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Ficus lyrata problem

Posted by keltic_pickle (My Page) on
Sat, Jul 5, 08 at 18:40

I bought a ficus lyrata about a month ago. It is sitting right by a window that gets lots of sun in the morning, and good indirect light the rest of the day. It has been dropping leaves quite consistently and at this rate will be totally bare within another month. The leaves just turn yellow and crispy and fall off (or come off easily in my hand).

I've heard these plants are sensitive to changes in environment. Is it possible that it is still adjusting to the move from the nursery to my apartment? Should I just wait this out? I'm afraid it's going to lose all of its leaves.


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: Ficus lyrata problem

  • Posted by tapla z5b-6a MI (My Page) on
    Sat, Jul 5, 08 at 20:49

How often are you watering it? Are you allowing the soil to dry down considerably before watering again? Did you fertilize it when you brought it home? With what and what strength if a yes.

Like all Ficus - they're not sensitive to CHANGES, per se, but they are sensitive to cultural changes (usually light and temperature) that go from what they are used to, to something less favorable.

Al


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RE: Ficus lyrata problem

keltic pickle, the condition you describe suggests inadequate watering. Observe carefully the lowest leaf on each stalk and compare it with the leaves immediately above it. Look for any hint of yellowing and increase the amount of water you apply without changing anything else.
The objective is to stop the yellowing in its tracks. The all-green leaves must remain so because, after all, a fiddle leaf plant without its full complement of leaves is comparable to the Andre Rieu Orchestra with its strings section missing a fiddle or two.
You might not be able to save all the leaves but you will minimise the loss.


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RE: Ficus lyrata problem

  • Posted by tapla z5b-6a MI (My Page) on
    Sun, Jul 6, 08 at 10:23

From observation, I think the 5 most common causes of defoliation (including partial defoliation/shedding) in Ficus (and several other genera) species in order of likelihood are:
1) A decrease in light levels
2) Over-watering
3) Nitrogen deficiency
4) Under-watering
5) Sudden chill

I think you might be able to reverse the positions of 1 & 2 in many cases because people often tend to over-nurture/over-water new plants. Over and under-watering cause the same drought response, but I put under-watering 4th because the plant tends to remain very tolerant of dry conditions before defoliation as a drought response.

Al


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RE: Ficus lyrata problem

I have been letting it dry out completely between waterings. Using a moisture meter to help know when it is completely dry.

So I am getting varying opinions on whether I am under watering or over watering... What to do?


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RE: Ficus lyrata problem

  • Posted by tapla z5b-6a MI (My Page) on
    Sun, Jul 6, 08 at 14:50

Well - you KNOW you shouldn't let the soil dry completely, and you can't keep it soggy. Water when the soil at the drain hole first appears dry to the touch. You can determine this by inserting a wick into the drain hole (This is a very effective tool to allow you to water copiously each time you water and still not worry too much about over-watering. Let me know if you need more information.), and only watering when it feels dry right at the point the wick exits the pot.

The inexpensive moisture meters are pretty much of no value. They measure EC (electrical conductivity), which is more nearly a measure of the concentration of fertilizer salts than it is moisture levels. If you doubt what I said, take a reading by inserting the probe into a cup of distilled water. It will read 'DRY'. Add a teaspoon of salt and dissolve - read again, and it will read all the way to the moist side.

Al


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RE: Ficus lyrata problem

Very interesting! Not sure I entirely understand what you mean about the wick. I'll search around to see if I can get a more detailed description, but if you care to elaborate, I would certainly be appreciative. Thanks very much!


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RE: Ficus lyrata problem

  • Posted by tapla z5b-6a MI (My Page) on
    Sun, Jul 6, 08 at 19:29

You can use a wick to drain water from the saturated layer of soil at the bottom of the container. Adding a wick & allowing it to dangle below the container "fools" the water into "thinking" the container is actually deeper than it is. The water moves down the wick in search of the deepest part of the container. When it gets to the bottom of the wick, the water moving down behind it "pushes" it off the wick.

That is the simplified version. If you want the technical explanation, read this.

