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katsrevenge42

Sad Peace Lillies

katsrevenge42
13 years ago

I've looked and searched this site but maybe I missed it.

I have two peace lilies, one a smaller size, and one of the bigger plants.

The smaller one has folded and stiff leaves. They look crinkled. The larger has an issue growing big leaves. It keeps putting out smaller sized leaves. Not all of its leaves are flat and pliable as well.

The plants are two years in my care. Both have been repotted twice. I was guilty of over potting the big lilly at first. It's now in an 8 inch pot. The little one is in a 4 inch pot. They have new soil after I gave them a good rinse to remove white build up from the roots. They've both flowered twice.

No root rot, they are watered as soon as the leaves look a bit pouty. I feed them once a month with a general houseplant food. I have tried low light, north-east window, a high light western window, sheer curtains, no sheers... bathroom, kitchen, livingroom.... I'm running out of ideas here.

Here is the big one.

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It gets good morning light here and has bloomed in this spot in the past.

This is the little one.

{{gwi:88523}}

Comments (19)

  • exoticrainforest
    13 years ago

    What kind of soil did you use? In nature Spathiphyllum species grow along stream banks often standing in water and full sun. However, the soil is extremely porous and fast draining. In a pot they love fertilizer, bright light and frequent water, but the roots must be able to poke around freely in the soil. If you use a porous soil mix (you can make it yourself) the roots won't stay in soggy soil and rot.

    I grow 8 large ones in an aquarium with fish and the produce inflorescences all the time.

    Here is a link that might be useful: Growing Spathiphyllum and mixing soil

  • katsrevenge42
    Original Author
    13 years ago

    I've got them in regular potting soil. I can mix up something similar to what I grow my cym orchid in (bark with soil, spag and gravel) I could also start giving them orchid ferts. It's a 20-20-20 stuff instead of the 5-7-6 stuff they get now.

    I don't even care if they bloom.. I just like the big green leaves.

  • gobluedjm 9/18 CA
    13 years ago

    The soil looks a bit heavy to me. I wouldn't give them any fertilizer until you get them stable.
    Based on the size of the plants and pots it just seems they should have a bigger root ball and big in bigger pots.
    I am suspecting root rot from sitting in soil too wet.

  • katsrevenge42
    Original Author
    13 years ago

    After I removed them from their pots for a repot about two weeks ago I did go over the root system because I was thinking the same thing. Root rot. All roots were white and firm. There were a few dark squishy ones, but they were small and very few. There was some salt buildup on them so just to be safe I rinsed the root ball till there was no more salt buildup.

    Then, to avoid future rot, I potted to the root ball and not to the plant size. Each plant has about two inches of root growing room in those pots.

    I water when the leaves look slightly limp.

    I was reading about peace lily 'dormancy'. Should I be letting these guys go dry at some point?

  • gobluedjm 9/18 CA
    13 years ago

    Two inches of root growing room is too much. Should be no more than one inch in between the outer edge of rootball and the inside of pot.
    I think they are still trying to recover from the dark roots that were rotting...from overwatering or staying too wet for too long.
    IMO your rootball from what you say is way too small to support the growth you have. Something is going on.
    I've never heard of dormant peace lilies. If you let them dry out completely they will go very limp and die.
    Peace lilies are somewhat fussy...meaning they show any sign of unhappiness quickly yet they recover quickly also.
    Normally when a plant is overwatered you will get yellow leaves but I see no sign of that either.
    Two weeks is not long enough time for them to recover yet.
    I wouldn't do anything drastic to them just yet...otherwise you won't know what worked and what didn't. Take one thing at a time.
    The rootball is the support system for the plant and you just examined it and rinsed it so its gonna take at least a month to recover and then show any sign of improvement.
    Since the growth is healthy it will concentrate on its roots...or should anyway...hopefully so donÂt expect to see new growth right away.
    Potting the plant to its rootball size really has nothing to do with rotting...overwatering does. You can have a plant way overpotted and still thrive if you don't overwater it and saturate the soil and keep it wet all of the time. Most plants overpotted do get root rot because of overwatering.
    I think the larger one is putting out small leaves as that is all the rootball can support.
    Those leaves should eventually get bigger.
    In a month or so I would give it a fertilizer with a higher number for roots to grow.
    Try and concentrate on getting the rootball healthy and I know that is difficult since you canÂt see it or what is really going on.

    I would never follow the above poster's advice to follow mother nature. You simply cannot mimic that environment.
    I wouldn't use peat moss or moisture control soil either.
    It will be too wet and rot. Nor would I put in gravel.

  • dellis326 (Danny)
    13 years ago

    I grow about 12-15 small ones in a tub of soil which is a mix of top soil, peat, chopped sphagnum, charcoal and shredded pine bark(the bark being about half the mix). All that bark allows space for the roots to grow and also lets air into the root zone as the soil dries.

    In medium to bright indirect light.

