Philodendron hederaceum. :)

philodendron.

If the petiole (the mini stem that connects the leaf to the main stem) is smooth it's likely the plant is a philodendron, if it's kind of "D" shaped with a small groove running down the length it is a Epipremnum (pothos).

Definately a Philodendron. One way to tell is the way the tip of the petiole leaf is shaped.

Hi Danny. How ya doin'?

Asleep, what happened to the name, P. scandens oxycardium? Was the name changed again? Toni

LOL 'fraid so Toni,..

and I was so used to calling it by the old name too. :/

Asleep. lol.

Some names were selected in the 1600's, possibly sooner. I understand through study, 'x' plant might have been named in error..
But, renamed plants, especially around 1980's should have been classified correctly.

Same with holidays. So many dates have been changed. Presidents' birthdays, etc.
During school days, we were taught 'x' president was born and died on 'x' dates.

Schools were closed on 'x' dates.

In the 80's, The Board of Education decided children were getting too much time off, so they came up with President's Day, 2/18..To celebrate two presidents. Washington 2/22, and Lincoln, 2/12.
After 10 or so years, schools are again celebrating both presidents, which means, two days out of school in Feb!! WTH?

No wonder kids are confused. lol.

Hi Toni, Things are good. Glad to see you haven't completely imploded.

The problem is because, at least with aroids and I would guess some other types of plants as well is that many of them are so variable that specimens have been collected and identified and then years later it's been realized that "X" specimen is the same species as "Y" specimen or that one type specimen that was collected turned out to be a juvenile plant and the mature plants have a very different appearance like epipremnum aureum or monstera deliciosa.

There's also problems using expressions like " Epipremnum (pothos)". Pothos is a genus in its own right and has about 50 species. They're aroids but not Epipremnum. It does become confused.

Philodendron micans is also lumped in with philodendron hederaceum now. So it's been hederaceum all along,eh?

How about that??

I vote Philo on this. Pothos doesn't have cataphylls, BTW.

Morning All,

Danny. You wrote, 'glad to see you haven't completely imploded.'
Which definition are you referring to, and why? lol

I understand, but when a study is done, do scientiest not work with several of the same species? From babies to adults/morphs?

Via books and online sites, inspite of date, most likely, a Pothos is called a Pothos and a Phildendron is called a Philodendron. lol.
There are exceptions online.

Example: Ebay sellers list Philos and Pothos as they see them. Even when wrong. The new gardener who buys 'X' plant believes he/she has plant, seller ID'd.

Except for new cultivars, I believe most who have been gardening for years can ID older specimens. Right? :)

Will these produce offshoots?

For the most part,all of the plants energy is going toward the end of the vine where it's last leaf will give rise to a new node followed by a newer leaf still. If the growth point is cut off,the next node behind it will take over and all the energy will be concentrated there and that will become the new growth point. So effectively if you have a vine with enough nodes on it(like the cutting in the photo above)to count back to 3 or 4 of them and cut there,the newly separated part can then be rooted in water or moist soil,perlite,or whatever,..heck,..alot of people just dib a hole in next to the original plant and pop the cutting in right there to give it a fuller appearance.

Sheesh....I don't know if that's making any sense. LOL

Philodendron Scandens - or that's what I call it!

Double post - sorry!

This post was edited by StewartsJon on Tue, Jul 2, 13 at 4:28

As Asleep says, if you snip the leader it will grow a new one but it it may or may not grow more then one new branch stems, likely not but sometimes they do. If you want a fuller looking plant, let the vines grow a foot or two and cut them halfway down the length and root the cut off back into the pot and keep doing that until it's as full as you want. Find yourself a few small bamboo sticks or something else to create a trellis and poke them into the soil and let it climb.

Toni asked; "I understand, but when a study is done, do scientist not work with several of the same species? From babies to adults/morphs? "

Now maybe but not always. A few hundred years ago, many of the naturalists that identified many of these common plants often were not the specialist we see doing field studies today. Some of them were just younger sons of rich guys looking for something to do with themselves since their older brothers were going to inherit everything and leave them very little so they had to go out and make their own way. Many of them were very well educated and choose or were placed on various ships sailing around the world, some of them recording the things they had seen. Some of them just collected stuff and sent it back home and others took to actually studying the stuff they picked up.

