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Tradescantia navicularis

Posted by purpleinopp 8b AL (My Page) on
Mon, Jun 13, 11 at 14:36

Does anyone have one? Do they behave like other tradescantias? A friend gave me 2 cuttings, which I stuck in a pot in mostly shade with other T. cuttings.


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RE: Tradescantia navicularis

Purple.. tradescantia navicularis is a succulent. What color are its leaves?
Needs bright light, well-draining soil, and goes dormant in winter.
Like other Tradescantias, when light is low or during winter months, it can grow spindly, especially when mature.

It's a good idea to take cuttings; after they root place with the mom plant.
Very nice, plant..Toni


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RE: Tradescantia navicularis

  • Posted by mfyss w. Ill. (My Page) on
    Tue, Jun 14, 11 at 10:14

Now called Callisia navicularis, it has very thickened leaves, and a flower like a weedy Tradescantia. Roots readily and can be weedy if given sun and water. Yale

Here is a link that might be useful: C. navicularis


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RE: Tradescantia navicularis

I was giving my cuttings some time to do something so I could have something to talk about.

Toni, thanks for the info. Are all tropical T.'s succulents? What about the ordinary spiderworts?

When I got the cuttings, they were a very light green, almost chartreuse. The mama plant lives in a screened porch with little direct light, very spindly indeed. I was afraid my cuttings would sunburn but knew they needed more light and am glad I put them where I did. The leaves are turning a beautiful shade of purple, and new leaves are appearing.

I've always loved every T. I've encountered and this one is no exception. I've had this one on my spreadsheet for a while but never thought I'd get a piece of one. If my cuttings keep doing so well, I'll be very happy.

mfyss, nice picture! Love the color of your leaves. I'm a more than a little curious how this plant became weedy for you. I didn't find any source that said it was any more hardy than zone 10. What other kinds of tradescantias do you have that are weedy?

Are all T's now callisia? Just some? I couldn't find any reliable authority stating that this plant had been renamed, but many indicating Tradescantia navicularis is synonymous to Callisia navicularis. If this is a full-fledge renaming, it's slow to take effect. I recently did an exhaustive search to expand my spreadsheet of Tradescantias and similar plants (by growth habit and appearance, not genetics.) Callisia is one of the genus I researched and the only candidate that made my list was C. repens which I already have.

I would like have a more general discussion about binomial nomenclature in another thread by that name. Please join me - anyone who has something to say. More comments about T. or C. navicularis are welcome below!


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RE: Tradescantia navicularis

Hey Purple.

Whenever I hear, Tradescantia, I think tropical. Tradescantias, like Wandering Jew, Moses in the Cradle, and Oyster Plants, etc, are known as evergreen perrenials; though each come from different countries. From North to South America.

I just read Tradescantias have about 50 species, a number of species are cultivated as succulents.
The family is Commelinaceae.
It gets more complicated. Many species have a synonymous name. lol..Way too complicated for my brain.

You asked about Spiderwort...which do you mean? Virginiana/Virginia Spiderwort or Siderasis fuscata/Brown Spiderwort?

Funny you should mention Spiderwort. I have Siderasis/Spiderwort. An online friend gave it to me. Only once did I see this plant for sale, locally. It was potted in a 6" pot and blooming.

Other than add a little soil on top, it's been in the same 4" plastic pot since the 90's. I Googled, but can't find info on soil type, fertilizer, etc.
Do you have Siderasis?

Your T. navicularis orinates from Peru, but I can't find which region. Maybe someone else knows.

No, all T's aren't Callisias, but Callisia is in the Commelinacae family. lol..Toni


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RE: Tradescantia navicularis

I have no idea which kinds I used to have in my yard in OH. And it seems that several of them are possibilities for the one that grows like a wild weed here in southern AL. Some look so similar and I don't have the technical training to determine the differences. They do seem like succulents, though. If you mow them, they're full of oozing clear sap. I'm also curious if these spiderworts in the yard need a dormant period or if one could dig them up if one wanted a grassy-looking houseplant. The yard is so full of them, I don't feel that urge but sure am curious.

I've been trying to compile a list of all Tradescantias for a while. Here's my list of the 45 T.'s I've found.
* indicates that it looks like a houseplant to me, the others are grassy spiderworts, or just not attractive, IMO.

*Tradescantia albiflora Kunth
Tradescantia anomola
Tradescantia boliviana - Bolivian spiderwort
Tradescantia bracteata Small-Bracted Spiderwort
Tradescantia brevifolia
Tradescantia buckleyi - Buckley's spiderwort
Tradescantia cordifolia
Tradescantia crassifolia Cav. - Leatherleaf Spiderwort
Tradescantia crassula Link & Otto - Succulent Spiderwort
Tradescantia diuretica
Tradescantia edwarsiana
Tradescantia ernestiana
*Tradescantia fluminensis Vell. - Small-leaf Spiderwort
*Tradescantia geniculata - Tahitian bridal veil AKA Gibasis geniculata
Tradescantia gigantea Rose - Giant Spiderwort
Tradescantia hirsuticaulis Small - Hairystem Spiderwort
Tradescantia hirsutiflora Bush - Hairyflower Spiderwort
Tradescantia humilis Rose - Texas Spiderwort
Tradescantia iridescens
Tradescantia leiandra Torr. - Canyon Spiderwort
Tradescantia longipes E.S.Anderson & Woodson - Wild Crocus
Tradescantia micrantha - littleflower roseling
Tradescantia monandra - cojite morado
*Tradescantia navicularis
Tradescantia occidentalis (Britton) Smyth - Prairie Spiderwort
Tradescantia ohiensis Raf. - Ohio Spiderwort
Tradescantia ozarkana E.S.Anderson & Woodson - Ozark Spiderwort
*Tradescantia pallida - Purple Queen/purple heart AKA Setcreasea pallida
Tradescantia paludosa E.S.Anderson & Woodson - Confederate Spiderwort
Tradescantia pedicellata Celarier - Edwards Plateau Spiderwort
Tradescantia pinetorum Greene - Pinewoods Spiderwort
Tradescantia reverchonii Bush - Reverchon's Spiderwort
Tradescantia rosea - roseling
Tradescantia roseolens Small - Longleaf Spiderwort
Tradescantia serrulata - pink trinity
Tradescantia sillamontana
Tradescantia spathacea Sw. - Boatlily, Oyster Plant
Tradescantia subacaulis Bush - Stemless Spiderwort
Tradescantia subaspera Ker Gawl. - Zigzag Spiderwort
Tradescantia tepoxtlana
Tradescantia tharpii E.S.Anderson & Woodson - Tharp's Spiderwort
Tradescantia virginiana L. - Virginia Spiderwort
Tradescantia wrightii Rose & Bush - Wright's Spiderwort
*Tradescantia zanonia (L.) Sw. - Cojite Blanco
*Tradescantia zebrina Heynh. ex Bosse - Inchplant Spiderwort

