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purpleinopp

Vines, mature vs. juvenile transformations, epiphitic behavior

After a few years of allowing heart leaf Philodendron to climb up and be wound a couple feet up a Dracaena tree trunk, it started making much bigger leaves. Although I really wanted to continue this situation and monitor the "maturity," this pot got blown around a few times and the trunk most of the vine was growing on was damaged and lost, I had to trim a lot of the vine away to get control over this pot while repotting, so it's kind of starting over. I've been keeping it more controlled the past year, so I can leave the more mature parts during the next repot. There are still a few of the old roots that go various amounts of inches down from the vine to the soil, and many new ones are making their descent.

Most Philos are epiphiteic or hemiepiphetic, a small number are terrestrial. I'm still not sure which type heart-leaf is, and there seems to be several almost identical plants, or synonyms, not sure. So not sure which my plant is, or that the discrepancies would matter in regard to which type it is.

"Secondary hemiepiphytes don't always start their lives close to a tree. For these philodendrons, what happens is that the plant will grow with long internodes along the ground until a tree is found. They find a suitable tree by means of growing towards darker areas such as the dark shadow of a tree. This trait is called scototropism. After a tree has been found, the scototropic behavior stops and the philodendron switches to a phototropic growth habit and the internodes shorten and thicken. Usually, however, philodendrons germinate on trees." - Wiki Philodendron article.

What? Germinate? Anyone ever have HL Philo flowers? Other Philo flowers? I know they look like Caladium or peace lily flowers but have never seen one in person.

Just like Monsteras, this sentence in the Wiki entry for Monstera deliciosa, "Wild seedlings grow towards the darkest area they can find until they find a tree trunk, then start to grow up towards the light, creeping up the tree." Never had one of these, they're always expensive. How strange, plants growing AWAY from the light. Makes sense though if the mission is to find a trunk to climb. Fascinating. Anyone noticed this? I move plants way too often to notice this from Philos.

Thought I knew about Syngoniums until I read the other day how they change dramatically upon maturity, changing leaf shape AND type! Not clear if dangling would induce this, or if it needs to be supported climbing? Who has a plant like this?

Then there's Hedera helix which also is supposed to completely change leaves if it makes it to the top of a tree in the right climate. Anyone ever have a potted specimen that "changed into maturity?"

Someone posted pic of an older Pothos on a support earlier this week and I noticed now big the leaves were on it. Made me wonder if being on the support was the reason for the exceptionally big leaves. Seems like similar stuff.

I'm going to start doing more with growing this stuff UP instead of dangling down. Please share your thoughts and experiences in this realm.

Comments (152)

  • Tiffany, purpleinopp Z8b Opp, AL
    Original Author
    10 years ago

    Hey, Asleep - glad you woke up! True 'dat! I like the open-ness of this but that would be more the look most people seem to like. Philo roots will attach to this just fine. (Pics above somewhere.) What about other, similar 'junk' objects? The grates from grills/ovens/refrigerators? A dude with some tools would know how/be able to bend them... that part's not my area. I just bring the junk & describe the needed alteration. Have bird cages been mentioned here? They used to be like a freebie, but they've become expensive antiques lately. That's something I'd like to find at tha thrift store, I'd pop that tag!

  • asleep_in_the_garden
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Oh yeah bird cages would be sweet,but if I had one I just couldn't see tearing it up (not too sure if you even implied that) to make something else out of it unless it was already broken beyond repair.

    Somehow I'd see an intact one going to some other type of arrangement where vines wouldn't be in and then right back out again on their way up which is what they need to get bigger ...or so it would seem.

    Thanks for the warm wake up.
    It was a good nap. :)

  • Tiffany, purpleinopp Z8b Opp, AL
    Original Author
    10 years ago

    Are these cool pics or what?! And these, and some person I don't know's Flickr pic:
    {{gwi:89859}}

    The pot with the multiple species in the white pot in my last pic is kind of frozen in time but I did just put a pic of it in here today, if interested.

