical names ending in 'eae,' eg, Araceae. I haven't the faintest idea how this ending in pronounced. Didn't see it on your site.

Wizard, Sunny and Star/Cher, lol, and Janice are lovely. Looking at S&S's pic makes my heart ache. We had a beautiful, Sun Conure, Sunrise. Clipping vs non-clipping wings are a hell of a decision. Pros and Cons.
I miss her so much. Thought about adopting another and an African Grey. (preferably Congo, but Timneh would do.) Currently we have 4 Cockatiels, the oldest, 14-yr-old Mystic. Over the years, he and his spouse/s, he's outlived three wives, lol, birthed many adorable chicks. He's a White-Face Pied, his last ex was White-Face Pearl. I've kept his son and daughter. His son is White-face and daughter Albino. Same mother. Weird, huh?
Anyway, bet your place is true jungle. I too would love to visit, but with 4 birds, an English Mastiff, Shih tzu, and Iguana, it's hard finding sitters.

Birds are highly-intelligent. They talk, mimic, and can be trained to perform tricks. Mystic says 'hi,' but he's mainly a whistler..Andy Griffith theme son and Jingle Bells. lol.
I don't believe birds should be confined to a cage 24/7.

Steve, you might have mentioned this before..where do you live? Which state?

You're blessed, you should thank your stars. Atrium and green house.

I didn't have a chance to open all Philo links, but those I saw are gorgeous. And your Anthuriums! I love your variegated Philo 'Floria Beauty Variegated'...wish I could find one..lol..I have a similar Philo w/o the variegation.
Well, it once had variegation, but lost it a few yrs ago.
Maybe you can explain why this happened. I'll post two pics. The variegated was taken in 2007, the latter, 2009.

I never really noticed, but in the 2007 pic one leaf is highly varigated..Most if not all others are green. More sun? It's in a semi-unobstructed south window. Toni

Toni, you can find a pronunciation guide with over 300 definitions here: http://www.exoticrainforest.com/Botanical terminology.html

We worked hard to make sure these terms could be understood and used by anyone but in some cases you will need to cross reference other definitions to understand the entire subject. The original work appeared in the 2010 edition of Aroideana, the journal of the International Aroid Society but I've since added many more terms. Due to my love of the rain forest and aroids in particular I read scientific literature all the time and often run into terms I don't understand so I began a long time ago creating my own list of definitions which eventually became that article and then this page on the site. I received a great deal of help from two scientists and a Latin expert in creating the page. You will also find a list of the references used to create the page at the very bottom.

Here is an example:

Araceae
(a-RAY-see-eh, some use a-RA-kay-eye)
A family of approximately 3800 species in 116-120 genera commonly known as aroids. An aroid is a plant that reproduces with an inflorescence including a spadix surrounded by a modified leaf known as a spathe. The spadix is a central fleshy spike on which both sexes of imperfect flowers with a single sex (male or female) as well as perfect flowers containing both sexes are formed. The only exception is the genus Lemna and its relatives known as "duckweeds"

Variation has three causes and only one is stable. The one that is stable can be found in Epipremnum aureum (Pothos), Dieffenbachia seguine and other plants that inherit it in the geneses. The others are explained on the page with the definitions:

chimera (KEE- mer-a)
A chimera is a plant or part of a plant such as a leaf blade that is composed of layers that are genetically different and whose apical meristem is composed of two different types of tissues, one pigmented and one not pigmented. The most common form is a variegated plant where the leaf may be partially white or yellowish as a result of a lack of the ability to synthesize chlorophyll. These white and yellow patterns are caused by tissues without chlorophyll or other plant pigments. This is normally due to defective tissue formed without pigments since the meristem that produced them lacks cells containing pigments. This kind of chimaral variegation is not stable and morphs as the plant grows. Many popular foliage plants including some commonly available aroids are chimeras and many are artificially created in tissue culture laboratories rather than by nature via the introduction of a harmless virus known as the Colour Break Virus which inhibits the growth of chlorophyll in parts of the plant including the leaf, stem and petiole. The Colour Break virus is often unstable and in many cases the variegation fades in time. Chimeras are also commonly seen in nature but neither chimeral variegation nor viral variegation is commonly passed along through seeds

If you also read the definitions for Photosynthesis and Meristem this will be clearer.

We live in NW Arkansas right on the border with Oklahoma. The name of the town is Siloam Springs and is about 30 minutes away from the University of Arkansas. I have students from local universities that use our atrium in the spring as a research facility and even though I am not a professor I do teach most of those sessions.

I also love the Sun Conures but once they want to start breeding it is far better for the birds to give them to a facility that has the space and the knowledge to allow them to do so. We once had to give up a Moluccan Cockatoo for the same reason and it is very sad.

Steve

The catalogs for spring planted bulbs have begun to arrive, and I notice they have several Alocasia varieties to choose from... the plumbea "nigra" looks very interesting. I like the dark green.

It's settled, then... an Alocasia will be the focal for a patio pot I have in mind.

Now I'm really wanting to visit the local greenhouse/nursery... just to enjoy the atmosphere! See what you started, Steve?! ;-)

Steve~
The "jungle" is nice! And like Jodik, i'm ready for a day in a greenhouse too!

The birds are also beautiful! I used to raise birds and am getting ready to again as we speak.
Is that a red rump parakeet in there also?
The ones I miss the most were my Golden Mantels.

Thanks for sharing!
JoJo

Well, no wonder I don't have a Chimera. I pronouned it as spelled. chim ER a. LOL. Just kidding..the reason I don't have one is high cost.

Thanks for explaining the EAE sound, and other info. Of course, browsing through your site will require serious reading, and re-reading. lol.

Most people shopping for a plant use common names. Spider Plant, Devil's Ivy, and some names sound made up. lol.

Bromiliad and Kalanchoe are two common plants, always mispronounced. Most say, brom-il-ade, not bro-Mill-e-ad
Kalanchoe..kal an choe when it's kal-en-KO-ee

When I worked at Rentokil and HD, customers asked for plants by common names..forget botanical..they want a simple name, one they'll remember..Spider, Devil's Ivy, or just, plain Orchid..lol.

Jojo, never heard of Golden Mantels. Are they tropical birds? Toni

Well, no wonder I don't have a Chimera. I pronouned it as spelled. chim ER a. LOL. Just kidding..the reason I don't have one is high cost.

Thanks for explaining the EAE sound, and other info. Of course, browsing through your site will require serious reading, and re-reading. lol.

Most people shopping for a plant use common names. Spider Plant, Devil's Ivy, and some names sound made up. lol.

Bromiliad and Kalanchoe are two common plants, always mispronounced. Most say, brom-il-ade, not bro-Mill-e-ad
Kalanchoe..kal an choe when it's kal-en-KO-ee

When I worked at Rentokil and HD, customers asked for plants by common names..forget botanical..they want a simple name, one they'll remember..Spider, Devil's Ivy, or just, plain Orchid..lol.