I find the commelinacae family fascinating and have started expanding my search to include other genus in it. Here are other Tradescantia-type plants from this family that I would like to have as houseplants:

Callisia repens (recently acquired)
Geogenanthus - seersucker plant
Siderasis fuscata - brown spiderwort
Tinantia pringlei - speckled or spotted wandering jew
Tinantia leiocalyx

You can see Siderasis fuscata made my list. Comes from Brazil, from what I can tell. A great looking plant! I do wish I had one - or 10! LOL!

I also used to have a blue-flowered commelina dayflower that was kind of weedy when I lived in OH but I loved its' beautiful little flowers and never felt it was difficult enough to remove to consider it a weed.

Are we having fun yet?


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RE: Tradescantia navicularis

Purple...LOL. I sure hope you copied and pasted the different Tradescantias..lol..

I've never seen or heard of a grassy Spiderwort.

Purple, this isn't a great picture, but maybe you're familiar with this hardy, z5 Spiderwort. Got it at HD about 10-yrs-ago..It needs a ton of water..does best when drenched.
Its leaves are spotted; flowers small and purple.

Spiderwort4-11

The pic was taken in April, before I started working in the garden, so excuse the weeds..big, old Dandy trying to take over. lol

Here's a pic of my Spiderwort, grown indoors. Siderasis fuscata.

spiderwort

Leatherleaf Spiderwort sounds pretty..wonder if it's hardy to z5?

Purple, living in AL, do you find there are a lot more hardier plants you can grow outdoors, opposed to Ohio?

I love AL. We were there once..what a difference! The air was clean and sweet-smelling. People, super friendly. I wanted to stay longer, but we were staying near the border between GA and AL, so had to get back..Son was in FT. Benning, GA, Boot Camp. 'army.'

Where did you find so many Tradescantias? Are you planning on getting one of each? lol.

Was your Commelina Dayflower a true blue or purple??? Some people call purple flowers, blue..There are very few true blue flowers.

If Siderasis could be rooted from leaf cuttings, I'd send you a couple, but they're propagated by divisions. Sorry. Toni


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RE: Tradescantia navicularis

LOL yeah, I copy/pasted that list from an excel spreadsheet. Most of the list I started by visiting Wikipedia, and some I added by finding them looking at pictures. Since the grassy ones (not indicated with *) pretty much look alike except their flower color, and my yard is full of ones I think are pretty, I don't see myself making any efforts to collect the non-houseplant ones.

I'm sure you've seen the grass-type spiderworts. I know T. ohiensis is a zone 5 plant. My yard is full of some kind of Tradescantia, probably virginiana, with purple to blue flowers, depending on the individual plant. I mow around clumps of them and I know it's probably caused some talk at the gas station across the street.

I've only been in AL for 4 years, so I'd have a hard time saying you can grow more here or in OH. It seems like there are so many "missing" plants here but I figure that's because I'm not familiar with too terribly many of the southern plants yet. But the "weeds" here blow me away! In addition to the beautiful blue spiderwort everywhere, there are also morning glories (pink and purple), cute little pink oxalis, verbena, wisteria, elephant ears and many other plants growing wild here that are considered weeds. But there's no joe pye, ironweed, chicory, orange ditch lilies... It's probably an even trade.

The plant in your top picture may be Pulmonaria officinalis - and a great looking one! That's one of the plants that didn't survive a move from OH to AL, although surprisingly quite a few did. I was worried about provenance but we moved several differnt roses, hostas, callicarpa, hibiscus syriacus, variegated vinca minor, buddleia davidii, redbud tree, creeping phlox, and probably a few others with success. Iberis and pieris were 2 others I can recall that didn't live through the change.

As far as sweet air, that depends on how far downwind of a chicken house you are! But aside from that, yeah, it really is.

The dayflower that showed up in my yard in OH was as blue as they come. It was a Commelina communis. A very blue 2-petaled flower. The plant structure and growth habit were just like Tradescantia zebrina but the leaves were plain green and a bit smaller. I can't remember if it was perennial or reseeding, or both. It was vigorous but easy to remove permanently with the first pull if not wanted.

How thoughtful to even mention offering a cutting of your siderasis. Looking at your picture is good enough. In a perfect world, all plants would propagate by cuttings!


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RE: Tradescantia navicularis pics

Here are 4 pics of my cutting. Just click the little gray arrow button above the pic to go to the next pic.

When I got it, it was a very light green and it has developed the purple color since being placed in this pot which gets some morning sun, and brief bits of sun after noon. All of the new leaves are so close on the stem they are touching each other.

Is it too soon to confirm my ID of this? Although I feel like I've researched T's extensively, I would like to see if anyone disagrees.


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RE: Tradescantia navicularis

Hey Purple,

I believe the pix you posted are of a Callisia, maybe Callisia fragrans. It's not succulent & from when I grew it, I seem to recall it was a fairly thirsty plant.

I grow indoors only & seem to recall that mine colored up w/ that burgundy/maroon color as it got more light. If memory serves, it grows a stolon (stem-like thing) w/ a plantlet on its end.

Nice plant, but got too sprawling in my bathroom window, I gave mine away.


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RE: Tradescantia navicularis

PG, thanks for the suggestion. My plant looks similar to google images of Callisia fragrans, but none of the images I found looked exactly like my cutting or the mama plant. I found some pics of C. fragrans with spikes of white flowers that look like sansevieria flowers. If the smell is similar, I hope you are right (and my plant makes a flower!)

What got me thinking it was T. navicularis was the sticky clear sap, celery-like snap to break off this cutting, and this website and their pic of one in not enough light. Those pics look exactly like the mama plant this cutting came from. But websites are always right, right? LOL!

Maybe it will make a flower and end the mystery.


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RE: Tradescantia navicularis

Howdy...This is the 4th time I tried posting, 'different days' without something going wrong. lol

I agree with Karen. Your plant is Callisia fragrans/Basket Plant. Mine is 8-9 yrs old, looks identical to yours. I'll snap a pic later; we can compare.