Al


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RE: Ficus lyrata problem

Lots of good info there - thanks, Al.


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RE: Ficus lyrata problem

I have a follow up question: I have had the same problem with a ficus lyrata I bought - the 5 canes in the pot now only have leaves at the top, though the leaf drop has stopped.

Will the leaves regrow along the stems/canes?


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RE: Ficus lyrata problem

I doubt it, but I'll let Al (Tapla), our resident Ficus maven address this. (Waving, hiya Al).


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RE: Ficus lyrata problem

I don't know whether you go along with the "wick" method of watering, but you are the judge whether you believe the plant has been overwatered.
Given that plants must be watered, and therefore, its the roots that must receive the water, we assume from our watering habit the roots are receiving what water we give it.
The easiest way of telling is by watering so that it exits the bottom of the pot into a holding vessel, usually a saucer, and there let it drain fully before dumping such excess.
To leave it there invites the water that has just been gotten rid of, to re-enter back up to the roots that just got rid of it.

Yellow leaves, usually at bottom, because that's the leaf closst to the problem, is caused from either over or underwatering. But, when it is the lower leaves that are yellowing, and possibly falling off, its due to the light levels not being sufficient. Move it so that it receives the best light available. That speaks for a southern, or western exposure.

If you've been fertilizing, the plant, at this time of season, is probably not using it. Its not growing. The food is being force fed to a plant it cant use.
You would be the judge here also.

Hopefully you don't really mean the plant is allowed to dry down completely. When soil dries out, it shrinks. Sometimes the soil shrinks away from the sides of the pot.
This causes any watering to slide down the sides, to the drainage holes. In the meantime the water doesn't get to where it is intended....the roots. When the water is seen in the saucer, the thought is the plant has been watered when in fact, it hasn't.

Never let a plant's soil dry out completely. Dry down..yes, but use your finger to test whether there is dampness below and if not, water. If there is, let it go another couple days, and test again.
Or use a viable humidity tester which can be bought at any garden center.

It is common for plants to lose some leaves; usually the bottom ones due to a change in environment.
Your heated air is different, your water from the tap, might be quite different that what had been given;
Hopefully you have not given the plant water that is on a softening system. That will cause a plant to have problems most definitely. Water given plants should be allowed to sit overnight, to gain room temperature and not be too cold....as from a tap which can cause it stress.

Usually the cause of dropping leaves is because the air in your home is quite different. Your furnace is on and you problably keep the temperature at about 68º = 72º...or maybe higher. Plants usually like lower temperatures during nighttime ..in the 60º - 65º range.


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RE: Ficus lyrata problem

  • Posted by tapla z5b-6a MI (My Page) on
    Thu, Jan 15, 09 at 17:38

It's a somewhat complicated answer, but YES, you can make them grow there (back-bud).

Trees will back-bud with no help from us when light intensity is high and penetrating to the interior of the tree ('interior' part probably doesn't apply in your case), nutrition is in the adequate to luxury (a real term) range, there is good air movement around the tree, and soil structure is conducive to good root function/metabolism.

If one or more of these requirements is suspect (and on your tree they must be - because of your description) you can still force back-budding by tip-pruning either selectively or over the entire plant. For Ficus, simply remove the growing tip and the last leaf that emerged from each branch you wish to increase branching on. This causes changes in growth regulators/hormones that stimulates latent buds in leaf axils, and above old leaf bundle scars, if the plant was growing robustly at the pruning. The end result is more branching and branches that grow densely instead of overly long.

Al


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RE: Ficus lyrata problem

  • Posted by tapla z5b-6a MI (My Page) on
    Thu, Jan 15, 09 at 18:14

Hi, Pirate Girl. I was too busy typing to see you waving. ;o)

BTW, Xanthoria - I should have mentioned that it's not normal for there to be foliage only @ branch ends on this plant. There is something causing that condition, and the most likely cause is lack of light - being severely undernourished could also cause it, but it's unlikely it's an over/under-watering issue, unless the existing foliage is exhibiting symptoms you didn't mention. Hopefully you'll be able to ID and correct the problem.