    The tub has no drain holes, when I water it, I flood the whole thing until there's water sitting on top of the soil mix and let it get almost dry, so maybe about once a month I water them. I usually use distilled water since this doesn't flush the soil.

    I occasionally get a dead leaf but there's usually new growth and often spathes.

    From the pictures your soil does look a bit fine and lifeless, almost silty. try to mix some bark and a little aquarium charcoal in the soil when you repot.

  • exoticrainforest
    13 years ago

    gobluedjm, every grower has his/her own methods. I never want any grower to feel I am attaching their advice but if you'll click on the link below you'll quickly see this advice does not necessarily work.

    In our artificial rain forest we often put plants in large pots with 5 or more inches between the roots and the outer wall of the pot and in a year or two the pot is over flowing with roots and begging for more room. We have tiny plants that have climbed posts in the atrium almost to the 16 foot level and now have enormous leaves up near the top of the atrium.

    Nurseries often give this advice because they are more interested in seeing leaf growth than root growth. I am more interested in seeing the complete development of the plant and the best way I've found is to follow the advice of some of the top growers in the country and be sure the roots develop first.

    The advice I offered came directly from the greenhouse manager at the Missouri Botanical Garden in St. Louis and they maintain the largest collection of aroids in the United States. Emily is a personal friend and I visit her as often as possible. A Spathiphyllum is an aroid. Emily repots plants on a regularly scheduled basis and I've watched her pot plants in larger pots in order to encourage root growth.

    Certainly, any grower is welcome to use the methodology they prefer, but the advice to use a pot only large enough for the plant does not fit the advice you will find in several major botanical gardens. I am not encouraging to change your growing methods, just consider the reasons others use the advice I offered. The soil mixture is a quote from the MOBOT growers and every great aroid grower I know uses it and an adaptation of it. Believe, me due to the post I hold with the International Aroid Society I know quite a few.

    I would certainly encourage all of you to attend our next annual meeting in Miami, FL the third weekend of September. There will be a number of talks given by expert growers in an effort to pass along good advice to the home grower. Additionally, you will see one of the larges displays of some of the most spectacularly grown aroids in the country. There is be a large section of plants for sale at very fair prices and the entire show is held inside the gardens of the Fairchild Tropical Botanic Gardens in Miami.

    Please plant to join us! There is no telling what you might learn or bring home.

    Click on the link and take a look at the first few photos of the way our plants grow.

    Again, please do not think I am trying to single anyone out, just explain where the advice I gave originated.

    Good Growing!

    Steve Lucas
    Corresponding Secretary, the International Aroid Society

    Here is a link that might be useful: The ExoticRainforest

  • gobluedjm 9/18 CA
    13 years ago

    exoticrainforest, You might want to check the TOS of Gardenweb as you may have violated them with your link which I have not and won't click on as I don't care how you grow them or how pro's grow them.
    I have a right to disagree with your advice. I didn't say it was bad...I just wouldn't do it. I don't know why you are being so defensive.
    I have offered katsrevenge practical advice that he/she can follow. I seriously doubt he/she has a rainforest or wants to create one. As I stated "simply cannot mimic that environment". The pro's can grow the way they want but it just isn't practical for the normal hobbiest. I do agree in learning the plants native habitat and try to mimic that but a rainforest in a home really is not achievable.

  • exoticrainforest
    13 years ago

    I assure you I sell nothing and have verified there is no problem with the folks at GardenWeb.

    I realize you don't want to see the info I posted but at the very top of the page it clearly says we sell nothing. We simply confer with oome of the best botanists and experts in the aroid field and post scientifically arrurate information.

    If you wish to report this post to GardenWeb please feel free to do so. I was afraid you would be offended when I offered scientific ifo that differed with the info you prefer to use which is why I tried to qualify my info.

    The International Aroid Society is a scientifically based non-profit organization based in Miami, FL. As such, it too does not violate GardenWeb's rules.

    Best wishes,

    Steve

  • bigdopeywhiteboy
    13 years ago

    Having seen the above thread, I felt compelled to reply. First issue....TOS for Garden Web....I'm a member of the Board of Governors of the International Aroid Society, mentioned above. The IAS has been a legally estblished nonprofit organization since its inception more than 3 decades ago. The Society functions solely to enhance the knowledge,enjoyment and interaction of those interested in plants, most specifically Aroids. As I saw no mention of anything offered for sale, and only a suggestion to check out the website, I fail to see any violation of the TOS of Gardenweb. Anyone interested in tropical foliage plants of any sort should consider looking into the society. I'm not a professional grower, but am an advanced hobbyist grower, and have found over the last decade that the Society members and those they know and associate with, are a group of the highest caliber, and a boundless source of information ranging from DNA sequencing for research purposes to advise for the hobby or casual grower.

  • gobluedjm 9/18 CA
    13 years ago

    Do you people not read or understand english?
    I stated "I have not and won't click on"
    which is why I stated "may have violated". I didn't say it is a violation or you did violate. There was no accusation on my part at all so why all the defense...again.