Jojo, never heard of Golden Mantels. Are they tropical birds? Toni

I had a pair of red and yellow.(like the 3rd bird in second row). and a Blue pair.(second pic, 3rd row)

JoJo

Toni, I understand fully. Wizard thinks she and I are bonded and often becomes very possessive when anyone new is around. She does however totally accept a few females but never allows another man to handle her.

I have been bitten in the past quite badly by some of our birds when they wanted to become sexually active and I know exactly what you mean by "that wouldn't work". That was largely the reason we had to give up the Moluccan Cockatoo and several other macaws we've kept during the past 35 years. Sometimes the birds just need to be with others of their own kind.

I used to spend a lot of time at Parrot Jungle in Miami during the 20 plus years we lived there and have seen several of the beautiful Catalina Macaws. My favorites are the Hyacinths but I'll never spend that kind of cash on a bird when so many need good homes and can often be taken in from a bird rescue for free.

And yes, we did have a Red Rump from Australia for a long time. He also wanted to mate and was eventually given to a breeder that specialized in that species. At first we bought him a mate but she lasted less than a week before he killed her. Males, as you already know, can become very aggressive when it is time to mate.

Maybe we should start a new thread somewhere for this one! And sorry we have totally grabbed your thread Josh!

Steve

PS: I'm glad you found the definitions page useful Toni. If you didn't read the opening carefully, can I recommend you read it again? I believe discussions such as the one Josh started here are very important so we can all share good information with each other. You'll find why I believe that so dearly in the opening to the "dictionary" article.

Especially paragraph four and following.

I don't mind the bird-talk one bit....I'm just sitting back and enjoying the info being transmitted,
since I don't have birds nor know much about the various breeds.

Besides, each new response keeps this Thread on the first page, where folks are likely to encounter
the Alocasia information (and the avian info if they continue the read).

Please, by all means continue!


Josh

If you don't mind, I sure don't. You and I have traded info enough I believe you know all I really care about is seeing honest discussions where everyone can express their opinion and then hopefully arrive at good usable info where we all benefit.

Steve

O.K.... I have a few questions.
Would this Elephant Ear do O.K. in a semi low light situation?

If not, could someone suggest something close that would.

Small room, small east window and over head florescent lights? Simple household lights at the moment, will upgrade later.

I am currently painting a room and getting it ready to start raising birds again! Finches, doves, maybe a med. sized bird or two. Love conjures. ;-)

I want plants in the room for the birds to feel safe, comfy and as close to a natural environment as possible. I've done very well in the past in this room, but never got around to the plants.

JoJo

Steve, you're right..Poor Josh..maybe he'll get a bird. lol
To keep this short, I too wanted a Hyacinth..called a few out of state breeders..One woman had a pair for 20,000! Sheesh. Think they're about 8,000.00 (each) nowadays.
Amazing, free birds..Not here, even though there are, literally thousands of unwanted birds, and few shelters.

I know some males turn agressive as demons during breeding, but wasn't aware a male would kill a female. Was he disinterested? Some males ignore certain females, want nothing to do with them. I mentioned my male outlived three wives..Although he's my sweetheart, not here for breeding purposes, I adopted a 3-yr-old female. He can't stand her. She's been around over a year, yet he wants nothing to do with her. Aside from me, he hangs with his 3-yr-old son..lol.

Steve, I intend on reading your entire thread when things are settled. Today, the kitchen sink plugged and flooded. No matter how careful I am showering plants, a little medium goes down the drain. A little turns to a lot. lol.

Josh, thanks..thinking about getting a feathered friend??? They're great companions, highly intelligent, active clowns, and quite theatrical. Everything from training, to step on your finger to teaching words is fun. Especially once they learn. They're great at 'parroting' a ringing phone, door bell, but more important, we must watch what we say. lol. As long as people are aware there are pros and cons, learn a birds need..healthy foods, and a bird should never be locked 24 hours a day. They go insane, acquire habits that become obsessions, when gone too far, and worse, these compulsions 'in many cases,' can't be stopped. It's terribly sad.

Jojo, do you summer plants outdoors? Your east window w/light should be okay for your Alocaisa, as long as the 'small' room isn't stuffy, too cold, and has, at the minimum 40% humidity. Mine is overwintered in the upstairs bathroom, occassional showers and daily misting. It's adjacent an unobstructed, west window.
It's fertilized with Fish Emulsion, but you probably have your own type in mind, be it chemical or organic.
Next spring my guy will need a larger pot or fresh soil.I'm thinking about adding Bone Meal.
I'm also a SuperThrive believer, so it gets a ST watering once a month.

Before stocking up on birds, open a window so paint fumes dissipate.
My friend lived upstairs from her mother, 'different appartments.' Her mother painted the room directly below the room my friend kept her birds.
The following day, my friens's 4 pairs of Cockatiels were dead. Her birds were happy, healthy birds.
JJ, I sent you a message..did you get it?

Anyway, you said your window is small. How small is small?
Is there a ledge or will a table fit in the room?
I'm assuming you're thinking of getting A. Amazonica? Toni

This link has a new photo of Wizard and I taken just last week by former Boston Globe journalist and photographer David Arnold. David was here for a little over a day to go through a bunch of my old underwater photos for material on project he is doing about world wide coral reef damage. I worked for Skin Diver Magazine during the 1980's and have a ton of old photos taken when the coral reefs were in far better shape.

Sad, many reefs in the Caribbean and Florida are all but dead by comparison to what they used to be like.

Steve

Second. Your Billbergia, sp, flower is gorgoues. Because it's a Bromiliad, does mom die back while babies sprout? Also, is there more than one type of Billbergia?

Wizard munching away. lol. You've got a very healthy guy. No plucked feathers, and vivid colors.
What does he eat?

My Birds Daily Diet.

I make a large batch of: 15 Beans, Rice, various veggies, broccoli, carrots, spaghetti, potatoes, cauliflour, etc.

Day...a portion of bean mix every day.

Seeds... always accessible.

Vitamins. Nekton S

Night...eggs, mixed w/peas, corn, sweet potato on bread.
Since they won't touch fruit, I sneak 'X' fruit in the egg mix.

Also...grains, 'large and small,' millet, twice a week, treats, occassionally. Cuttlebone, mineral bars..
The males eat from my plate, lol..they love mashed potatoes, rice, some veggies. All are strict vegetarians. Mystic, my 14-yr-old, loves ice cream. I know, it's a no-no, but considering his age, and the small amout he nibbles...well, I can't deprieve him.

Anyway, they eat better than I do, lol.