Your tree likes a fast soil that doesn't stay soggy, weak doses of a 1:1:1 or 2:1:2 ratio fertilizer, bright light, and temperatures consistently in the 65-80* range. You can allow the plant to dry to the point where the soil first feels completely dry at the drain hole with no ill effects, and you SHOULD allow the planting to dry down considerably between generous waterings.

There are some statements that are simply not true in the above post:

Yellowing leaves low on the plant are not unequivocally water related. Mites and a macronutrient deficiency (particularly N) are both very common causes of yellowing/loss of older leaves.

You cannot "force feed" a plant or make it "eat" too much fertilizer. Plants take what they need and leave the rest. You must, however, be careful about not applying so much fertilizer that it makes it difficult or impossible for the plant to take up water and the nutrients dissolved in it.

The inexpensive moisture meters you buy at plant stores are useless for determining moisture content. They measure electrical conductivity - not moisture. To prove this, dip the probe in a cup of deionized (distilled) water. The meter will read 'DRY'. Dissolve a tsp of salt or fertilizer in the same water and it will read 'WET'. Inexpensive moisture meters are better at reading fertility levels than moisture levels.

I hope you've found my offerings at least somewhat helpful. Take care.

Al


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RE: Ficus lyrata problem

So glad to see this discussion. My plant is also dropping leaves but they do not turn yellow. Other leaves are browning on the tips. I was told this plant needs a humidity tray. Could this be causing the problem? Someone else told me to only water a few times a month when really dry. Now I learn here it is not good to dry it out completely. Over/under watering continues to be a conundrum for me so that I don't know in what direction to go. Any help appreciated


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RE: Ficus lyrata problem

  • Posted by tapla z5b-6a MI (My Page) on
    Thu, Oct 15, 09 at 15:16

"I was told this plant needs a humidity tray. Could this be causing the problem?" No it couldn't. From a physiological perspective, we can reach a little and say a humidity tray may be marginally helpful for plants that are suffering a drought response due to a high level of salts in the soil or from either under or over-watering. If you're doing things right during periods of low humidity (keeping fertility/salts levels low and watering correctly), humidity trays are not of much value. They CAN help a little, to slow transpirational loss, but if a humidity tray is required to keep a plant hydrated, the problems are certainly more serious than just low humidity.

I have to leave now, but I'll stop back with some comments about watering and soil, and how several cultural factors are related to soil moisture and plant vitality.

Al


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RE: Ficus lyrata problem

Thanks Al,

And could you also mention whether I should, then, get rid of the tray?

I have also been told two things about cleaning the leaves of dust - to do so, and then, never to spray them.

The confusion mounts!

Thanks again,

Sadie


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RE: Ficus lyrata problem

  • Posted by tapla z5b-6a MI (My Page) on
    Fri, Oct 16, 09 at 10:47

It won't hurt, will probably help a very little, if you keep the tray - as long as you use it properly, There should never be a bridge between the water in the tray and the sol in your container that allows the soil to absorb any of the water in the tray.

Dust inhibits the plants ability to photosynthesize and can marginally inhibit respiration, so it's not a good thing. Misting, from a physiological perspective, is much more likely to cause harm than it is to do any good. It's totally unnecessary. You should try to keep leaves clean though, so a monthly trip to the shower (when the plant needs watering) and a high pressure spray (within reason) over the leaf surfaces will help keep them functioning well.

Al


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RE: Ficus lyrata problem

OK, thanks.

The plant is too heavy for me to carry to the shower so I will have to mist or wipe the leaves with a damp cloth. Would that be better?

Sadie


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RE: Ficus lyrata problem

keltic pickle, well? Were you able to save the Ficus lyrata? What thing(s) did you do to save it? I have a personal interest in this sort of thing. Thanks.


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RE: Ficus lyrata problem

I'm not keltic pickle, but mine is not doing well at all! Every day more leaves brown and fall off. I'm afraid I'm going to lose the plant.


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RE: Ficus lyrata problem

  • Posted by tapla z5b-6a MI (My Page) on
    Mon, Oct 19, 09 at 19:07

Sadie - Most problems with Ficus can be traced to too much salt (from fertilizer and irrigation water) in the soil, over-watering, under-watering, or the need for a repot. Going back even further, each of the first three issues usually come full circle to the soil choice/current condition.