Purple, does yours produce long, say 4' off-shoots? Similar to a Spider plant.
When grown in full sun, the leaves have a 'purple' hue. In winter, they revert to green, but that's IL for you.

I looked at some of your pics, 'website.' You have a nice, big yard.
Your Fig is amazing. Is it in a container or ground? How do you eat the figs? With or without skin?

Soon, I'll view all your pics, but I've got so much to do now that the storms ended. The sun is shining after two days of severe T-storms and very strong winds.
Monday, my yard looked like a war zone. Plants, chairs, one table and plant ornaments were upturned, lying horizontally. What a mess!

You mention AL weeds. I don't know most weeds by name, but the last 4-5 yrs, plants considered annuals are now perrenials, including Morning Glory and Petunias. Wisteria is growing alongside the garage.

There is a vine weed, 'terrible,' related to MG. Its roots are so deep, I learned, the main root grown underneath the earth, can start as far as 5-6 houses away. The more you cut, the thicker the weed. lol. Maybe they're called Bindweed, but not sure. Their flowers resemble MG's. They climb around plants, strangling them.

How long did it take for the plants you moved to look good? Did they wilt at first?

Between OH and AL, I'd put my money on AL's weeds being semi-tropicals. The climate is too perfect.

Nope, never seen grassy Spiderwort. In fact, the last three weeks, 'excluding storm days,' I've been walking my little dog around the neighborhood..Everyone has the same, old plants. We walked different directions, even the start of a neighboring burb. A few people had perrenials I couldn't ID, but the majority has similar plants. Boring!

Since you're in southern AL, there are probably a great number of plants people in colder zones keep as house plants. Toni


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RE: Tradescantia navicularis

Oh I'm starting to get more excited about this cutting and now another voice saying it's a Callisia. The off-shoot you described is how I got this cutting. There were 2 but I gave 1 away in another mixed basket as a present. Maybe it will stay purple here in a south window for the winter.

I agree with you about this yard, and glad you enjoyed the pics. There's a few from previous homes I uploaded to post in a thread about color combos. Wow I had a lot more money and time then... sigh... And I used to have an actual website with narration, kind of a blog before the word was ever invented. I'd like to start a new one but am afraid I'd spend too much time on it and not work enough.

I'm trying to buy this place since I've been renting it for 4 years. If that works out, there will be a lot less grass in this yard. I have no idea what the actual size is, but mowing just the back takes 2 hours. (One good thing about drought conditions is that I've only mowed 3 times this year.) I got my gardening fix in my Mom's yard the first couple years I was here but started working from home last year and couldn't resist any longer, started ripping up "my" grass!

I have definitely developed a serious love for the figs. I swear they are especially sweet this year. We eat a lot of them right off the tree, they are incredible when warm. You just grab the little stem and tear it down 1 side and kind of stick your front teeth in and scoop out the insides. The skins are OK to eat but don't have any flavor. I've also made some really good spreadable fruit with them - about 8 cups after puree'ing with a little water, simmer with 1/2 cup of sugar and thicken with a bit (1 Tbs.) of cornstarch at the end. And a really delicious sauce for pork or chicken with figs, onion, roasted garlic, balsmic vinegar, honey.

My Mom had some of that morning glory/bindweed/buckwheat stuff. I feel sorry for you! Have you tried burying shoots in cans of chems? That's 1 weed I would break my no-chems rule for when used in that way.

I moved a bunch of plants at the beginning of June when it was over 100 every day for a few weeks. The tomatoes were the worst looking but within a week, you couldn't tell anything had happened unless you noticed a few missing leaves I cut off to reduce transpiration. The plants took it better than I did I think!

Yes, the climate is so different here, I've been enjoying the weeds and most of the common plants here are novelties to me. And, as you mentioned, growing "house plants" in the ground is wild. Spider plants, elephant ears, cannas, gardenia, palms, amaryllis, T. pallida, asparagus fern, wax begonias, and others that escape me at the moment are all outside perennials here. Learned the hard way that a rubber tree won't survive in my shed but my Mom puts her pots of Pothos near a wall and covers them with a sheet. Her house is brick. Most of them are still alive and go back to their hanging positions in her yard in the spring.


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RE: Tradescantia navicularis

Purpleinopp,

I too am a Tradescantia (and plants of a similar look and cultivation) admirer. I came across this forum while trying to ID a couple of plants I have, both of which were called 'Bolivian Jew'. One's far more compact than the other, with more rounded leaves, shorter internodes, and can handle much more light. It sure is difficult to ID these plants when they have a bazillion different names for the same thing!

I live in East Texas, and we have the blue two-petaled 'dayflower' (Commelina Communis) that you described growing wild here. Having just recently moved out here, I hadn't seen that kind before, and snagged some up to cultivate it.
We also have some of the 'grassy' Tradescantia here... constantly being ripped from the daylily and iris beds... certainly to no avail... you'd almost think it was crabgrass, it's so persistent. If it wasn't so leggy and sprawling it'd get left in the mix. Perhaps I'll dedicate it a little area, and see if it'll not be so unruly.

I have 3 large varieties of 'jew' (T. Pallida). The common 'purple heart', a lighter blue-green variety, and a darker blue-green variety. They all bloom magenta-pinkish, and have the same growth habits, size and form. And, all three of them handle the Texas heat well, even in full sun. The lighter blue-green kind gets purple margins in full sun, and grows very upright and compact. I can't recall where I obtained the lighter blue-green big "Jew", but I can say I have never seen it for sale, or for trade... in person, or online.

Of the smaller 'Jews', I have:
T. Zebrina (common silver/purple variegated),
T. Sillamontana (Fuzzy Jew),
T. Fluminensis Variegata (green and white),
T. Minima ? ("Baby Jew" - All green, front and back of leaves and green stems too),
T. Albiflora? (veriegated, blooms white),
Another kind of Zebrina? that is dark purple like the "purple heart", but still has the variegation markings akin to the common T. Zebrina, but no silver,
T. Andersoniana Group - "Blushing Bride",
Callisia Repens ? (Looks just like the "Baby Jew" only it has darker stems, purpleish backside, long internodes)
Callisia Repens (2) ? ("turtle vine", rounder leaves, more compact, but colored the same as the other).
T. Geniculata - "Bridal Veil"

Please forgive that I'm shaky on some of the names of these... In total I have 15 types of "Jew" right now.