We also have an English Mastiff and Shihtzu. Sam and Coco. They'll eat almost anything..canned food, moist meals, dry, plus tons of ppl food..All are spoiled rotten.

Ane one 3-yr-old Iguana, Iggy. He eats mixed greens and other veggies, fruits.

Our pet food/vet bill per year could is unbelievable.
Sam will be 11, Jan 31. 4 years older than most Mastiff's live. He's slowed down a lot, and I know he'll soon be in doggie heaven. Coco is 2.5, and jealous of Sam, even though he gets a ton of affection. His fur grows faster than weeds. I wasn't planning on getting another pet, but as a pup, he was physically and mentally abused. How could a person throw a 2 lb dog against a wall? Or lock him in a closet 90% a day? Sick, damn people.
We got Coco Christmas Day, 2009. He's now a very happy dog, though, for his age, his bones rattle and roll. I don't like this. He lacked some type of vitamin either during birth or the first 6 months of his life.

Then there's the plants....lol..

STeve, since you know your plants, can you identify this Anthurium? When I got it, all it said was heart-shaped Anthurium. lol..

The top of each leaf, where heart forms, looks like they blend together, with a hole in the center.
Snapped this pic lastnight, but bought it in 2009. Any idea? Thanks, Toni

There have been over 300 species of Billbergia described but many are synonyms of other species. The top Bromeliad guy in the world (Harry Luther) has corresponded with me for quite a few ears and now lives in Singapore working with the Singapore Botanical Garden. Before that he was with the Marie Selby Botanical Garden in Sarasota, FL before the garden was all but taken over by the Federal Government since they unknowingly had a rare and illegal orchid from Peru in their collection. You can find the store on the net. When I want to know details about Bromelia I always ask Harry.

Wizard has a diet much like what you feed. Largely fruits with fresh nuts (she loves Brazil nuts, Pine Nuts and almonds) along with some fresh sun flower seeds and freeze dried fruit. She relishes a fresh banana or fresh apple or pear. She also loves to sit on my shoulder during dinner and share whatever I'm drinking as well as grab food from the plate but Janice does not like for me to allow her to do that! The grand kids love it!

Your plant appears to be a Philodendron but we can settle that easily if you can post a few photos. The primary difference in a Philodendron and Anthurium is Anthurium have a collective vein and a geniculum while Philodendron do not.

Collective veins come in pairs and are simply the union of part of all of the primary lateral veins and extend all the way to the apex (end or tip). The collective vein is a submarginal vein (not touching the edge) that lies parallel as well as near the leaf margin into which the primary lateral veins run. The collective vein may be a continuation of a primary lateral leaf vein often the lowermost or the uppermost basil vein and are observed in Anthurium, Syngonium, Alocasia, Colocasia, Xanthosoma, Pycnospatha, Arisaema, Protarum, some Amorphophallus and other genera.

OK, plain English. Look at the edge of the leaf and see if you can see a vein running about 1/8th inch to 1/4 inch around the edge. The large veins on the leaf will feed into it.

A geniculum is like an elbow or wrist and allows the leaf to turn and orient itself with the sun to better collect light. Look up both terms on my definitions page and you can see photos of each.

If you take good closeup photos of the leaf showing the detail at the edge of the leaf I can be more certain. Also take a good close-up of the petiole that supports the leaf right at the point where it joins the leaf. If it is an Anthurium the geniculum should be obvious and often has scar.

To me it looks like Philodendron sagittifolium but that species is highly variable and can take on many forms. If you will post good photos showing both the top and bottom of the leaf as well as describe the shape of the petiole we can almost certainly figure it out. There is a chart on my definitions page that shows the shapes of the petioles (I think). I know it is somewhere on the site!

I have a detailed page on Philodendron sagittifolium as well. Also read the page on Growing Anthurium species and it explains all the differences.

Steve

PS: Chances are you'll never read all the "stuff" I've written. There are now close to 300 pages on the site and I'm working on more. It is called "self education".

Birds were a part of my life for a while... a lifetime ago. My children were raised with a multitude of pets and domestic animals... and today, I just have the dogs, a pair of Olde Bulldogges.

The thread hasn't really been shot to heck... flora and fauna do go nicely together!

I'm about to make dinner, 'stew' but will snap pics later. I inspected a few leaves.
There's one center vein with smaller veins snaking off the main vein. lol..That doesn't make sense. I'll take pics.
BTW, while looking over the plant, I found a home-made tag. The entire name didn't fit...it's A. W A T E R M A L
a space, then C A S S...that's all that fit on the label.

I keep a yearly plant journal. I'll check the journal, see if I entered the entire name. In one section names, place purchased, dates are jotted down. 'sometimes, out of laziness or lack of space, I leave out the whole name. when plants are fertilized, ST'd, flowering, and other info.

I enjoy reading about plants, Steve. I admit, many terms are over my head..Sometimes I'll Google/dictionary.com a word. Guess I need to read 'Plant Terms for Dummies.' lol.

Okay, off to make stew..sigh. My puter is on. Thanks for everything. Toni

Anthurium watermaliense is from Central America and does sometimes climb but is primarily a terrestrial species. You can find photos of the midrib, primary lateral leaf veins (the ones you just described), the geniculum and other features including the petiole on the link below.

Let me know what you think.

Steve

PS: Save me some stew!

Steve

Also, I got this Anthurium??? as a bonus plant. They didn't include a species, just Anthurium.
I'm thinking it's some type of Alocasia..if you can describe this plant I'dd appreciate it.
It was outside, and burned. Silly me tossed instead of waiting. Since then, I've looked everywhere for this plant. Would you happen to know what it is, if it's an Anthurium or Alocasia?

Yep, come to dinner..It'll be done in a couple hours.

Steve, one reason I like your site, when you discuss a plant, you repeat the name often. That teaches people like myself to remember the name, '20,000 syllables,' lol.

Thanks again, Toni

Not too big nor small.

Another small fountain in the back plant room.

They don't compete with the Amazons, lol, but help. There's all types of tricks raising humidity. Toni

Can you post closeups of the top and bottom of the leaf of the second plant? A good photo of the petiole and the base of the plant where it enters the ground may be useful as well.

Alocasia have a collective vein but no geniculum

Steve

I appreciate your help up thread.

Rosella's, sorry I wasn't more specific earlier.
Yes, beautiful birds. But, no they don't talk, but have an amazing song/whistle. Need lots of room to fly too!

Plants don't summer too well or for very long out here. The heat is brutal, the sun harsh, and monsoon season is rough storms at times.

They can go out for a spell in the spring, but July-Oct. is rough. ;-)

The room will be well vented due to having birds in it. Two screen doors to keep other critters out. ;-)

The window is about 12" wide and almost 3'tall. No room for a table, there's a sink under it.