So what happens is that rich kid "A" somehow ends up on the east coast of South America, is lucky enough to not get malaria or some other bug that kills them and grabs Philodendron "X" off the trunk of a tree, brings it home with him back to England and ID's it as Philodendron "X". Then a few years later, rich kid "B" comes along on a different ship to the same coast and through similar twists of fortune snatches up the same type of plant off a tree and carries it back across the ocean home to France, names his "discovery Philodendron "Y" unaware that it has been studied before. So you end up with one ID going to Kew Gardens in London as one official discovery and the other going the the Jarden De Plantes in Paris also as the official discovery.

Now lets say that in England, Philo. "X" doesn't really appeal to the local folks so no-one really pays much attention to it and it more or less sits in it's pot for the next 60, 70 years growing to the top of the greenhouse minding it own business but across the channel it finds itself an object of fancy to the locals and the minions at botanic gardens in Paris decide to take cuttings and sell them off. It becomes the toast of the town as Philo. "Y" for the next hundred years. Along comes someone who has studied Philo. "X" over at Kew for a bunch of years while everyone else was ignoring it and maybe even floated across the Atlantic to collect another crate full of them and has observed how they change from juvenile to mature forms as they climb up the trees. This person then, for some reason travels over the Paris and finds himself in the Jarden De Plantes and sees this very familiar plant but it's call Philo "Y" rather than Philo. "X".

Problem is, that hundreds if not thousands of people know this plant as Philo. "Y" but according to the rules of botanical nomenclature, The first ID is the true ID so this third person informs the bigwigs of the plants world so they can change the tag on the pots and add a note to their records. Now the plant has two names, One true and one false. The plant scientists change their use to the new name Philo. "X" and the common folks keep using the common name Philo. "Y" because no-one tells them not to.

Now, a bunch of years later, a forth person come along and realizes that Philo "X" isn't even a philodendron but because new research proves that it is a monstera. so they re-label it and does their best to spread the word of the new classification. You can begin to see how things become confused over the years.

Without the internet these things took decades or longer for knowledge to spread. Add to that the thousands of plants that have had this same or similar story along with the stubborn use of common names by non-scientists who grow the plants at home, these miss-identification are not going to go away anytime soon.

This is a simplified example, I'm sure it isn't the only way it could happen.

Danny

This post was edited by dellis326 on Mon, Jul 1, 13 at 9:04

I like a trellis for these also. When the reach the top, guide them back down, around, easy to have a "full look" without cutting anything. Although when the tip is removed, the vine has no choice but to make one or more side shoots.

Other example using oak branches as supports, 5 gallon bucket.

Danny, that's very true, in the past. Although, to name a plant you must publish taxonomic data in a recognised journal. Those were well known even though distribution was slow and new findings/studies weren't quickly available. There is a convention though, that what's agreed/accepted by taxonomists (peer review) is recorded at Kew Gardens, which is the ultimate authority. Of course these days with the internet, Kew Gardens updates their data base daily and you can find out straight away what an accepted name is. That's not to say they won't receive something the next day which requires them to change it again. The study of plants (and anything else) is ongoing and new information is becoming available all the time.

I like the pics of them growing up trellises, in Europe the specimen versions are sold grown up mosspoles, or occasionally up wire frames.

In my experience the ones grown up wire frames perform far better. Very odd.

StewartsJon; The natural habit for these plants is to grow up, not as a trailing plant so they are more robust climbing then hanging down.

Tropic; Yeah now it must be much easier but two or three hundred years ago things moved much slower and on top of that, these changes had to wait until someone was actually interested in studying a particular species, well I guess that's still the case but in the end it's just a numbers game, sooner or later each will find it's place on their family trees.

I'm going to do some outside garden work, but Danny, I love your x and y story. You're too funny...and correct, of course.

I hope everyone has a safe and happy 4th..hugs, Toi