I am 100% certain on Commelina Communis though, and would be more than happy to send you some cuttings... especially for trade for some T. Navicularis... I've not run into that one yet.

I can take cuttings off any kind I have, except for "blushing bride" which I'm trying to farm out to cover quite a large area,so I have none to spare at the moment... and the one I'm calling T. Albiflora (for now) it's having major issues and is near dead, for reasons I can't determine... I even tried bringing some cuttings of it inside under grow-lux bulbs... and it's just withering unexplainanbly. This really bugs me, because I've never had any sort of jew that didn't grow like crazy for me.

If you have any suggestions on how I might rescue my poor T. Albiflora, or would like to exchange photos of varieties... and perhaps even trade some clippings... feel free to contact me!

Moonkitty9909


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RE: Tradescantia navicularis

Moonkitty, if you start a new discussion with a pic of your plants, people will tell you what they think they are. I would love to see pics of all of your plants! Sounds like an awesome collection. It looks like you just registered, so welcome to the discussions! If you have any questions about sharing pics on these forums or other forum facilities, you're welcome to send me an email or ask right here.

It sure is difficult to ID these plants when they have a bazillion different names for the same thing! You ain't kiddin! Feel free to add your thoughts about this in the discussion on this forum called binomial nomenclature.

Sorry to hear your T. albiflora (for now - LOL!) is not doing right. Wilting cuttings sounds weird. I never even remove any leaves when I take cuttings of T.'s. Assuming you have a/c, so if it was heat stress, they should have perked up inside. The only other thing I can think to try would be very low light. Could something have gotten into the soil of the mama plant to poison it?

I would love to trade some cuttings! I can't imagine them not baking to death if done right now, though. What are your thoughts about doing something when it gets cooler, like Oct/Nov?

I need to point out, in case you didn't read this whole discussion, my plant has been identified by me as T. navicularis, but this has been questioned by 2 people who have very educated opinions. If you saw the pics I put in this discussion on Monday, July 11, then this is a moot point if you just like what you saw regardless of the questionable identification by me. The next time I visit the mama plant, er, I mean my BF's Mom, I'll take a pic of the mature plant from which my cutting came. When/if you'd still like to trade later, I'm sure I can get more nice-sized shoots from the mama. Mine doesn't look like it's growing fast enough to produce a cutting that soon.


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RE: Tradescantia navicularis

Hey Purple..What happened to your pics? lol

If you decide to buy the house and land, there's so much you can do.
I'm not into grass, so 3-4 yrs after buying our home, I started digging grass. It's a real pain, lots of work, but worth it in the end.

You can have plant various gardens. One for veggies, figs, flowering and foliage plants.

Less grass to mow..lol

Heck, you can even build a green house for non-hardy plants. Better yet, if you have the funds, time and energy, build a solarium attached to your home. A solarium is one of my dreams.
Imagine waking in the morning, and entering your bright, fragrant solarium??? If large enough, add wicker furniture, chairs/table, to relax.

Sit back, on a warm,, sunny day, with a large glass of Sweet Tea and a good book. Sounds wonderful. lol.

If ever I win the lottery. lol

I've never tasted a fresh fig, but it sounds good. There's an alleged, hardy fig that grows in z5, but I wonder if the fruit are tasty. And if it's truly hardy.

The only figs I have are Ficus, as house plants. In autum, some grow baby figs, but because they're fertilized with chemical fertilizers, I won't eat them.

Morning Glory and Bindweed are two different plants, although I believe they're related.
In past years, MG were not hardy here in IL. Now, they come back every spring. I never knew MG was invasive here.
The last 15 yrs, I've sown MG from seed, where it climbed up a light pole. But I had to buy fresh seed. For some reason it pops up everywhere.

Bindweed, is as its name..a weed that binds..lol. A pain in the arse. lol.
We've have major T=storms recently. Last night I stepped outside, and found new Bindweed popping up in different locations. As soon as the dirt dries some, it needs pluckiing.
Purple, other than fertilizer, I don't use chemmicals. There are times I feel like running to HD and buying a poison that kills weeds, but decide not to do so in the end. Besides, pulling weeds is great, 'free' exorcise, a way to get needed sun, and I don't have to worry about my dogs eating harmful chemicals.
Our older dog, 12.5 years, has become infatuated with weeds. Every night he's walked, and helps himself to people's weeds..lol..this is something new. Because of his age, I feel he doesn't know what he's doing these days. This breed lives about 7-9 years. Too bad he doesn't like Bindweed, ya know? lol. Same me a lot of work.

May I ask why you put your Rubber Tree in the shed? lol. Unless it's aired and has windows, that poor plant won't survive the heat and dark. You'd be better off summering outside, then bringing indoors during winter months.
I doubt they're hardy to AL's zone. Toni


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RE: Tradescantia navicularis

Toni, if you mean pics of the "mama," I haven't paid it another visit yet since I said that.

I know what you mean about digging up grass to plant flowers and veggies! Everywhere I go, I do that. Here is one place I lived. Then I moved and did this to the front and this to the back. All of those areas were nothing but grass when I started. Those were in OH. This year (in AL), I've added and am still working on the shape of this in the front and this is the back of it. And I added this veggie patch. Those were all grass, too. Over the past few years, we've turned most of my Mom's front yard into a flower bed, and added a nice area in the back by her swing.

LOL that your thoughts about winning the lottery are all about gardening, as are mine!

If you ever visit the south during fig season, I hope you try some. They are wonderful!

That poor rubber tree was about 5 ft. tall above its' huge pot, and was so big and heavy I could barely move it. It was full of ants and I didn't have a tub big enough to soak it to chase the ants out. My "shed" is really an unheated room at the back of the house with a glass door. You're right, that sounded awful, but I thought it might stay above freezing in there. I'd had the rubber tree about 8 or 9 years and felt bad about that. I actually mourned its' loss a bit, grieving "lite" if you know what I mean. If it had lived through that sudden cold spell until the weekend, I would have had some daylight to unpot it & rinse the roots. This year I repotted my Dracaena marginata to that same pot. It's somewhere around 30 years old and my gramma gave it to me about 15 years ago. It had to have a pot that big because it (and all of my "house plants") go outside as soon as it gets warm enough. This tree kept getting blown over in its' smaller pot. But this year I have a big, strong helper, and am also working from home so I know that heavy pot will find a way back inside this winter. This is one tough tree, btw. My son broke the main stem once and I taped it with clear box tape (which I removed later.) Now, about 4 years later, you can't even tell where that spot is. I'm much more emotionally attached to this tree than I was the rubber plant.