I saw one like Josh has pictured. was the name ever narrowed down? lol.. I need to re read the thread. ;-)

I appreciate your help/concerns with the paint.. but no worries.. I know what I am doing, raised birds for years.
I probably won't be getting them until March when we have the huge bird show/expo.
Saving pennies. lol.. My taste in birds espicially finches is not cheap! lol..

yes, I got your email, sorry I haven't had a chance to reply, sun. was an all day family day.

I saw a plant like you just posted as needing a name for and it looks like the one I saw called Alocasia 'Stingray'.

The fountains are nice, thank you for posting them. They're what I had in mind for size. I've been shopping for awhile now. Besides plants, the room will be my crafting area, so the fountain is partly for my wanting/soothing.

I have a rock/waterfall one on the patio, but I don't think I will be able to get it through the door of the house. lol! It holds about 10 gallons.

Thanks again,
JoJo

JoJo, Alocasia Amazonica is the name we're going with! ;)

As for the birds....no, not a chance of a bird for me, I'm afraid. They might harm my cats!
I've raised birds (chickens, ducks) and rehabilitated many different varieties - from Blue Jays
to blackbirds to Mourning Doves - but I don't keep animals inside the home anymore.
Strictly speaking, I don't even think the human animal ought to be kept indoors....
but that's a philosophical discussion for another time ;)


Josh

Thanks for the name of the plant! ;-)

I used to have a bird that liked to land on my dogs heads and tease.lol..

JoJo

Al

Al,
If you keep flaunting those little beauties, I'm gonna have to come steal them, lol...
Are you working with them now, or is it still to cold/nasty weather?
JJ

Jojo, you need a second 'puter, lol. One computer in our house, among three, would cause chaos. lol

Sorry Jojo. So many people buy birds, don't know what they're in for. It's not as simple as Pet'sMart employees make it out to be. People are clueless. Apparently you know your birds, don't need my advice.
I worry about birds, in and outdoors. We even feed wildbirds. lol. A huge Hawk has been hanging around our yard. He/she is mazing. My favs are Golden Finch and Hummers..

I've seen pics of Alocasia stingrays..the woman who sent the plant is well-learned; perhaps she guessed this one. I'm leaning towards stingray.

The larger fountain was purchased from HD. 'Gift from my son.' The smaller came from a place called Collection, Inc. Collections, Inc, was local, a humongous warehouse, now they strickly sell online.

Josh, I'm 99.9% sure your plant is Alocasia Amazonica. The only other Alocasia I've seen that resembles yours has much wider, round, short foliage.

You had a real zoo, wow. Funny, a bird might harm your cat..lolol. You're joking, but you'd be surprised how agressive larger macaws can get.
I know what you mean about housing birds, but we also keep cats and dogs indoors. I feel bad for all pets. It's confusing.

Steve, I have another plant I'd like you to see..lol..I have NO idea what it is. Posted a pic on Name that Plant a couple times..ppl came up with Dracaena, Yucca. Will explain how it came to be, and include pics..

Sorry if I made it seem I didn't need your advice. Not really the case. Was trying to say, I appreciate it, but know what i'm doing. Not something you could know until it's been offered. It's very important and useful advice you've given..
I actually found homes for about 100 birds, so I could take care of all the work needed in their room and aviaries.

I know what you mean about people buying birds and being clueless.
I've worked in several pet shops and it's scary how many people think there's nothing to owning a bird.
Thanks again,
It's good info you've shared, and it's out there for others to learn.

We have Red Tailed Hawks around here. Amazing birds!

My Favorite is the Lady Gouldain Finch. I will have a pair someday! :-)

I also adore birds like the ones Al posted.. Sometimes the most simple are so beautiful!

Stingray is a really cool looking plant.

I get the catalog for Collections. ;-)

I have 3 dogs right now that sometimes think theyre cats and a 20lb cat that's convinced he's a dog. LOL!

Have a great night everyone!
And thanks for your help, and narrowing down the name. When I get a plant, I will try and remember to get back here and post a pic. :-)

JoJo

My brothers MIL got hold of the mother 25-yrs-ago. It supposedly was shipped from Poland, hence its name, Polish Plant.
In 1994/5 she gave me an unrooted cutting. It went in water, rooted, then potted in soil.
To this day, I haven't any idea what it is.

Description. New growth is white, when mature, medium to dark green. Leaf edges are jagged, similar to Pandanus.
Young plants, under 1' grows upright, when larger, a vine. Babies and air roots grow from the vine.

The mother plant is 20+' long, attached to a circular trellis. I don't understand how they managed training this monster since mature stems eventually turn woody.
My guy would be much larger, but I've given way too many shoots away.

Pictures:

Any ideas? It burns is full sun, does best in medium light. Toni

All, thanks for the photos. I've tried a bunch of times to tame wild birds and never got anywhere but I have done well with South and Central American birds. In total, we've kept more than 30 species, but often on a temporary basis while the birds were up for adoption. Some of them were very traumatized by very harsh treatment and it is very correct people need to study up on what they are getting into before they buy or accept one. Some can be very tough!

Just post good photos and always try to show both sides of the leaf so the veins can be counted and the point where the petiole inserts into the leaf blade can be clearly seen. If you can good detailed photos of the underside of the leaf so I can count the interprimary as well as see the shape of the small tertiary veins I can sometimes key them out. That is especially true of Anthurium and Philodendron since there is a great Key on The Royal Botanic Garden Kew's site, CATE Araceae. The program is called LUCID and I've taken the course four times now.

The more information the closer we can come to a good ID with the exception of hybrids. Then it is just a guessing game. In those cases I rely on LariAnn Garner kn Miami since she is the best I know at identifying hybridized plants.

Been reading all day and my eyes are about to shut down! I've been in a big discussion most of the day about a plant that is commonly sold on eBay as "Philodendron Silver Queen". It IS NOT a Philodendron and is almost certainly a Monstera but since it is sold in the juvneile stage we have been trying to identify it for years. I think we are now getting close!

Steve

PS: I often read fast and it is not uncommon for me to miss details in a post. If I do, just remind me to slow down and read it again! Identifying aroids has been fun for me for years but if you read some of the oder threads on this forum you'll find a bunch of people think I am crazy and don't know what I am doing!

They certainly may be right!

Oh yes, just remembered. Almost all Bromelia only produce a single inflorescence and then the parent dies. The offsets fond at the base of the plant then use the same hold fasts (not roots) and grow into adults. The hold fasts do not conduct moisture or nourishment, they just hold the plant in place. It does zero good to water them!

And yes, the big Billbergia in the corner of the atrium produces a bright red blooms every spring and then grows two new plants that form at the base of the old one. Once the inflorescence is spent the parent dies, I often have to give them away since they are BIG!

Harry Luther identified it for me as Billbergia pyramidalis var, concolor. He says it is not common in the wilds of northern Brazil but I don't know if that means "rare".