    P. 'Micans' is probably the fastest growing plant at my house at the moment. When it came inside, it really started movin'. The orange spots are an interesting feature the camera put there. Not at all that pronounced in person. It's about time to secure each of these vines into position, headed back down.

  • chloeasha
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Oh, way cool! Can you imagine having that in your living room?

  • dsws
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I went to Florida, where I got to see some epipremnum growing feral. Once it decides to go up a tree, the huge leaves and thick stem start pretty much from ground level. So my image of it needing to do some climbing before transition was wrong.

  • petrushka (7b)
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    they won't go feral unless there is a trunk to climb on and the light is very good - fl shade is much brighter then any sunny window. plus they get 85% + humidity at all times and temps in the 80s. it's been my experience that a lot of true tropicals don't grow really well until the temps hit 80s and humidity is above 85%.
    i cut off my 'larger leaves' vine and splt it into sev sections.
    it all budded and is growing, but necessarily the newer leaves are smaller, but i hope that they will enlarge with time.
    i also carefully observed 'the native vines in the ground' in fl and yucatan,mex - leaves are clearly juvie on the bottom and quickly increase in size up the trunk.
    i will make a coir totem this spring 'for active support'.

  • Tiffany, purpleinopp Z8b Opp, AL
    Original Author
    10 years ago

    Today, I think I just have questions to throw out there, to ponder, maybe spark more curiosity. I wonder how much of an effect being moved has on plants that go in/out for weather. Can they ever feel secure/comfortable enough to break free?

    Unless I'm forgetting something above or elsewhere, don't think I've ever seen a pic of an often-moved plant that's grown mature form leaves in a pot. But once in a while somebody posts one, with something like, 'what is this strange old plant sitting undisturbed forever on the exercise equipment we got 5 years ago?' So we know it can happen but those trying to make it happen sure are fussing with their plants a lot, myself absolutely included.

    It seems the one common denominator may be being undisturbed? I'm thinking I should try an unconventional approach, NOT repotting some Syngonium or Epipremnum for a much longer time than I would normally let any plant go. It's already been 18 months that some heart-leaf Philo has been in a 5-gallon bucket with metal trellis. So that's a candidate too but I have to keep hacking away at it, which causes even more growth tips when I do, so IDK. There's too much bulk/mass to just keep winding them up/down/around. Crowding may hinder maturity? No idea.

    If I do pot something with the intention of leaving it alone for years, it will be ONE vine.

    The one problem I can predict is that the soil should disappear before 3 years have passed, from decomposition and erosion. I wonder if vines pulled up just so more soil can be added at the bottom (otherwise undisturbed) would feel/notice they've been disturbed? Roots protruding from drain holes are another issue. Does cutting then off constitute disturbance - to a vine, any vine, all vines?

    Does anyone have any updates on vine experiments mentioned above?

    Hopefully some really young people will develop some curiosity and get started.

  • dsws
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I didn't get very good pictures of the epipremnum I saw in Florida. In particular, none clearly show the nearly all-or-nothing transition from little houseplant-type leaves to foot-and-a-half pinnatifid leaves.

    If you want to leave a pot alone for years, it seems as though the thing to do is use sand for most of it, and just add some organic matter on the surface, which can be replaced as it decays by sprinkling a little on top.

    My plant that's being forced to climb is continuing much as it was: still producing small leaves, but still producing root primordia on the internodes. The hanging one, likewise, is still producing small leaves and no root primordia on the internodes, only the two at each node.

  • pirate_girl
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Pardon me, but pls say what you mean by "root primordia". Thx.

    Never mind, I looked it up, thx anyway.