I know morning glory and bindweed are different BUT bindweed is smart and opportunistic and KNOWS it can hide amongst MG's. Before my Mom moved to AL, we planted several different MG seeds one year. When they "came back" the next year, we were thrilled and I went all-out, getting out a ladder and hammering little nails all up the side of the house onto which I made "lattice" out of the strongest fishing line available. The "MG's" grew and grew, to the top of the house, then finally started "flowering." Clusters of barely noticeable, tiny green flowers. OMG! We had the most well-displayed and coddled weed for miles around. The bindweed KNEW it would be disguised and mistaken for MG's and by the time we realized we didn't want this vine at her house, it had spread all over the yard and into the neighbor's yards. We tried for years but never could get rid of it, or even pull and dig it out as fast as it grew.

You should start charging for your dog's weeding services. (Pay up or he'll return it tomorrow! LOL!)


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RE: Tradescantia navicularis

Afternoon, Purple.
You know, I don't know which pics I meant..lol..I'm sure the answer is up above...well, just post every plant pic you have..lol..

I clicked on, 'this is the front', 'this is the back,' and 'veggie patch.' My computer clicks, but doesn't open. Wonder why??? Darn, I wanted to see your gardens.
Think it's time to change settings.

Ants! They're everywhere. They're really bad here. I am not afarid of ants, 'like spiders,' but when they're in large groups, they're creepy. And who wants ants in their house???

What color is your D. marginata? Aren't they beautiful? I potted three different colors together. Green w/red edge, pink/white/green, and deep red.

Do you have the plant book, The House Plant Expert?
On page 130, the display marginata leaves in three colors. The third, called D. marginata Colorama is one I've always wanted. Either 2009 or 10, I found a colorama on Ebay, so of course I bought it. lol. It's red, but nothing like the pic in the book.

Several years ago, I found an almost, completely red leaf marginata at a pet store, in the fish department. It was small but rooted. I added the red with the other two colors, but don't know if it's still alive. Because of our dreary, sunless winters, leave usually revert to green.
And I messed up the Colorama bought on Ebay..It was completely rootbound. Because I was working in the garden, and hauling house plants outside, I left it unattended..The soil dried way too much..90% of its leaves dropped. My fault. The room is hot and very sunny.
I also found another Dracaena, 'green' with short leaves. Haven't found its species, but it is related to D. marginata.

What size and material is your marginata in? Sounds gigantic and heavy..lol..Good luck hauling it indoors..Buy a dolly..they come in handy..'except when carrying up and down stairs.'
I purchased one at HD for 19.99 a few years ago. It's stronger than it looks..They have larger and better quality dolly's, but this one does the job. So far..lol

Sorry about your Rubber Tree..it too was old. I hate losing plants.

Your lattice is a good idea. Bet it looked great, especially when the MG's flowered. Did you sow different colored flowers or the same?

Moonflower is beautiful, it glows at night. Ever try Moonflower?
A few years I sowed red, Moonflower and light blue MG's..So patriotic, lol.
Although MG's are hardy, or are now, Moonflower never returns. Both can be grown as house plants, but they get large, spindly in winter, and can attract mites.
Even mini's take a lot of space.

I should go outside and dig Bindweed, but it looks like rain again.
Ironically, as seasons change, Bindweed weekens. New bindweed isn't as green or thick during autumn as it is in summer.
When it can be plucked bare-handed, autumn is approaching, and summer, my favorite season, is one its way out..I dread winter..
Gets worse every year.
Although I love Halloween, Thanksgiving, Christmas and New Year's, I'd pass each holiday if only summer would stay. lol

Yeah, if I ever head south during Fig season, 'what month is fig season?' I'll have to try one. lol. Buy some, then bake Fig-nut bread. Yummy.

I'd love to go on vacation, but it's impossible finding homes for the pets. My older dog Sam weight 172lbs..most people fear him, although he's 12.5 yrs old, and hard of hearing. In his younger days, he was a gentle giant, had the personality of an Irish Wolfhound. lol.

I found a shelter for him one time when we headed to TN, which turned out a disaster. Word got around, so I doubt anyone would board him again. Toni



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RE: Tradescantia navicularis

  • Posted by mfyss w. Ill. (My Page) on
    Fri, Jul 29, 11 at 11:30

Chain plant, Turtle plant, Bolivian Jew-common name for an easily grown hanging plant which has never bloomed for me. The plant has rounded leaves, dark blue green above, and purple below. Does it bloom for anyone? Yale


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RE: Tradescantia navicularis

Hi mfyss. I think your plant might be Callisia repens. If so, then no, I've never gotten any blooms. Would love to see a pic of your plant if you have one.

Toni, here are my 2 Dracaenas. There's a corn plant also, on the little table, but it's hard to see from that angle. The big one I was talking about is in the orange pot with heart-leaf philodendron growing with it. Here's a closeup of the foliage on the big one. There was a cute little anole on it when I went out to take the pic but I scared him away. It's prettier in person, light green center, then a creamy stripe, then bright pink at the edges. It used to have a whole other "level" at the top but it drooped to one side so bad, I had to cut it off to bring it inside about 7 years ago. I was so busy with the in-ground plants that I never rotated the pot that summer. I think it's the "tricolor" one. What do you think? Also, can you believe my Mom found that rocking chair in somebody's trash?! A dog has chewed on the back of one of the "legs." Cound never find any other reason someone wouldn't want it. It's been on my porch for 4 years.

I don't know what the measurements of that pot are, but there are rocks in the bottom to keep it from blowing over. You wouldn't think those "airy" tops would catch enough air to do that but they do. The soil is mulch mixed with composted manure and yard dirt. I repotted all of the pots in the pic (except the begonia with red flowers my son gave me for Mother's Day) with that same mix. The 2 sans have mostly mulch and they must really like it. For the first time in years, these plants are each making several pups. Even the last vestiges of a Dieffenbachia I've had for over 30 years has rebounded. That parlor palm has the darkest green leaves ever in the around-18-years that I've had it.

In front of that is a baby (about 6 years old) that I got for $1 as an annual, with a cutting of the philo that I put in the pot last week. Finally my Mom believes me those "spikes" are baby trees. This "baby" is more ordinary - dark green leaves with deep burgundy edges.