Now if this is filled with typos, just forgive me. I'm not drunk, just tired!

Steve

Toni, I've known enough of these birds to know how dangerous they can be! Truly!
My cats are scaredy-cats, anyhow...they'd freak out if some great big Mayan sun-god
looking bird happened to appear before them! Haha!

Al, I'd say those birds are worth, at least, two in the bush... ;)
(sorry, had to). My bird feeder is rampant these days, and I've noticed
the Grey Squirrels are out and about again, as well. I'm keeping water trays
available, and breaking the ice for the birds.


Josh

Two in the bush...LOL! Less T.V. ;-)

Yes, the big birds can be dangerous. You really need to know birds to own the parrots.

JoJo

It sickens me how chain-stores, and numerous private stores, keep their birds caged 24/7, neglects feeding and water..one bird at Petco couldn't turn without his tail hitting the cage and bars. 8 months later, the poor guy hadn't been adopted, still in the same small cage.
One day we went to Petco. One clerk convinced a couple to purchase a Blue & Gold..While he went to get paperwork, I walked up to the couple, had a little chat. Excused myself, explained I overheard their conversation. Because the clerk made caring for a macaw sound like Disneyland, I gave it to them straight. The birds needs. The clerk never mentioned birds need veggies, fruits etc, training, avian vet care, and lots of love and attention. They couple thanked me, walked out. When the clerk returned, discovered the couple gone, the look on his face was priceless. lol..Innocent Toni, shrugged her shoulders. lol.
'where did they go??' That guy literally ran around the store looking for them. Thank God, they left the store, attempting to hunt them down. Thankfully, they left.

Craigslist has tons of unwanted birds..one of many places.
I feel like crying, seeing these beautiful abused creatures.
Reporters went to one private petstore in Chicago. Either Trib or DN. They snapped pics. Roaches, filth, empty bowls, tiny cages. This store is still opened for business.
Steve, did you debate with the Ebay seller? LOLOL. Good luck. I think I know who you're talking about. If it's the same guy, he coins false plant names quite a it..he's not the only seller who does this.
One guy admitted he makes up names, by looks of a plant. lol
Some sellers get ANGRY or just don't care.

Josh, did you care for injured or parent-less birds? Is that how you got hold of wild birds? If so, you'll be rewarded.

Sorry, don't mean to offend anyone..I'm Anti-hunter. How can anyone shoot any animal..the poor deer. Afterall, they were here before us, or something that looked similar to today's deer. They survived.
There's huge forest around here. Once a year, they hunt, kill hundreds of deer.
It might be true, maybe there are too many, but there are people, mainly men, who think killing an animal is macho.
Does anyone remember the story about the buck either severly injuring or killing a man? Up north.
This may be un-Christianly, but I hurrayed the deer. An eye for an eye.

Steve, told you I made stew yesterday..Pork and Beef. It's hypocratical..the beef and pork didn't grow in a garden. I've really cut back eating meat..yuck. just thinking about it makes my stomach turn. Toni

Yes, I've raised young wild birds that were found in a nest that had crumbled.
Some babies were dead on the ground, but three were still alive. My family raised
them until they could fly, and then we set them free in the same wild area they'd been found.

I raised a baby Blue Jay, as well, and for nearly two months after it learned to fly,
it would return to hang out with the family - and pilfer scraps of food. It was great.

I've rehabilitated Mourning Doves, Blue Jays, and some unknown birds with injured wings.

I am a hunter, however, and proudly so.
Humans are animals, and we have followed game for hundreds of thousands of years.
It is our ancestral birth-right, and I consider hunting to be one of the rituals
(a re-enactment of Sacred History) that allows us to self-actualize and to realize
our status as a part of nature. I'm a conservative, and a conservationist - I believe
in the management of wild herds (including humans) for the health of the individuals.

When I see pictures of folks posing with Wild Cats or Bears at zoos and such,
I cringe. Treating wild animals as tamed creatures for entertainment is one of the
most irresponsible things we can model for the next generation. Animals are wild.
And humans "go wild" faster than any other creature. I think we need to keep that in
mind at all times.

Josh

I'm part of a hunting and fishing family.

We have a great deal of respect for it and the laws.

I see nothing wrong with hunting for food, but don't get me started on the hunting for trophies. ;-)

JoJo

I understand your problem with many pet stores and also feel most birds should be taken in from an adoption agency since they will screen and teach the owner what to expect. As for hunting, I'm not a hunter but my dad and all my uncles were as are all of my son-in-laws.

There is a long history of hunting in this country and most of it is done by people that really love nature but also understand the need to control the population in some areas. One of my son-in-laws studied this in college and wanted to work for the State of Arkansas in animal protection. He does work for the state now but in the Governor's office! I really have no idea what he does!

Steve

Though tempted, I won't comment about whether or not I think that celebrating (hurrahing) the loss of a man's life as the result of an encounter with a wild animal might be unchristainly. I think the loss of any man's life under any circumstances is a sad thing, and never cause for gladness.

One of the hunting-related disciplines I teach is hunter safety, and I spend a great deal of time trying to instill ethics and respect for the game the future hunters will pursue.

Al

Matthew 6:26 "Look at the birds of the air; they do not sow or reap or store away in barns,
and yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not much more valuable than they?"

And from John Donne's Meditation 17:

"No man is an island entire of itself; every man
is a piece of the continent, a part of the main;
if a clod be washed away by the sea, Europe
is the less, as well as if a promontory were, as
well as any manner of thy friends or of thine
own were; any man's death diminishes me,
because I am involved in mankind.
And therefore never send to know for whom
the bell tolls; it tolls for thee."


Josh

It's probable a person born and raised in a large city has a different outlook on hunting and fishing.

Indeed, hunting has been around before man. 'whomever was here first..chicken or egg?' No Taco Bell, Cracker Barrel. Animals hunted for dinner. No Purina Dino Chow in aisle 5. LOL. And there would have been many unclothed people running about.
Like Jojo, I couldn't stand seeing a deer/moose head mounted on someone's wall. Shrunk, human heads are so much more conversational. J/K'ing..Gross.

Steve, you're funny, call in the troops. lol. Hope you find someone who can ID the Polish Plant's identity. I first thought it was succulent, but it's a huge drinker and prefers medium light..It burns in full sun, including IL's spring sun..after acclimation. The original plant, 'when my brother's MIL had it,' was kept two rooms away from an east window. In other words, many, many moons of deep shade. I appreciate your help. I pretty much gave up asking/looking, but after meeting you, "Everything You Always Wanted To Know About Plants, but Afraid To Ask." lol, figured I'd inquire..Thanks, Toni

When I get stumped, and I often do, I send notes to a bunch of botanists and experts and almost always we get lucky provided it is a tropical. In this case I did a quick check and the genus is from Madagascar so it is very tropical.