    This post was edited by pirate_girl on Fri, Jan 10, 14 at 15:21

  • Tiffany, purpleinopp Z8b Opp, AL
    Original Author
    10 years ago

    On/in the ground, a predominance of sand drains/dries quickly. In a pot, a predominance of sand with compost on top would soon become airless, deadly mud. I've read to not do it, then done it to see for myself, and now wouldn't do it, or read such suggestion without saying so. Tiny particles in a pot cause problems, impeding the drainage, filling all of the tiny air pockets.

    I appreciate the suggestion though. You noticed I didn't have one for a pot one doesn't intend to repot for years.

    Cool pic! I bet you had a blast seeing that.

    This is Epipremnum vine I saw in New Orleans. Itty-bitty leaves are visible at the bottom. We were able to get pretty close to this and see it well, but I couldn't understand the transition either, looking right at it. Is that how you felt looking at the FL plant?

    It kinda seems like part of it just decides, "I can get to the top of this tree" and starts the plant version of 'running' up it. Knowing what it's going to look like unfortunately (or fortunately as the case may be since it's so hard to see) won't help instigate such to happen.

  • petrushka (7b)
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    i've seen a lot of these planted in hotels in yucatan in atriums. so they are in skimpy layer of soil, trained on 2-3" diameter posts - just rough cut pieces of trunk about 5-6' high. the vines are used as ground cover and so some climb up the post - at the bottom reg size, by the time they get to 5' they are already beginning to split and are quite large - dinner plate size. light is very bright with sev hours of sun thru the glassed roof. very humid and warm - 80 to 85F year round. i took pics pretty close ...will post later. am on diff laptop now.
    also i did see pics on the net - people in south fl growing them in large pots on a patio - so outside and warm and humid most year. and they did have giant split leaves on top. can't locate the site, but will try later.

  • petrushka (7b)
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    double post

    This post was edited by petrushka on Fri, Jan 10, 14 at 18:42

  • dsws
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I was imagining very coarse sand, as large as it takes to guarantee aeration. Maybe I should say fine gravel instead.

    Specifically, here's what I'm imagining: Use a 5-gallon pot, or even larger if it's convenient. Get a thin-walled tube an inch or two in diameter and not as long as the pot is tall. (I'm imagining a rolled up sheet of newspaper, but whatever's handy.) Set it vertically in the pot. Fill it with fine sand, barely fine enough that it would stay wet and airless if you used it for the whole pot. Fill around it with coarse sand, coarse enough to have aeration but not so coarse that the fine sand all flows through the gaps. (If necessary, use two concentric tubes, with different grades of sand.) Lift the tube out, disturbing the sand as little as possible. Then fill the last couple inches with the same fine sand plus a trace of organic matter, maybe ten parts sand to one part peat-mud. Add organic matter to the top only enough to replace what's lost to decay. The idea is to have a wick that won't decay, pulling enough water out of the 10:1 sand and peat-mud so that it's aerated too. Rotted peat-mud that makes it through the fine-sand layer and into the coarse majority of the pot should wash out into the drip tray instead of sticking around as suffocating muck. This whole idea does depend on running copious amounts of water through fairly often, to rinse away any organic matter that makes it into the coarse layer.

    If even that turns into deadly mud, how about coarse sand with no organic matter at all, and just water it more often?

  • dsws
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I pulled that 10% out of nowhere, and only after I posted did I decide to check if it's reasonable. Wikipedia says that close-packing of spheres fills 74% of the space. So if the sand grains were close to round and the organic particles were small, having 10% organic matter would leave 14/24= ~58% of the space available for air and water. Air space has to be connected in order to actually let the water out and air in, so depending on the particle size and the height of the wick-sand column (which should determine the water potential immediately after initial drainage), I think something less than 10% organic matter is called for. Maybe 5%.

    The organic matter is there for ion exchange and water retention, so that the water and fertilizer hangs around long enough for the plant to use it. There is something that does that, and doesn't decay: clay. Its microscopic surface area is huge, so a little goes a long way. Of course, clay is very effective indeed at clogging a soil so it can't get air. Maybe something like 0.5% clay could be used, instead of the 5% organic matter? Then the question is how to keep the clay from washing out. My thought is to mix in the 0.5% clay suspended just enough water to completely wet the sand, and then let it dry very, very thoroughly. The diminishing water should retreat into the finest crevices where grains are in contact, pulling the clay with it. That should both help keep the clay from washing out, and help clear the larger spaces so air can get through.