Al


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RE: Ficus lyrata problem

The plant now has only 10 leaves left and they don't looks so great as they are thin and browning. I guess this means the plant is lost?


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RE: Ficus lyrata problem

  • Posted by tapla z5b-6a MI (My Page) on
    Thu, Oct 29, 09 at 14:43

Sadie - What have you done, as far as attempting to reverse the decline of your plant?

Al


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RE: Ficus lyrata problem

I tried moving it to the window where it would get a bit more sun. I think that it liked that as it stopped browning as much. I tried giving it a bit more water as I think I may have been under watering. I had already re-potted when I purchased it so it didn't need that.

If I cut what is remaining down completely to just stalks is there any chance it would revive? Otherwise, I'll give it my condolences and bid it farewell.


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RE: Ficus lyrata problem

  • Posted by tapla z5b-6a MI (My Page) on
    Fri, Oct 30, 09 at 14:33

Not offered in a chiding way - I'm speaking like I would when I was trying to help a friend in one of the plant-related clubs I belong to:

When a plant is declining like yours, you need to rule out light issues as the immediate cause, then insects and diseases, though these are more likely able to be traced back to a poor soil. Once you have ruled out those possibilities, you consider adequate nutrition. If you feel nutrition isn't the issue, you can almost be sure that it is a soil-related issue, which was probably covered above.

Decline caused by cultural issues usually doesn't reverse itself without some detective work and effort by the grower to correct the cultural inadequacies. Moving the plant into better light is sort of like putting all your eggs in one basket, hoping it is only a light-related issue. It would be better if you systematically eliminated the possibilities I mentioned previously, which would have probably left us exploring a poor soil, inappropriate watering habits, or a combination of the two as the cause, which is by far the most probable.

I honestly feel that if you had had the opportunity to learn to make and then use a very good soil, that it is unlikely you would be having the difficulties you relate. If you think there is anything I can do to help, or if you have questions, please let me know or ask, and I'll be happy to do what I can.

Al


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RE: Ficus lyrata problem

Jeannie said the following:

"When soil dries out, it shrinks. Sometimes the soil shrinks away from the sides of the pot.
This causes any watering to slide down the sides, to the drainage holes. In the meantime the water doesn't get to where it is intended....the roots. When the water is seen in the saucer, the thought is the plant has been watered when in fact, it hasn't."

...What I do to get around this little problem is to place the pot into a bucket that is slightly larger than the pot and fill it with water right up flush with the soil line. I let it sit long enough that i know that the whole rootball has been soaked. Next i let it drain completely and leave it alone until next watering.


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RE: Ficus lyrata problem

  • Posted by tapla z5b-6a MI (My Page) on
    Fri, Oct 30, 09 at 22:19

Pine bark and peat become hydrophobic (water repellent) when their moisture content reaches around 30%. They feel dry to the touch at around 40-45% moisture content. The key is to water after they feel dry and before they become hydrophobic, eliminating the problem entirely.

If you forget, you can also water twice. I.e., water enough to wet the surface of the soil, then return several minutes later and water again. The initial watering breaks the hydrophobic tendency of the soil at the top. The soil in the center of the pot is probably not as dry as the soil on the top (or plants would have collapsed), so the entire soil mass will absorb water on the second go-round.

Al


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RE: Ficus lyrata problem

Al,

I repotted with soil suggested at the gardening store for this plant.


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RE: Ficus lyrata problem

  • Posted by tapla z5b-6a MI (My Page) on
    Sat, Oct 31, 09 at 11:45

Did you repot (includes removing old soil and root pruning), or pot up?

Al


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RE: Ficus lyrata problem

I think all this is now moot ... for this plant at least as the plant is no longer viable. My other plants are doing well - for a New York City apartment! The Ficus might not be the right fit for these conditions, or maybe I did something wrong. But as I said ... this plant is no longer viable.

Thanks everyone for your suggestions! I appreciate the advice.


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