Steve

My husband actually does taxidermy.

Josh,
Nice quotes. :-)

Al~Hello!
That's my favorite bird. :-)
His colors are so soft and soothing.
And some great points on the supermarket!
JoJo

That white tail buck we all like to think of as cute and cuddly will often gore and kill an unreceptive doe if he's ready and she's not yet receptive; and if his buddy buck is between him and a receptive doe he'll kill him, too. That goshawk perched in the branch of a neighboring tree would think no more of plucking and eating your cockatoo than he would the birds at the table you set for him - your bird feeders. Nature isn't the fairyland utopia so many of us view it as. One of the few things that separates man from other animals is the fact he has instituted some self-imposed limitations on nature's law of survival of the fittest. Animals recognize no such sensibility, and almost always die a violent, not a peaceful death.

Quite a measure off the OT, but judging by Josh's response, he's not minding too much. ;o)

Al

So, my Pandanus is tropical? Would you happen to know if all Pandanus are? My other Pandanus, bought at HD, Jan, 1999, 'temp 0F,' grows upright. Same thorny leaf edges, 'not a hint of white.' Now that I think about it, the green/red edged Pandanus also suffers in extreme heat and direct summer sun.

Notice the difference? Thanks for the offer, there's some Pandanus info on Google, but if I run into any problems, I know who to ask.
Please thank Mr. Miyano for me, Steve.
Wish I lived in HI. :)

Did you know there's an edible Pandanus? I've received emails from ppl who saw my Pandanus pics, asking if I knew where they could purchase the edible type, P. 'amaryllifolius.' An Asian dish. Foliage is cooked and eaten. Sorry, no recepie, lol.
Steve, thanks so much..you've been very very helpful.

Jojo, nothing wrong with hunting/fishing to eat. Killing for sport is another thing.
I know people/men who enjoy hunting for the sake of killing, w/o eating what they murdered. One is an uncle, 'by marriage,' who enjoys seeing any living being suffer. 'including his son.'
I met a woman, 'bought a bird from her,' who's husband is, imo, very sadistic. Their house if off the Fox River.
One afternoon, a buck was munching on their, weeds, whatever it is, surely not the perfect lawn..Her husband came home, saw the buck, got his rifle and shot him. He left the poor animal to suffer, watching until it died. After hearing what this man did, with her approval, I stopped talking to her. This happened 3 yrs ago. He didn't kill the deer to eat, nope, he watched it suffer until death. Left the corpse on the ground.

I believe, if an animal is injured to the point it can't be saved, the best thing is, put it out of its misery. I am pro mercy killings.

Of course, animals kill. They can be terribly vicious. Mostly out of protection of their young, dinner, and when breeding. And 'just' for sport.
It's their instinct.
That's nature. Like I said before, there aren't any wildlife stores they can shop for dinner.
There is a differece between animals doing the killing opposed to a human killing for a head to mount on their wall.
We have our own opinions. I've expressed mine. I'm not trying to convert anyone here to my way of thinking. To each his/her own. Toni

So, my Pandanus is tropical? Would you happen to know if all Pandanus are? My other Pandanus, bought at HD, Jan, 1999, 'temp 0F,' grows upright. Same thorny leaf edges, 'not a hint of white.' Now that I think about it, the green/red edged Pandanus also suffers in extreme heat and direct summer sun.

Notice the difference? Thanks for the offer, there's some Pandanus info on Google, but if I run into any problems, I know who to ask.
Please thank Mr. Miyano for me, Steve.
Wish I lived in HI. :)

Did you know there's an edible Pandanus? I've received emails from ppl who saw my Pandanus pics, asking if I knew where they could purchase the edible type, P. 'amaryllifolius.' An Asian dish. Foliage is cooked and eaten. Sorry, no recepie, lol.
Steve, thanks so much..you've been very very helpful.

Jojo, nothing wrong with hunting/fishing to eat. Killing for sport is another thing.
I know people/men who enjoy hunting for the sake of killing, w/o eating what they murdered. One is an uncle, 'by marriage,' who enjoys seeing any living being suffer. 'including his son.'
I met a woman, 'bought a bird from her,' who's husband is, imo, very sadistic. Their house if off the Fox River.
One afternoon, a buck was munching on their, weeds, whatever it is, surely not the perfect lawn..Her husband came home, saw the buck, got his rifle and shot him. He left the poor animal to suffer, watching until it died. After hearing what this man did, with her approval, I stopped talking to her. This happened 3 yrs ago. He didn't kill the deer to eat, nope, he watched it suffer until death. Left the corpse on the ground.

I believe, if an animal is injured to the point it can't be saved, the best thing is, put it out of its misery. I am pro mercy killings.

Of course, animals kill. They can be terribly vicious. Mostly out of protection of their young, dinner, and when breeding. And 'just' for sport.
It's their instinct.
That's nature. Like I said before, there aren't any wildlife stores they can shop for dinner.
There is a differece between animals doing the killing opposed to a human killing for a head to mount on their wall.
We have our own opinions. I've expressed mine. I'm not trying to convert anyone here to my way of thinking. To each his/her own. Toni

As far as I can tell there are approximately 600 species of Pandanus but I can t be certain how many may be synonyms of other plants since none of the botanical info I have on file offers that info. The genus is said to originate in Madagascar.

I once asked one of my grandsons where Madagascar was and he said "Blockbuster". Think about it!

The island is a large equatorial island off the east coast of Africa so it would all be tropical. I have found mentions of species existing in the South Pacific but I don t know if those are endemic or imported.

My knowing a bunch of the best botanists and plant experts is a result of my curiosity. Leland Miyano wrote a note to me in mid 2005 and we have been trading notes on an often daily basis ever since. He was trained by famed Brazilian artist and plant collector Roberto Burle-Marx and you should look him up Google!

He is an amazing botanical garden designer, artist aroid, palm and cycad expert and has authored several books. I finally met him in September 2007 at the International Aroid Society Show in Miami at the same time I met Julius Boos. Leland, Julius and I had traded so many emails in the previous years I could publish them into a book on plants!

Julius had no degree in anything but was once of the most incredible people I have ever known and died as a result of pancreatic cancer last August. If he read it once, he could tell you where, often including the page. Julius has a number of plant and insect species named in his honor. Look up both Leland and Julius and the internet! Amazing stories.
Leland was also featured in Martha Stewart living a year or so ago when they featured his private botanical garden. He has designed many of the best public gardens in Hawaii and is now working on a major project for one of the largest botanical gardens on the planet. You can find a number of newspaper and magazine articles about him on the net.

At about the same time I began writing to Dr. Tom Croat of the Missouri Botanical Garden and Tom has become a close personal friend. In late October he spent the night with us and I was able to pick his brain for almost two days. Tom is recognized as the top aroid botanist on the planet.