  • petrushka (7b)
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    why such attachment to sand? scoria is far superior, absorbs excess water and releases it slowly. wicks well too.
    can use diff sizes: more coarse on bottom.
    not sure i understand the idea of pouring sand thru the tube. are you trying to make a draining well? in wet clay soils they use drainage pits/ditches that are deep and filled with rocks/gravel. you could use netted tube (from bag of onions?) to put inside the filler tube, then fill it up with gravel like you described: tube goes all the way to the bottom in ctr of pot. the netting holds it from migration, the gravel dries the middle and funnels water down.
    but why not just use exoticrainforest 'jungle mix' formula?
    i increase perlite to 40% for self-watering wicks. and put all tropicals in it.
    i did notice that epipremnum loves long fibre sphag - roots readily in it. i just fill the 6" pot with it and let it grow for a year, then pot up in jungle mix without disturbing the roots. AND pile some LF sphag on top as mulch.

  • dsws
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Sand, perlite, scoria, crushed granite: anything that's all rock so that it doesn't decay.

    The purpose of the tube of sand is to make a wick, to pull the excess water downward. That way the surface layers can be fairly absorbent but still stay aerated.

  • JonnieSilvs
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Are links cool? Because I think y'all might want to check these out. It's behind a paywall, but it looks like it might provide some interesting info. We've been trying to induce this in pothos in the greenhouse. It seems like the key is all in the roots, as you guys have been getting at.

    Here is a link that might be useful: Thigmomorphogenesis in Climbing... [Aroids]

  • petrushka (7b)
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    i only read the summary...
    you mean : it's all in the aerial roots? ...getting attached to the tree trunk?
    so what is the size of the pot you are using? did the leaves increase in size yet? how fast? and by how much?
    we need to know! and pics if you have any :)

    This post was edited by petrushka on Sat, Jan 11, 14 at 21:45

  • dsws
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    When my plant was growing thicker stem and larger leaves, it was sort of wedged into the corner between the pieces of lath I had it attached to. Contact may have been what made it do so.

  • petrushka (7b)
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    so i am back from miami, fl and have lots of pics of mature epipremnum - pretty clear that once it's on a tree trunk the leaves increase very fast and at about 6'-10' they start splitting already.
    also saw the vines with huge leaves trailing down and leaves decreasing just as fast - within 6' down they get small.
    they have lots of them in the trees all over miami in coral gables and in south miami near fairchild gardens and even downtown/financial area.
    on this pic you see clearly the increase within 5' off the ground.

  • petrushka (7b)
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    here's one up in the tree -very high up

  • petrushka (7b)
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    this is a pic of mature syngonium, the arrow leaves on the bottom are juvies - also at about 5-6' they break into multiples.

  • petrushka (7b)
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    these are syngonium infloresences - very mature vine, up at 12' approx. not that clear to see, but the leaves have 7 lobes and are gigantic , like a total span of 18".
    all of the above just 1 block away from brickell ave - financial/residential hi-rise area, within 10min walk from the hotel.

  • petrushka (7b)
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    and this is just a nice shot of brickell ave hi-rises from south miami ave, where those vines grow.
    i was 'epiphytic' on the 50fl for a while there...:)

  • tropicbreezent
    10 years ago

    I think it's more than just the vines being up against an object and producing aerial roots that makes the leaves grow larger. There's also got to be more sun. That's what happens naturally when the vines reach up through rainforest canopy and are exposed. Gaps in the canopy can let shafts of direct sunlight get lower, but it's in the tops that you get the largest leaves.