The deep red plant you described sounds really pretty.

In my last post with the pics of the yards, I set the links to open in a new window. Your browser settings are probably set to disallow that. Here's that paragraph again with regular links:

I know what you mean about digging up grass to plant flowers and veggies! Everywhere I go, I do that. Here is one place I lived. Then I moved and did this to the front and this to the back. All of those areas were nothing but grass when I started. Those were in OH. This year (in AL), I've added and am still working on the shape of this in the front and this is the back of it. And I added this veggie patch. Those were all grass, too. Over the past few years, we've turned most of my Mom's front yard into a flower bed, and added a nice area in the back by her swing.

I don't even remember after all these years which "real" MG's Mom & I grew that first year, before the bindweed showed up. Prob heavenly blue, though. I love any MG's, even the purple weed ones here - which you can see all over the fence in the pic above of front porch. Better looking than a naked CL fence, IMHO. I've tried growing mandevillea/dipladenia vines in the house over the winter before and what a mess! If I were to do it again, I would defoliate them almost completely first. MG's & moonvines are so easy & cheap from seed, I wouldn't bother in the house.

Figs come ripe in July. Like a flood. It's insane & delicious! I was too busy the first few years I lived here so I've eaten more figs this past month than the whole rest of my life combined. Including when we would visit relatives here when I was a kid and eat fig jam for breakfast every morning. I don't miss the long winters up there in zone 5 at all! It feels like summer to me starting in Feb and through Dec it's warm enough to me to open windows most days. So winter is only about 2 months.

That's sweet how you love your dogs. What kind of dog is Sam? I'm not a dog-owner type but I've always been around people who have big dogs, bull mastiff, irish setter, and my BF has a great dane that's living in my yard this summer. I don't know what he weighs but it's definitely way more than me. If he runs by, the ground shakes. Every time I go to the little store across the way people ask me about my "mini horse." He's a big softie but I don't tell anyone that. Hahaha! I tell them he only bites on command. But for real, I give him all kinds of yummy treats and I have no doubts he'd die trying to defend us. I've forgot and left the gate open a few times and he never leaves. I park in the back yard and when I open the gate to move the car, he won't go in the front unless he is invited. ...which brings me back to the big Dracaena pot. If my BF wants his dog to come in the house when it gets cold, he'll have to pay the price of getting that pot de-ant-ed and brought in. LOL!


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RE: Tradescantia navicularis

  • Posted by mfyss w. Ill. (My Page) on
    Sat, Jul 30, 11 at 10:41

A photo of Callisia repens leaves. Yale

Here is a link that might be useful: C. repens


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RE: Tradescantia navicularis

Yale..I've never seen that particular Callisia, but it's very pretty.
Although Callisias can burn in direct sun, is yours getting enough light?
Another possibility is, are you pinching or pruning tips? If you are, it's probable you're clipping off flower buds without realizing it.

Hey Purple! The pics opened..Your gardens are lovely. I see you feel the same as I..rid the grass, pot flowers and veggies. lol.

Yes, your Dracaean with pink is D. marginata 'tricolor.' Very nice. Green, white and pink..Tri equals three plus, colors. lol.

People toss out some nice stuff. I don't like going through trash, lol, but we found a gorgeous plant shelf someone discarded. They installed it backwards, so when it was standing, it fell frontwards. lol. We put it together, and it's very sturdy. It's a corner shelf, but works fine. Fits fine in a corner between west and north windows.

Your chair looks antique..Is it? It's very nice. Hey, as long as you don't fall on your butt, lol, it was a great idea bringing it home.

During autumn, I like to roam the alleys for plant pots and tossed plants. Most people aren't aware certain plants can be over-wintered as house plants, so they set them in the alley.
But you have to be fast..Last wk I through out two bird cages..Not an hour went by before they were gone. lol.

Oh, Sam is an English Mastiff..my old man..We love him dearly, but he's outlived the average age which is 7-yrs. He's 12.5 years.
Yes, I love dogs, cats and birds. Our cat was 17 before he went to kitty heaven, but because I have Cockatiels, I wouldn't dare get another cat..Halloween was great with the birds, although when I left the house, the birds went in their cages. It was funny when one would land on his head..He'd look at me, an innocent look. lol. Sometimes, his paw went up, but stop in mid-air. lol. But for the time, no cats.

Danes are huge dogs, too..Great idea, continue telling people he'll bite on command..one never knows.
What's his color? Danes need a lot of exorcise, so if he comes in your house this winter, make your b/f takes him for daily walks or runs. Otherwise your plants will look like our back yard after last weeks storm. lol.

I don't blame you not missing winters. lol..I do admit, snow during Christmas is beautiful--a postcard scene. But, I can learn to live without, instead watch DVD's of snow. lol.
The only problem I would have living in a warm climate is 'SPIDERS.' I detest and fear spiders. They're big here, I can imainge their size in warm climates. lol.
I hose, rehose, and re-rehose before bringing plants indoors, still, ever so often, a thick-bodied spiders is in the soil. I run, lol.

My plants from Thailand arrived yesterday. Because of the economy, the mail is slow. I finally got one Philodendron I've wanted for years..darn, can't think of its name, lol.
It has very narrow, green leaves..May be P. elegans, but would have to check. Two Aglaonemas and one Hoya.

Aside from two other plants, a Begonia and Dracaena, that's it for this year..I know I say this all the time, but I have run out of room, so unless something is sold, tossed or dies, this is it. lol..I mean it this time. lol.

Well, your plants and gardens are beautiful. You have so much room, lucky you..Have a great wkend, Toni


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RE: Tradescantia navicularis

Here's what the plant that started this post looks like a few days ago. This is 1 of 2 cuttings I was given, to jog the memory. Here is the one at my Mom's house. The soil level in that pot is a little higher, so as her cutting leaned onto the rim, it curved downward and the tip of it has morphed to where it resembles a spider plant baby with aerial roots. Hers is in more shade than mine, hanging in a wishing well under an oak tree. Mine gets sun until about 10:45 am. Are y'all still thinking C. fragrans?

mfyss, I did a search for pics of Callisia repens flowers and only found 2. They are so unremarkable, you may not notice if your plant did make them. I've never noticed them on any of mine over the years.