  • exoticrainforest
    13 years ago

    katsrevenge42,

    I sincerely apologize your thread has ended up the way it has. You asked for advice and you have been given several options. I often try to let growers know they have the choice of growing method they prefer and you certainly do with these plants.

    I am just a retired grower with extra time and spend most of my week researching aroids which are found in the family Araceae. Your plant is one of the most commonly grown of all aroids.

    My website is on the net free of charge. We don't sell advertising and we don't sell plants. If people find it useful I am thankful, if they wish to ignore it that costs me nothing either. We don't try to make 1 cent off the site.

    We grow a total of 8 Peace Lilies in our home using the method I recommend and one is now 20 years old. It does indeed work but so do other methods. Lots of folks try to duplicate Mother Nature.

    I wish you nothing but success.

    Steve Lucas

  • dellis326 (Danny)
    13 years ago

    I'm no expert, I don't have a rainforest or even a greenhouse. My tub'o'spathes is growing in my art studio which is in a 100 year old warehouse with lousy heating, In the winter in can get as cold as 45-50 degrees F and close to 100 in the summer. It's also dry so the humidity added from the "mud" probably helps a lot too.

    No you can't really completely mimic nature but you can come close without a lot of trouble. Why should you? Since in the wild, plants have not evolved to be root bound, they spread their roots, not bunch them up in a tight ball. Just go to any public conservatory and you won't see many plants tightly packed into small pots.

    Roots, like leaves don't live forever and a couple of dead ones doesn't mean there is a problem with rot.

    katsrevenge42, Everyone who grows anything will find what works best for them. A strong foundation is the best place to start. A good growing medium that supports, feeds and gives room to grow can make a big difference. At first the plant will slow it's growth while the roots grow and the top end will take off.

  • greenman28 NorCal 7b/8a
    13 years ago

    Key, Kats!
    I just root-pruned, separated, and re-potted a very cramped Peace Lily.
    It was becoming impossible to keep the plant turgid, and some of the leaves were paling.
    So I made a mix of Orchid Bark, Pumice, Perlite, and a small fraction of potting soil.
    I prefer Pumice to gravel, since it holds moisture, is durable, and is lighter in weight
    than gravel. I also added Osmocote to the mix, although I use a liquid fertilizer for the
    plant's primary nutrient supply.
    Good luck!

    Josh

  • bigdopeywhiteboy
    13 years ago

    Yes...'us people' manage to both read and understand English....sometimes we do both in the same day. Nothing about my posting was 'defensive' as you put it, merely descriptive. In response to an experiened growers comments in response to a plant problem, you strongly suggested that he 'may' have violated the TOS for Gardenweb.I disagreed, with good reason. He didn't....didn't 'may have', didn't anything....

  • bigdopeywhiteboy
    13 years ago

    I'll only offer a last comment, as I imagine the likely reply. The IAS website is a portal to a thriving international community of some of the world's finest botanists, hobby growers, research students and scientists, and a great source of information.Why anywould would categorically refuse an offer of additional information and the experiences of others seems curious.

  • katsrevenge42
    Original Author
    13 years ago

    Oy Vey! :/

    Anyways, thanks all for the advice everyone. :) I ended up yanking out the little one last night because it was limp, again.. but the soil was still damp on top. Apparently in that short time in that soil mix it had started to get root rot. It lost lots of little roots.

    So, I repotted with rough 50& orchid bark (fir I think), coarse snipped spag moss and a coarser soil with more perilite. I redid the big one as well. It had a bit of rot.. but not as bad as the little one. They are the same mix I used for my cym orchid (who also demands moist but airy feet. Then, I tossed both plants in the shower for a nice leaf washing. Today I have to say they look great. Generally after a repot the leaves are a bit limp and pale for a week or so and seem to give me planty dirty looks for a while. All leaves are turgid and a nice dark green on both this afternoon. Here's hoping they improve! I don't care if they flower.. I just want those big green leaves!

    I really do want these guys to thrive in the same way I want all my plants to thrive. And, I'm used to trying to mimic nature's conditions at least a little bit. I grow several kinds of orchids and as a result have attempted to replicate mirco-climes in my home with plant groupings, misting and trays, lighting, watering methods and plant potting materiel.

    I will hold off ferts for a month or so, see how they are looking then. It seems peace lilies are one of those plants everyone grows but few grow well. I'll try this method and if it doesn't work.. I'll keep trying other methods till I find a good one.

    And exoticrainforest, I've run across your site before when attempting to educate someone about those ^%&^#%&^%&^%* 'ice orchids'. I've also seen planted tanks set up like those on your site with peace lilies in the back (leaves out of the water) that did very well.

    I'm thinking the IAS is much like the AOS. Hobbyists, growers, pros and not.. all with the same goal of good plants and no matter how. I think that should be the end goal of anyone who gets this hobby stuck under the skin.

  • exoticrainforest
    13 years ago

    Please let everyone know how your plants progress.

    Steve