    This photo shows large leaves on vines at the same height as small leaves on other vines in more shade. The large leaves are 65 cms long, the small leaves adjacent them are 25 cms long. The stem on the large leafed vine is 5 cms diameter and goes up 20 metres high in the tree.

    {{gwi:89860}}

    Here a vine has grown about 2 metres up a tree stump and produced larger leaves, 40 cms long. It had a lot of sun. Once it ran out of stump it kept growing but the leaves at the end were reduced to 12 cms. Once they hang, the leaves diminish dramatically.

    {{gwi:89861}}

  • petrushka (7b)
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    here's my version of size decreasing rapidly.
    i def think that outdoor conditions of very high humidity, high temps in the 80s and very high dappled light are a must. and in home conditions can only be achieved in pots standing on lanai/patio,etc in semi-tropical conditions.
    i never put my epi on the balcony before (tight space), but this summer i'll put it out in very bright shade to see what happens.
    also i think that just stakes is not enough - it has to be bark/trunk like surface that gets moist and stays moist.
    will need to get some bark covered posts.

  • dsws
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    There's a restaurant near home that has a pair of rather impressive epipremnums. They're next to large south-facing windows, facing on a relatively open intersection, so they get more light than is typical. They also have larger pots than houseplants usually get, but not huge: maybe a little under 5 gallons. The vine winds around the pot several times before going up the wall. They're held to the wall with packing tape, of all things, not adhering on their own. The food was ok. Maybe I'll eat there again and remember to bring the camera.

  • Tiffany, purpleinopp Z8b Opp, AL
    Original Author
    10 years ago

    LOL and I hope so! I'd like to see that.

    Look at this oddity. Mature Syngonium, but it's not a big plant at all.

  • chloeasha
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Purple-- did you see the post I tagged you in on my FB wall? Glorious mature epi leaves in the Angawi house in Jeddah...

  • petrushka (7b)
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    i think the oddity is a cutting of mature syngonium, it's just barely past the juvie state - the leaves are still very much arrow like, but beginning to split.
    i took a cutting of a mature syngonium with sev multi-lobed leaves (5 lobes) - it was a branch off the main vine. i am rooting it now. am very curious if it will produce a juvie leaf when it starts growing? or will it retain a multi-split leaf? we shall see!

  • Tiffany, purpleinopp Z8b Opp, AL
    Original Author
    10 years ago

    That's what I think Petruska. Your cutting sounds cool! I've been trying to get such a piece since this discussion has been going. Occasionally someone in FL will post in NTP about their 'weedy vine' but none of them have been willing to put a piece in a box & ship to me, at my expense of course. Did you get your cutting when you were in FL?

    Juliana, saw it yesterday since you mentioned it here and I knew to go find it. "WOW" isn't quite enough of a comment for that!! Did you visit that place?

    I don't get on FB every day and have joined a bunch of plant groups. Although I have notices turned off for all of them, the posts are showing up on my home page (and notices page) in huge amounts & now I can't find the personal stuff there (the few posts that aren't just re-shared pics/jokes. I wish people would be a little more discriminating when sharing non-original things, it's like email used to be 15 years ago, just a bunch of forwards.) Anyway, I'm not sure what to do about it...? I want to see the groups when I have time, but not mixed with my actual friend stuff, and don't want to unfriend the few people who have this problem since they really are friends. If anybody reading this has any suggestions to PM to me, I'd be grateful for your efforts!

  • chloeasha
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Hey Purple! Yeah I haven't seen that in person-- KSA doesn't give out tourist visas, and so I've never been other than at the border by accident.

    Re: FB, your "home" is your feed. Your wall is if you click on your name at the top. So everything you've subscribed to and friends you receive notifications from are on your feed. If you want to see where people actually tagged you on their walls or in pics, just go to your wall. As far as people being annoying, you just go to their page and click on following to stop following them and it should take them out of your feed. Or so that's how I think they changed it.