I have also been privileged to meet and spend time with many of the world s top botanists as a result of being an officer of the International Aroid Society. Last September I spent four days with Dr. Scott Mori of the New York Botanical after several years of trading the occasional note. I ve been fortunate to have many of these guys (at least 9 botanists) contribute info to my website and often rely on them for good answers when people dispute what I try to explain. If you were to go back through the last 5 years on this forum you would find my info has been disputed many times and I always shoot off a note to one of these experts for clarification.

People just don t like to find out some of their closely held horticultural beliefs are not founded in science but as I said earlier in this thread, I don t like to argue so if they want to believe all these experts are wrong, that is their option.

I check everything I write in one of over 200 books and papers that are now in PDF format on my computer. I also own a fairly large library of scientific books and often scan them into PDF format so I can research them with only a few terms to search. I normally buy about 3 books a week, some so difficult to understand I have to drag out a bunch of botanical dictionaries. And yes, I guess I am a nerd!

If I read something on this or another plant site that does not make sense in science I will spend days, sometimes weeks researching it while corresponding with the people I ve already mentioned. The point is not to prove anyone wrong but to help stop plant "rumors" before they become embedded in our brains. Read some of my posts on Spathiphyllum and Zamioculcas zamiifolia on this forum and you ll see what I mean.

If you ve read much of my website or published work you have almost certainly run across this statement:

"I am a serious plant collector so being able to understand the scientific treatment or description of a species is important. I need to know how to tell one species from another, a petiole from a stem and why a spathe is not a flower. Even though I am not a botanist I have received training courtesy of some of the world s top botanists and have learned that self-education and knowledge are the "tools" that can drive misinformation and ignorance from any human mind."

"At first, I only wanted to find the "simple stuff" which was often found on garden websites or in a consumer magazine. The problem with simple information that is not scientifically written or verified is that much of it is incorrect, especially information published on numerous garden websites. More often than not that information is composed of little more than casual observation or downright invalid ideas written by a house plant grower that knows little more than the average hobbyist has already discovered. It is extremely regrettable that this misinformation then becomes "accepted" and is repeated again and again throughout the internet."
I have included it in several articles along with my ""Much of what we believe is based on what we have yet to be taught. Listen to Mother Nature. Her advice is best."

I would like to extend an invitation to anyone on this forum to meet a bunch of these experts themselves, the third weekend of September in Miami. Pete Boyce, one of the two world s leading experts in Alocasia and species found in Malaysia and Southeast Asia will be our guest at the IAS show and sale. Tom Croat and a bunch of other experts will also be there and it would be my pleasure to introduce all of you.

Hope that helps, and I hope I didn't avoid answering anything!

Steve

It is considered proper in botany and science to credit others with their work. I began years ago to credit anyone that helps me understand something clearer either through personal email, a personal consultation, or in their published works.

About one year ago I received what i considered to be a "dagger" blow when one individual I sincerely trust on another forum said I used the names of botanists, friends and experts to try elevate myself to their level. Nothing could be farther from the truth, but I am sure some on this forum think the same thing when I quote these people.

I am not a botanist, I am not a trained scientist, but I do study this stuff all the time. I have never once even tried to imply I hold a degree in any of these subjects but anyone can learn the information if you are willing to try and read the scientific journals and texts. I just like to try as well as to share.

If any of you feel I am trying to make myself appear to be an "expert", please understand I am not. I have said many times I am not an expert! I am just trying to share the truth of science as it relates to the plants we grow. If what I write offends you, I apologize, but I cannot stop writing it..........or sharing the sources of the information.

In science it is considered very bad manners to not credit any scientist with his/her work.

Steve

First, not once, while reading any of your threads/website, did I think you were trying to be something you're not, picking names out of the blue, nor did I deem any of what you've said, boasting.

I feel you are proud of all you've accomplished throughout the years. People you've met, studying, experiencing, and doing. By doing I mean, plants you've grown successfully. No one on this planet is born with botanical or any other knowledge. It takes 'mucho' work, years of study.

As you stated, you don't have a botony degree...you've learned by study and 'beating info, j/k' from people with degrees, scientists and published authors.
Those reasons alone are great accomplishments. I could never meet, let alone introduce myself to an unknown, known. Too shy, for one. lol.

I must confess, most of your information 'regarding science and plants,' is way over my head. I'm embarrassed admitting it, but it's the truth. :)
Don't get me wrong. I understand what you're saying, Steve, but more often than not, have to check with dicionary.com or Google. Mostly botanical terms, which, thankfully are found on Google..
So your explanations aren't going to waste or being ignored..It just takes me longer than others. I hope you understand, Steve.

Second, I might have said it before, but I sincerely thank you for ID'ing my plant as Pandanus. You HAVE to know people, when you, yourself admitted, you had no idea of its type.
I have posted the Pandanus picture on different forums, including 'Name That Plant.' People have come up with, 'some type of Dracaena or Yucca.' Truthfully, I was inclined agreeing with Yucca, but never heard of a trailing Yucca. lol.

Steve, how old is your grandson? I haven't seen Madagascar, the Blockbuster movie, but my 9-yr-old niece has a copy. If that's what you mean by, 'think about it.'

Without 'cheating,' out of all the names you mentioned, the only one that rings a bell, and totally conjecture is, Roberto Burle-Marx. His name and Philodendron come to mind. Again, a guess.

Steve, going to send this, then restart. My computer is acting up..BRB with a different Subject of Posting

Have you ever heard of James Underwood Crockett? Author and host of the original Victory Gardens. You didn't know him, too, did you? LOl

It was while reading Crockett's indoor garden book, '1978' it occurred to me how far back people took interest in plants, and how plants got their names. Reading his African Violet, (Saintpaulia) section made me realize, 'X' plants were named after their founders or someone affiliated. In AV's case, Saintpaulia was named after its discoverer, Baron Walter von 'Saint Paul' who came upon AV's in 1893.
Thhe same with Clivia. Named after Lady Clive, granddaughter of Baron Robert Clive, who founded the Brittish Empire in the 18th century. Very interesting.

It's interesting material, but does knowing the history help grow a plant/s? It might, but only for those who want to learn.

Now, Let's Talk Science. :) Please don't take offense.

For the Botonist, very serious gardener, or people who have a need to learn, 'like yourself,' learning the science is indeed important.
Some terms, should be in anyone three and olders, vocabulary. Leaf, petal, root.

Steve, do you believe, a person who decides to add a plant to decorate a corner in their new appartment, runs out, buys a Philodedron, need know every scientific term known to man? Especially people who would prefer artificial but can't afford to pay higher costs..doesn't even care to know its name?