Thanks for your compliment, Toni. We do like to play in the yard but the grass here isn't really even grass, IMO. It's not pleasant for bare feet, and it doesn't smell good. So, yeah, Jack Nicklaus isn't coming to tee-off and I'd rather have flowers & veggies in as much of the yard as possible. I do very much enjoy having a big yard to wander around in, despite the mowing. No matter what time of day I feel like getting out for a bit, some part is always shady. It's a dumpy old house in a dumpy old neighborhood but the people are friendly and nobody cares what I plant or where I plant it.

I don't go through trash, either (unless I'm moving and desperate for boxes, I admit to looking in dumpsters a few times.) But, like you said, sometimes there's something at the curb that is obviously discarded that I want. All I know about that repurposed chair is that it's more than 4 years old. It's the real deal, though, solid bent wood, so it must be at least pre-80's, from back when we still made stuff out of real materials here.

Sam sounds sweet. That great dane gets all excited and does laps around the yard a few times a day. When I said he could come in this winter, I just meant at night when it's really cold. He'll be going back out at 7 am for the day. It's almost always sunny here, even in winter. Even if it gets into the teens at night, it's usually at least 40 during the days. He's got black fur, so a sunny spot will warm him right up.


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RE: Tradescantia navicularis

I still maintain this is Callisia fragrans & I believe it gets more maroon/burgundy w/ more light. If I recall correctly, the maroon tends to stay around the center of the rosette, rather than down the leaves to their tips.

Sorry to insist, but the cutting & its Mama pix you showed look exactly like my former Callisia fragrans & not much like the pix Yale has posted (of succulent plants w/much shorter, darker tighter packed leaves).

I don't think that's a lighting difference, I think those are completely different plants.

PS,

Hey Purple, did you get the little EM I sent you through the GW facility? I can't tell but wanted to say thanks about that comment you made recently in my defense.


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RE: Tradescantia navicularis

You're right, the tips of the leaves are staying green. And mine is more colorful vs. my Mom's in more shade. If I didn't want "insisting," I wouldn't have asked again. Thanks for the response.

Yale's plant is C. repens, yes? He/she kind of started a sidebar discussion, wondering if that plant makes flowers, but I don't mind. This has been a long, strange conv.

I didn't get the email but you're welcome. I know what you're referring to and I said what I thought, like usual. Hahaha!


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RE: Tradescantia navicularis

Hey Purple...Yep, definately, C. fragrans or Basket Plant.
Purple, whenever in doubt, check desert-tropicals.com and Daves Garden. Don't know if it's Daves Garden or Gardens.

Purple,, wait until your Callisia grows extra large..You'll have more shoots than you'll know what to do. lol. Yep, they grow like spiders...a long shoot, and leaves..when they break and fall in soil, they root.
You don't have to do anything other than water..they're invasive indoors..lol.

About the chair, I was thinking way before the 80's. lol.

You mean a product made in USA?? Lord, how old would that be? lol.
Ever watch movies made in the 60's? Plastic was the 'in' thing. lol.

Oh well, maybe I'm living in the wrong era, but I like real wood. Wish we could afford antiques..lol..

Purple, do you want your Callisia to have a purple hue? Have you ever seen Variegated Purple Heart/Setcreasea? I think you'd like it.
I have one, but it was a long stem, kept tipping over. I cut into sections, and rooted..When the roots are long enough, they're going back in the pot with mom.
Purple Heart grow tiny purple/white flowers throughout the year. There's purple and variegated PH's.. Toni


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RE: Tradescantia navicularis

Well I'm pretty excited to see if either of these babies will make a lovely flower! And yes, I love the way the leaves are turning purple.

I would definitely like variegated purple heart. I did a google and saw plants striped with pink & purple. Beautiful! I just can't get enough purple (and pink) leaves.

I used to work in a furniture store. You're right about real wood, it's pretty much a thing of the past except for the rich. There are only a handfull of companies making real wood furniture in the US and the cost of these pieces is out of the price range of most people.


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RE: Tradescantia navicularis

Purple, if you don't mind waiting, as soon as my variegated Purple Heart grows larger, I can send cuttings for postage.

I also have standard Purple Heart, and another, 'can't think of its name,' (Not Rhoeo) light purple leaves and a fuzzy version, too. LOL.

I root these plants in water...days later roots form. In fact, the variegated PH is ready to be potted with mom. I'm sooo excited, but should have taken cuttings last year instead of waiting.

Today, I received a purple leaf Euphorbia 'spurge' from Almost Eden Plants and a variegated Aloe. lol

I can cry when I think about this. I was given a 1953 Ethan Allen dining room table and 4 chairs 21 years ago. The chairs were gorgoues...flower and leaf drawings with gold trim were done articulately. Last summer, while doing major cleaning, I had to place the set in the garage for space. Someone came by thinking it was set outside for them to take, and took them. I considered calling the police, but didn't. I loved that set..the best pieces of furniture I have or will ever have.

Hmm, a plant w/pink leaves? There are some Hoyas, H. carnosa variegata, etc, that have pink mixed w/green and white. F. 'Rubber Tree variegata' has pink.

There's probably more but I'd have to think it over. Toni


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RE: Tradescantia navicularis

What a nice offer. I would love to have the cutting. Sending good grow vibes to it!

I hope I never cross the line of ordering plants from catalogs or internet. Where oh where would I draw the line? I've been known to spend the day driving around, as far as 2 hours away to look for cool plants, when I lived in OH. I haven't heard of any place near me with unusual plants... yet.

Wow bummer about your dining set. That's incredible! The garage is completely different than at the curb next to the dumpster.

Coleus, alternantheras, ti plant, Hypoestes, Cordyline, are plants with pink leaves I'd like to have (more of, or again.)

I google'd for pink hoyas and saw some beautiful plants, no doubt! Good suggestion.


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RE: Tradescantia navicularis

Purple, I should be going to the PO next week. Unless it goes back in the high 90's-100's, there shouldn't be any problems. If you'd like the standard Purple Heart and other two purples I mentioned now, and wait for the variegated Purple Heart, it's up to you. Or if you'd prefer all the same time, we can wait.

Variegated Purple Heart grows at a slower pace than the standard purple.

Ha, if it wasn't for mail ordering I'd probably have 30 plants, lol. Even before the net, I started getting catalogs in the mail.
We're down to one gh/nursery that sells rarities; their prices are costly. They know they have plants big box stores normally don't, so they get away with it.. If a person wants a plant bad enough, he/she will pay dearly.

It's sad how several family owned business that have been around nearly a century have closed down.