  • petrushka (7b)
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    yep, i got my cutting in miami by the roadside. it scrambles on everything and it does look very weedy. except when it gets really big! the leaves fan out in semi-circles - i kinda like that a lot. here's what the main vine looked like on a tree - sort of strange variegation on it. usually it's just plain solid green.
    mine rooted, but no growth yet.

  • tropicbreezent
    10 years ago

    Not actually variegation, the plant is a bit sick. Unless it's just an old leaf starting senescence.

  • Tiffany, purpleinopp Z8b Opp, AL
    Original Author
    10 years ago

    Good close-up of the mature leaf. Sounds like you had a blast playing with the weeds in FL! LOL! Isn't this form the 'most mature?'

    The more I think about the plant posted that pic in NTP, (I linked here Tue, Feb 25, 14 at 11:31,) I'm more curious. I *think* its' leaves are mid-stage, between juvenile and the one Petrushka just showed in close-up? Is that person's plant the tip of a vine? Did someone climb a tree to get it? Cut it lower and pull it down?

    I may have missed this above, but how did you 'harvest' your piece, Petrushka? How high up was it? Did you climb up like Tarzan? How many could you have gotten? Can you show us a pic?

    If bought, I'm wondering how multitudes of such pieces would come to be in pots... harvesting? Propagating? Looks like it's in ground dirt too, not store-bought peat... so probably repotted by the person who posted the pic, but new enough that it looks like it hasn't changed at all since being potted as a cutting. We've all seen thousands of Syngs for sale, but a little mature cutting like that? Anyone? Not me.

    It also begs the question Petruska should be able to help answer soon (and why I've been trying to lay hands on a cutting of mature growth of Syngonium in particular.) We've been discussing how vines go from juvenile to mature, but what happens in reverse, when one starts with mature growth? Will it make new basal growth? Will it start a vine of mature leaves?

    J, TY. I thought turning notifications off for the groups would stop the posts on 'home.' It's clogging up that page making the real, personal stuff hard to find. I think you're right about that being the only way to deal with the overposting-people though. I can't spend so much time scrolling through all that stuff just in case they do post something personal, and have never found a setting to block 'shares.'

    Thought I put a pic of this Syngonium we saw in New Orleans last April but I can't find it here. Might as well include with this post.

  • petrushka (7b)
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    purple,this last pic IS the syngonium vine :). mostly triple leaves, and some 5ers on top. i copied and re-cropped for close-up. on the bottom you can see a single arrow and triples.

  • petrushka (7b)
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    nope, i didn't have to climb - i broke off the branching tip with aerial roots off the main wooded trunk. it was about 3' off the ground. the vine does brunch often, but if you want a really huge multiple, they are on top 8-10' - so need a ladder for that!
    here's another shot of how quickly the leaves change on the same vine: arrowhead folds at the tips and flares out, then a triple leaf forms. then it starts flaring on the 2 side leaves,etc.
    this is just at eye level: 3-5 feet off the ground, that white chunk of stone? on the bottom is at the roots.

  • chloeasha
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    P- yeah, I wish I could block shares! Now they have made it impossible to even block specific posts for eternity. keep popping back up each time I leave the feed. Ugh.

  • petrushka (7b)
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    so here's my cutting - the vine piece is burried, it's about 5" piece with 8 leaves.
    this mottling looks unhealthy to me too, we'll see what happens when i give it some nutes - if it goes away or not.
    so long as it is not some virus...i'm ok.
    the whole plant does look quite weedy to me, but, hey, it's a curiosity for the time being.
    the largest most recent leaf is about 7" by 8" wide, they seem to get bigger towards the top. all my leaves have 5 lobes and some have a beginning of 2 more: 2 little 'horns' on ends.

  • chloeasha
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Petrushka-- awesome! And yeah it looks a bit like iron deficiency or something, I see what you mean.