Or even, someone who enjoys plants, but their only interest is looks and how to prevent killing it.
Some come to GW or other forums, ask a question or two..is given an answer/s, then goes on their merry way, never to be heard from again.
Too technical scares some away. Or might prevent a person from buying a plant, thinking it too much work.

I worked at Rentokil Tropical Plants, and Home Depot. You wouldn't believe the number of people who thought it too much work watering! Forget repotting or fertilizing. Instead of repotting, many would walk in, with or without a pot, and ask an employee to do the job. The same people who didn't want to 'ruin' their newly manicured nails.'
When I suggest they purchase or borrow a library book about their new plants' care, so many would shrug their shoulders, or promise to do so, but 'you've got to be kidding' was written on their faces. Most refused free brochures. These people could care less about the science of soil, pH, fertilizer, sun, or watering.

My point is, although people should learn as much as possible, on any subject, a person who has a few plants or a hundred, need not know every detail or term to keep plants alive.

As long as a hobbyist is aware and practices the basics, correct light, proper watering, humidity, etc, they shouldn't come across many problems.

My friends mother grew Christmas Cactus and African Violets in non-drainage, butter containers. My God, her plants were beautiful. She kept them alive for years. Actually, until she had to be put in a nursing home. But her AV's were filled w/flowers, CC bloomed in winter. She had other plants as well, most in standard pots...didn't ferilize and lived in a semi-heated, enclosed porch, east-facing-windows. LOL.
At the time, I grew basic plants..I assumed age had something to do with having green thumb. lol. In my mind, this 'older,' older in her 30's, lol, woman could grow anything she desired.

So Steve, I hope you understand where I'm coming from. I agree, knowing is important, but not needed for the general hobbyist, of course, it wouldn't hurt either.
I believe, knowing and practicing proper procedures mandatory. I believe determining a tropical plant from a succulent from a cactus, important. And of course, like I mentioned above, proper care per plant. Many won't or don't care enough to learn simple rules. What can you do?

Steve, one talant I possess is sensing people. Although we haven't met personally, I feel you are a well-read, conservative yet open-minded, can't forget good-looking gentleman.

I hope I haven't offended you in any way, shape or form. Sure didn't mean to do such a thing.

I may not be a scientiest, but feel my plants do well, pleasing to the eye. People have rang our doorbell, praising my plants. Because of my health, I haven't kept up with outdoor gardening like I once did..but before problems arose, my dh and I would catch people, neighbors and strangers, pointing out a plant, checking out all the bulbs, perrenials and annuals in our front and side yards. They couldn't see what was out back.
BTW, I'm not bragging, please don't think bragging is my intention. It's just that plants and baking are two things I feel I do better than average.

Anyway, it's been a long day...have a doc appt tomorrow morning..and still it snow falls, sigh.

It's been wonderful talking to you, Steve..have a great night, well, you're probably asleep..lol..Toni

Excuse typos..I'm exhausted..

We dwelt with huge numbers, thousands of customers over the years.

However, the technical knowledge and the language of growing is essential, I think,
to teaching others how to successfully grow plants. That's the crucial difference.
When we understand the science and the terminology, we are better able to communicate
information and translate techniques to a range of growers, from novice to expert.

As the saying goes, Give a man a fish and he eats for a day; teach a man to fish,
and he eats for the rest of his life. Growing/gardening is the same.

Of course, as an English teacher and an etymology enthusiast, I'm a bit biased.

Another thing I'd like to mention is the concept of Misconceptions.
Misconceptions can actually impair or prevent future learning.
Take gravel layers at the bottom of pots, for example. That belief
can prevent a grower from incorporating future information about drainage
and soil/water dynamics.

Good growers are good learners in general. They observe, they compare, and they ask questions.
They are able to take risks without fear of being wrong; they adapt, and they tolerate ambiguity.


Josh

To Steve's family, friends and acquaintances,

We are sad to let you all know that our dad passed away yesterday morning around 6 am. It seems that he had a heart attack and was taken quickly. Thank you to all of you who loved and befriended our father. As most of you know our dad loved his plants. My husband sent a text to me today that said...I bet your dad is in front of God and Jesus right now negotiating the biggest Greenhouse in Heaven! I can honestly say that I wouldn't put it past him. :) It's funny how you can cry and laugh all at the same time.

The funeral will be held this Sunday in Siloam Springs, Arkansas at the Backstrom-Pyeatte Funeral Home at 2. The address is 1401 E. Main Siloam Springs, AR 72761. In lieu of flowers we know our dad would appreciate donations sent to the Missouri Botanical Gardens. He loved this place and I know that he would much rather have your gifts sent there. Please pray for our mother Janice and brother Brad at this time. They have a long road ahead. We will send the mailing address for the Missouri Botanical Gardens in a separate email tomorrow.

Thank you again for being a part of our dads life,

Kari and Stephanie (Steve's Daughter's)

I must also concur on meat sources/food sources. Americans in general, I feel, are way too far removed from their actual food sources. Most know little about commercial production, and I often wonder how many could survive without the modern conveniences of today. We have always hunted to put meat on our table, and we've always used everything we've taken. It's not a sport, but rather a method of survival, safety first, and always respectful and thankful that nature has such bounty to offer for our use.

Back to aroids...

A sad day.

Josh

I am so sorry! He has helped me with many things, especiall my very stubborn ZZ plants and because of him it is happy. Everytime I look at it I think of him.

Not only that I have been faithfully reading many of his letters, posts, links, and seen his kndness in it all.

I am also very saddened and it is a SHOCK to me.
This whole place was fortunate to have him and so were we.

As Josh put it:

A very SAD day indeed.:-(
Our hearts go out to you

I've only known Steve a short time. During that time, I could tell he was an honorable, wonderful man, and I'm sure, everyone he met, loved him as well.

He was proud of his plants, friends and accomplishements with good reason.
I am so very sorry, and will say a prayer for his wife, children, and grandchildren.

This is shocking news, and very sad.

Dellis, thank you for informing everyone. Hugs, Toni

He now enjoys the ultimate of jungles, unencumbered by earthly bounds... he walks among the beauty and bounty that we can only imagine...

My thoughts are with his family...

I'm sure he was loved by many and will be missed.

My thoughts are with his friends and family, may they be at peace.

JoJo

Next repot I am going to do a MUCH larger pot as I find the root growth to be vigorous if given the space.

I use a mixture of Napa Floor Dry, bark, granite grit, coco husk chips, and chopped sphagnum. I water every other day and never let it dry out. I fertilize every other watering at quarter strength.

Can you post a pic? Two possibilities that jump to mind are salt build-up and/or root-loss from too much moisture.

Josh

Froggy, these plants love moisture and love aeration, which makes a coarse porous mix a great choice. With fertilization, copious watering, bright light, and relative warmth, you will enjoy excellent results with these plants.

Josh