Where do you draw the line? When you haven't any windows or floor space left, however, that still leaves you w/hanging plants, lol. When you run out of ceiling space, too, it's time to quit.

If clutter upsets you, you'll quit.
I really haven't been looking online, but that leaves grocery stores. Every so often they have something unusual.

Our dumpsters are out back..When something is set outside, 15-20 mins later, 'these ppl must have radar' because it's hauled away.
The garage door is lined up with the dumpster.

During spring, do you ever check out garden centers? Are Spikes sold there? Spikes are Cordylines, Cordylines are related to Dracaenas...they can be grown as house plants.
Besides green Spikes, there's also purple and variegated. Variegated is white, green, and 'pink.' I didn't see any thing year, but seems most ppl buy the same annuals year after year..most have the exact, same perrenials, too..if a plant doesn't sell well, it's discontinued.

Your in a perfect location for Hoyas. I have one Hoya the seller called red leaf..In strong light, its leaves are dark red, but by mid-winter, there's only a hint of red. Living where you do, this type would probably remain red year round, and variegated Hoyas would keep colors other than green.

Oh yeah, did you ever see the Coleus called, Party Time? It has quite a bit of pink. Wish I had kept cuttings, because it's one of the prettiest Coleus around.

I've given up on Ti's and Hypoestes. Because humidity decreases and days are more gray than not, neither do well, and both are Mite magnets. There are some gorgeous Ti's around the globe though, with various colors. One Ebay seller has a huge number of Ti colors. Toni



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RE: Tradescantia navicularis

Hey, Toni. Thanks again for your generous offer but it's still getting up around 100 every day here. I would hate for a cutting to burn up. Hopefully it WILL eventually cool off... whew! Strangely enough, party time Coleus is one of the ones I did find this year. Sounds like a perfect candidate to return the cutting favor! A quick google left me unsure which is the real party time, but there seemed to be 2 that comprised most of the pictures, and I have both, would be happy to send both.

There are only 3 places around here that sell plants if u include walmart, so that makes my wallet happy but I would love to have the option to exercise will power (which I don't have and wouldn't do BUT having the option would be nice.) I used to have shop lights and shelves in my basement but luckily they don't have basements here. But I am already considering furniture moves to bring in many more plants this year. My honey will just LOVE moving that stuff for me and putting up all the hooks I'll soon be asking for. If he knew people buy plants on ebay he would be losing sleep from worry. LOL! He likes the plants but is much more impressed when I come inside with a handfull of tomatoes, peppers, or a watermelon rather than pics of how "well this plant is growing."

Can't believe I forgot to take pics of the "mama" plant I got the cuttings from that started this discussion. I was given another cutting this weekend, though. Here's pics:
1
2
3
4
There's aerial roots and a new shoot coming out of it that kind of looks like asparagus. Even if it never makes a flower, I'm loving it. Will be cool to watch this one turn purple, too.


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RE: Callisia fragrans

Missed another opportunity to take a pic of the mama plant last weekend. Oops! Here's the cutting that started this discussion. It's a mama now, with the original part at the right edge, finger pointing to baby. Cool! This is the same pot as the "tahitian bridal veil" discussion, if you're following both discussions and think they look familiar.


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RE: Tradescantia navicularis

Purple, do you mean Party Time Amaranthus instead of Coleus?

Maybe you can answer a question. I normally plant Coleus outdoors, north side of house, in the ground.
For years, I've seen Super-Large-Leaf Coleus, but they were always over-priced. This spring, they were on sale, so I bought three.

Have you ever seen this species of Coleus?
That's not my question, lol

My question is, if you've grown this type in the garden, did you ever take cuttings? And if you did, where did you cut on the plant?

Smaller species produces several side shoots, so it's just a matter of clipping, but this type doesn't prodoce many if any shoots.

Should I cut from the main trunk? It's still too early to 'destroy' Coleus in the garden, on the other hand, they're very cold-sensitive...one freeze and they're history.

Your Callisia has really grown. This summer, mine stayed indoors, in a west window. It has some purple hue, but not nearly as much as when summered outdoors. What a difference!

BTW, have you noticed the price of Callisia? It's gone way up. Thankfully, I have enough to last five life-times, lol. It grows like a weed.
So, keep yours in good health..which it is...Toni


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RE: Tradescantia navicularis

Hey, Toni. Hope u had a great weekend!

Purple, do you mean Party Time Amaranthus instead of Coleus? I might but I don't think so. LOL! I was answering your question, Oh yeah, did you ever see the Coleus called, Party Time? . When you asked that, I googled to see what party time looks like, and thought it looked just like one of the coleus I have. What do you think?

Super-Large-Leaf Coleus Is that the name of the plant or just a description? I usually use the "best" part (main stem) for a cutting but when it's frost time, I cut as many stems as I have room for and bring them in, in bottles of water. You know, I've found that removing the leaves from the main stem seems to be a quicker way to encourage side shoots on coleus (vs. pinching the growth tip.) I'm usually peeing-in-my-pants anxious in the spring for new coleus to make more stems so I can cut them up and spread them all over the yard. I started a coleus discussion on the foliage plants forum for folks to share their pics. Would love to see some of your pics on it!

The Callisia does grow fast. Just a lovely and pleasant plant!

My name is Tiffany, btw. I've always been paranoid about creeps on the WWW but now that my man and his giant horse-dog have moved into my life and my house, I don't worry so much about anonymous stalkers or WWW creeps. I don't think even the most bored or dedicated creep would still be reading this discussion anyway. LMAO! I would have moved and started all over AGAIN, but luckily his house doesn't have a fenced yard or central air, so we're all more comfortable here, and I'm no longer "an old maid." Do people even still say that anymore? I no longer regret any of the dumb moves I've made or troubles I've been through since changing any of that would have led me on a path that might not have included him. He's worth it. I'm about to start babbling about how he's done more to help my gardening efforts in a few scattered weekend days than I have been able to do alone in years, so I will stop myself.

I think this will be the last week of 90+ temps here, so I was starting to think about getting into some swapping like we had mentioned before. Here's a link to my pic collection. If you're still into it, please let me know what plants I have that are missing from your collection and we'll see if we can enable each other into more crowded houses this winter. Hahaha! I know you have many plants that I don't. My last 3 moves (in the last 5 years) had really been devastating to my plant collection. Luckily I just gave most of them away, but some were just killed in various ways. The offer was made a while back, so if there's any reason you can't right now, that's perfectly understandable.


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