  • petrushka (7b)
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    i looked more at purple's pic and at mine: they are both syngoniums, but the split leaves look sort of different: purple's lobes sort of burst from the middle, while the plants that i've posted above in various pics def have this semi-circle arced effect, stretched sideways sort of.
    on some other pics of mine i can make out may be up to 9 lobes on the very top. they remind me of manta rays :) with those 2 little leaflets at the edge.
    i'd be curious to see 'mature leaves' on those variegated syngoniums that they sell. i read that variegation diminishes, but they don't loose it totally, do they?

  • petrushka (7b)
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    saw this on ebay - the seller says if you want large leaves it has to go into 5 gal pot, when fills the pot, increase the size:). the rest as was discussed: pole, very good light, warmth.
    pics 1-3 are not for sale, but still they say you'll get 11"x14" largest leaf. not bad, but pricey.

    Here is a link that might be useful: huge epi for sale

    This post was edited by petrushka on Sat, Mar 8, 14 at 18:00

  • dsws
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I wonder how much epipremnum needs to send its roots deep, versus how much the roots need to spread horizontally, in order to have the leaves and stems get big.

  • tropicbreezent
    10 years ago

    I think that Ebay seller is selling more hyperbole than plant. If you can't create the right conditions for the plant then you'll end up with small plant leaves regardless of paying that price for his "rare, giant, Hawaiian". It's the conditions on the island that made them grow like weeds since they were first planted there, not a varietal difference. You need to replicate the conditions if you want the same results.

  • petrushka (7b)
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    agreed. but at least IF you have the conditions, you don't have to start from scratch.
    i clipped my supervine with largest leaves (only 5"x6", but all leaves on it are much larger then on other vines) - it grew last summer from 1' to 6' in 6" pot!
    curious that it started wooding up. for now sev young leaves (newly developed shoots) are reg size, but i still hope that they will increase by fall. somehow on this vine older leaves continue to grow and increase in size too!
    i will repot sev large leaved vines into a bigger pot in summer.

  • pagrdnr
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I am glad I found this thread. I love all the pics. I have been wanting to try to get a pothos or philo to climb for a while. I finally gathered the supplies. My plan for the climbing pole is to use a dowel rod, surrounded by oasis foam just a little bigger diameter than the dowel rod, surrounded by a layer of sphagnum moss, surrounded by coco fiber basket liner. Think this will work/stay moist?
    I also have some cuttings rooting to plant outside this summer to see if I can get a vine to climb a tree.

  • petrushka (7b)
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    well, we are almost to the max posts, so i wanted to update on my mature syngonium progress.
    i have 2 new leaves of 'mature form' AND also some variegation near veins - that's totally unexpected!
    so i have 5 leaves and 2 little 'horns' at the ends, just like other mature leaves.
    when i took the cutting, the last very young leaf got mangled in xfer , so i cut it off, but left the stalk (where the new leaf develops) - so the 1st leaf was def formed BEFORE i took the cutting. now the 2nd? i am not sure - may be it was already formed inside there too?
    so i'll have to wait for a few more to be sure.
    but so far i am happy - i fed it well, so new leaves are dark green, the older leaves are slowly decaying one by one. but that's normal.
    now the big question is - when do i trim the vine?
    i think i'll grow may be 10 leaves , so i can trim it and root again and then see what will come out.
    and then of course i am afraid that after the trim the young immature leaves start popping.
    but that will be end of summer, not sooner.
    so, the leaves on the left are new. they have a little hard time unfurling, so they some spots and tears.
    they are folded in a very interesting 'origami' fashion. next time i'll take pics as they unfold to show you.

  • petrushka (7b)
    9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    here's a close up of the leaf for detail of variegation.

  • Tiffany, purpleinopp Z8b Opp, AL
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    Thanks, Houzz, for restoring this discussion to its' original condition.

    The discussion continues here:

    http://forums2.gardenweb.com/discussions/1469492/follow-up-vines-mature-vs-juvenile-transformations-epi-behavi?n=18

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    Leader
    5 years ago

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